Warning- Anschutz 54 rifles not safe to dry fire

[bm11]

Well, I wanted to share, to hopefully spare someone else the headache and heartache I went through last night. My new-to-me Anschutz 1827b (54 action) came in, and I was very excited. Thinking that most modern rimfires have controlled firing pin protrusion, and not being new to rimfires, I dry fired away blissfully enjoying the fan-fucking-tastic 5020 trigger, adjusting it to my tastes, dry firing some more, repeat repeat repeat.

After pulling the trigger probably at least 100 times, I happen to look in the open action and notice an indentation at 12:00 that wasn't there previously. FUCK! The barrel face had been peened by firing pin contact and the chamber was now slightly deformed. Doing a bit of research, I couldn't find anything definitive on the web about it, so I figured I would make a post about it. On Anschutz own website it does mention that an empty case "should" be used but it doesn't say specifically that damage can result.

The resolution is that I ordered a .22lr chamber iron. From what I understand, these repairs are not that big of a deal, and hopefully my accuracy isn't effected after the repair. I wanted to give everyone a heads up to hopefully prevent this from hapening to someone else.

-Bob

 

[Jared91]

I was under the assumption that you really aren't supposed to dry fire any rimfire?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[steve123]

Well, I wanted to share, to hopefully spare someone else the headache and heartache I went through last night. My new-to-me Anschutz 1827b (54 action) came in, and I was very excited. Thinking that most modern rimfires have controlled firing pin protrusion, and not being new to rimfires, I dry fired away blissfully enjoying the fan-fucking-tastic 5020 trigger, adjusting it to my tastes, dry firing some more, repeat repeat repeat.

After pulling the trigger probably at least 100 times, I happen to look in the open action and notice an indentation at 12:00 that wasn't there previously. FUCK! The barrel face had been peened by firing pin contact and the chamber was now slightly deformed. Doing a bit of research, I couldn't find anything definitive on the web about it, so I figured I would make a post about it. On Anschutz own website it does mention that an empty case "should" be used but it doesn't say specifically that damage can result.

The resolution is that I ordered a .22lr chamber iron. From what I understand, these repairs are not that big of a deal, and hopefully my accuracy isn't effected after the repair. I wanted to give everyone a heads up to hopefully prevent this from hapening to someone else.

-Bob

I cringe when I accidentally or unintentionally dry fire my 1827 Fortner. Anschutz includes one extra firing pin with the 1827F, that alone makes me nervous, LOL. They also include a dryfire adapter that can be installed on the bolt but it's kind of a hassle to put on. I wish they had included a tool to pull back the firing pin spring also. I tried some of those blaze orange plastic dry fire rounds but the 1827 just breaks them immediately.

Sorry to hear about the peened chamber face. I hope that tool works out for you! You must be sick about discovering that problem. I know I would be.

 

[bjay]

Its a crime dry firing any 22s.. i git anschutz 64 i proly dry fired it 50-10tymes.. but 100? Yhats a litle bit much in one ocasio

 

[bm11]

Sorry to hear about the peened chamber face. I hope that tool works out for you! You must be sick about discovering that problem. I know I would be.

Yeah, sick is the right word. I'm lucky I got to sleep last night.

 

[n64atlas]

Just get one of these. It will push the metal back in place.
Then check your firing pin protrusion. It should be no more than 0.060.
.22 CHAMBER IRONING TOOL | Brownells

 

[bm11]

Just get one of these. It will push the metal back in place.
Then check your firing pin protrusion. It should be no more than 0.060.
.22 CHAMBER IRONING TOOL | Brownells

Yes I have one being overnighted.

 

[lash]

I've read not to dry fire .22s and mostly don't do it, but never really gave any thought (or heard) as to why it was a bad idea. I'm kinda sick having heard what it did to your fine rifle and hope that it irons out OK.

