Who sells N/F for the price of a vortex including your 2cents? The buy a N/F isnt really a a valid argument is it? Sucks he had issues who knows he could have gotten a bad N/F too. My guess he didnt have the coin to pony up to a N/F the first go around.
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Rifle Scopes Voertex Optics Never Ever Again!!!
- Thread starter FULLDRAW
- Start date
I offered this guy 1000 shipped for this nightforce and by my calc 1000 isn't that much more that 750 or 800 for a vortex
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/optics-sale/223076-re-f-s-nightforce-nxs-3-5-15x56-mil-mil.html
I'm not arguing with you. you have a point with if you don't have the coin, you don't have the coin
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Here's what I gather from this post...
Scope crapped out
Scope crapped out again
Scope crapped out again
Great customer service
Your still jacking with them
The great customer service is cool and all but I like scopes that don't require customer service. For instance, I don't even think Schmidt and bender has customer service.... Their shit don't break for no reason.
I was considering getting a vortex for my shorty blot gun but this post and a few others have changed my mind. 3-12x50 Schmidt it is. I was gonna try to be cheap but eff that!
Scope crapped out
Scope crapped out again
Scope crapped out again
Great customer service
Your still jacking with them
The great customer service is cool and all but I like scopes that don't require customer service. For instance, I don't even think Schmidt and bender has customer service.... Their shit don't break for no reason.
I was considering getting a vortex for my shorty blot gun but this post and a few others have changed my mind. 3-12x50 Schmidt it is. I was gonna try to be cheap but eff that!
Yep I used to go with cheaper scopes like leupold mark 4's and simular. I had never ending tracking problems. I had 3 mark 4's and none of them tracked true.... I sent them back several times with great customer service but the problem would eventually come back. I'm not complaining about leupold, I still think they are great optics for the $! They just weren't the greatest scope for what I was using them for. Maybe now they are I may try another soon.
I then went from a mark 4 to a 5.5-22x56 NF with zero stop! Wow! That sucker tracks like a train... I loved it and would recommend them to everyone. But I had a awesome chance to get my Schmidt and I jumped on it. The glass is better by far in the S&B IMO. It's a hard choice for me now to either get a 3-15 NF or a 3-12 S&B. I can probly find a 3-12 for around $2000 and a NF for $1200.
I was hoping to spend $900 or so on a vortex but its worth the extra $ to me to just get what I know will be a great optic.
I then went from a mark 4 to a 5.5-22x56 NF with zero stop! Wow! That sucker tracks like a train... I loved it and would recommend them to everyone. But I had a awesome chance to get my Schmidt and I jumped on it. The glass is better by far in the S&B IMO. It's a hard choice for me now to either get a 3-15 NF or a 3-12 S&B. I can probly find a 3-12 for around $2000 and a NF for $1200.
I was hoping to spend $900 or so on a vortex but its worth the extra $ to me to just get what I know will be a great optic.
FULLDRAW
So you purchased a relative inexpensive scope and it crapped out on you...BFD, fix it, exchange it, sell it...basically get over it!
You just paid what's commonly called "stupid tax", learn from it.
An old Gunny once told me a good rule to follow is to always put in at least three times the money in a scope that you put into your rifle.
So you purchased a relative inexpensive scope and it crapped out on you...BFD, fix it, exchange it, sell it...basically get over it!
You just paid what's commonly called "stupid tax", learn from it.
An old Gunny once told me a good rule to follow is to always put in at least three times the money in a scope that you put into your rifle.
my hunting partner sent a NXS back to NF for a tracking issue... didnt see it back for 3 months....
sent my razor in after i smashed the turret on concrete... they had it fixed in 3 days...
sent my razor in after i smashed the turret on concrete... they had it fixed in 3 days...
Where do you buy S&B's for $2000? I wanna pick some fruit from that tree.
Haha gotta look around man! There's a 3-12 S&B on eBay right now for $2000 and its only 30 minutes from me. Thinking about grabbing it.
Where can I find a $12,000 scope? Don't want one just never even seen one on the net...... I'm sure there are some, but that's too much of a blanket statement especially for custom rifles.
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Wow! There is a shocker. Bashing leupold in a "Votex is shit thread" cause Leupolds don't track. All mine do and I have had more than a couple. I guess I am doing it wrong.
