Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

[pmclaine]

I've been considering a .308 rifle. I have messaged with some regarding this. My initial search brought me to two choices

The GAP 10

http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precis...n-gap-10-.html

or the Larue OBR

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...ifle-20-barrel

The GAP 10 and Larue seem to be very similar rifles. Both claim sub MOA accuracy. The GAP-10 has really impressive results reported on Snipers Hide Forum. It has a better price than the Larue but the Larue appears to have a forearm system better for my needs and I like the fact all its parts are produced in house. GAP puts their rifles together using POF uppers and lowers with Bartlein barrels. They must also use love and pixie dust to get the 3/8 MOA accuracy claimed by owners. Obviously the skills of the builder are there it would be nice if they also controlled the manufacture of the parts but really the results show outsourcing of parts is not a concern.

These .308 AR's are great and they both seem to meet the accuracy I am hoping for. Recently I was able to fondle a SCAR 17 and I was impressed. From looking at photos I had the misconception that the plastic stockware would be real cheap, noisy, unstable. It was none of that. It was real light and the installed iron sights seemed well designed and functional, I like the fact that elevation is a funtion of the rear sight on the FN as opposed to a front sight move on most AR BUIS. I have also considered an M1A for my .308needs. I have a Garand and I think the similarities are pushing me toward getting something plastic. Someday I will have the M1A but right now I want something different.

Results have been mixed regards the accuracy of the FNH. I understand mags can be hard to come by also.

Anyone with one of these have some last minute info. Pricing wise the FNH is at the high end and once purchased a $300 trigger replacement is recommended. Of the 3 though the FNH seems to be the most hardy and fitting of the title "battle rifle" (Note - not really interested in getting an FAL, Armalite, et al). The GAP 10 and Larue dont claim to be battle rifles more like precision AR's. I'm starting to put some more importance on my purchase being a hardy rifle over a precision instrument - within reason - My garand is already a sub 3MOA rifle I'd like something better. For the new rifle I want to shoot it, put it in the safe and dont worry about it and the next time I pull it out it will do 1MOA or better.

I'll never be involved with the "battle" aspect of the rifle or carrying it for extended periods of time but I'm thinking the SCAR is a solid rifle that fills that niche in my gunsafe.

For the SCAR optic I'm considering a .308 ACOG. If I were to get one of the other rifles I'd more likely go with something more traditional from Nightforce or US Optics. I'm really not up to speed with pairing rifles and scopes.

What is the future for the SCAR is it going to be a dead end or will there be accesories and etc to come? It seems that the SCAR 16 role is adequately filled by the M16/M4 family AR's and has less of a future than the 17. A 1MOA battle rifle is pretty good unless it ends up being a rifle with no parts support especially considering its cost up front. I know you guys cant predict the future of any gun and obselesence is a risk I'll have to take.

Sorry if this too closely resembles other posts of "Which should I buy" I have been lurking and searching on the forum. I'm just getting to the point where I want to purchase and I want some last minute info.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

pmclaine,
Read this thread. Ryan and I were not paid to conduct this test.
If I were to take a personnally owned weapon into harms way I would order a GAP 10.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...703#Post3035703

 

[johnnycat]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I was going to vote for an M25 from LRB in a McMillan M3A or Troy stock, but I take it you want something along the AR lines and not an M1A right now. I love the M25 - the M1A has a soul that I find lacking in the AR platforms.

But that's just personal preference.

There's no doubt that the GAP-10 is lightyears more accurate than an M1A. I personally think the M1A is more battle-worthy but again - a lot of it is personal preference.

 

[excess]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I have a GAP-10 ( an M1A and a PTR-91 also as far as semi-auto 308s go). If you had said you want a 308 precision semi auto then the GAP-10 is the stand out.

But when I think battle rifle, maybe not. As you said tfe SCAR might be lighter and that would go a long way for me if I had to lug it a long way.

