Watching the latest game of thrones happenings in DC

I'm hoping for a LePen win. Trump needs a fellow traveler. I don't want the CIA screwing it up like Obam hoped to do by meddling in the Netanyahu election.

Get Geert Wilders elected and have Frau Merkle back at home in her housecoat things may be looking pretty good as far as rolling back the World Federation.

Save globalization for when the aliens come from Mars to destroy earth and we wont be having social engineering decide who the haves and have nots are. That will be determined by Darwin and ability - like it should be.
 
I would answer anyone who has a problem with Trump talking to the Russians and even getting help from the Russians to GROW UP . Reagan worked a deal with the Iranians not to release the hostages until after the election . Reagan and Iran Contra . Slick Willy and an International arms trader wanted by Interpol and warned by the Secret Service not to let this guy in the White House . Yet he did . Slick Willy selling missile guidance technology to China ( really long story not conspiracy theory BS ) . Obama giving Iran ransom money . They all do shit that is left of the law . The reality is if Trump had not won ; There would be an ammo shortage of Biblical proportion , Firearms prices would be effin absurd , We would be on the verge of a shooting war in America , we might have even been at war by now , There would be an absurd tax on Ammo , Bill Clinton would be First skirt chaser , The National Anthem would be La Coocaracha , We working Americans would be digesting some new BS tax , you can fill in the rest . As for the MSM they are peddling lies and fanning the flames to hamstring Trump and further the Brown Shirt Bullshit . I think I may have just coined a new abbreviation . BSB ( Brown Shirt Bullshit ) . Anyway the left will do what ever they can to divide , disrupt and destroy this Country . No effin holds barred . They are not unlike Zombies . Single minded and unyielding . Don't buy into the bullshit and keep focused on turning this shit around .
 
I would answer anyone who has a problem with Trump talking to the Russians and even getting help from the Russians to GROW UP . Reagan worked a deal with the Iranians not to release the hostages until after the election . Reagan and Iran Contra . Slick Willy and an International arms trader wanted by Interpol and warned by the Secret Service not to let this guy in the White House . Yet he did . Slick Willy selling missile guidance technology to China ( really long story not conspiracy theory BS ) . Obama giving Iran ransom money . They all do shit that is left of the law . The reality is if Trump had not won ; There would be an ammo shortage of Biblical proportion , Firearms prices would be effin absurd , We would be on the verge of a shooting war in America , we might have even been at war by now , There would be an absurd tax on Ammo , Bill Clinton would be First skirt chaser , The National Anthem would be La Coocaracha , We working Americans would be digesting some new BS tax , you can fill in the rest . As for the MSM they are peddling lies and fanning the flames to hamstring Trump and further the Brown Shirt Bullshit . I think I may have just coined a new abbreviation . BSB ( Brown Shirt Bullshit ) . Anyway the left will do what ever they can to divide , disrupt and destroy this Country . No effin holds barred . They are not unlike Zombies . Single minded and unyielding . Don't buy into the bullshit and keep focused on turning this shit around .

Wouldnt that be BSBS?
 
The Russia / Trump thing is yet another reminder of how the vast majority of Americans willingly accept their spoonfed version of reality from those that wish to do them harm. Once again the CIA is caught manipulating a foreign election, and so few at home are able to put two and two together.

The world has been moving in a unified direction for 50 yrs, and the CIA has been on the bleeding edge of that change at the behest of the few the entire time. Yet, the braindead overlook the idea that factions of the US intelligence agencies are engaged in the same here at home, that these same factions are behind the Russia / Trump story; with the media (a CIA collaborator since the 1950s) as the principal propaganda tool.

Why does Shepard Smith not rail against this? Why don’t any of the “established” Journalist? We know the answer....

I read the 7 page report from wikileaks and all I can see is an analyst request for information on the various candidates positions and thoughts regarding issues of global interest. The request specifically states that the analysts want the info to help guide our diplomats on their counterparts ideologies, presumably to put them in a better position to negotiate and deal with whomever won the french election. Otherwise known as exactly the CIA's job.

What are you seeing that I am not which supports the comment highlighted in bold above?

Not that the CIA doesn't interfere and/or rig foreign elections, of course they do. It's an implied part of their job, shaping the world to better suit the wants/needs of the US and our interests.
If this Russian interference in our election is real, the question isn't "was it right for the FSB to do this?", the question is "did anyone from our side participate?". The FSB did what they are supposed to do. Anyone from our side that facilitated it is guilty of treason, I don't give a shit what side of the isle they are on. It also doesn't make a damn bit of difference what other politicians did what/when/why/with whom. Patriotism and treason is not a tit for tat game, both/any/all should be brought up on charges for any incident in which a US citizen conspires with a foreign govt. to undermine the interests of this country. Such a person should rightly be labeled a traitor, regardless of their affiliations/position/opponent/or reasons.

Anyone who can't get behind that, has allowed their politics to obscure their morality.
 
I am not exactly sure what you are asking me. I can not imagine you are asking me to cite examples of the CIA manipulating foreign elections, as a simple google search would reveal a litany of articles on the subject. Regarding your statement that The request specifically states that the analysts want the info to help guide our diplomats on their counterparts ideologies, presumably to put them in a better position to negotiate and deal with whomever won the french election. Otherwise known as exactly the CIA's job. Surely, you don’t believe it is as innocuous as you have written - or maybe it is what I am reading into what you have written. As I understand what you have written - the CIA is simply collecting background info on the candidates, while maintaining a policy of non interference, allowing the citizens of the subject nation to freely vote the candidates or policies up or down as they see fit, and then use the backgrounder info to advise US Policy makers of their findings, who in turn negotiate from the starting point of whatever the result is post election - which is absolute horseshit as to how it actually happens.

