Vintage Sniper Rifle Picture Thread

[Walter Haas]

Its not about technology. Sniping is about the weaponization of math.

If you shot the Model 1903A4, with crafted match ammo. It could hold its own with any modern rifle of the same caliber.

Technology doesn't mean better, it means easier. For example, take the fancy CNC lathes now. The computer takes the art out of the game.

Take a gander at this lathe. We laugh when we see something like that in a gun shop now. But that lathe has probably done more for rifle/pistol design and inventions then any lathe in history.

That is the lathe used by John Moses Browning, I took the photo at the Browning museum in Logan Utah.

Back to the M1903 Rifles I mentioned. Its strong, reliable, and ACCURATE. This is the action the Army used to build their Mann Devices. A device they issue to ammo suppliers to test the accuracy of their ammo.

It was used in several calibers, '06, 308, 30 cal carbine, 22 Hornet, and as pictured below, 45 ACP.

Never underestimate old rifles or old machinist.

What does a sniper do in war if he will only get one chance, one shot, but if he's not confident of his zero but doesn't have the opportunity to zero his rifle? Does he just take the shot and hope his zero was good?

 

[pmclaine]

What does a sniper do in war if he will only get one chance, one shot, but if he's not confident of his zero but doesn't have the opportunity to zero his rifle? Does he just take the shot and hope his zero was good?

Call in air or arty.

 

[pmclaine]

Someone asked me what the differences were between the M40 and M40 A1 bolt, safety, bolt shroud and area around the safety.
I thought I would drop the pictures on here. Maybe these could help someone else with a build.

Kind Regards,

- Jon

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Great pictures.

I build my rifles off early Remingtons. Two in the safe now, one as a .223 M40 clone, one is an M40/A1/A3/A5ish, and one is at a builder now to be built as a modernized M40.

Love that early bolt handle much better than the modern blocky I beam part.

What is that cut on the lug all about? The modern having it, the early lacking.

Is that the "anti binding" modification I once heard about?

One of the other differences not seen but to be considered.......The bolt lock tab on the safety of the early guns.

If your considering just throwing an early trigger in your late gun you will have to modify the early safety as there was a bar that locked the bolt from opening on the early models.

 

[Longrangeprecision762]

Great pictures.

I build my rifles off early Remingtons. Two in the safe now, one as a .223 M40 clone, one is an M40/A1/A3/A5ish, and one is at a builder now to be built as a modernized M40.

Love that early bolt handle much better than the modern blocky I beam part.

What is that cut on the lug all about? The modern having it, the early lacking.

Is that the "anti binding" modification I once heard about?

One of the other differences not seen but to be considered.......The bolt lock tab on the safety of the early guns.

If your considering just throwing an early trigger in your late gun you will have to modify the early safety as there was a bar that locked the bolt from opening on the early models.

Good morning pmclaine,

I would love to build all of my rifles off of early actions. They are typically good and worn in by the time you get them.

I love your new M40/.223 that is a sharp rifle. I have looked at your posts many times.

The slotted bolt rides on the guide rail of modern actions. Unnecessary if you ask me. It adds another friction surface and can make a new rifle bolt feel gritty.

I took the pictures to illustrate some of the major differences between the two. There was member that was asking about putting an old bolt and trigger in his modern action to get a more authentic look. Good insight on the trigger lock bar as well.

Can’t wait to see your new build.

- Jon

 

[pmclaine]

Good morning pmclaine,

I would love to build all of my rifles off of early actions. They are typically good and worn in by the time you get them.

I love your new M40/.223 that is a sharp rifle. I have looked at your posts many times.

The slotted bolt rides on the guide rail of modern actions. Unnecessary if you ask me. It adds another friction surface and can make a new rifle bolt feel gritty.

I took the pictures to illustrate some of the major differences between the two. There was member that was asking about putting an old bolt and trigger in his modern action to get a more authentic look. Good insight on the trigger lock bar as well.

Can’t wait to see your new build.

- Jon

And good morning to you Jon...appreciate your time in replying.

My new build will be neat. The stock will be my only "part of concern". Otherwise it should be a bombproof build.

 

[sandwarrior]

Someone asked me what the differences were between the M40 and M40 A1 bolt, safety, bolt shroud and area around the safety.
I thought I would drop the pictures on here. Maybe these could help someone else with a build.

Kind Regards,

- Jon

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You need to break these up some so that we can add more than one "like"...jus' sayin' ?

 

[Longrangeprecision762]

You need to break these up some so that we can add more than one "like"...jus' sayin' ?

Nice. Glad you enjoyed them. This summer I plan on doing a lot more hiking around to find some new shooting spots. Should have some good pictures to share.