You also mentioned an ACOG. In my opinion an ACOG really wouldn't let you stretch the GAP-10's legs. I know you mentioned the ACOG with the SCAR, but it just seems you may not be looking for that long range gnat's ass accuracy where the GAP-10 really shines.

 

[j.c.]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I believe their accuracy guarantee is 3/4 MOA for the GAP-10 - 3/8 is their custom bolt-action rifles.

Please keep in mind that all AR type rifle no matter who you buy it from is a parts gun, with the parts made by a variety of companies. This guns are not built so much as they are assembled. If you buy a gun made from quality parts you will have a quality gun regardless of who assembles it.

Larue is a company who makes quality parts and they do not make all of them. Still I would not let it hold you back from buying a GAP-10 that they don't mill parts in the "same" shop. Either is a good choice I'd probably let the question be settled based on lead time.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

The accuracy guarantee is more of an overall expectation because generally the SHOOTER has more to do with the fulfillment of any guarantee than a company can impress.

I have routinely shot sub 1/2MOA with my GAP10 so take the guarantee as a guideline and not a statement of fact on the overall system.

I have shot both, as well as other brands and by far accuracy wise the GAP10 is the most accurate of the bunch. Not that the others are not accurate too, just the GAP 10 wins in the overall accuracy department.

GAP has always been conservative when it comes to guarantees because too many people try to exploit that aspect.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The accuracy guarantee is more of an overall expectation because generally the SHOOTER has more to do with the fulfillment of any guarantee than a company can impress.

I have routinely shot sub 1/2MOA with my GAP10 so take the guarantee as a guideline and not a statement of fact on the overall system.

I have shot both, as well as other brands and by far accuracy wise the GAP10 is the most accurate of the bunch. Not that the others are not accurate too, just the GAP 10 wins in the overall accuracy department.

GAP has always been conservative when it comes to guarantees because too many people try to exploit that aspect. </div></div>

Wtf?! You mean we can't buy a sub moa gun and start key holing targets right out of the gate?! I thought all I had to do was point a slap the trigger... Dammit...

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I haven't fired the Larue OBR yet, but I will say I purchased my GAP-10 and on the first trip out had a sub moa group with very little experience behind the trigger on an AR. The right equipment does make the learning curve a little easier.

 

[j.c.]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I agree about the guarantee but just correcting the OP. If either of these guns could not shoot .5 MOA with the right ammo then I'd be disappointed.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

Thank you all for your time in replying, your corrections and sharing your experience.

I think paring it down to either GAP-10 (.308) or FN SCAR 17 is pretty easy but I am left with the feeling doing so doesnt create an apples to apples comparison. They are two rifles of the same caliber but really different capabilities, operating systems and service expectations. Call me out if I'm wrong. I only know from reading and its pretty easy to read the wrong stuff these days.

Is this correct or am I in error. SSATT68's review seems to indicate the GAP is more than durable.

I want rugged to the point if one had to be a battle rifle it could be. I'm not looking for a high maintenance rifle and I dont have the skills of Carlos Hathcock. I'm confident a GAP-10 will hold black on an MR target but will it be a high maintenance rifle? I've never owned a barrel that requires the break in procedure of - fire one shot clean, repeat etc. Currently my newest center fire barrel is a 1952 Springfield Armory item. I dont think the SCAR 17 has the accuracy built into it that the GAP does but it looks robust. I'm assuming it will at least hold a 24 inch black at 500 yards.

The FN starts out more pricey than the GAP but I think I can spend that savings pretty quick by adding a Coyote/FDE finish, and some useable iron sights.

The only correct answer to my question is buy both but I dont have the wallet for that. If I was 100 percent confident in the accuracy of the FN I'd probably go that route but than forever regret not having a dust cover with an American flag prominently displayed.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I have 70 Scars at work and I have a gap10 on order if that means anything

 

[Rollinheavy]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

What calibers can one get the GAP10 in?

So far i believe i have seen .243, 308, 6.5, 260.

