I’ve had NF scopes in the past when I did a lot of predator hunting and like them but recently have really gotten on the Athlon wagon. Not only because my youngest is still in college and my play funds aren’t always what they used to be, but they have some darned good glass and well thought out design. I’ll be putting a Midas Tac on my V22 without hesitation. What’s really surprising is the Ares ETR. For $1200 street price, in my opinion you've got to spend $2500 or more to beat the glass, tracking and features of the aprs3 reticle. For me, once I shot a well laid out, floating dot Christmas tree reticle at range in the wind I was hooked. Definitely a brand to consider for those that spent all their money on their Vudoo like me or if you are looking for a surprising value.
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Vudoo Gun Works V-22 Rimfire Bolt Action
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
I’ve had NF scopes in the past when I did a lot of predator hunting and like them but recently have really gotten on the Athlon wagon. Not only because my youngest is still in college and my play funds aren’t always what they used to be, but they have some darned good glass and well thought out design. I’ll be putting a Midas Tac on my V22 without hesitation. What’s really surprising is the Ares ETR. For $1200 street price, in my opinion you've got to spend $2500 or more to beat the glass, tracking and features of the aprs3 reticle. For me, once I shot a well laid out, floating dot Christmas tree reticle at range in the wind I was hooked. Definitely a brand to consider for those that spent all their money on their Vudoo like me or if you are looking for a surprising value.
The first of the Vudoo/Flavio triggers shipped from Italy just prior to Jan 1st.
MB
Since SHOT Show is upon us I've been asked quite a lot recently about the 17WSM and if Vudoo has any plans of doing one. I figured I would post here what my responses have been as this thread has been a great place to impart useful information amongst a community that just "gets it."
I have quite a bit of experience with the 17WSM and due to the parent case, a .27 Caliber Nail Gun Blank, I steer very clear of offering it as a platform from Vudoo. The properties of the brass fall pretty far outside those found in properties common to the firearms industry and this forces undesirable changes to the mechanics of the action. Anyone not favoring an excessively hard bolt lift, heavy triggers, poor accuracy and feeding issues would be frustrated with such a platform. I just don't know what they were thinking when this thing was dreamed up.
The few rifles currently in production display all the things I mention above and I know for a fact one rifle in particular has the highest production fallout of all other platforms under that brand. So, while reading the specs of the 17WSM may represent a ballistic advantage, the properties required to offer a high quality, reliable and functional platform simply aren't there.
As mentioned here recently, we're introducing the V-22M at SHOT that chambers the 17HMR and 22WMR and believe me, if it was possible to put the 17WSM in this action and tell you guys it would be everything that the other Vudoo's are, I'd do it. But honesty and integrity are too important to us to take the chance and we simply won't "play-up-to" the community like that.
Thanks Guys, I hope this answers all the questions and stay tuned for more info on the other things I've not mentioned here yet.
MB
I have quite a bit of experience with the 17WSM and due to the parent case, a .27 Caliber Nail Gun Blank, I steer very clear of offering it as a platform from Vudoo. The properties of the brass fall pretty far outside those found in properties common to the firearms industry and this forces undesirable changes to the mechanics of the action. Anyone not favoring an excessively hard bolt lift, heavy triggers, poor accuracy and feeding issues would be frustrated with such a platform. I just don't know what they were thinking when this thing was dreamed up.
The few rifles currently in production display all the things I mention above and I know for a fact one rifle in particular has the highest production fallout of all other platforms under that brand. So, while reading the specs of the 17WSM may represent a ballistic advantage, the properties required to offer a high quality, reliable and functional platform simply aren't there.
As mentioned here recently, we're introducing the V-22M at SHOT that chambers the 17HMR and 22WMR and believe me, if it was possible to put the 17WSM in this action and tell you guys it would be everything that the other Vudoo's are, I'd do it. But honesty and integrity are too important to us to take the chance and we simply won't "play-up-to" the community like that.
Thanks Guys, I hope this answers all the questions and stay tuned for more info on the other things I've not mentioned here yet.
MB
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You gotta love this guy! Who else in the industry spills the beans like this with integrity and honesty? No one that I have seen. BTW, I don't even own a Vudoo but I call it like I see it.