Love those Winchester .22’s pmclaine.
I have been stopping at small gun/ pawn shops when I see them. Hopefully I can score a rifle or two for the little ones.


- Jon

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Bump to the top

@padom any chance we could make this one a sticky..??

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

For anyone interested, here's another group picture of some replica vintage US semi-auto sniper rifles from 1969- to the mid-1990s era. The bottom two replicas are considered US Army sniper rifles, and top rifle is a Navy 'Product Improved' M21. Its original designatation was 'Physical Security Sniper Rifle" but most folks call it an 'M14 Port Security rifle' as they are often associated with port security/DM type missions.

Top: Replica Navy M14 Physical Security Sniper w/ 1993 dated USN heavy barrel, and the old Bausch & Lomb 10X tactical scope (circa 1990s era). Note: the added-on cheek piece is not 'period correct,' but I added it for ergonomic reasons. In the military, US Navy SEALS and others would simply tape some hard foam to the buttstock with some heavy-duty "100 mph" OD green or perhaps black duct tape. Historically speaking, Approximately 300 were made back in 1989-1990, and according to Peter Senich's' book, they were the "weapon of choice" for US Navy SEALs during 1991's Operation Desert Storm.

Middle: Replica M21 w/ 1983 dated General Dynamics medium weight barrel and ART II 3-9X scope. (1982 to early/mid-1990s era). Historically speaking, it is unclear how many M21s the US Army had in this configuration, but they received 1275 of these scopes in December 1981, so presumably they had around 1200 of these rifles in this configuration (note: more ART II scopes may have been ordered in the early 1980s, but documentation is lacking).

Bottom: Replica XM21 w/ /SAI commercial standard weight NM barrel and AR TEL 3-9X scope (circa 1969 to early 1980s era). Historically speaking, somewhere between 1400 and up to 1600 XM21 rifles were authorized to be built during the Vietnam War, but its unclear exactly how many where made. (Serial # of my scope is 1296, and I have seen serial #s in the upper 13XXs, but they could go into the 14XXs or higher,).

Speaking of scopes and scope mounts, the 3rd picture shows the evolution of the scope mounting system on the M21 type rifles:

Bottom XM21 rifle has a single attachment point and was prone to loosening during use. (I use a black pen to mark the 12 o'clock position on the knobs - so I can see if the screw is starting to back out - got that tip from a former US Army sniper who used an M21 in mid-1980s).

Middle M21 rifle has a two-attachment point system that was also threaded into the clip guide, and was more robust that the original Vietnam era mount.

Top Navy rifle has a three-attachment point Brookfield Precision Tool (BPT) scope mount that also has a threaded screw that rests against the front/top face of the receiver. The 3-point system was a big improvement in rigidity and is commonly used today on M1A mounts.

Lastly, I have a pending XM25 replica that is getting bedded with the unique BPT stock liner. It will have a forest camo McMillan stock, a 1990 dated Leupold M3A 10x scope, a medium weight barrel, and will represent a late 1980s/early 1990s era US Army Special Forces sniper rifle developed at 10th SFG at Ft Devens, MA. It will look similar to the last picture which was taken in February 1991, but without the sound suppressor set-up. Only 250 of the BPT stock liners were made back in the late 1980s, and I have read that only about 200 of the XM25 rifles were built, but documentation is lacking. I'll post a picture of it when it comes back from the builder.

(Note: Some people call fiberglass-stocked Navy precision rifles "M25" rifles, but the Navy never used that nomenclature. The 'M25' designation is more a of US Army term, but the rifles were never officially adopted. The XM25s and M25s were sort-of custom/low-volume rifles for Special Forces, mostly the 10th SFG and possibly some 5th SFG as well - at least to the best of my knowledge.)

Anyhow, these 3 replicas of vintage M14-based sniper rifles show the evolution of this platform from the late 1960s to the mid-1990s era.

@Random Guy you should totally add one of these to your 'Nam era lineup:

Forgotten Rifle of the Vietnam War: The Silent Sniper - The Loadout Room

The Vietnam War produced technology and weaponry we still use today, but not all. Today we are looking at one forgotten Sniper rifle of Vietnam

loadoutroom.com

.458 Integrally suppressed M70

 

[brianf]

im trying to remember the actual weapon

guy i used to train with was a vietnam sniper who was attached to A teams several times

he used a suppressed weapon, wasnt a pistol although maybe a pistol round.. damn memory

anyway they called it a "duck gun" because the NVA would use ducks as security alarms

so as they were infil they take out the ducks

he only had a few picks but the conversation came up when i pointed it out in a pic

 

[roostercogburn98]

Maybe a “silent pistol” using piston rounds?

 

[Mister Ridge]

De Lilse Carbine?