Could you name me one example, one, of a stellar world class quality product that is made in the Phillipines? I mean besides Vortex? Lemme ask it again in case someone doesn't habla. What do they manufacture in the Phillipines that is famous for it's quality world wide? Every time someone brags about Vortex product quality the people who actually manufacture the scopes laugh their fucking asses off. I already pointed this out in another thread. If they can afford to send out a new scope when someone sends back 2 or 3 scopes till they get it right, then their quality is, as a general rule...shit. Their profit margin is off the fucking charts as well. I have seen better glass on an 80's vintage Tasco. $700, $800, $900 is a bargain for a scope that has Ok glass? It is a false economy. Yeah I know it has all those bells and whistles and no one else can off such great gadgets at that pricepoint: Ever ask yourself why? I know can't live with the answer. I already asked this once and heard crickets. Can anyone show me their hard used Vortwx that is ten years old? I mean hard now, not ten years of hard safe queen duty. Anyone? I have my ear to the rail quite a bit. There are plenty of these things out there that are wore pretty damn well out after 2 years, but they will never talk about it. If someone gets a bad one and keeps getting a bad one, then makes a post about it, they get nailed to a fucking cross. It is cool as hell to bash some manufacturers while others have fucking cult followings. Makes me want to puke.
Could you name me one example, one, of a stellar world class quality product that is made in the Phillipines? I mean besides Vortex? Lemme ask it again in case someone doesn't habla. What do they manufacture in the Phillipines that is famous for it's quality world wide? Every time someone brags about Vortex product quality the people who actually manufacture the scopes laugh their fucking asses off. I already pointed this out in another thread. If they can afford to send out a new scope when someone sends back 2 or 3 scopes till they get it right, then their quality is, as a general rule...shit. Their profit margin is off the fucking charts as well. I have seen better glass on an 80's vintage Tasco. $700, $800, $900 is a bargain for a scope that has Ok glass? It is a false economy. Yeah I know it has all those bells and whistles and no one else can off such great gadgets at that pricepoint: Ever ask yourself why? I know can't live with the answer. I already asked this once and heard crickets. Can anyone show me their hard used Vortwx that is ten years old? I mean hard now, not ten years of hard safe queen duty. Anyone? I have my ear to the rail quite a bit. There are plenty of these things out there that are wore pretty damn well out after 2 years, but they will never talk about it. If someone gets a bad one and keeps getting a bad one, then makes a post about it, they get nailed to a fucking cross. It is cool as hell to bash some manufacturers while others have fucking cult followings. Makes me want to puke.
No body bashed a leupold dude.... Damn calm down. I had bad luck with them tracking true. 1 was a old vari x3 tactical (pre mark 4 with m1 turrets) 2 was a 6.5-20 mark 4 and #3 was a 3.5-10x40 mark 4. All had m1 turrets/tmr reticle. The vari x3 started its life as a duplex reticle but when I sent it in for tracking I had them install the tmr. I wouldn't make all that shit up just to lie to you...
But like I said, I still like them and the last thing I'm doing is bashing leupold. Hell they've had more front line action over seas than probly any other glass maker out there and I don't see a end to that. For $1000 there's not a scope that can compete IMO!
The vortex I can't speak for. But it seems they have several problems....
But like I said, I still like them and the last thing I'm doing is bashing leupold. Hell they've had more front line action over seas than probly any other glass maker out there and I don't see a end to that. For $1000 there's not a scope that can compete IMO!
The vortex I can't speak for. But it seems they have several problems....
I dont own nor have I ever owned a Vortex product, reason-virtually every good comment I've ever read(and there's alot) always has something to the effect of "they have great customer service" in the statement or following the other good points in the statement. This paradigm speaks to me. Having great customer service is not a selling point to me, it tells me its used, quite often, maybe i'm just a fuckhead wierdo and this is just my opinion, just throwing it out there......
I guess this is the way i look at it...... The OP was talking about a PST line of vortex.... If others are going to bring up NF, S&B, or whatever high end 1400 dollar plus scope shouldnt we compare it to the razor line from vortex???.... Ive seen every single scope manufacture have issues regardless if its mine, friends, or the people on here..... Everything ive own is pst vortex with amazing low cost results. Out of the numerous vortex scopes ive owned ive only had one problem and i had the scope back in less than a week. Ill continue to be a vortex customer especially with the amazing resale value.
Also,,, for example.... If two companies have the same average ~% of problems with their product, but one of the companies out sells the other company by about 3 to 1..... Then the company that sells more product will appear to have more problems. Vortex sells a boat load of scopes. Correct me if im wrong please.
Post of the fucking year!!! The Tommy Boy post is a close second.
