Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

#201
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Opticsplanet still says end of December, but grain of salt, etc. I ended up canceling my order and going with a used NF, but I'm still looking forward to seeing how these turn out.
 
#202
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

I think we should start a pool. Or we could have two... one for the PST and one for 208 Amax's.

It's anybody's guess when either of these will show up.

John
 
#203
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

I have a review unit PST coming here next week (2.5-10x44). I would imagine that production quantities should be here shortly. December is unlikely, but January is not out of the question at all.

ILya
 
#206
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as pricing goes, they certainly are costing us more money than we initially anticipated, however I can say that we do plan to keep the initial pricing we released them with in place throughout 2011.

As with any of our products, once 2012 rolls around we'll have to look at things and determine if there will be any cost changes, but I can say that we are committed to keeping our products priced to make them a very good value in the market. There certainly are no current plans for any price increase on the PST's.

Regarding how far along we are, I'd rather not give out any details as that could fuel speculation, which could end up being construed as a specific release date. However, our official response on this is that we anticipate the factory shipping us the first production shipment of the re-designed PST's before the end of 2010.

-Sam</div></div>

I see the list price of the 4-16x50 ffp is now <span style="font-weight: bold">$949</span>
 
#207
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as pricing goes, they certainly are costing us more money than we initially anticipated, however I can say that we do plan to keep the initial pricing we released them with in place throughout 2011.

As with any of our products, once 2012 rolls around we'll have to look at things and determine if there will be any cost changes, but I can say that we are committed to keeping our products priced to make them a very good value in the market. There certainly are no current plans for any price increase on the PST's.

Regarding how far along we are, I'd rather not give out any details as that could fuel speculation, which could end up being construed as a specific release date. However, our official response on this is that we anticipate the factory shipping us the first production shipment of the re-designed PST's before the end of 2010.

-Sam</div></div>

I see the list price of the 4-16x50 ffp is now <span style="font-weight: bold">$949</span> </div></div>

You're looking at MSRP, which hasn't changed from what it was before. The confusion is that we used to have MSRP listed, but with a lower "Buy it Now" price listed on our website at $849.95. The way that worked is that when you bought it off our website it routed the sale to your nearest dealer.

However, we are no longer doing the "Buy it Now" on our website, so we are just listing MSRP. Most dealers will still be selling them less than MSRP and I would guess they would choose to sell them at the same price as before.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.

-Sam
 
#208
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

I've been meaning to update this thread as well. There really isn't much to add to the above--no surprises, the scope has just worked very well as expected.

I didn't keep an exact round count but it survived somewhere around 100 rounds from my light weight 300 RUM shooting 240's at just under 3K fps with no ill effects, so that's a pretty good recoil durability test. I did lots more shooting at long range with it, here's a pic at 1057 yds shooting an 18" gong (through some fog/clouds):

PICT0077.JPG


Tracking was very repeatable and reliable.

While I didn't take it on my pack in elk hunt, I did use it a fair amount hunting whitetails, including a lot of brush hunting on my lightweight 7-08. I did try it as is, but after only a few minutes into the first hunt the turrets had moved a couple times just from the way I was carrying it, so I taped them up:

PICT0379.JPG


Orange fuzz from my vest.... With the nice FFP reticle I was still ready for any long shot that may have been presented.

One of the better features in the thick stuff was the reticle. Many get concerned about using a FFP on low power in low light but the reticle is sized such that it would do OK without the illumination. Not great, but certainly OK.

But with the very good illumination, it goes from OK to excellent for such use. Here are a couple pics I took long ago to show how the reticle looks on 4X in low light:

DSC00419.JPG


DSC00426.JPG


Anyway, I assume my replacement should be here fairly shortly. I'll keep all of you updated on how they compare.
 
#210
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Jon A thanks for your review, very informative I learned alot.
I will now do this test on all my scopes. What power setting do you do these tests on. I am also going to get a pst.
I am a newbie to long range shooting. Could I pm you with a few ?s other than scopes ?s Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
brubo.
 