 

[brianf]

Maybe a “silent pistol” using piston rounds?

i dont think so it looked the size of a sten or grease gun almost like a 40mm thump gun...if im remembering

 

[brianf]

De Lilse Carbine?

id say yes with a gun to my head

were they in the inventory

 

[pmclaine]

Hush Puppy.

Smith and Wesson M39 suppressed with ability to lock the slide.

Google it

 

[brianf]

Hush Puppy.

Smith and Wesson M39 suppressed with ability to lock the slide.

Google it

I “think” I remember there was a shoulder stock.

But you do make sense

 

[Mister Ridge]

id say yes with a gun to my head

were they in the inventory

Officially? No idea.

Unofficially? Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[roostercogburn98]

i dont think so it looked the size of a sten or grease gun almost like a 40mm thump gun...if im remembering

Any of these ring a bell

 

[pmclaine]

Stocked Hush Puppy.....see that dual purpose slide lock lever? For locking closed, not so much for open.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

im trying to remember the actual weapon

guy i used to train with was a vietnam sniper who was attached to A teams several times

he used a suppressed weapon, wasnt a pistol although maybe a pistol round.. damn memory

anyway they called it a "duck gun" because the NVA would use ducks as security alarms

so as they were infil they take out the ducks

he only had a few picks but the conversation came up when i pointed it out in a pic

The original 'Hush Puppy' was a Smith and Wesson M39 with a Sionics (I think) or Wer-Bel suppressor.

They actually called it the 'hush puppy' because "Hush Duck" did not sound cool enough. Not making that up.

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hush Puppy.

Smith and Wesson M39 suppressed with ability to lock the slide.

Google it

^^^This.. I should have kept reading.

Sirhr

 

[brianf]

Stocked Hush Puppy.....see that dual purpose slide lock lever? For locking closed, not so much for open.

Could be the winner…then toss in sirh post

 

[S12A]

1943 Ishevsk 91/30 PU

 

[pmclaine]

1943 Ishevsk 91/30 PU
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IE frontline Ukrainian rifle

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

IE frontline Ukrainian rifle

They couldve at least bought some Finnish ones.. Golly LOL..

 

[zfk55sr]

And just a bit more rare than the ZFK55.......... the K31/42 and the K31/43 sniper rifles.

 

[Ledzep]

And just a bit more rare than the ZFK55.......... the K31/42 and the K31/43 sniper rifles.
...

Very cool! I'm kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on a K31/43. I did end up snagging a ZFK55, though. Any chance you guys will be running more of the ZFK-55 weaver/pic rail adapters soon?

 

[sandwarrior]

And just a bit more rare than the ZFK55.......... the K31/42 and the K31/43 sniper rifles.View attachment 7914484
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Did they tune these triggers to the point of the match rifles? When shooting standing, you almost can't even feel the trigger break. K-31's have phenomenal triggers anyways, but the match trigger I have is more like a benchrest setting for weight and smoothness.

 

[zfk55sr]

Ledzep, we'll be making a new run of 100 in about three weeks time.
Thank you sir.
Sandwarrior, trigger pulls on K31s, G11s and the ZFK55's cannot be reduced below original military issue or they will be disqualified from shooting in any Swis sanctioned matches. In Switzerland the 2nd stage minimum pull of a K31 for joining matches is 1300 grams and or 2.9 pounds. First stage is typically around 4 to 5 pounds.
SP

 

[diggler1833]

My No. 4 Mk 1 (T):

Optic is actually an old Kodak Ltd No. 32 Mk1, which isn't correct to my 1945 rifle. This one was probably mismatched before export and certainly has a couple newer wood parts (and king screw), so collector value isn't there. I've got a ton of photos on this rifle, which I use for reference as there seem to be a lot of clones/dishonest fakes that have the "T" on the receiver and "S51" on the buttstock, but are missing the finer Holland and Holland stamps etc...

 

[Mister Ridge]

Not sure what I'm going to do with this. I like the stock and the overall balance is sweet, but it's a bit of a hack job and I don't have much need for a 22-250. Supposedly a Steyr action.

 

[sandwarrior]

Not sure what I'm going to do with this. I like the stock and the overall balance is sweet, but it's a bit of a hack job and I don't have much need for a 22-250. Supposedly a Steyr action.

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It don't look to 'hacky' to me. What twist? What are the quality issues for you? I like the stipled grips.

 

[Mister Ridge]

It don't look to 'hacky' to me. What twist? What are the quality issues for you? I like the stipled grips.

No idea on the twist rate. I still haven't gotten around to get a 22 caliber cleaning rod. Also, I was having trouble getting a scope mounted. The rear ring didn't want to line up quite right but I need to get another set to try before I start to think there's a bigger problem.