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Ifwearegoingtostopusingparagraphshereonthehidewemightaswellstopusingspacingaltogether. Seriously, I'm not trying to be the grammer Nazi guy but when your post gives people a headache it time to change your game up.
That being said, regardless of your situation flamming a highly regarded manufacturer with your first post isn't the most classy move. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be pissed, Its just seems like your sole purpose here is to bitch. Maybe a few questions and even some feedback prior to a flamming post would have garnered you some additional sympathy.
Anyway, I'm sorry to here that you are having such a difficult time with your scope. For future reference, although you may have exhausted this option, contacting a company rep here on the hide would have probably solved this situation lickity-split. I have a great pair of Bino's from Vortex that I've fielded for 4 years now and I'm very confident that the company will stand behind them if that should ever be needed.
Again, I'm not trying to pile on but this first thread Flamming doesn't make anyone look good. Hope you get this squared away sooner than later and Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
That being said, regardless of your situation flamming a highly regarded manufacturer with your first post isn't the most classy move. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to be pissed, Its just seems like your sole purpose here is to bitch. Maybe a few questions and even some feedback prior to a flamming post would have garnered you some additional sympathy.
Anyway, I'm sorry to here that you are having such a difficult time with your scope. For future reference, although you may have exhausted this option, contacting a company rep here on the hide would have probably solved this situation lickity-split. I have a great pair of Bino's from Vortex that I've fielded for 4 years now and I'm very confident that the company will stand behind them if that should ever be needed.
Again, I'm not trying to pile on but this first thread Flamming doesn't make anyone look good. Hope you get this squared away sooner than later and Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
God damn do you guys take this shit way too fucking seriously.
I've owned a couple vortex products, they were okay, then I sold them for stuff I liked better. Life goes on.
Here, let me show you my shocked face…
<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo shocked-baby1_zps481d4896.jpg"/></a>
Well, for one, Ferfrans is made in the Phillipines: Full Auto Ferfrans | Tactical Life
Those rifles are pretty impressive.
How about BD medical products? If you have ever used a syringe, catheter and such, it was made by BD.
Or maybe Lenovo?
There… I just named three for you. Happy now?
Now stop bashing other countries with your ignorance and add something substantial to this thread.. like your own quality side by side testing, or your decades of experience with quality optics. Right?
Rock Island Armory is also made in the Philippines. How about the fact that many websites people visit including several well respected vendors here are designed and run from the Philippines. Oh that's right... If it's not made in 'Merica then it's not quality.
He didn't ask what products are made in the Philippines, he asked about stellars world class products. RIA's are made there, and they are good guns, but no one in their right mind would say they are anywhere near as Colt, Springfield or Kimber guns, not to mention Les Baer.
How is it a flame when someone posts what happened to them and what their opinion is?
So now a product has to be "stellar world class" in order to meet with approval? This is the same bullshit every time. The haters of Vortex show up to trash a product at 1/2 the price point of another and compare it to other products that are up to 3-4x the cost then want to argue that it must be cheap because it offers all the features so they must have cut corners somewhere and because they're not made in 'Merica. Those same idiots then want everyone else to justify the product to a NF, S&B, or Leupold Mark 4's which at MSRP are at least double the cost but those same idiots won't compare it to the Razor. Here's a novel idea... How about everyone just goes out and actually shoots what they want for once and if your "stellar world class" Leupold is all that you think it is then it will be apparent to the rest of the world and those of us who pay attention at matches. Of course you'll have to do it from somewhere else other than a bench with a safe queen.
No , not at all.
First, he asked what world class products are made in the Philippines. I think he is still waiting for that answer.
What he is saying is that Vortex is an ok quality scope, but it isn't the best scope in the world, and that it is cheaper for Vortex to send a new one out rather than make it right the first time. Are you saying none of that is true?
People are buying the Vortex because of it's price. They buy because of all the features. How can they expect to get all of the features at a price that other manufacturers, in Japan, the US or Europe, who offer the same features can't sell at the same price as Vortex? They are deluding themselves if they think that it's the same quality scope. I understand it's the natural reaction of anyone to defend their $1000 purchase, but sometimes it is worth looking at something without passion and just with reason.
Now, if everyone thinks that Vortex is the best in the world, then fine. Why get all upset if someone thinks differently? Seriously, why would a person even post in a such a thread? Why do people feel like they have to justify their purchase to the whole world?
For not meaning to bash anyone you did one helluva job.