I know that I've occasionally dry fired my .22s, but not as a matter of course and mostly just as an afterthought. This will be saved as a lesson I will not forget. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[BigJimFish]

Yeah, sick is the right word. I'm lucky I got to sleep last night.

I feel a little sick just hearing about it.

I remember reading a warning about dry firing in my 1710's (also a 54 action but without the excellent trigger) manual. I recall something about a dry fire firing pin that can be purchased. I never really looked into it as I don't have one of those fancy dry fire laser training systems. If I ever get one I probably will get an adapter. Up to this point I have just used spent casings. Those little snap caps are useful to test magazine feeding but they don't last long under dry fire practice.

 

[gszeto99]

Well, I wanted to share, to hopefully spare someone else the headache and heartache I went through last night. My new-to-me Anschutz 1827b (54 action) came in, and I was very excited. Thinking that most modern rimfires have controlled firing pin protrusion, and not being new to rimfires, I dry fired away blissfully enjoying the fan-fucking-tastic 5020 trigger, adjusting it to my tastes, dry firing some more, repeat repeat repeat.

After pulling the trigger probably at least 100 times, I happen to look in the open action and notice an indentation at 12:00 that wasn't there previously. FUCK! The barrel face had been peened by firing pin contact and the chamber was now slightly deformed. Doing a bit of research, I couldn't find anything definitive on the web about it, so I figured I would make a post about it. On Anschutz own website it does mention that an empty case "should" be used but it doesn't say specifically that damage can result.

The resolution is that I ordered a .22lr chamber iron. From what I understand, these repairs are not that big of a deal, and hopefully my accuracy isn't effected after the repair. I wanted to give everyone a heads up to hopefully prevent this from hapening to someone else.

-Bob

I hope you get it all sorted out. If you do want to continue to dry fire your anschutz you should get the "dry fire" firing pin. Top small bore shooters dry fire all the time and is a great way to improve trigger control among other fundamentals. This is why anschutz made a firing pin specifically for dry firing.

 

[bm11]

Good news- I ran a cleaning brush into the chamber, and found that the chamber does not appear to be deformed after all. There is a very slight dimple from the firing pin, but nothing of concern.

I'll run the chamber iron through tomorrow just to make sure that it is round, then head off to the range and see how this rig shoots.

 

[Dan1122]

Definitely get or make the pin. Champions Choice has them: Champion's Choice - Detail1 - 001227 - ANS 1807-T12 DRY FIRE PIN W/SPRING W/RET-1800,1900,2000 SERI - Rifle - Champion's Choice

 

[Emouse]

Sorry to state the obvious but the heading should have read "WARNING DUMB ASS SHOOTER". This really isn't an Anschutz problem but one of shooter stupidity when it comes to rimfire.

Hopefully no harm is done and the rifle will give you many tens of thousands of rounds of pleasure.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Sorry to state the obvious but the heading should have read "WARNING DUMB ASS SHOOTER". This really isn't an Anschutz problem but one of shooter stupidity when it comes to rimfire.

Hopefully no harm is done and the rifle will give you many tens of thousands of rounds of pleasure.

Harsh and insensitive. We all make mistakes bud.

 

[bm11]

Sorry to state the obvious but the heading should have read "WARNING DUMB ASS SHOOTER". This really isn't an Anschutz problem but one of shooter stupidity when it comes to rimfire.

Hopefully no harm is done and the rifle will give you many tens of thousands of rounds of pleasure.

Ha, well I guess "if the shoe fits..."

Seriously though I thought the whole "don't dry fire rimfires" thing was from years and years ago, and that all modern rimfires were safe to dry fire. I know that I ran into this issue before when fixing a broken Ruger MkII, but in that case, the firing pin over travel stop had fallen out and I hadn't noticed. I've never noticed any sign of firing pin/striker contact on any of my other rimfires (and they all get dry fired a fair amount,) so I was fairly trust worthy going into this.

In any case, it should be good as new once I iron the chamber, however, I thought I would share in case there were any other "dumb ass shooters." If nothing else, it does an ego good to be shamed on the Internet every so often, and being that I boycott Facebook, THIS is my selected venue.