#211
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brubo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jon A thanks for your review, very informative I learned alot.
I will now do this test on all my scopes. What power setting do you do these tests on. I am also going to get a pst.
I am a newbie to long range shooting. Could I pm you with a few ?s other than scopes ?s Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
brubo. </div></div>
Yes Jon also inspired me to get the leupold Zero point and perform these tests, and let me tell you this thing is great. I can change scopes and simply by knowing where the crosshairs were on the grid with the old scope I can put the new scope on and have it boresighted within inches!
Unfortunately I went with a used NF as on of the other members stated they did above. For the price point the PST's offer a whole lot and I believe will have a good corner of the market covered. maybe once they come out I'll have a "need" for another great scope on a so-so gun
wink.gif

Keep up the good work Scott!
 
#212
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Be careful trusting the Leupold, I also have one, and thought I had a shifty reticle. Send Scott at Vortex an email and hell explain why they should be taken with a grain of salt. I dont want to copy his email reply without permission yet.
 
#216
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any ideas on what would be the best time to return the
"buggy" PST scopes from the first batch? </div></div>

Define "buggy"?

have you called Vortex?
 
#219
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brubo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could I pm you with a few ?s other than scopes ?s Thanks for sharing your knowledge.</div></div>
Feel free to PM me anytime. Sometimes it takes me a while to get to them but I try to get to them all eventually.
 
#220
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful trusting the Leupold, I also have one, and thought I had a shifty reticle. Send Scott at Vortex an email and hell explain why they should be taken with a grain of salt. I dont want to copy his email reply without permission yet. </div></div>
Scott your PM box is full could permission be granted
grin.gif
 
#221
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting on the replacement.</div></div>

I'm still waiting on your replacement! I dug your review, and will be looking forward to a follow up with the new one. Will be a deciding factor on buying one.
 
#222
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting on the replacement.</div></div>

I'm still waiting on your replacement! I dug your review, and will be looking forward to a follow up with the new one. Will be a deciding factor on buying one. </div></div>

And I'm just waiting on my first one!!! I know some PST's have shipped..... but none of the FFP models have to my knowledge...
frown.gif


Mike
 
#223
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Scott & Sam: I have to say, I'm VERY impressed with your candor and Vortex's mindset in regards to your products. It is extremely refreshing to see this and other companies (coughLEUPOLDcough)should be taking a LOT of notes. If Vortex continues on this path, I can see you guys DOMINATING the market. I have never really considered Vortex scopes but I will DEFINITELY check you guys out at SHOT this year.

For you guys waiting: I know it sucks to wait but I think the end product will be worth it.
 
#224
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

is there a reason why these are delayed? i would like to get one of these on this side of the pond but no hope there if you havent got them yet.

Also any Vortex stockist who ship international?
 
#225
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is there a reason why these are delayed? i would like to get one of these on this side of the pond but no hope there if you havent got them yet.

Also any Vortex stockist who ship international? </div></div>
Uh, have you read through this thread??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sure, I'll do my best.

As you know the main complaints on the few we sent out were that the turrets didn't have firm enough clicks and they were too easy to turn. In addition, I believe there was one scope that got a glob of grease on one of the ocular lenses inside the scope.

To improve the turrets it wasn't just as simple as taking apart the turret and "fixing it".

We had to completely re-engineer the turret mechanism to improve the click and we literally threw away all the old turrets, eating the cost ourselves. The old design just wasn't capable of being improved to our satisfaction.

Even then, once we had the new design on paper we still needed to see a good sample size of prototyes to confirm the design and the new assembly process. This required new tooling and new tooling always seems to take a LONG time.

At this stage it essentially goes like this: New design -> wait for tooling to be completed -> wait for prototypes to be made -> test prototypes.

It's rare that a first prototype is ever 100%, so if it isn't, you have to start that whole process over again with whatever tweaks were made.

Once you've finally approved the prototypes, then you have to get the production line up and running again, which also takes quite a bit of time.

Regarding the grease blob, we did re-tool the assembly area/process to make sure that it was as clean as can be to avoid anything like that happening again. This also took some time.

Finally, we revamped our internal inspection process and in fact we even invested in quite a bit of new equipment to help us with that. That equipment took time to make and put in place.

So, even though we may have the final prototypes that work 100%, have the production line up and running, and may even know the date when the first shipment is coming in, until they have been 100% inspected in house and passed I am reluctant to say anything and get peoples hopes up.

In retrospect I see a lot of things that we did wrong with our initial release of the PST's last SHOT Show and I feel really bad about that. I really wish we just wouldn't have even introduced them, but unfortunately I can't go back and change that.