Do I think Russia tried to influence the elections? Don’'t know. If Russia / China / Mexico / North Ko / Saudi / Israel’i intelligence services were doing their job - you bet your ass they at least tried. And at minimum we should round those fuckers up as well as anyone that assisted them and drop chunks of meat in a hole. However, the bigger issue which seems to escape most Americans is that there are at least factions of the US intelligence service branches, likely DOD, and most probably other alphabets that are involved in a domestic conspiracy. Again, the fact is that the world has been moving in concert for 50 yrs, billions of dollars have been spent, society around the globe has been transformed, wealth has funneled up and is now concentrated in the hands of the tiniest fraction of the population, and the CIA has been a leading instrument of change the whole time. One would have to suspend all logic to believe that those that enjoy this level of power and wealth are not going to use every means at their disposal to ensure that the plans they have called for are not upended.
 
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I am not exactly sure what you are asking me. I can not imagine you are asking me to cite examples of the CIA manipulating foreign elections, as a simple google search would reveal a litany of articles on the subject. Regarding your statement that The request specifically states that the analysts want the info to help guide our diplomats on their counterparts ideologies, presumably to put them in a better position to negotiate and deal with whomever won the french election. Otherwise known as exactly the CIA's job. Surely, you don’t believe it is as innocuous as you have written - or maybe it is what I am reading into what you have written. As I understand what you have written - the CIA is simply collecting background info on the candidates, while maintaining a policy of non interference, allowing the citizens of the subject nation to freely vote the candidates or policies up or down as they see fit, and then use the backgrounder info to advise US Policy makers of their findings, who in turn negotiate from the starting point of whatever the result is post election - which is absolute horseshit as to how it actually happens.

Do I think Russia tried to influence the elections? Don’'t know. If Russia / China / Mexico / North Ko / Saudi / Israel’i intelligence services were doing their job - you bet your ass they at least tried. And at minimum we should round those fuckers up as well as anyone that assisted them and drop chunks of meat in a hole. However, the bigger issue which seems to escape most Americans is that there are at least factions of the US intelligence service branches, likely DOD, and most probably other alphabets that are involved in a domestic conspiracy. Again, the fact is that the world has been moving in concert for 50 yrs, billions of dollars have been spent, society around the globe has been transformed, wealth has funneled up and is now concentrated in the hands of the tiniest fraction of the population, and the CIA has been a leading instrument of change the whole time. One would have to suspend all logic to believe that those that enjoy this level of power and wealth are not going to use every means at their disposal to ensure that the plans they have called for are not upended.

No, I'm not asking you "to cite examples of the CIA manipulating foreign elections". I'm asking what you read in that specific leak that backs up your statement of "Once again the CIA is caught manipulating a foreign election", as I don't see any evidence of them being "caught" doing anything more than gathering intelligence. I don't need examples of them interfering with foreign elections, I plainly state in my second paragraph that they are practically paid to do so. But that known history doesn't back up your current claim. I thought you might have some evidence that I wasn't seeing, but all you have supplied is supposition. Your belief may well be correct, but your statement is still false, as they were not "caught" doing shit (this time).

As to your second paragraph; you make a profound claim, and then back it up with disparate facts and some basic human nature.

"Again, the fact is that the world has been moving in concert for 50 yrs, billions of dollars have been spent, society around the globe has been transformed, wealth has funneled up and is now concentrated in the hands of the tiniest fraction of the population, and the CIA has been a leading instrument of change the whole time. One would have to suspend all logic to believe that those that enjoy this level of power and wealth are not going to use every means at their disposal to ensure that the plans they have called for are not upended."

All true, though the bold portion is not necessarily related to the other statements. But you use that section to assert the claim "there are at least factions of the US intelligence service branches, likely DOD, and most probably other alphabets that are involved in a domestic conspiracy", which doesn't provide evidence of a damn thing. You claim that this knowledge escapes most of us. Well, give me some verifiable facts. Until you do, it's just your belief.

And don't pull that crap about "not having the time to educate us, go investigate for yourself". That's the same crap every crackpot tinfoil hat wearing mofo has used since the dawn of time. I'm not trying to antagonize you, I'm just tired of the hearsay and innuendo. You made a claim, back it up.
 
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You’re hitting on one of the primary divides in our country today. To some people, their faith in Gov is absolute except in the rare event that incontrovertible proof is found; and even then their faith is renewed b/c "the system worked". To others, the historical track record combined with a consistent pattern of activity leads them to say that abuse is present. Thus, in your opinion since I can not point to the definitive smoking gun, somehow - I am to believe that they maintained neutrality in the French elections, when historically they never have. And furthermore, b/c you don’t see the link between the changes that have occurred over the last 50 yrs and the US intelligence agencies - they aren’t a part of that either.

Here are just a few examples of what I am talking about:

Fast N Furious - if one listens to the MSM one would be led to believe that FnF was about gun running. Yet below the surface you realize that at the same time two significant events were taking place in Mexico: A) the cartels went to war and power was consolidated B) the break up of Pemex and selling off of oil rights

Syria - again if one listens to the MSM one would conclude that Assad is a bad man. Yet if you dig deeper you realize that SA and Qatar have spent more than $1B to foment war, you realize that Syria is critical to (proposed) new pipeline routes, that China has secured routes already and how this plays into the New Silk Road and dollar hegemony.