Got some much needed trigger time today. Although the wind was pretty brutal it finally let up enough the last couple hours of day light to gather some useful data. Was shooting steel gongs at 200, 300, and 400. Man what a blast hearing that steel ping almost 2 seconds after you pull the trigger. The more I shoot the gun the more I love it! I did learn, at least with my Vudoo, it will shoot lots of ammo great out to 200+ yards. Once you get to the 300 & 400 range the Center X really starts to shine. At 400 I could hit the 10“ gong with about any ammo I threw at it, with good consistency. But with the center x the 8” and 6” gongs were ringing every time I sent a round at it. The 8“ was almost boring. The 6” was a little more of a challenge with even a slight breeze. I’m still learning to read the mirage and today was a great learning experience. That being said, I do have a question. I’ve been using StrelokPro with my weatherflow meter and really like the combination. I’m getting pretty good results using the truing feature on BC. I’m just curious as to what drag function most are using on strelok. I have heard that G1 and RA4 are exactly the same under a certain velocity. I’m getting different results between the two. They are close but do differ. So, is one better than the other or just use the one that gives the best solution? Sorry if this is a dumb question and I know it’s been asked before but I didn’t see anything recently. I’m fairly new to the rimfire game and still soaking up all the knowledge I can. Thanks for the help and thanks VGW for such a fun gun to shoot!
The V-22M coming off the machines....
MB
MB
MB,
You should seriously consider a small sized centerfire cartridge to make an action for. Think 17WSM ballistics.
As we know the vertical even by 200Y is going to pot in all rimfires, even with match ammo. Reasons are poor ES and iffy quality massed produced ammo.
I and others would love an accurate tiny centerfire that we could reload for with match grade bullets, also achieve low ES with, get .3" at 100Y, and sub 1/2 moa farther out.
I have a custom 20-221AI that I made a reduced load for that is a tad too long for a rimfire action and has a little too much case capacity as is, but is no doubt my most enjoyable rifle to shoot. 32 grainers at 2330 fps which is close to 1/2 moa on out to 300Y.
Had a 17hmr and 22mags, they can't hold a candle to the above load in accuracy or ES, is why.
You should seriously consider a small sized centerfire cartridge to make an action for. Think 17WSM ballistics.
As we know the vertical even by 200Y is going to pot in all rimfires, even with match ammo. Reasons are poor ES and iffy quality massed produced ammo.
I and others would love an accurate tiny centerfire that we could reload for with match grade bullets, also achieve low ES with, get .3" at 100Y, and sub 1/2 moa farther out.
I have a custom 20-221AI that I made a reduced load for that is a tad too long for a rimfire action and has a little too much case capacity as is, but is no doubt my most enjoyable rifle to shoot. 32 grainers at 2330 fps which is close to 1/2 moa on out to 300Y.
Had a 17hmr and 22mags, they can't hold a candle to the above load in accuracy or ES, is why.
@RAVAGE88 I couldn’t agree more. I bought a CZ 17 hornet to be a “step up” from rimfire cartridges. I wanted something with a very low report when suppressed with very little recoil. Something that would just be a pleasant caliber to go out and mess around with. Something that stretches out further with much better ballistics than a rimfire that could be used for small varmints out to around 400 yards. The CZ while decent for the money, is just not comparable to a nice custom action. I hear great things about the 20 Vartarg
). Cooper makes them but thier stock choices are very limited outside laminate and wood. Need someone to fill this small caliber varminter role in a Rem 700 footprint. BTW if you have no interest in building centerfires I won’t bring it up again. Otherwise I probably will from time to time until you make em
Yep I have. I used to have a 17K Hornet at one point. Had a 22 Hornet also. About the right powder capacity.
Sure would like to get away from a rimmed case though. This is partially why I went to the 221FB case. 10 round AI mags for a tiny centerfire would be cool too.
The other day I shot my bud's 17 Remington, then shot my reduced 20-221AI load, I laughed how much less recoil there was, and how much quieter it was.
Those who have the Vudoo hard case, how much longer of a barrel could it fit? I’m wondering if it would also work for my centerfire in a Manners
I've been reloading this for my PS90.
My main complaint is the rim is so small and there isn't much of a shoulder. When I pull up on the press handle sometimes the rim will slip off the shell holder.
But I read of a guy getting almost 3000 fps with 40's in a bolt action he chambered for it.
I've heard the same....next thing will be 80 gr Bergers at 1450 fps...................................