Anyone heard of them doing any of the WSM calibers. I'd love to get a .300 WSM

 

[BCP]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

If you want "battle rifle" the LMT is a great carbine. Never saw what the big deal with the SCAR was.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

i would chose the LMT in a heartbeat as a "battle rifle" LMT makes killer stuff

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

My last unit did some testing of the FN SCAR... We still use the AR based platform. Piston guns are somewhat over rated, especially for guy that plans on shooting 10k rounds a year or less. Additionally, we tried the HK 416 upper for a bit and started seeing cracking at the gas block after 50k. DI guns will run you just have to keep it lubed.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

When I read ".308 semi auto battle rifle" I automatically thought LMT MWS with a 16" or maybe 18" barrel. I've read and heard nothing but good about them.

 

[excess]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've never owned a barrel that requires the break in procedure of - fire one shot clean, repeat etc.
</div></div>

You don't really have to break in a GAP-10 like that. GA just puts that on their website as a guide for those that insist break in is necessary.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

“Battle rifle” what does that mean anyway? Substituting durability for accuracy? Being able to hold off the hordes of Zombies post apocalypse?
Being able to hit your intended target at a range that your enemy (paper, people, game animals, etc) is unable to match provides for a serious advantage. Forcing it or them to react earlier than they intended or are totally unsuspecting provides maneuver time for you. Tempo in combat is a force multiplier. Accuracy is king.
If you plan on getting a suppressor down the road, than lean more towards a piston gun.

 

[Tdkps]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

My vote goes to the GAP-10, it's one of the most accurate ARs I have handled and it balances well as an 18.5. I don't doubt about its reliability, although I must admit I haven't taken it on a harsh situation simply because I feel bad about giving hell to a rifle like that. About support, in case you have any problem with a GAP-10, I bet G.A. Precision will provide endless support for it. I haven't had any problems using a suppressor on it while out of the country - no suppressors or NV allowed down here -.

EDIT: On a side note, Imbel M964A1s have been given hell over and over again and although I haven't seen one achieve sub-moa accuracy, you can feed pretty much anything to them. It is a pretty good battle-rifle, you can still get a hit at IPSC human-sized targets at medium-long distances with it. However, it isn't as accurate as a GAP-10 (nor does it intend to be).

EDIT2: Grammar fix

-TDKPS

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

GA's customer service is awesome! The advertized wait times for rifles are over inflated.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I vote GAP10 also if you are going for accuracy. The LMT however would make a great "battle rifle" and I would get the LMT over the SCAR.

I had the OBR and sold it. It just did not do it for me. I think I had my expectations too high for it.

 

[Mike]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

GAP-10 all the way

 

[M14]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

You did say "Battle Rifle" right? Then get an M14 and do a few accuracy mods yourself, and never look back. There is a reason they are being used in theatre now. The government has taken our money and done the research already, on what is the best "Battle Rifle", so follow their lead.

 

[Tdkps]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

The "government knows that it was the best or did that so it must be good" argument doesn't mean it's the best rifle, it just means that they found a rifle that fitted their requirements. Keep in mind that I'm not saying M14s are bad, I'm just saying that they might not be the best "battle-rifle". Also know that if we're talking about using gunsmiths to modify factory rifles so they shoot better, it's possible to improve a FAL to the point it'll shoot sub-moa. Also, I had a M1A fail me before a FAL that had been in use for several years in a jungle environment.