I will say I have several Vortex PST scopes and a spotter too. They have never lost zero or failed in any way. And one is on a GAP 7WSM that has won or placed in the top five of every match it was used in.
I sold a lower end Vortex (that I got used) to a guy on another forum. I had run out of boxes except for one that had gotten water stained at one time. When it arrived it sat on the guy's front porch for a few days and apparently got damaged. He didn't even contact me. Instead he called Vortex and they replaced the scope with a more expensive model no questions asked. To me, that is CS without equal.
What kind of business model is that? What do they do with all the ones that come back? Throw them away? Sell them as new to someone else?
If they throw them away, it confirms it's cheaper to send a new one than fix it. If they are selling refurbished ones, then that's a whole new story.
Which is it? It has to be one or the other.
The defective scopes are returned to the factory in the Philippines were they are some-times refurbished and then peddled by street-vendors for their actual value.
I don't think anyone who shoots a cheap vortex think that it's as good as a nightforce.
As far as I can tell the people who complain about vortex are the assholes who are never fucking happy. The normal people just sell the scope and get something else.
If this is right then why was there dents in the scope???? Good luck getting a new scope r your money back with any other scope company after U but dents in the scope while mounting it and you don't need two levels to mount a scope FYI
A rifle used by a swat team and a small division of LAPD. Check
Some plastic. Check
Microchips and circuitboards. Check
Do you realize you are making my point for me?
What the fuck did you contribute to this thread? You came in here to give me a pee pee whack. Well when you get time later today, go fuck yourself. I am not bashing other countries, I am bashing some of their products.
I have had decades of experience using quality optics, are you insinuating I haven't?
Sorry Broke. I have had a few Rock Island pistols and had my hands on many more. Shot a TCM the other day at a match. They are good products at a great price. They are far from a world class product. They are opposite of my example about Vortex products. RI pistols are not overpriced.
I bought a PST 6 x 24 - 50 FFP mrad about a year ago. At the time didn't have two grand to spend on good glass or the cheaper Night Force.
Very happy with this scope for what I paid for it and its performance to date. Have shot about a thousand rds of .308 in temps from zero degrees to mid nineties, sometimes in the rain and always in sandy conditions at the range I frequent. I took it off to bed the stock and was still on paper when I put it back on afterwards only needing three clicks to get back on the bull. Tracks consistently.
No regrets here and I would buy another w/ out hesitating.
Very happy with this scope for what I paid for it and its performance to date. Have shot about a thousand rds of .308 in temps from zero degrees to mid nineties, sometimes in the rain and always in sandy conditions at the range I frequent. I took it off to bed the stock and was still on paper when I put it back on afterwards only needing three clicks to get back on the bull. Tracks consistently.
No regrets here and I would buy another w/ out hesitating.
Actually that's a business model practiced by several well known companies. And they will often refurbish them and sell them at a reduced price or simply rebuild them and refinish with newer parts/glass. Of course though you think it can only be one way or the other. I like how you had zero response to everything else which is really more relevant to the bullshit you guys always bring up but would instead rather go into what happens to the broken scopes. You've resorted to fishing...
Are you saying they rebuild them and sell them as new?
What well known companies praactice that business model?
You don't have much room to talk. You're the one not really contributing here on the subject at hand other than to try and force a comparison against other products that are literally 2-3x the cost and place expectations that the lesser product meet "world class" standards which is ludicrous. You want to really start doing a side by side comparison then make it apples to apples and start comparing NF to the Razor which is at least remotely in the ball park. I'm fucking fed up with all the jack tards constantly trying to compare a $900 optic to a $2K optic with an elitist attitude and bandwagonning while never acknowledging the fact that everything breaks.
Wow... Your reading comprehension is beyond bad. You want to try and spin the answer in the form of a question to come up with an argument that isn't there. And again you had no real response to my earlier comments except this one. Stay out of politics because your debating skills are terrible.
YOU said several well known companies practice that business model.
I asked you to name them. YOU said they were well known.
Why can't you do that? Why do you keep avoiding the questions?
I'm not avoiding anything. You keep trying to spin the topic and misdirect it somewhere that's completely irrelevant. Now you want to go down a rabbit hole into company business models which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. But just keep asking the same irrelevant questions and trying to misdirect it to a point that you might someday have a remote chance of validity.
u guys do know, that they DO NOT just swap out damaged pst's for new ones, or razors....
the WILL do that will the sub 200 crossfires...