Sounds interesting, I better fire up Quickload and see whats possible. LOL!! Probably need a 6.5 twist to make that work...
Most 22LR suppressors are rated for it, also.
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I believe mine would take a barrel length up to 25” without cutting any foam.
I was having some light strikes today with my firing pin, so I took the bolt apart for the first time to clean. I have no f'n idea what I'm doing wrong, but can't get the bolt together right and it's binding in the action. is there a video on the bolt disassembly/reassembly? Have several R700 actions and never have an issue. Might be they cost way less and I'm not as reluctant to screw with them. The lugs and bolt face just don't seem to align right. The bolt jams and can not work action.
Steve, this is an excellent recommendation and certainly something I’ve been thinking about for a while. There are a ton of CF actions on the market and I’ve not wanted to get lost in all that clone stuff, so been listening hard to what you guys have been saying. Once we get SHOT behind us I’ll open up a CF design I’ve already done and play around a bit....Standby.
MB
@RAVAGE88 I couldn’t agree more. I bought a CZ 17 hornet to be a “step up” from rimfire cartridges. I wanted something with a very low report when suppressed with very little recoil. Something that would just be a pleasant caliber to go out and mess around with. Something that stretches out further with much better ballistics than a rimfire that could be used for small varmints out to around 400 yards. The CZ while decent for the money, is just not comparable to a nice custom action. I hear great things about the 20 Vartarg
BTW if you have no interest in building centerfires I won’t bring it up again. Otherwise I probably will from time to time until you make em
Definitely interested and always open to input. Thanks Dude.
MB
Im flying all day today but will try to help via PM. I believe I know what’s going on, but can you PM a pic to me?
MB
I put my vudoo together in November and yesterday i officially surpassed 6000 rounds, not one fail to feed or fire. I average 200 rounds a session. Mostly shot cci sv but have tried lots of others as well with no issues. My 8 year old grand son hit 50 out of 50 on an 8 inch plate at 150 yards from my bench .I got a magneto speed hit indicator for xmas so that added to his fun . I think he is hooked.
Thanks for building such a great rifle!
Thanks for building such a great rifle!
For you, Mike, and all SHOT denizens! (shamelessly stolen from Guardian Long Range Competition)
Isn’t that the truth. I start doping up on Vitamin C a few priors prior to SHOT and absolutely avoid shaking hands with anyone and have avoided the SHOT Show Crud for a number of years. The Crud is legendary....
MB
Awesome to hear this and glad you’re enjoying your rifle, but most of all, it’s so cool to hear the youngsters out shooting and he’s obviously a natural.
MB
MB:
People want another Vudoo to buy. Fair dinkum. I am no different. But now we have, or will have, a Vudoo 22LR Tactical, Bench Rest and Long Range. And Tactical 17HMR, 17HM2, 22WM. Six rifles if one wants one of each.
I ask myself it's OK to want another rifle if it has sufficiently different capabilities such as Tactical, Bench Rest and Long Range. So CF certainly qualifies because of muzzle velocity assuming bullet weights will be 40 grains or less. And the ability to reload so could have much more consistent ammunition. In terms of accuracy how small a group could a small caliber, handloaded CF round achieve at 400, 500 600 yd? 1 MOA, 0.5 MOA? How much does one want? Given those considerations, the Ruger 204 seems a worthy contender but how consistent is the available factory ammunition? Or 223 Rem for which I presume there is high consistency, high priced factory match ammunition.
Then, could you design a significantly better action? That is, have other designs overlooked some important factors? No fun designing a clone as you stated.
This year will be the Long Range for me, next the Bench Rest and be assured the CF if Vudoo makes one.
Rick
People want another Vudoo to buy. Fair dinkum. I am no different. But now we have, or will have, a Vudoo 22LR Tactical, Bench Rest and Long Range. And Tactical 17HMR, 17HM2, 22WM. Six rifles if one wants one of each.
I ask myself it's OK to want another rifle if it has sufficiently different capabilities such as Tactical, Bench Rest and Long Range. So CF certainly qualifies because of muzzle velocity assuming bullet weights will be 40 grains or less. And the ability to reload so could have much more consistent ammunition. In terms of accuracy how small a group could a small caliber, handloaded CF round achieve at 400, 500 600 yd? 1 MOA, 0.5 MOA? How much does one want? Given those considerations, the Ruger 204 seems a worthy contender but how consistent is the available factory ammunition? Or 223 Rem for which I presume there is high consistency, high priced factory match ammunition.