-TDKPS

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You did say "Battle Rifle" right? Then get an M14 and do a few accuracy mods yourself, and never look back. There is a reason they are being used in theatre now. The government has taken our money and done the research already, on what is the best "Battle Rifle", so follow their lead. </div></div>

They are using modded M14 cuase that is the quick and inexpensive fix to for a lack of AR based SASRs. The Army still has thousands of M-14 in inventory.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssatt68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“Battle rifle” what does that mean anyway? Substituting durability for accuracy? Being able to hold off the hordes of Zombies post apocalypse?
Being able to hit your intended target at a range that your enemy (paper, people, game animals, etc) is unable to match provides for a serious advantage. Forcing it or them to react earlier than they intended or are totally unsuspecting provides maneuver time for you. Tempo in combat is a force multiplier. Accuracy is king.
If you plan on getting a suppressor down the road, than lean more towards a piston gun.
</div></div>

"Battle Rifle" to me would be exemplified by comparing an M1 Garand to a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. Both fire the same cartridge, both will hit their target but one is better to hand out to the masses and the other should be given to an artist.

My intended uses for the rifle are from a mat, at NRA targets paper targets and for fun I would like to use it in informal position shooting matches - prone, sitting, offhand - with iron sights. With an eye toward November I want to get something now that may not be available later depending on how things turn out.

I live in MA I'll be lucky if I can get a rifle that holds more than one bullet let alone a suppressor capable barrel. For my needs a suppressor is not on the list. I will have to work with the limitations of the state or through the limited exemptions available.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I've never owned a barrel that requires the break in procedure of - fire one shot clean, repeat etc.
</div></div>

You don't really have to break in a GAP-10 like that. GA just puts that on their website as a guide for those that insist break in is necessary. </div></div>

Thank you this is helpful. Barrel break in is probably like motor cycle engine break in - everyone has an opinion on the best way to do it. I'd probably follow the directions pretty close but as anal as some get with it I dont have the time to go there.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

ok please for the love of god don't say cuz the military uses something means its bad ass. Just cuz soldiers use it DOES NOT mean its an awesome piece of kit. you guys love to talk about the scar and compare it to the m16 for all its problems... the scar has been in development for over 7 years. And the people using em are still at completely diferent sides of the spectrum on like or dislike.

just like the poster above said they are just guns that are cheap enough and check all the boxes.

 

[fnbrowning]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You did say "Battle Rifle" right? Then get an M14 and do a few accuracy mods yourself, and never look back. There is a reason they are being used in theatre now. The government has taken our money and done the research already, on what is the best "Battle Rifle", so follow their lead. </div></div>

And the OP DID say battle rifle. And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.

The M14M1A is certainly a fine <span style="font-style: italic">battle rifle </span>as Mr. M14 points out.

To be fair, we have to remind you of another renowned <span style="font-style: italic">battle rifle</span>:

FN-FAL
Cheap and readily available spare parts and accessories. Many good manufacturers to choose from, and even the low-end parts guns can be improved to an acceptable quality by a good FALsmith for not that much money. Very ergonomic (at least if you get a light-barreled one), very reliable, good <span style="font-style: italic">combat accuracy</span>.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok please for the love of god don't say cuz the military uses something means its bad ass. Just cuz soldiers use it DOES NOT mean its an awesome piece of kit. you guys love to talk about the scar and compare it to the m16 for all its problems... the scar has been in development for over 7 years. And the people using em are still at completely diferent sides of the spectrum on like or dislike.

just like the poster above said they are just guns that are cheap enough and check all the boxes.

</div></div>

But... But... I saw on an episode about Seal Team 6 on the Oxygen channel that they use it and they can take out combatants at over 2 miles away with them! I just bought 3?! You LIE... YOU LIE!!!

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You did say "Battle Rifle" right? Then get an M14 and do a few accuracy mods yourself, and never look back. There is a reason they are being used in theatre now. The government has taken our money and done the research already, on what is the best "Battle Rifle", so follow their lead. </div></div>

All true except the Get an M14 part. The reason the M14 still exists is that there aren't enough M110s and Mk17s to go around. If there were, the M14s would have all been on their way to Korea or South America by now.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And the OP DID say battle rifle. And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.
</div></div>

Then you better throw the AK-47 in there. It's the most commonly used "Battle Rifle" in the world. I don't think there's anyone that could disagree it's battle tested and proven.