Clinton Foundation - where to start? Where to end?

Mena AR / Contras - here you had it all the US backed right wing death squads locked in a murderous battle for Nicaragua vs the Sandinistas / CIA exporting drugs to be sold on American streets, black budgets, arms running / Clinton and Mena. Yet today, even though there is a massive wave of heroin across the US, even though heroin production in off the charts in A-stan, even though it pours in from over the border, if one listens to the MSM somehow the US Gov is totally unrelated to this and further, either powerless or not responsible.

Social Changes / Domestic Spy Grid - Collusion between NSA and AT&T is just one example / move toward a cashless econ is another / NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, Globalism, One China

Back to incontrovertible proof. Most people never question why it is that people like James Comey / Eric Holder / Janet Reno and a host of the other names (many that few have ever heard of) keep getting cycled between Bureaucracy / Higher Ed / Wall Street / MIL INDUST. Most people just accept that investigations into persons like Mark Rich, Jeff Epstein, the Clinton Foundation never provide any real proof of wrong doing, and therefore while the accused are probably guilty of some stuff, they couldn’t have done anything really that bad - b/c the Gov would have found it. Most folks never really take the time to look into these key connections to realize that some connections - like the three names cited, have been a part of the investigation / prosecution process for more than 30 yrs, and that most of the biggest things were under their purview - and the cases went no where.

So - you are 100% right. I do not have the smoking gun. However since we all need to rely on ‘officials’ to do the investigation and those officials have never been able to really prove anything, and yet this pattern continues - what should the logical conclusion be?

In all sincerity - if you are seriously seeking an answer, the subject is too vast and you actually need to put the effort in to understanding the problem for yourself. The information is out there. Just pick a subject and start reading from multiple sources and form your own opinion. In the end it would be very hard for anyone to argue against the fact that a clear pattern of abuse has been present and that no real effort has been made to stop it.
 
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A well reasoned response. And one I agree with on many points, but I have an ingrained distrust of authority. A few quick points:

"Thus, in your opinion since I can not point to the definitive smoking gun, somehow - I am to believe that they maintained neutrality in the French elections, when historically they never have."

Not at all, I have no intentions of influencing your beliefs. We are only having this dialog because you referenced a source for your initial claim, and that source didn't back up the claim. I have no knowledge of the french elections or process, but if manipulating it somehow serves an agenda of importance to someone powerful, I have no doubt such manipulations were attempted. At the same time, I have no idea if manipulations were attempted or successful. Smoking gun be damned, I'd take a timeline showing who was likely to win - who won - why that change would benefit the global elite (if indeed a change occurred). However, I'm sure there have been countless foreign elections that have not been manipulated, simply because there was no benefit in doing so.

"And furthermore, b/c you don’t see the link between the changes that have occurred over the last 50 yrs and the US intelligence agencies - they aren’t a part of that either."

Not what I said. I simply said that the information you provided doesn't back that claim up. While I believe the claim, I have no specific knowledge that supports it. Again we are backing our belief with innuendo, supposition, and trend spotting.

In truth, my issue isn't really with you or your beliefs. I have a general discontent with the large number of once reasonable men who have spent the last decade devolving into a host of tinfoil hats. Men who are all too ready to cling to any claim that backs their preconceived bias. In my adult life I have watched the internet change from the herald of the information age into the primary tool of disinformation. My internal response has been to veer away from espousing my opinions on beliefs I can't corroborate. I believe that in an age of disinformation, innuendo, and half truths; it is incumbent upon reasonable men to acquire a solid footing before casting aspersions on the intentions of others. A review of this thread alone exposes one to an absurd number of beliefs professed as facts, many of which were never more than rumor. Others have been thoroughly debunked. And a few that remain open questions, albeit still lacking in any concrete motivations or facts.

It seems to me that a great amount of society's current malaise, could be relieved if we simply stopped accepting accusations at face value. Especially when those accusations reinforce our beliefs, we should request more information before buying them wholesale. Thus, you were interrogated :)

At any rate, watching the buffoonery of the last few years has pushed my beliefs more toward Hanlon's razor than any wide ranging conspiracy. For as a great man once printed Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead

B. Franklin

That logic makes it difficult to accept that (for example) a press core of 1000's of people could be acting in concert to intentionally deceive us all. Not impossible, but unlikely.
 
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Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead

B. Franklin

That logic makes it difficult to accept that (for example) a press core of 1000's of people could be acting in concert to intentionally deceive us all. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Let me first state that I am highly impressed by the intelligent discourse between the two of you concerning this topic. You guys have some serious communication and grammar skills that one does not often see reflected on the internet. Keep it coming as I am really enjoying reading from you guys. With that being said, as brilliant as a man as Benjamin Franklin was there is a serious flaw in his quote simply because if it were true this nation would have never came to fruition. You see I am a huge fan of Benjamin Franklin and George Washington and anyone that knows much about the Revolutionary War knows that there was a certain group of men, including the two just mentioned, that heavily relied on secrets and a spy ring of sorts to change the outcome of the war in their favor. So, while generally I would agree with Franklin I couldn't accept it as a 100% factual quote 100% of the time. Today that quote probably rings true more than ever as it seems society as a whole has lost more of a sense of morality than you would most likely have seen in times past. At any rate, again, I am enjoying you alls post.