Then, could you design a significantly better action? That is, have other designs overlooked some important factors? No fun designing a clone as you stated.
This year will be the Long Range for me, next the Bench Rest and be assured the CF if Vudoo makes one.
Rick
That would be fantastic!
BTW, over at Saubier small caliber forum there are many guys that have been searching for a short repeater action for many years. Someone had commissioned a small number of actions and the guy making them decided not to go through with it which was very disappointing to the forums members that had preordered.
There's definitely a hole in the market between the rimfires and the Rem M7's or CZ 527 in action size. I'm thinking that taking 6mmPPC and reducing it proportionally in every dimension to suit 17 and 20 cal, this would be a good start. Maybe no smaller than a 32acp case head size please???
Steve123:
I am intrigued by your remarks concerning action size. What does difference in action size do for you other than the smaller the COAL I presume the smaller the action can be?
Rick
17 and 20 cal centerfire definitely seems like a market begging to have a great Rem 700 style action made for it and the next logical step up from rimfire.
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You guys never cease to amaze me and I really do appreciate it. With all the activity within what has been a pretty incredible design cycle at Vudoo, the ownership pauses about once a week and discusses the next things. Lately, I commonly pull up a design outline I originally created on May 26, 2013, it was broken down into two categories, rimfire and centerfire. Originally, my rimfire was going to be the newly introduced Remington 40X, but their internal corporate disasters, bankruptcies, etc., sent me down another path. So, after a bit of adjustment, the first part of what is the V-22 line was accomplished in 2017 after wrapping Vudoo around the designs in late 2016. The more recent design cycle took the rimfire part of that 2013 outline even further so we won’t be done with rimfire anytime soon, I mean, we have to give others plenty to copy, right?
So, no different than getting busy in SolidWorks to create the rimfire, there has been a parallel effort for the centerfire, but the centerfire action world has been a dust cloud of activity for quite a while. Everyone is doing a clone of some sort and while there are some awesome actions out there, they're all doing the same thing. For this reason, the centerfire for me has been a moving target because when we do one, it’ll be DEFTI, something for everyone else to chase like they’re chasing our rimfire. Just a quick side note....For a number of years a lot of people told me I was crazy. They said no one wanted a $XXXX rimfire. The common “corporate” question was, “what’s the market”? My common response was, “who gives a sh*t”? ”I’ll create the market.” Funny thing is, the most recent of the manufacturers to enter the market had an opportunity with my designs before Vudoo existed, and we see how things have now changed....right?
So, back to centerfire; what I have in SolidWorks is really starting to take shape. I’m tempted to give a few details, but I have to hold back for a little while longer. What I will say is, it’s likely not going to have any clone DNA (this may evolve a little), that’s been done to death; so much so that if I were to buy an action right now to build a CF on I’d just stick with my Accuracy International.
Now, last thing, because timing is everything, as it was with the V-22, I have no timeline on the CF at the moment. This is where it’s important for us to pay attention, listen to what the community is saying and recognize the opportunities that lead the way to doing really cool stuff that solves the right problems. BTW, I was paying attention to a small group in Colorado now known as the 40X Mafia and look how far paying attention can get you.
I’ve said all this to let you guys know, we’re always listening to you, not watching what other companies have done and then claim that whatever we’ve copied is our own idea. The rest of the industry can choose to work that way if they want, but that’s not how we do it.
Thanks again Rick and all who continue to challenge us, it’s pretty awesome....
MB
For me it's both the cartridge size and an appropriate sized action for it.
I've had a fair amount of 17 caliber and two 20 caliber centerfire cartridges to compare with, some of these are loud, and heat up a barrel very quick, can also copper up a barrel in short order. Once I stumbled on two used 20-221AI's and worked up the reduced load, I found a sort of nirvana of 'low noise, very low recoil, low-ish ES - """which could be better with the correct sized case capacity""", low powder consumption, inexpensive but good bullets, long barrel life, long brass life, long strings without the barrel getting hot, great accuracy, and decent ballistics for what it is .210G1BC/2330 fps.