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

The AK-47 is an assault rifle, not a "battle rifle", therefore is not relevant to this discussion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And the OP DID say battle rifle. And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.
</div></div>

Then you better throw the AK-47 in there. It's the most commonly used "Battle Rifle" in the world. I don't think there's anyone that could disagree it's battle tested and proven. </div></div>

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

My vote goes to the LMT MWS. I am not sure if Larue or GAP are ISO certified or conduct proof testing and MPI every weapon system like what LMT, FN, Colt, etc does. I believe to make it to "battle rifle" status that it at the very least it has to have the above criteria. As with out the above bare minimum you will never see those systems in mass quantity in battle. GAP from my understanding is simply an Assembler when it comes to the GAP-10, they do no not make anything on the GAP-10 but simply assemble the parts. What I believe sets GAP apart from other AR builds is the Attention to detail that goes into the build. However I do not see anything that GAP does that someone at home could not do.(when it comes to ARs). However if you want to sell your home build custom AR it will never sell as much as if it was Marked GAP on the receiver. As we all know GAP standards when it comes to accuracy, but who knows the standards of a home builder. Anyhow just my two cents...

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle



Then you better throw the AK-47 in there. It's the most commonly used "Battle Rifle" in the world. I don't think there's anyone that could disagree it's battle tested and proven. [/quote]

WHAT BROKER SAYS IS CORRECT......Parts and ammo outa any country in the world....
bill larson

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

For my job our Academy class was the last to have M14 rifles for drill (2004/2005 time frame). I saw beautiful Winchester, Springfield, H&R, TRW full auto M14's that we used for dropping on asphalt, twirling in the air and "finding the balance of the piece" for punishment. $20K (?) rifles that the state saw fit to let us trash. The Army took them all back right after our graduation and they probably now serve honorably overseas. The M14 is a great rifle but alot of what it is is very similar to my Garand with better accuracy. My other rifles are Springfield 03's. I'm looking for something of a newer design with an eye towards November and the possibility things we get now we cant get later unless we are buying them back from the Mexican drug cartels.

Everything to me says buy the GAP. An 18 inch barrel should be a compromise of accuracy and portability (though my shooting never intends for it to be "ported"). I want an FDE/Coyote finish, Magpul stock, because of where I live I have to think about the end of barrel treatment, I think I saw Knights has BUIS similar to the SCAR irons. Optics would be cause for more research and handwringing - it wouldnt be an ACOG though for the GAP-10.

My intent for the rifle is shooting off a mat at NRA targets. 300 yards is what I have readily available. I may get to try 600 once in awhile. I want the capability to use the rifle at for fun position matches - prone, sitting, offhand with iron sights - loose NRA rules. I want accuracy to know that missed shots are me not the equipment (I'm able to currently blame the age and materials of my current rifles but reality is its probably me). I want something hardy so that with my limited time I can spend it shooting and not maintaining.

Not ever having fondled a GAP (or Larue for that matter) the only thing I question is the front rail. That GAP front end looks very bulky where as the Larue is rounded underneath and appears more "holdable" when shooting from hand rest with shooting glove and riflemans sling.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuietShootr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AK-47 is an assault rifle, not a "battle rifle", therefore is not relevant to this discussion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And the OP DID say battle rifle. And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.
</div></div>

Then you better throw the AK-47 in there. It's the most commonly used "Battle Rifle" in the world. I don't think there's anyone that could disagree it's battle tested and proven. </div></div> </div></div>

Aah... but he said the definition is "combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance". Is there any of those 3 that you feel the AK-47 is not?

 

[redirt78]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the OP DID say battle rifle.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not</span>. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.

</div></div>
He said "battle rifle", GAP10, OBR, SCAR and a bunch of other shit. <span style="color: #CC0000">He has no idea what he wants to</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">"fill that niche in his safe"</span>. Hell he's not even sure what "niche" he wants to fill. Maybe <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> should read up.