-Bob

 

[justin amateur]

Never liked the idea of steel on steel impact, so I use these
to release the firing pin before storing the rimfires I use.

They're cheap and the same rim diameter as a 22.
The extractors on all my 22's eject these plastic mollies
same as a typical brass. Gotta protect my investments.

Get some funny looks at the range when I pull back the bolt,
a yellow bit of plastic comes flying out and the motion/color catches their eye.

 

[R.Walters]

Glad I clicked on this. I did not know you couldn't dry fire rimfires. It makes sense tho

 

[komishe]

Sorry to state the obvious but the heading should have read "WARNING DUMB ASS SHOOTER". This really isn't an Anschutz problem but one of shooter stupidity when it comes to rimfire.

Hopefully no harm is done and the rifle will give you many tens of thousands of rounds of pleasure.

Well that was helpful...........

Bob, It hurts my heart a little bit reading this thread. Most would keep this shameful secret to themselves
Good looking out for your fellow shooters.

A little prayer went out for you and your rifle this a.m. I hope it shoots to your expectations.

 

[CMH]

I have seen some Anschutzs that have ungodly long firing pins - to the point where they severely dent and nearly pierce the rims on fired cases. My 54 was that way - I shortened it to a normal strike before taking up dry firing which was never an issue. I have dry fired it hundreds if not thousands of times with no ill effects. I am sure with the longer pin I would have severely peened it. Mine is an early one - early-mid 5 digit SN range.

 

[hahco]

A CZ rimfire can be dry fired, and a ruger rimfire can be dry fired. I have dry fired my Savage rimfire with no damage, but I don't make a practice out of it. Make your own decisions about how comfortable you are with it, but it's not a universal rule that rimfires cannot be dry-fired. Almost all of these designs incorporate some sort of cross-bolt that will stop the firing pin from impacting the breech face with enough force to cause damage.

BTW, I can't speak to Anschutzs because I don't own one, but my point is that the OP is not some kind of idiot bc he dry-fired one.

 

[lash]

Never liked the idea of steel on steel impact, so I use these
to release the firing pin before storing the rimfires I use.

They're cheap and the same rim diameter as a 22.
The extractors on all my 22's eject these plastic mollies
same as a typical brass. Gotta protect my investments.

Get some funny looks at the range when I pull back the bolt,
a yellow bit of plastic comes flying out and the motion/color catches their eye.

I like this idea! That's using the old noggin for something besides a hat-rack.

 

[Merlin O]

Ha, well I guess "if the shoe fits..."

Seriously though I thought the whole "don't dry fire rimfires" thing was from years and years ago, and that all modern rimfires were safe to dry fire. I know that I ran into this issue before when fixing a broken Ruger MkII, but in that case, the firing pin over travel stop had fallen out and I hadn't noticed. I've never noticed any sign of firing pin/striker contact on any of my other rimfires (and they all get dry fired a fair amount,) so I was fairly trust worthy going into this.

In any case, it should be good as new once I iron the chamber, however, I thought I would share in case there were any other "dumb ass shooters." If nothing else, it does an ego good to be shamed on the Internet every so often, and being that I boycott Facebook, THIS is my selected venue.

-Bob

As another voice in this...... My 1427 firing pin does not touch the barrel when dry fired nor does my 1712.... My full on custom $$$$ gun is the one my gunsmith (the builder of 100s of high end rimfires) told me to dry fire with no worries...

 

[Badshot308]

I would take the rifle out and shoot it before using that chamber iron. If it shoots fine, leave it alone. Those Anschutz chambers are tighter and shorter than your standard chambers. You may actually enlarge it without knowing it by accident. I've tried the Traditions aluminum snap caps in my 1913 and they were noticeably engraved by the rifling. They were definitely not made for a match chamber. I won't put anything in my chamber other than fired brass to dry fire.