Most of my original objective was to shoot on rimfire rated steel without damaging it. Aaaand have challenge in the wind which those more poweful 17 and 20 cal centerfires won't allow. But have small vertical along with accuracy at distance the rimfires aren't capable of.
Honestly I've only shot on steel past 100Y with this load but when it was calm out I've gotten a plat the size of a half dollar at 200Y and a maybe a 2.25." splat at 300Y. Let's just say my $3000 Anschutz 1827F isn't anywhere close to this with tested ammo but it has averaged .26" at 50Y in Jbells 6x5.
We've got our 17 Rem's, 204's, 223's, already and actions suited for them, what I have in mind is "different" and that is what makes the tiny centerfire interesting.
Vudoo, Mike Bush
While there is success in constantly adding new products and expanding your offering. I just pray that you don't do what Kimber, Dakota Arms and some other manufacturers have done and all of a sudden decided the rimfire market is too small to market to. While I have the privilege to own some of these rifles, it is almost impossible to get parts for them. And I prefer the Vudoo over all of them. Thanks for listening to all all comments for what people want, but please never forget what created your success.
Wishing you great fortune in this new year!
Riz
While there is success in constantly adding new products and expanding your offering. I just pray that you don't do what Kimber, Dakota Arms and some other manufacturers have done and all of a sudden decided the rimfire market is too small to market to. While I have the privilege to own some of these rifles, it is almost impossible to get parts for them. And I prefer the Vudoo over all of them. Thanks for listening to all all comments for what people want, but please never forget what created your success.
Wishing you great fortune in this new year!
Riz
Thanks for the info. An interesting round. However, I am not interested in reloading and perhaps many others aren't either. If there are no quality commercial products, what is the market? Chicken and egg situation.
^^^^THIS is a true reality check and I’m thankful we have the type of relationship with our customers that includes a level of trust that enables such open and honest dialogue.
And, not to worry. Rimfire is who we are and what we do. We’re familiar enough with the dynamic you mentioned that we know to avoid the acumen that abandons our customer base. I’ll make that promise to you and if you ever see that sliding you’re invited to remind me if need be, but you’ll never have to.
MB
So, I’m confused (likely didn’t read all the posts and it was painfully obvious).
Is there another Vudoo .22lr repeater design being released soon? Like a PRS/NRL minded design?
Is there another Vudoo .22lr repeater design being released soon? Like a PRS/NRL minded design?
This made me grin ear to ear when I read it. You gotta love it.
Both Bighorn(now Zemment) and Bergara are releasing rimfire R700 footprint actions that take AICS form factor magazines that look an awful lot like the Vudoo mags, with Bighorn even stating that Vudoo mags will work in their action. Curtiss ?sp? is also releasing an action but is licensing the mags from Vudoo. This info is posted in this and other threads on SH, I'm just parroting it.
The repeater intro’ing at SHOT is the V-22M Magnum for 17HMR and 22WMR. Closely followed by our Three Lug V-22S Single Shot Benchrest.
MB
So you could read this 4430 post the thread a couple ways.
1. Vudoo is tired of all the new clones and getting out of rim fire and moving onto center fire, though this would be much better as an April 1st post.
2. The original v22 is continually evolving (hybrid cone, new ignition ) to deliver the best product to their customers. And also delivering completely new benchrest action. There are also pictures of some parts for a new action and Mike has said it's not a straight pull action. I'm thinking this could be an olympic biathlon action (I'm pretty sure it's a bucket list item for team USA to win gold shooting Vudoo's). The last is possibly an ELR V22 with much different twist rate.
But we have to wait for Shot Show , maybe
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Which I can not wait to give them my money for, I am going to get ass burn getting my wallet out so fast when they announce the BR rifle
ALERT: FILTER OFF.
Ok, it’s time to answer what has been another common question lately and that is, will Vudoo be offering pre-fit barrels. The answer is, adamantly, “No, we won’t be offering pre-fit barrels.” The follow-on question is, “is this because of the extractor cuts?” The answer is, “no, it has nothing to do with extractor cuts.”