 

[Tdkps]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

About optics, many people run a Nightforce F1 and US Optics 3.8-22x ERGO and those should cover your shooting up to 1000 yards. About the KAC BUIS, the 200-600m is pretty good.

The GAP-10 is ergonomic and handles pretty well, it's not front heavy and if you handle one and think it is, you can always use a heavier stock to balance it. Offhand with the GAP-10 is not uncomfortable at all, and if you buy one with a 16" barrel, it'll feel like you're handling a carbine with an upper that will usually fit your hand very nicely. Don't forget you can add a foregrip to it.

-TDKPS

 

[fnbrowning]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the OP DID say battle rifle.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not</span>. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.

</div></div>
He said "battle rifle", GAP10, OBR, SCAR and a bunch of other shit. <span style="color: #CC0000">He has no idea what he wants to</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">"fill that niche in his safe"</span>. Hell he's not even sure what "niche" he wants to fill. Maybe <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> should read up. </div></div>

I added to the discussion with two suggestions. You have added nothing except an attack on another member. Back it down or take this to IM.

 

[Tdkps]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

@redirt78 He's asking for a new semi that he'll love the looks, enjoy to shoot and that can take a lot of punishment while maintaining a competition-like precision. He may not have been precise enough to explain what he wanted in his first post, but hell, that's what we're here for. Isn't it?

EDIT: Grammar fixes

-TDKPS

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the OP DID say battle rifle.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not</span>. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.

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He said "battle rifle", GAP10, OBR, SCAR and a bunch of other shit. <span style="color: #CC0000">He has no idea what he wants to</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">"fill that niche in his safe"</span>. Hell he's not even sure what "niche" he wants to fill. Maybe <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> should read up. </div></div>

Actually after seeing your post its going to be a Mini-14 .223 with the light weight scope set up. It wasnt one of the 3 rifles I was comparing but if you recommend it I'll give it a try. Thank you.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
FN-FAL
Cheap and readily available spare parts and accessories. Many good manufacturers to choose from, and even the low-end parts guns can be improved to an acceptable quality by a good FALsmith for not that much money. Very ergonomic (at least if you get a light-barreled one), very reliable, good <span style="font-style: italic">combat accuracy</span>. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (Note - not really interested in getting an FAL, Armalite, et al).
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I backed it down, just think you should read before you give suggestions. He said that he has no interest in a FAL. Strike 1. The GAP10 was one of the top 3 on his list so people who read the post said "yeah get that" and you called them out for suggesting it... Strike 2. No pm's necessary. I will leave with my suggestion. Get the GAP10. You will love it and it will take more abuse than you'll likely give it, if it doesn't they will fix it. If you feel like it you can pull the scope off and run irons sights and do a mag dump every once in a while to get the battle rifle feel.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">And the OP DID say battle rifle.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">And y'all who are pushing high $$ precision semi-auto rifles better go back and read what a Battle Rifle" is, as is not</span>. "Battle Rifle" = combat accuracy, reliability, & ease of maintenance.

</div></div>
He said "battle rifle", GAP10, OBR, SCAR and a bunch of other shit. <span style="color: #CC0000">He has no idea what he wants to</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">"fill that niche in his safe"</span>. Hell he's not even sure what "niche" he wants to fill. Maybe <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> should read up. </div></div>

Actually after seeing your post its going to be a Mini-14 .223 with the light weight scope set up. It wasnt one of the 3 rifles I was comparing but if you recommend it I'll give it a try. Thank you. </div></div>Haha, right on man. Good to see a sense of humor every now and then. I erased that post though cause someone didn't like it. Good luck deciding on your purchase. You will probably like any of the main three you listed but I'd choose the GAP.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssatt68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pmclaine,
Read this thread. Ryan and I were not paid to conduct this test.
If I were to take a personnally owned weapon into harms way I would order a GAP 10.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...703#Post3035703 </div></div>

That's good info ^ by some guys who know what they are doing. Not to mention if you ever did have a problem with your gun you could contact a few of the guys who build them through PM's on here (which I think is cool). You can't do that with the others you mentioned.