In closing, I would just like to add that in most cases if your gut tells you there is a problem and there sure seems like a problem is ongoing in matters such as these and plenty of people feel the same way then there is most likely a problem. If a overwhelming group feels as if there is wrongdoing in the gov, even without the smoking gun, chances are they are correct. You can look at this one step further and make an argument that even if something is not true, if you can get enough people in society to believe the lie, then it won't matter if it's true or not as their beliefs will turn into actions at some point which is why all of this is kind of dangerous in and of itself. I can also tell you that in my 36 years I have never felt society at such a breaking point, never have I felt this much paranoia in the people before. Whether that be because something is really happening or crazy talk on the internet influencing all of these people or whatever, nobody really knows but it's clear that there is definitely a shift in the overall sense of safety among the larger populace. People are flat wigged out.
 
I think the same thing should happen to Trump that happened to Obama in 2012, and Ted Kennedy in 1984. Which was nothing, and to be frank I find that more suspicious than anything trump would do, the Democrat party are fellow travelers of the Russian and any other totalitarian state. Hell Teddy boy was an outright spy.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/10/...984-elections/

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150412/NEWS/150419898


The real question is what are your motivations for these base and ignorant questions? Are you a paid poster, i.e. a TROLL? are you just stupid? Are you willingly blind so you can continue to live your miserable worthless life in denial of the reality that is a Trump presidency? Are you on the run from ICE? Are you on that Russian ship 30 miles off the coast that Trump might blow out of the water? What prompts these questions from a new member with only posts in the Pit section of this great and informative forum on shooting and tactics and all things geared toward snipery sht?

if you are a willfully ignorant POS, go somewhere else, if you are genuinely curious try google.

One more thing, stopping that fish smelling rotten cunt from getting back in any position of importance is paramount, that fish smelling evil cunt witch is a fkn evil criminal bitch, I will fire up a cigar when she croaks which i hope is soon, it looks like bill has the aids and maybe gave it to her. That cunt would have bought us to a civil war. No doubt. Trying to remain civil here.


I'm curious.

For the OP, and others.....

"IF" it were found to be true that the Trump campaign staff had been collaborating\coordinating with Russian Intelligence operatives during the last election, even if it wasn't strictly illegal, even if only promising a more friendly relationship for any help they could throw their way, would you be OK with that?

Would that be considered acceptable means to a desired end? Would stopping Hillary justify that?

I'm just curious where people draw the line.
 
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I think your use of the word reason is probably the first word you use when you start to equivocate and reason yourself into accepting the reasonableness of that filthy fish smelling corrupt disease riddled cunt as president. I am just guessing at this though, but willing to bet I am right.
 
I think your use of the word reason is probably the first word you use when you start to equivocate and reason yourself into accepting the reasonableness of that filthy fish smelling corrupt disease riddled cunt as president. I am just guessing at this though, but willing to bet I am right.



 
That's unlikely given I didn't vote for her. I'm sure you believe that though, as it makes it easier for you to dismiss and avoid the difficult question I asked.

And of course, your secondary argument is that I shouldn't be allowed to post because I don't have enough posts. That's logically sorta funny.

I used to vote straight Republican, but over the last decade I've started voting Libertarian on general principal. Yeah, they're goofs, but I think it would be beneficial to the country to build up a viable 3rd party.

Good morning, ma'am. Have we met?
 
That's unlikely given I didn't vote for her. I'm sure you believe that though, as it makes it easier for you to dismiss and avoid the difficult question I asked.

1- I answered your dumb fk question, try reading.

And of course, your secondary argument is that I shouldn't be allowed to post because I don't have enough posts. That's logically sorta funny.

2-You can post whatever you want I just pointed out the fact that you joined a sniper forum to only post about non snipery stuff, making the probability you are a troll much higher than not. Not really illogical.

I used to vote straight Republican, but over the last decade I've started voting Libertarian on general principal. Yeah, they're goofs, but I think it would be beneficial to the country to build up a viable 3rd party.

3- Agree 100% on this, dont mistake my hatred for the Clintons as being personal and only focused on them, I despise both criminal organizations but the Dem mafia much more. I went 3rd party long ago, I consider Trump a 3rd party president, my view is he is the last chance before rolling with the next option.


 
as brilliant as a man as Benjamin Franklin was there is a serious flaw in his quote simply because if it were true this nation would have never came to fruition. You see I am a huge fan of Benjamin Franklin and George Washington and anyone that knows much about the Revolutionary War knows that there was a certain group of men, including the two just mentioned, that heavily relied on secrets and a spy ring of sorts to change the outcome of the war in their favor. So, while generally I would agree with Franklin I couldn't accept it as a 100% factual quote 100% of the time. Today that quote probably rings true more than ever as it seems society as a whole has lost more of a sense of morality than you would most likely have seen in times past.

True enough. Though it is fair to point out that we are comparing the secrets held by a cadre of 50 men in the late 1700's (who had a penchant for highly compartmentalized information) to a wide ranging conspiracy that would require the absolute secrecy of 1000's of reporters. I have no doubt that there exist a multitude of cabals within the upper echelon of our government with their own agendas. It is also fair to assume that many of them don't hold the best interests of the populace as sacrosanct. I never viewed the quote as literal (ie only 1 man can keep a secret), but as a general "the more people know the secret, the less likely it is to remain secret". Which was true even during the revolution, which had it's share of traitors despite best efforts (Arnold etc.). Viewed from that perspective, how likely is it that in our age a wide ranging conspiracy could remain shrouded in darkness? Major leaks in the internet age have been increasing exponentially, even from systems and agencies which were once considered nearly impregnable. How do I square that knowledge with the implications being thrown about in this thread and others?