Update: tried a different set of rings and that fixed the problem.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

My No. 4 Mk 1 (T):

Optic is actually an old Kodak Ltd No. 32 Mk1, which isn't correct to my 1945 rifle. This one was probably mismatched before export and certainly has a couple newer wood parts (and king screw), so collector value isn't there. I've got a ton of photos on this rifle, which I use for reference as there seem to be a lot of clones/dishonest fakes that have the "T" on the receiver and "S51" on the buttstock, but are missing the finer Holland and Holland stamps etc...

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Do you know what all is done to the Fulton Regulated Enfields? Is it just a specific bedding process for Enfields or..??

 

[S12A]

This ones a clone, wearing a clone scope. I do have an original No32Mk2 scope that will be going on it after its refurbed

 

[sandwarrior]

This ones a clone, wearing a clone scope. I do have an original No32Mk2 scope that will be going on it after its refurbed

What all do you intend to do still? Was it shootable on last Anzac day?

 

[S12A]

it wasn't ready, but maybe next year, i only picked it up from my dealer yesterday, i plan to shoot it in service rifle matches . Should be a lot of fun.

I also have a Lithgow No1Mk3 HT Sniper rifle (verified legit) with the original low mount pattern 1918 scope , which i'm waiting to pick up next week. That will likely take precedence for any ANZAC day activities

 

[API Norway]

 

[jbell]

What an awesome collection!

 

[API Norway]

What an awesome collection!

Thx, first pic is Norwegian NM149, cal 7.61x51
Second mine No4T , test of handload vs old match. Sweet shooting T.
Next is A4 , original used here in Army, but with Alaskan and M84 scope. I prefer Alaskan to shoot with myself.
Table of joy, M40 in .223 , A1 ish with Unertl, still my favorit

 

[RPN]

Looooove the #4.
Great collection.

 

[ZG47A]

Thx, first pic is Norwegian NM149, cal 7.61x51
Second mine No4T , test of handload vs old match. Sweet shooting T.
Next is A4 , original used here in Army, but with Alaskan and M84 scope. I prefer Alaskan to shoot with myself.
Table of joy, M40 in .223 , A1 ish with Unertl, still my favorit

Yes, I positively identified the first three and was waiting for a precise ID on the Remington actioned rifles, given the variety of replicas and rebuilds out there. Very nice collection. Good to see the NM149 in two stock colours. Was that a police versus army thing or evolving fashion?
P.S. How many of your fellow shooters realise that the No. 4 (T) sight mount is made out of cast iron? Good trap for new players!

 

[sandwarrior]

Thx, first pic is Norwegian NM149, cal 7.61x51
Second mine No4T , test of handload vs old match. Sweet shooting T.
Next is A4 , original used here in Army, but with Alaskan and M84 scope. I prefer Alaskan to shoot with myself.
Table of joy, M40 in .223 , A1 ish with Unertl, still my favorit

On the "table of joy" (I'm stealin' that) what is the second rifle down with the black synthetic stock?

 

[API Norway]

Yes, I positively identified the first three and was waiting for a precise ID on the Remington actioned rifles, given the variety of replicas and rebuilds out there. Very nice collection. Good to see the NM149 in two stock colours. Was that a police versus army thing or evolving fashion?
P.S. How many of your fellow shooters realise that the No. 4 (T) sight mount is made out of cast iron? Good trap for new players!

Yes, it is NM149 s evolution, dark stock/frontsight is interrim, and new laminat greenish stock was the last for Army. Missing , is the first , dark and non front sight. That was my serice rifle.

 

[API Norway]

On the "table of joy" (I'm stealin' that) what is the second rifle down with the black synthetic stock?

Its a Rem action, in McMillan Baker Special stock, topped with Leatherwood MPC scope. Kida idea of vintage police rifle.

 

[API Norway]

My son and my grandkid, she was not happy first shot, was not in center, so she shot another round, dead center that one, puts a smile on her face , and me too
Rifle is M40 in 223. Build by Mine Gunsmith friend.

 

[ZG47A]

A determined and successful young lady. Nice to see. I suspect that she has you ‘under the thumb’ and ‘wrapped around her little finger’. Good to see her wearing quality earmuffs. Has she told you what colour Peltor Kidz earmuffs you are going to buy her? Cheers from NZ!

 

[Flint62a1]

The latest addition. Rock Island 03, Malcolm 8x repro. Been wanting to do this for a while.

 

[S12A]

The latest addition. Rock Island 03, Malcolm 8x repro. Been wanting to do this for a while.

How is the malcolm scope?
Rifle looks great!

 

[Flint62a1]

How is the malcolm scope?
Rifle looks great!

Thanks, the optics are really good. The mounts are mushy and 1/3 minute not 1/4 but you can upgrade the mounts, a buddy of mine did so and they are very nice.