 

[Southpawmark]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I have to agree, I've owned the Scar, the R.E.P.R., & the OBR. Then I ordered the LMT308MWSE and this semi auto rifle gives me very tight sub moa's with virtually all ammo. I installed the Nightforce 5.5-22x56 NXS ZS w/ NP-R1 and the Aimpoint Micro T1 and this is by far the best out of box production semi auto rifle I've owned to date.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

Some say that the PWS version is great for a feed it anything type of AR and also has respectable accuracy. I think it has a floating piston along the same lines as an AK's system.

Here is a full blown review on the 5.56 version, one of the best I have seen. Tons of info on the PWS.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">PWS MK114</span> <---- LINK

Piston setup ^

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Once we were finished playing a bit... I went out to 109 yards... 100 meters... and put five M855 rounds through it, off of a bag rest, laying prone. This rifle has a MILSPEC trigger in it, Semi Auto, as comes from PWS. The MILSPEC fire control group is NOTHING to write home about, but I was able to pull out a decent 5 round group, at 100 meters... on a 6" Shoot and See. The Sight is an ACOG TA31F and it was VERY windy today.

Todd is sending me an SSA trigger group for this puppy... so, stay tuned. I plan on putting one of my 10x SS's on here, and laying down some serious groups, to see how this barrel shoots.

So far, I like!!!!

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That is with the mil-spec trigger and ACOG ^. Like I said, this is the 5.56 version. I'd imagine their .308 is good also.




Red Jacket Firearms has their new game changer piston AR in the works also

Joke ^

 

[ssatt68]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

Could also look at a USO SN/3 1.8-10. Which is on SS short list of things to get

 

[BCP]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not ever having fondled a GAP (or Larue for that matter) the only thing I question is the front rail. That GAP front end looks very bulky where as the Larue is rounded underneath and appears more "holdable" when shooting from hand rest with shooting glove and riflemans sling. </div></div>

LMT, GAP and Larue OBR are all rifle length and monolithic (I think) shouldn't be much different unless your hands are picky. You could also build something using a mega monolithic upper/lower whole rifle would be under 2k. You could conceivably run every single one of those with a GI web sling probably easiest with an A2 stock if you do that.

Then there's the M1A, I see lots of old farts at the range using those prone with a sling.

 

[trident1982]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nightforcer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to agree, I've owned the Scar, the R.E.P.R., & the OBR. Then I ordered the LMT308MWSE and this semi auto rifle gives me very tight sub moa's with virtually all ammo. I installed the Nightforce 5.5-22x56 NXS ZS w/ NP-R1 and the Aimpoint Micro T1 and this is by far the best out of box production semi auto rifle I've owned to date. </div></div>

Nice reply, and while I just keep my strong feelings in regards to the MWS to myself, I felt compelled to agree with you in regards to the fact that the MWSE w/ 16" CL barrel...not the MoD Rock 5R SST barrel...literally shoots every type of ammo awesomely. This rifle shoots every single SP .308 under 1.5"(10rd groups). That to me has been quite surprising...welcomed of course

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Wants to buy a .308 semi auto battle rifle

I'm not sure of the skills but this is one set of results for a shooter behind a SCAR-17 for his second time with a scope at 100 yards.

Is this typical? I'd imagine with the cost a SCAR is not a first rifle for someone.

This is what I got out first time with this 1903, 30-06, rested on a block of wood, using the fold up leaf peep and front blade at 100yards. 6.25 black, 3.25 ten ring using surplus Korean, KA 73, M2 ball.

The middle rifle was used.

If the SCAR cant meet/beat that it would not be on the list. Is it unfair to try and compare a 70 year old bolt rifle to a new semi auto? Its not the same as comparing a M16A2 to a M40A1. I am making some allowances for time, materials, technology in the first case.