However, we have learned a lot from this and we have certainly changed the way that we develop and introduce product to avoid this ever happening again.

Anyway, I know this doesn't make the wait any better and I'm very sorry that it ended up this way, but hopefully you all will find the wait worth it and we can get PSTs out to customers soon.

-Sam </div></div>
 
#226
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Oh its still the turrets...

Do these rival their Night force equivalents? seem good price for the features as long as they hold up
 
#227
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh its still the turrets...

Do these rival their Night force equivalents? seem good price for the features as long as they hold up </div></div>

Obviously you still didnt read it. No one has a final product 6-24x50 in SFP or FFP scope yet to compare to a nightforce.
 
#228
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Obviously you still didnt read it. No one has a final product 6-24x50 in SFP or FFP scope yet to compare to a nightforce.</div></div>

And...

Seriously? You want to compare a $500 optic to a $1200 minimum optic in the 1-4x24 range... or a $850 or so to a $1483 minimum optic in the 4x16x50 vs 3.5x15x50 comparison?

And you are wondering if they "rival" these supposed "equivalents"?

I can answer that. No. They don't. And i cant find the link off hand but someone actually did side by sides between the two and the Viper PST was "good enough" but the nightforce glass was a little sharper and had less apparent "red" chromatic aberration based on teh photos presented (although take that with a grain of salt because even the author admitted little experience in that area and that the photos were not calibrated particularly for color).
 
#229
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Correct. If you want to compare Vortex to NF compare the Razor. I doubt Vortex ever planned on taking over NF with the PST series, this is a new niche market here, but could possibly be the biggest market for rifle scopes there is.

I have a Razor, standard Viper, and Crossfire, and a PST 6-24 on the way. In their respective classes they do RIVAL or beat the competitors easily.

Not saying you cant compare the PST's to a NF, because they do trump them on features for the most part. But Im sure even Vortex would admit the PST's wont compete with NF glass (again, thats what the Razor has HD glass for)
 
#230
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

IF the PST has the features and the reliability that the Nightforce has then id say it could rival the Nightforce scopes.

NF scopes arent cheap here i can get S&B for similar money so if i wanted to pay that kind of cash then id just get a S&B

But in all honesty i want a good reliable scope with decent optics for shooting on my 17HMR and my .223 thats not going to break the bank.

i just dont want it to fall apart in my hands or have mushy turrets and fail to hold zero like some of the other lower end stuff like Falcon and chinese made crap
 
#232
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adician</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Expect a $900 scope, but it doesn't mean it has to be bad. I just dont expect it to be comparable to anything twice it's price.</div></div>

Ok.

Take a Razor and a Viper PST and look inside.

Apart from better glass what notable differences are their going to be between the 2 scopes?

i have often wondered this about many makers who have premium offerings vs their standard
 
#233
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Take a Razor and a Viper PST and look inside.

Apart from better glass what notable differences are their going to be between the 2 scopes?
</div></div>

Actually thats a fair question.

Not having a good reference for the PST's innards yet, I would point out that the Razor is supposedly assembled in japan and the PST is definitely assembled in the Philippines though both use Japanese glass albeit of different coatings / grades.

Not sure about the turret design, illumination, and such yet.
 
#234
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Look at a pair of Swarovski or Leica $2000+ binoculars, and a pair of Bushnell roof prism binoculars. What looks different on the inside? Nothing. So why the $2000 price difference? Number one is Glass quality, number two build quality and optical engineering behind it.

Now for Razor and PST differences. Probably $500 of it comes from the glass quality and construction quality.

Second, the Zero stop in the Razor is one of, if not the, most advanced on the market. Im sure that piece is not cheap to manufacture. The PST simply relies on shims to stop it close to zero where the Razor stops dead on zero, with no stress to the erector.

Youve got a 35mm tube with more elevation adjustment than any scope besides a SB SN9 that I know of.

But besides that, then yeah, theres no difference.

And I dont know where you (millspec) can find an S&B for the same price as a Nightforce, but Id love to know!

I dont want to sound like Im dogging on Vortex in any way. I think the PST's are going to be incredible for their price point, almost unbeatable looking at total value. I just dont like it when people get their expectations up thinking its going to be the end all be all, then when they get it and say that it cant even compare to a nightforce...well it shouldve never been compared to one in the first place.
 