ALL the HS/PST/Razors will be repaired and sent back, unless it cant be, then they will swap it out..
i smashed a pst turret on concrete and bent it... they repaired it.. not swapped.. and did it in a week
i smashed a razor turret on concrete with 45 pounds of weight, and still used it for a year before i sent it in to get checked out...
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/184738-hows-scope-abuse-razor.html
they swapped out the turret assembly and did a tracking check in 3 days.
the only other scopes you can compare PSTs to is other sub 1k scopes... and not many other sub 1k has the PST features... even less a comparable warranty.
mark 4's were great in the 90's... this aint the 90's..
mil/mil option from 700-1000 is PST, Bushnell, Sightron, Weaver and the Sightron is not a FFP
the WILL do that will the sub 200 crossfires...
ALL the HS/PST/Razors will be repaired and sent back, unless it cant be, then they will swap it out..
i smashed a pst turret on concrete and bent it... they repaired it.. not swapped.. and did it in a week
i smashed a razor turret on concrete with 45 pounds of weight, and still used it for a year before i sent it in to get checked out...
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/184738-hows-scope-abuse-razor.html
they swapped out the turret assembly and did a tracking check in 3 days.
the only other scopes you can compare PSTs to is other sub 1k scopes... and not many other sub 1k has the PST features... even less a comparable warranty.
mark 4's were great in the 90's... this aint the 90's..
mil/mil option from 700-1000 is PST, Bushnell, Sightron, Weaver and the Sightron is not a FFP
So you still have not named the companies that you say are well known. you are so full of it that your eyes are brown. You make stuff up and then when called on it refuse to answer the question. Making stuff up is not the way to establish credibility. I'm done with you.
Yup, that's me just making shit up, Lol... Oh no please don't go.... And I don't refuse to answer but choose not to simply to avoid having trolls like you start bashing other companies for a practice you know nothing about but want to Monday night quarterback with your vast knowledge of manufacturing because you slept at a Holiday Inn and play Call of Duty a lot. Go back to your safe queen bench shooting...
Depends on the repair. If it's an entire rebuild and depending on age, level of damage, etc. they may or may not repair it. I agree though on everything else you stated. Fact is no matter what they choose to do it's irrelevant to the whole point of the thread but the same morons want to side track it to suit their argument which is asinine to begin with.
On way that companies can make decent products at a lower cost in countries other than Japan or US or Europe is that LABOR COSTS ARE MUCH LOWER.
This is why manufacturing moves around. It used to be Japan made junk. Then Japan made good stuff and a lower price due to lower labor costs. Then Japanese labor costs went up, so they made good stuff at a higher price. Eventually, the production moved from Japan. And this keeps happening. And heck, some production that moved to other countries from the US is moving back (cars).
The location has little to do with the quality of the product. That is controlled by the quality levels set by the company and the quality control lever that they set. Very high quality products are made in China. But funny thing is, manufacturing is moving out of China due to increased labor costs. Workers want a better life, so costs go up, so production moves. But with China, the company that is marketing the products has to ride heard on the manufacturer to make sure they maintain the quality standards. And understand, that same manufacturing company will make seemingly the exact same product (stealing your design), but of inferior materials, and compete with you. You can only compete by making sure you get the quality level YOU set and provide good customer service. I have seen this in several other hobbies.
Lower price does not mean junk, at least not the range we are talking. Go down th Barska or Counter Sniper prices, and there you see where you start getting junk.
This is why manufacturing moves around. It used to be Japan made junk. Then Japan made good stuff and a lower price due to lower labor costs. Then Japanese labor costs went up, so they made good stuff at a higher price. Eventually, the production moved from Japan. And this keeps happening. And heck, some production that moved to other countries from the US is moving back (cars).
The location has little to do with the quality of the product. That is controlled by the quality levels set by the company and the quality control lever that they set. Very high quality products are made in China. But funny thing is, manufacturing is moving out of China due to increased labor costs. Workers want a better life, so costs go up, so production moves. But with China, the company that is marketing the products has to ride heard on the manufacturer to make sure they maintain the quality standards. And understand, that same manufacturing company will make seemingly the exact same product (stealing your design), but of inferior materials, and compete with you. You can only compete by making sure you get the quality level YOU set and provide good customer service. I have seen this in several other hobbies.
Lower price does not mean junk, at least not the range we are talking. Go down th Barska or Counter Sniper prices, and there you see where you start getting junk.
Lots of good things are made in the Philippines
Ha, olongapo, home of the bar fine, mojo, san miguel, and monkey on a stick. Good times 90&92.
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