 

[justin amateur]

I've been told that dry firing using empty brass can be a problem.
The residue left from burnt primer and powder is knocked loose
and dumped in chamber throat. Creating an abrasive deposit
that will cause greater/faster wear in that area. That's why I use
the plastic drywall anchors. No contact with the leade rifling,
clean, non abrasive and protects the firing pin and breech face.
As a plus, seeing that bit of yellow when closing the bolt for the last time
tells me the firearm is definitely safe and ready for storage.

 

[Badshot308]

That residue is put into the chamber and bore every time a round is fired. If it was as abrasive as some people think, you wouldn't have all these match rifles out there with these extremely high round counts still delivering excellent accuracy. Anschutz themselves recommends an empty shell for dry firing J.G. ANSCHÜTZ GmbH & Co. KG - FAQs The dry wall anchor is a good alternative, but I would rotate or replace the anchor frequently to prevent a firearm with a long firing pin from splitting the plastic and damaging the chamber. Even empty brass can't be left in the same position during an extended dry firing session.

 

[justin amateur]

That residue is put into the chamber and bore every time a round is fired.

I used the same argument and was told that the problem is not the usual explosive debris,
but the burnt on solids left in the fired brass being knocked loose and out by the impact of the firing pin.
Those are larger chunks of grit that can score the chamber and bore. I'm no expert, but it made sense.

rotate or replace the anchor frequently

I replace every trip. A box of 100 costs about 4 bucks.
The ejected molly ends up on the deck then in the trash.

 

[Onehunglow]

Sorry to state the obvious but the heading should have read "WARNING DUMB ASS SHOOTER". This really isn't an Anschutz problem but one of shooter stupidity when it comes to rimfire.

Hopefully no harm is done and the rifle will give you many tens of thousands of rounds of pleasure.

Totally uncalled for. Poor manners in the least. On many boards you would get a warning or banned for a week.



Can a shooter use a fired 22 rimfire case for dry firing? Its seems to me that would work if it can be chambered easliy.

 

[Jared91]

Totally uncalled for. Poor manners in the least. On many boards you would get a warning or banned for a week.



Can a shooter use a fired 22 rimfire case for dry firing? Its seems to me that would work if it can be chambered easliy.

I would think you would have to rotate the casing around at each strike of the hammer due to the impression left.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RTH1800]

I had an issue with FP breakage with a dry fired RF.

 

[Onehunglow]

I used those cheap plastic snap caps. They last about five pulls. I've used old cases and the seem to work as long as they are rotated to a new spot. Sometimes they are a little tough to chamber but not god awful bad.

 

[Pappasniper]

Great thread. I just re scoped my A 1416. I appreciate your sharing, because I just read on Anschutz website it was OK to dry fire the 54 action. Then didnt say anything about the 64., just it was beefier ....

 

[Badshot308]

Can you provide a link to that info on the Anschutz website?

 

[Grump]

It all depends on the firearm.

AND whether everything was built right.

My 64 action doesn't strike the chamber edge. But Anschutz (and my Dad) recommended using fired cases so I did and do that most of the time when dry firing.

So I get to BYU years later and a friend and I start a shooting club when the asinine light Colonel in charge of Army ROTC pulls the plug on the rifle team. Think it was the first meeting, one of our Freshmen mentions his .22 bolt gun doesn't always extract well.

We get together and I look at it--an older Remmie or Winchester of fairly pedestrian pedigree and a steel 5-shot magazine. It's a step or two down from something like a 513T. Sure enough, there's a big booger in the metal at 12 o'clock.

So I get thinking how I can help with my Dad's garage and all those tools and goodies somewhere around 400 miles away...pull a bolt out of the bicycle or car kit or toolbox or whatever. Think I had to borrow a drill. Grab a file from the toolbox and whirl away.

It was a rough and nasty chamber ironing tool, but it worked great. Might have done a second rifle with it somewhere along the way. Still have that think with my gun junk.