How (for example) do we believe that the entirety of the news media is actively deceiving us to forward some nefarious goal? How many news outlets are there in this country, 2k? Is it not reasonable to assume that if all those people were being orchestrated towards a common goal that we would have some genuine evidence of it? Where are the whistle blowers, the documents on wikileaks, reddit, et al? Even if only 0.05% of reporters weren't on board with the "master plan", we would still have hundreds of people clamoring to expose it with proof. And yet, I have not seen this proof (if anyone reading this has some, feel free to point it out. I would love to see it).

Take for example the way the media handles firearms stories. While I'm sure there are those reporters who purposely pedal lies, it is likely that many are willfully ignorant, and still more likely that many more are just to lazy to educate themselves on the subject (they are after all mostly paid for the article, not the research that went into it) . But the mixture of liars, confirmation bias, and quick buck seekers does not a conspiracy make.

In closing, I would just like to add that in most cases if your gut tells you there is a problem and there sure seems like a problem is ongoing in matters such as these and plenty of people feel the same way then there is most likely a problem. If a overwhelming group feels as if there is wrongdoing in the gov, even without the smoking gun, chances are they are correct. You can look at this one step further and make an argument that even if something is not true, if you can get enough people in society to believe the lie, then it won't matter if it's true or not as their beliefs will turn into actions at some point which is why all of this is kind of dangerous in and of itself. I can also tell you that in my 36 years I have never felt society at such a breaking point, never have I felt this much paranoia in the people before. Whether that be because something is really happening or crazy talk on the internet influencing all of these people or whatever, nobody really knows but it's clear that there is definitely a shift in the overall sense of safety among the larger populace. People are flat wigged out.

An excellent summation. The bold portion touches on one of my primary concerns, and the remaining portions are true to my own observations (right down to the age, I'm also 36). With the caveat that I see two types of people. Those of us who see what you describe, and those who are to busy with the circus to notice the tension (i'm talking about anyone who gives a fuck about things like the Kardashians). I honestly think that rational dissection and dissemination of the information we have access too, is the only thing that could turn us away from civil war (if that even remains a possibility). Contrarily, continuing to propagate false information will only accelerate said war.

Happy thoughts :confused:
 
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It makes you a fucking hypocrite, you have yet to say what should be done with Obama and Teddy for actually doing what you imagine Trump or his minions probably didn't do. I think I pegged you with my initial assessment you have liberal selective willful blindness and are purposefully stupid, might be genetic stupidity but either way its the same result.

You have yet to cite one credible instance of cyber warfare by the Russian fuckers against Hilary, the smelly disease riddled cunt. Fact is they had her on the goddam payroll and would have been better off with that bitch as president. Like it or not the bitch lost, now go drown yourself in your own tears. I see you live in Dallas, please move your ass back to California.
 
True enough. Though it is fair to point out that we are comparing the secrets held by a cadre of 50 men in the late 1700's (who had a penchant for highly compartmentalized information) to a wide ranging conspiracy that would require the absolute secrecy of 1000's of reporters. I have no doubt that there exist a multitude of cabals within the upper echelon of our government with their own agendas. It is also fair to assume that many of them don't hold the best interests of the populace as sacrosanct. I never viewed the quote as literal (ie only 1 man can keep a secret), but as a general "the more people know the secret, the less likely it is to remain secret". Which was true even during the revolution, which had it's share of traitors despite best efforts (Arnold etc.). Viewed from that perspective, how likely is it that in our age a wide ranging conspiracy could remain shrouded in darkness? Major leaks in the internet age have been increasing exponentially, even from systems and agencies which were once considered nearly impregnable. How do I square that knowledge with the implications being thrown about in this thread and others?

How (for example) do we believe that the entirety of the news media is actively deceiving us to forward some nefarious goal? How many news outlets are there in this country, 2k? Is it not reasonable to assume that if all those people were being orchestrated towards a common goal that we would have some genuine evidence of it? Where are the whistle blowers, the documents on wikileaks, reddit, et al? Even if only 0.05% of reporters weren't on board with the "master plan", we would still have hundreds of people clamoring to expose it with proof. And yet, I have not seen this proof (if anyone reading this has some, feel free to point it out. I would love to see it).

Take for example the way the media handles firearms stories. While I'm sure there are those reporters who purposely pedal lies, it is likely that many are willfully ignorant, and still more likely that many more are just to lazy to educate themselves on the subject (they are after all mostly paid for the article, not the research that went into it) . But the mixture of liars, confirmation bias, and quick buck seekers does not a conspiracy make.



An excellent summation. The bold portion touches on one of my primary concerns, and the remaining portions are true to my own observations (right down to the age, I'm also 36). With the caveat that I see two types of people. Those of us who see what you describe, and those who are to busy with the circus to notice the tension (i'm talking about anyone who gives a fuck about things like the Kardashians). I honestly think that rational dissection and dissemination of the information we have access too, is the only thing that could turn us away from civil war (if that even remains a possibility). Contrarily, continuing to propagate false information will only accelerate said war.

Happy thoughts :confused:

There doesn't have to be 1000s in on the conspiracy.

All you need is 40 years of indoctrination through the schools and you have a population of useful idiots to draw from. Useful idiots - whats old is new, and true.

Promote the true believers and guide them with the positioning of a Cronkite, Rather or Stephanopoulos. Their brains are like putty they will perform.