So, why is this? If you look back at the very first post of this thread, you’ll see a rifle built in the lab that’s based on one of our first three actions. Looking at the initial posts overall, one might think I was testing the action, but in actuality, I was testing the entire process that was created to purposely offer consistency. There’s a reason the action is designed the way it is, there’s a reason the chamber is designed the way it is, there’s a reason we’re so picky about the barrels we offer, and it’s because we have a very tight approach to controlling every possible variable. This is why the very first shots out of that rifle in the first post created such a tight first five shot group and that’s why I initially built nine rifles the same way using seven of them at the NRA World Championships in 2017 in place of Anschutz (at the invite of Lapua). That’s how we rolled this thing out and we’ve been invited back every year since to participate with Lapua and it’s been amazing. Well over five thousand rounds downrange with no reason to clean or maintain rifles and consistently engage targets out to 485 yards with Center X.
Parallel to this, we initially thought it might be a good idea to offer stand-alone actions for others to barrel but we quickly found out that others don’t control the variables very well. Aside from @flatland1 and GA Precision, we had to re-barrel most every stand-alone action (there might be one or two I’m not remembering and I want to be fair in this post) we sold because the end product didn’t match how we believe the rifles should’ve performed. So, we stopped selling stand-alone actions (except to those few that have knocked it out of the park) and we don’t do marking variances for those just wanting to capitalize on the shooting community. It’s just that simple and it’s proven everyday in various posts in this Rimfire forum.
Another follow-on question is, “well, if your process is so tight and the extractor cuts don’t keep you from making pre-fits, why don’t you do pre-fits?” Very simple, we have to look you in the eye and tell you your rifle will knowingly perform at a level we can guarantee. That means, if we develop the data by shooting your rifle ourselves, we won’t be lying to you by saying your rifle will knowingly perform at a level we can guarantee. Again, very simple. This is all part of our “Satisfaction Guarantee,” and it’s also why we don’t offer some ridiculous “accuracy guarantee.”
I hope this clears it up and as always, keep reaching out with such good questions. We can tell you guys are thinking and you’re asking all the right questions....keep ‘em comin’....I also appreciate the latitude from you guys when I turn off the filter. ????
MB
Ok, it’s time to answer what has been another common question lately and that is, will Vudoo be offering pre-fit barrels. The answer is, adamantly, “No, we won’t be offering pre-fit barrels.” The follow-on question is, “is this because of the extractor cuts?” The answer is, “no, it has nothing to do with extractor cuts.”
So, why is this? If you look back at the very first post of this thread, you’ll see a rifle built in the lab that’s based on one of our first three actions. Looking at the initial posts overall, one might think I was testing the action, but in actuality, I was testing the entire process that was created to purposely offer consistency. There’s a reason the action is designed the way it is, there’s a reason the chamber is designed the way it is, there’s a reason we’re so picky about the barrels we offer, and it’s because we have a very tight approach to controlling every possible variable. This is why the very first shots out of that rifle in the first post created such a tight first five shot group and that’s why I initially built nine rifles the same way using seven of them at the NRA World Championships in 2017 in place of Anschutz (at the invite of Lapua). That’s how we rolled this thing out and we’ve been invited back every year since to participate with Lapua and it’s been amazing. Well over five thousand rounds downrange with no reason to clean or maintain rifles and consistently engage targets out to 485 yards with Center X.
Parallel to this, we initially thought it might be a good idea to offer stand-alone actions for others to barrel but we quickly found out that others don’t control the variables very well. Aside from @flatland1 and GA Precision, we had to re-barrel most every stand-alone action (there might be one or two I’m not remembering and I want to be fair in this post) we sold because the end product didn’t match how we believe the rifles should’ve performed. So, we stopped selling stand-alone actions (except to those few that have knocked it out of the park) and we don’t do marking variances for those just wanting to capitalize on the shooting community. It’s just that simple and it’s proven everyday in various posts in this Rimfire forum.
Another follow-on question is, “well, if your process is so tight and the extractor cuts don’t keep you from making pre-fits, why don’t you do pre-fits?” Very simple, we have to look you in the eye and tell you your rifle will knowingly perform at a level we can guarantee. That means, if we develop the data by shooting your rifle ourselves, we won’t be lying to you by saying your rifle will knowingly perform at a level we can guarantee. Again, very simple. This is all part of our “Satisfaction Guarantee,” and it’s also why we don’t offer some ridiculous “accuracy guarantee.”
I hope this clears it up and as always, keep reaching out with such good questions. We can tell you guys are thinking and you’re asking all the right questions....keep ‘em comin’....I also appreciate the latitude from you guys when I turn off the filter. ????
MB
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