Use yours with confidence. It is smooth and you will have the bump down to zero effect on extraction well before enlarging the rest of the chamber mouth. I believe it's best to stop just before the bump is completely gone just to be sure. Then you can choose between leaving just a hint of it there, so your extracted cases might have a faint line as a reminder of your good fortune following bad judgment, or maybe dressing it out with some carefully chosen abrasive (like maybe 600 grit wet-or-dry wrapped around a 0.20-ish steel rod) carefully applied nearly parallel to the top of the chamber wall.

The mistake, and the damage, is most likely not nearly as bad as you've made it sound.

All that said, I'm pretty sure my three friends with 54 actions dry fired them all the time without fired cases in place. I wouldn't be surprised if yours has a firing pin that's a bitty bit too long, or a misplaced surface where it hits inside the channel to get stopped.

 

[Cartman]

I was under the assumption that you really aren't supposed to dry fire any rimfire?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

Same thing I've heard over the years. That said, I could see myself doing it anyway thinking it was old thinking or not that big of a deal one way or another. I have some .22 dry fire plastic "snap cap" type things but have not bothered to use them. I will now, so thanks for the warning.

 

[MG-70]

I'm sorry to hear it and hope all is good with the chamber.

Dry-firing makes for good practice, but I never do it on a rimfire without said plastic anchors or a spent casing, even if the manufacturer says its ok to do so (I have too many rimfires to remember which are ok to do so and which aren't). I even try to always have snap caps on centerfires if I'm going to be dry-firing repeatedly, as in practicing. If you're worried about dislodging residue from the fired case into the chamber and bore, you can always stuff some cotton in there before inserting into the chamber. And rotate the snap caps, spent casings, and plastic anchors on rimfires.

You can find an image of a properly adjusted Anschutz 54 firing pin online. I believe I found it at rimfirecentral, which is the best source for RF info. on the net that I have found (have frequented for years).

Good with with the Anschutz!

 

[Sasuke]

I've been told that dry firing using empty brass can be a problem.
The residue left from burnt primer and powder is knocked loose
and dumped in chamber throat. Creating an abrasive deposit
that will cause greater/faster wear in that area. That's why I use
the plastic drywall anchors. No contact with the leade rifling,
clean, non abrasive and protects the firing pin and breech face.
As a plus, seeing that bit of yellow when closing the bolt for the last time
tells me the firearm is definitely safe and ready for storage.

Thats some good thinkin!

 

[Sasuke]

I was under the assumption that you really aren't supposed to dry fire any rimfire?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

YUP! Better safe than pregnant!

 

[WebWalker]

The rimfire benchrest experts recommend putting a wad of tissue in the fired case when testing rim crush to avoid that abrasive getting in the chamber.
Good tips Justin, thanks

 

[JG26_Irish]

I liked the idea of the poly anchors but think that the spent case is just as good. I was always told not to dry fire any rimfire rifle, but my IPSC range officer training forces me to want to do the unload & show clear/visually inspect gun clear/slide down/hammer down/holster(or case it for rifles), before declaring range to be clear. Old habits... So, when I am finished with a range session, I always drop the hammer on the rifle/pistol with barrel safely pointed down range, before putting it away just to be that little bit more safe. I figured that any cumulative damage that may occur is small risk when compared with the damage from any AD that might otherwise happen. It is a big trade off. I do not own any high dollar rimfires and would be sick if I had f-ed up an Annie from dry firing. I still cringe a little when I do it to my old cheap rimfires. Think I may adopt the poly anchor solution.

I have been impressed with some of the features in the new Savage B-mag (17WSM). It cocks the action on closing the bolt but when finished shooting, you can pull the trigger before closing the bolt and it does not cock the weapon. So, no need to dry fire as hammer is down on an empty chamber.

Irish

 

[boingk]

With rounds costing a few cents each why not just head to the range and practise?