Your firearm example is a good one to show the homogeneity and patterning of the news - how is it all the time these diverse competitive orgs always end up with the same buzz words? Lately I hear the term "Extreme OUI" across the networks - standby your being conditioned for anyone above some arbitrary threshold to be getting enhanced penalties. Pie eyed is pie eyed but we got to keep the lawyers paid.

I don't know what these dicks talk about at Davos and similar events but I bets its not "How do we give pmclaine a better life? as I determine what is a good, free, life.
 
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Guys opposing views are fun.

It exposes the error of their thinking and it creates serious cognitive dissonance in their minds.

They are faced with truth and the connections in their brains start to fry.

They only have three choices

1. Dig in and double down because they are certain the socialist, globalist life, despite being opposed by all laws of nature is the correct path. They will say and commit any lie or atrocity because "it is for our own good".

2. They can realize their socialist, globalist, liberal ideas are bullshit clearing their minds of conflict. Enjoying the mayhem, power and satisfying their sadistic tendencies they continue to support the regime because it allows them power while otherwise they would be shunned for their contemptible nature.

3. They just might realize the error of their ways and if not move from dark to light they will withdraw in shame and stop supporting.

We are moving beyond a point where political parties disagreed about policy but both had the good of the country in mind. I think now an establishment has decided the Great Experiment places too many restrictions on their thirst for power and the freedoms we enjoy hold them back from enslaving us.
 
Ah. So I'm a Libtard (I assume you mean Liberal and not Libertarian LOL) simply because I believe it would be crossing a line for either party to offer quid pro quo to a foreign intelligence service in order to encourage them to use cyber warfare against an opposing party and attempt to influence the course of our internal election process? I'm not saying that is what Trump or his campaign did, but if they had, that is crossing a line in my book.

That makes you a Libtard now days?

LOL. There was a day when that would merely be seen as being a loyal American.

I agree a country attempting to influence OUR election in that manner is an issue. You say your not saying that's what happened but in so doing you are "FAKE NEWS".

Why don't you state what happened - the fool Podesta opened a phish unsecuring his computerand infecting the DNC. Than when warned by the FBI the arrogant DNC refused an assessment because their servers were well secured probably in Hillarys shitter.

That is the news but people with an agenda want an angle to torpedo Trump.

You talk apples while showing us an orange.

You understand that we interfere in elections such as sending an Obama team to screw Netanyahu which turned into another repudiation of the former Emperor.
 
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Ah, the flowery aroma of the "pink taco." We aren't even out of port a week and they're sunning themselves on the fantail already.
 
Someone please tell me how the Russians could have hacked the voting machines. That would have been impossible from any polling stations around me short of Russians being here and being plugged directly into the machines. Paper ballots and none of them were hooked to a network of any kind. It's a simple feed the paper and a vote is cast and tallied. That's it. The only other way I know you could influence this type of system would be to somehow intercept the final count before it got to the central voting office, so to speak. Or, they could have had something to do with monkeying with the software these machines run on and I don't see that being a possibility either really. So, someone please tell me how they would have had a direct influence on the votes?
 
From my first post, I made clear I was positing a hypothetical. The point being, if in 6 months or so, it was actually proven that Trump or his campaign actively colluded with Russian intelligence operatives and promised more advantageous treatment if they could use their cyber capabilities to tilt advantage in the election their way, how would people, including Trump supporters weight that.

Some, no matter what the evidence would claim it's all fake and stick their fingers in their ears and scream "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA!"

Other might admit it happened, but claim anything was justified in defeating Hillary, including foreign collusion.

Some might say, they were against Hillary being elected, might even be pro-Trump, but that kind of behavior crossed the line and require sanctions against anyone directly involved to preserve the integrity of our election process. Even if those people were Republican.

I think there needs to be a serious independent commission to get to the bottom of what happened in the 2016 election. It needs to be honest and balanced. Not a Democratic hatchet job, not a Republican white-wash. It needs to look at every aspect and have full subpoena power. It should look at not only possible foreign influence, but also look honestly at claims of voter fraud. If there are millions of illegal aliens voting, that is also a threat to our political process.


I think there is a consensus forming that there was probably Russian attempts to influence the election through cyber activity. If that turns out to be the case, there needs to be a cost applied to them.

If it turns out Trump and his campaign were only the innocent beneficiaries of that, and they had no direct collusion, then they are in the clear. The Russians could have decided completely separately to assist Trump for purely their own reasons.

Get the facts. Lay them out for all to see. Let the chips fall where they may.

I"ll add this, as well as Hillary worked in Russia's benefit in the past why would they push for Trump?
She has proven to be influenced by money.

I should add, as the call for investigation into the Russians, why aren't we including the exposure of Hilary's email.


R
 
I"ll add this, as well as Hillary worked in Russia's benefit in the past why would they push for Trump?
She has proven to be influenced by money.

I should add, as the call for investigation into the Russians, why aren't we including the exposure of Hilary's email.


R

Because that is how the shell game is ran on the voters. The news media has been running a smoke an mirrors game for so long it's now normal and no one seems to ask or care about it. Hence the new phrase during an after he was elected,... Fake News. They are all guilty of it including FOX---Breitbart---UK daily mail and many a blog site.

Remember the basic theme when running Cy-ops, -----> IN CONFUSION THERE IS OPPORTUNITY.
 