#235
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

I think that when the dust settles, that for a LOT of Tactical style shooters and wannabes, the PST *will* be known as the poor man's NF on features alone. That doesn't mean it is equivalent, though. There are professional users all over the world that have been beating the tar out of NF's and having them continue to perform reliably in the worst of field conditions for many years. The Razor is designed to fill that role for Vortex, not the PST.

Look at a .mil laptop and the one you buy your kid for college and you'll get an idea. The requirement for the PST was for enthusiasts shooting on one way ranges. That scope is not expected to compete with the NF's, Razors, S&B's and PH's with regard to field robustness and reliability and undoubtedly does not.

I'd not hesitate to drive a nail with my Razor. I'd not try that with the PST. Watch Franks torture test video again and ask yourself if you really believe it's reasonable to expect a full-featured tactical scope in the $900 range to perform similarly there.

Which brings up a good point... Frank, would love to see you run a 4-16 or 6-24 PST through that test. Would be very insightful.

.02

John
 
#236
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look at a pair of Swarovski or Leica $2000+ binoculars, and a pair of Bushnell roof prism binoculars. What looks different on the inside? Nothing. So why the $2000 price difference? Number one is Glass quality, number two build quality and optical engineering behind it.

Now for Razor and PST differences. Probably $500 of it comes from the glass quality and construction quality.

Second, the Zero stop in the Razor is one of, if not the, most advanced on the market. Im sure that piece is not cheap to manufacture. The PST simply relies on shims to stop it close to zero where the Razor stops dead on zero, with no stress to the erector.

Youve got a 35mm tube with more elevation adjustment than any scope besides a SB SN9 that I know of.

But besides that, then yeah, theres no difference.

And I dont know where you (millspec) can find an S&B for the same price as a Nightforce, but Id love to know!

I dont want to sound like Im dogging on Vortex in any way. I think the PST's are going to be incredible for their price point, almost unbeatable looking at total value. I just dont like it when people get their expectations up thinking its going to be the end all be all, then when they get it and say that it cant even compare to a nightforce...well it shouldve never been compared to one in the first place.</div></div>

This is a good explanation. i have never looked inside a scope to know whats going on in there.

I understand Zeiss and S&B are made in germany where the people are anal about engineering and labour costs are high.

But it does get a bit murky when we talk about optics that are made in Japan and other far eastern countries.

Everyone claims to have japanese optics these days and claims light transmission levels that non of us can honestly confirm.

I know Light Optical in Japan make glass for just about everyone even some German scope makers. There are obviously different grades of glass and levels of coatings applied but really we are just trusting the makers that whats in the scope is what we are expecting to be in there for the money we are paying.

Now if i took apart a Razor and a PST and looked inside and there was no difference between the two and i looked through the scope and couldnt honestly say there was much between the glass:

I dont know if i was happy i got a scope as good as a Razor for $600 or be pissed that my $2000 wasnt any better than the cheaper one.

I suppose thats why some manufacturers stick to the High-End of the market and never make cheaper alternatives, they maybe just lose features to reduce cost rather than reduce quality.

Its hard to say what exactly am i losing by opting for a PST over a Razor...
 
#237
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its hard to say what exactly am i losing by opting for a PST over a Razor... </div></div>

Like I alluded to above, I think you're going to give up ultimate toughness and reliability. Will the PST be "good enough"? That's a good question. Perhaps Scott or Sam can chime in with some key differences so we can make better choices, but if you want the highest level of mechanical reliability and robustness, buy a Razor.

Just one example. The tube thickness on the Razor is 2mm. That's .080"! I'm pretty sure that the PST with a 30mm tube is nowhere near that thick. That's just one example. If you start looking at the material choices and the tolerances of the individual parts in critical areas, you'll most likely find that the cost begins to add up slowly, but translates into a large overall difference in the life of the scope in varying conditions.

The Razor was purpose designed to meet the toughest professional LEO and military requirements. Think of the PST as a hunting scope with tactical features. Perhaps not completely fair (sorry Sam, Scott), but I think way more representative than PST=NF.