I never have and never will dry fire a rimfire rifle because of their design. I will still not dry fire a centrefire rifle out of habit, also I still see no need to. If you need to release the firing pin prior to storage simply hold the trigger while closing the bolt. This renders the firearm safe - try pulling the trigger afterwards if you don't believe me.

- boingk

 

[JasonJ]

Of course you can dry fire Anschutz Match 54 rifles. Just buy a regular firing pin one and grind the point off. I've dry fired my 1913 free rifle thousands of times over the years without anything in the chamber and never had any damage.

I don't, however, dry fire my Match 64 actions any more than absolutely necessary. The firing pin design on the 64 action is rather weak -- especially compared to the 54 -- and older pins can break with no warning signs.

Jason

 

[IPSC]

Dry firing rimfires has been a well-known general point not to do. The idea being that it's a "rim" fire ('natch) and the firing pin can peen-over the edge of the chamber. That much is generally accepted.

The use of the #4 wall anchors is a good idea and I've been doing that for years....last a long time too, especially the yellow one's in the shown box from Home Depot. Seem to be rubbery/plastic and don't break apart or "take-set" too soon. Nice.

Some guys also cut a slit in a large rubber washer o-ring and simply put it over the exposed bolt cocking piece. When you dry-fire, the o-ring prevents the cocking piece/firing pin from contacting the breach face. See here from RFC website, post #12---->

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420811&highlight=o-ring

Recall also that the problem is much less if the gun in question has an "L" shaped firing pin....so the "L" shape of the pin hits an empty chamber far away (radially) from the edge of the chamber. See here how it's designed in a Walther PPK 22LR... I think the firing pin on a Savage MKII is the same-->





.

 

[Victor N TN]

You don't have to buy anything.

Hey guys. You don't have to buy anything. IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY PIENED YOUR BARREL FACE. I always pick up several of the empty cases I have shot, (old habit). When you want to dry fire, just be sure to put one in the chamber. I have old 22 boxes with empties sitting around everywhere in the reloading room. In the stuff where I sort ammo for small bore, I have sandwich bags labeled with which gun they were fired in.

Just put an already fired case in the chamber. Every 50 to 100 X pulling the trigger, rotate the case to a different spot. Problem solved.

 

[cjd223]

Justin, been using wall anchors for years. They work great.

 

[D_TROS]

Dang BM11 sorry to hear. I dry fire my 54 action all the time. My smith said no worries as it has been correctly smithed to allow it. Crazy the factory actions don't allow it without any alterations. I also dry fire my 40x rifles. No pinning whatsoever. Thought that the firing pin being "too long" was an issue long since addressed. Hope it doesn't effect your accuracy adversely.

Regards,
DT

 

[bm11]

As an update, I ironed the chamber and the rifle shoots lights out with no malfunctions of any sort. I shot a high .6" average for 6 consecutive 5 shot groups at 100 yards, (proof can be found in my rim fire group challenge thread,) so it is safe to say that no permanent damage was done.

In other news, jbell modified my spare firing pin to be a "dry fire pin." The overall length is short by .100" or so, and it takes seconds to swap the pins back and forth. With the dry fire pin in, I can practice and enjoy possibly the worlds finest trigger to my hearts content.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Glad it all worked out for you.

I knew you would like it once you got behind it. Any plans for the stock yet?

 

[bm11]

Glad it all worked out for you.

I knew you would like it once you got behind it. Any plans for the stock yet?

Once I get around it I'll send it to Mark Chesebro for a McMillan A5 inlet and bed job. The Eberlestock is probably great for biathlon, but sucks for "tactical" shooting. It's too light.

 

[darticus]

I have the same problem. Does this tool really work? Not very clear on how it works. Do you just put it in and turn the handle? What would a gun smith charge? Is it worth it to do it yourself? Thanks Ron

Just get one of these. It will push the metal back in place.
Then check your firing pin protrusion. It should be no more than 0.060.
.22 CHAMBER IRONING TOOL | Brownells