It seems entirely lost on certain parties that the country was run for eight years under a President whose Department of Justice refused to operate in a lawful manner. Do we trust that a full investigation was conducted, or do we go on the assumption that they did a purposefully half-assed job designed to keep Hillary out of the hoosegow?
 
So, what you're saying, in essence, is that the current Administration should be held to an entirely different, and more rigorous set of standards than the cabal of fucking thieves that has yet to be flushed out of DC in its entirety? Some of the same ones that are conducting Quisling operations from within the government in an attempt to hamstring Trump and provide the McCains of the world with sound-bite fodder?

I think we got you figured out.
 
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I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had a learning disability.

1 You shouldn't make fun or differently abeld people

From post #76 above: "it would be crossing a line for either party..."
also from that post: "I'm not saying that is what Trump or his campaign did, but if they had, that is crossing a line in my book."

2 You are actually not saying anything that has to do with reality. Fact is the Clinton crime family was warned that were getting attacked, not just by Russians but 7 different countries, as stated above that douche bag campaign manager of hers fell for a phishing attack, a simple one, real basic, and this is the same crew that transmitted classified documents through an unsecured server. BTW that is all a simple investigation by a PFC MP would need to arrest Hilary and anyone else that transmitted or received classified info to or from that server. Nothing more nothing less, the fact that the bitch walks free today while the FBI admitted she sent and received hundreds of classified documents shows how deep and corrupt our government is. If trump does not hire or get congress to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate that bitch, her husband, Lynch and Obama I will consider his presidency a failure.

Again, you are confused. There is no hypocrisy. I apply those standards equally to any party; Democrat, Republican, or Libertarian.

3 You are not only a hypocrite but delusional and a liar.

Any party attempting to encourage a foreign intelligence service to involve themselves in our election process for political advantage would be crossing a line in my book.

4 Yet you do not call out Teddy and Obama who did just what you think Trump might have possibly done if you believe in unicorns and fairys.

BTW, merely turning up the asshole volume on your posts don't give your arguments any additional weight. It just makes you sound unhinged, irrational, and unintelligent.

5I take pride in having a asshole volume knob, unlike you I can turn it up and down, you are on Turbo woofer asshole number 10 all times.






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I don't think there are any credible sources that are claiming the the Russians manipulated the vote tallying system.

The nature of their attack was breaking in to the DNC internal server and pulling off embarrassing email that were later dumped into the public by WikiLeaks. Our cyber guys can tell from the sophistication that it was a nation-state attack, not some lone hacker. If I understand correctly, the signature of the malware used was similar to ode used be Russian against Ukrainian information systems prior to their invasion of Crimea. I think they are now pretty confident the source was Russian intelligence and they have tracked the path of how the data got to WikiLeaks.

The timing of the WikiLeaks were orchestrated to do maximum damage to Hillary during the last stages of the campaign.

Did it make a difference? I think it did. Many of the emails were specifically chosen to drive a wedge between the Clinton and Sanders camps. Clinton needed those Sanders supports. She didn't get many of them because of the emails.

But Hillary is an asshole, so why should we care. I think if a foreign intelligence service is trying to influence the outcome of our elections we should care deeply, even if those outcomes were what we wanted.

Sometimes you need to stop and think about country over party.

Are these the same Russian that now just call up Maxine Waters or John McCain ask if they have Prince Albert in the can and than the dupes on the other end start spilling their guts about foreign policy well outside the scope of their STATE senator office and than admit how they are working with each other in the interests of Ukraine rather than the country?

Are those the guys doing this?
 
No, I suspect there is a whole lot in life you don't have figured out.


First, it sound like you are already assuming Trump and his campaign are dirty. An independent investigation might clear him of that.

I think they would find the Russians were involved in trying to throw our election over to Trump. But that doesn't necessarily put Trump at fault.
If neither Trump nor anyone on his staff were in contact with Russian operatives, colluding and coordinating with Russian operatives, promising advantageous treatment if they could help Trump win the election, then they are in the clear.

If they were doing those things, don't you honestly think we should find out?
Are you really OK with foreign intelligence services tilting our elections as long as they tilt it the way you like?
Can you look past the cloud of your partisan frenzy for one moment to see what is in the best interests of the Republic long after this election has been forgotten about?

Probably not. And that's whats gone wrong with this country.

Your second paragraph shows that you can't read well enough to effectively debate.

Please, PLEASE can't we have an ignore function here?
 
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I don't think there are any credible sources that are claiming the the Russians manipulated the vote tallying system.

The nature of their attack was breaking in to the DNC internal server and pulling off embarrassing email that were later dumped into the public by WikiLeaks. Our cyber guys can tell from the sophistication that it was a nation-state attack, not some lone hacker. If I understand correctly, the signature of the malware used was similar to ode used be Russian against Ukrainian information systems prior to their invasion of Crimea. I think they are now pretty confident the source was Russian intelligence and they have tracked the path of how the data got to WikiLeaks.

The timing of the WikiLeaks were orchestrated to do maximum damage to Hillary during the last stages of the campaign.

Did it make a difference? I think it did. Many of the emails were specifically chosen to drive a wedge between the Clinton and Sanders camps. Clinton needed those Sanders supports. She didn't get many of them because of the emails.

But Hillary is an asshole, so why should we care. I think if a foreign intelligence service is trying to influence the outcome of our elections we should care deeply, even if those outcomes were what we wanted.

Sometimes you need to stop and think about country over party.