John
 
#238
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

It would be good to get the official word on the differences between the 2 lines so we can make an informed choice
 
#239
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

John,

I think your assessment is pretty good, although I will say that we did start from scratch with a tactical design, rather than trying to take a hunting scope and make it tactical.

We tried to make the PSTs the best tactical scopes in their price point, but as with anything you do get some advantages when you put more money into building something.

Certainly the Razor/NF comparison is a lot more fair than a PST/NF comparison. I think if you held a PST and a Razor/NF side by side you will see there is a noticeable difference in the heft. That extra heft in the Razor/NF has a lot to do with beefier components that help take durability to the extreme.

I think the bottom line is that the PSTs were meant to be the best tactical scopes we could make in that price point. They are incredibly durable and I think time will prove that, but they just aren't quite to the extreme such as scopes in the Razor category.

Then there are other little differences that increase the price of scopes like the Razor, such as a much more robust and heavier zero-stop design, more total travel, a better (more expensive) optical design that uses more glass elements (which also adds weight).

In the end, you just have to decide what's best for you, but I don't think people will be disappointed with the PSTs at all, especially for the money. And in some cases I could even see where guys might like the fact that they are lighter weight over the heavier scopes.

Hope this helps.

-Sam
 
#240
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Sam.

Do you have a UK importer currently? the only prices i see for UK vortex scopes are out of kilter with the exchange rate and taxes.

Id love a vortex but i dont want to give some dealer £200 premium for the privilege of owning one. infact id rather give you an extra £50 direct to post me one out!!!

At least then i know the money is going to the people who deserve it and not some dealer who doesnt carry stock but makes a few hundred just for ordering it in.

thanks
 
#242
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Sam,

Thanks for chiming in. Your facts are a lot more powerful than my speculation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say that we did start from scratch with a tactical design, rather than trying to take a hunting scope and make it tactical.</div></div>

I knew that would get me in trouble, but I was looking for a mental picture. Didn't mean to misrepresent you.

John
 
#243
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sam,

Thanks for chiming in. Your facts are a lot more powerful than my speculation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say that we did start from scratch with a tactical design, rather than trying to take a hunting scope and make it tactical.</div></div>

I knew that would get me in trouble, but I was looking for a mental picture. Didn't mean to misrepresent you.

John </div></div>

No worries. It didn't seem like you were trying to misrepresent anything. Thanks Jon!

-Sam
 
#244
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hope this helps.

-Sam
</div></div>

And this right here is why its worth putting down the money to try a vortex if you havent owned one before.

These guys care about the shooting community enough to interact, fix a problem when they become aware of one, and you know they stand behind thier products.
 
#246
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My replacement should ship today! </div></div>

Perhaps the most highly anticipated review redux in the history of Sniper's Hide.
grin.gif


John
 
#247
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Perhaps the most highly anticipated review redux in the history of Sniper's Hide.

</div></div>

Hard to disagree with that.
 
#248
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hope this helps.

-Sam
</div></div>

And this right here is why its worth putting down the money to try a vortex if you havent owned one before.

These guys care about the shooting community enough to interact, fix a problem when they become aware of one, and you know they stand behind thier products. </div></div>

This is very true!
 
#249
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Togeneral99</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful trusting the Leupold, I also have one, and thought I had a shifty reticle. Send Scott at Vortex an email and hell explain why they should be taken with a grain of salt. I dont want to copy his email reply without permission yet. </div></div>
Scott your PM box is full could permission be granted
grin.gif
</div></div>Just to be clear, he is not referring to leupold, but rather the practice of using a very economical boresighter as a collimator. They are made to be bore sighters and work very well for putting a new scope on to a rifle that had a previous scope on it, but a trust worthy collimator they are not. They are not precise enough and introduce to many varibles to be reliable and accurate for this use. We tested them on our best optical bench(which can measure to .001 of a degree) and the stadia lines literally look like a snake and are out up to .5 degrees back and forth all the way down and across among other issues. I really am not putting this product down as it does its intended job very well, it is just not a suitable replacement for expensive optical test equipment.


Scott
 
#250
Re: Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 FFP Initial Impressions

Ah that is what I was wondering.
So for the purpose of swaping scopes and maintaining the impact on paper (not a refined zero) it'll do.
Would you say it to be accurate enough to determine at what mag. setting a SFP scope's reticle is accurate?

Thanks
Wes
 
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