Interesting points. Let's look at these one by one. I don't know where you have this idea that we somehow have gotten a good indication that it was the Russians. I have not heard anyone say that except for some left leaning news places that are trying to take the attention of a certain someone and place it on someone else. Assange stated many times that it was no such source. Why would he say that? What does he have to gain by not pointing out it was the Russians if that was indeed where he got it? They have offered him nothing and he has taken all of the risk. Secondly, if we know without a doubt it was the Russians then I think you would have to be pretty naive to think we would not have punished them in some way by now if that were the case.

In regards to as whether or not Wikileaks made a difference in the outcome, I am pretty sure many sources already weighed in on that and claimed it would have made no difference. I will have to dig and see if I can find that now that we are talking about it but I am pretty sure that was said to be the case. Either way, I don't agree with a criminal being saved by them not releasing said info, that imo the public should know about anyways. She did it to herself and anyone in the know knows about the Clinton crime family. I for one am glad any of this was exposed and if Trump is ever found to be doing the same I hope he is exposed as well. Frankly, I think we should be more concerned of an inept morally lost out of control gov before we concern ourselves with outside influences in our elections. If you don't fix the problems at home then outside influences will really make no difference because the main problem will still exist either way. Fix the problem at home and the outside stuff will fix itself. The difference is, you have to have just people with good moral character. I think there are too many good men in politics that have lost their way and now that things are being exposed they will do anything they can to keep their seat. I am signing off for a bit.
 
The theory is that Putin holds a deep grudge against Hillary because he thinks she was instigating and fomenting the mass riots against him in Moscow after his last "election" in 2011. Wouldn't surprise me if she had.

If you are expecting me to be a Hillary champion, you are going to be disappointed. But as far as more investigations into her email server... I mean, didn't we just have a 2 year investigation? Isn't that what the whole Comey letter thing was about? Anything they could have found on her they already have. Have the new DOJ charge her if you want, but I don't think at this point another investigation would find anything that hasn't already been found.

On a broader note, I think you guys should get over Hillary. She's gone. At her age, she won't be running again for national office. It's over.

The important thing now is to insure our electoral process is not compromised. Either by illegal aliens voting, stuff ballots boxed with fake ballots, or foreign intelligence service manipulation.

After investigating thoroughly we find none of that occurred, great. All the better. If it did, we need to take drastic actions.
As we are talking about justice has Hillary met the time frame for statute of limitations?
Do you believe the previous AG was on board with Hillary getting prosecuted?
You are contradicting yourself if you claim to seek justice but only in regards to Trump.
If our intelligence agencies are qualified to catch wrong doing, aren't they capable of preventing it?


R
 
I don't know about Hillary's statute of limitations. But by all means, if you have something she can be prosecuted on, go for it. I wouldn't shed a tear.

So no, I see no contradiction. I also am not trying to prosecute Trump. I simply want an independent, fair in-depth, open investigation of what went on.

That might be the best thing for Trump. Get it over with and remove all stink. Otherwise, people will assume his unwillingness to investigate is evidence of guilt.

So right now I have no desire to prosecute Trump. Now, if the results of an investigation show he and his campaign have dirt on them, then we would have to have another discussion.
But right now, I'm assuming Trump was not involved. I am assuming he was the innocent beneficiary of the Russian hacking.

It kinda sounds like you assume he was dirty, but it should be forgiven because Hillary got away with so much stuff, so fair is fair.
Is that your position?
You are projecting, the evidence that previous elected officials are dirty is overwhelming. Your focus has been on Trump and or the Russians. You are being disingenuous and making supositions about possibilities.
So far we have seen news agencies making innuendo about Russian involvement.
I find it curious that we aren't talkIng about what was in the emails. This is a common tactic to defect from damaging information.
You know what they say about assuming...


R


 
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Frankly, I don't care if the Russians or whoever did the hacking at the DNC. What I do care about is the fact that whoever they were, they exposed the truth and that should be of paramount importance. If that swayed the direction of the election, then so be it. That's the DNCs fault. You reap what you sow. It needed to be exposed anyways. If we have no truth and no moral compass as a society then it really doesn't matter who leads us as it will all turn to shit anyways. I, however, believe that there are still good men out there and that we have a chance to right the ship that was headed in the wrong direction. So,'in that regard, maybe we should be thanking the Russians or whoever these hackers were.
 
No, where did you get that? I'm saying you haven't posted ANYTHING else, like anything related to the purpose of the forum. Kind of odd, really...
 
I don't think you followed that one. What the CRAP are you talking about? My point was that, contrary to your assumption, it would also seem just as odd to join a long range precision shooting forum to only post "echoes" of a particular political point of view. You seem to take offense very easily.
 
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

What I am is bored. Whisky's almost gone, laptop is running on reserve battery power, and it's past my bedtime. You should be pretty tired, too, after a full day of trolling the Pit.

Good night, Sunshine.
 
Went to the website. Ill choke my chicken if that isn't an Obama OFA/Soros produced website. Pretty slickly done.

That ex POTUS, always POS, is sitting in his DC house with an office probably outfitted like NASA doing what he does best - Community Organizing.

They are desperate to create their version of the Tea Party. The Tea Party crushed Obama despite being targeted by a weaponized IRS.

The problem the left will have is that the Tea Party was based on truth and the message was honest - Taxed Enough Already - Follow the Constitution.

The left version can not tell the truth. If they did their message would be - Redistribution of Wealth, Equality of Outcome to Achieve the Lowest Common Denominator for All Except our Chosen Elite, Gun Control to Eliminate the last Means of Opposition, No National Borders, Elimination of the Constitution.

If they so strongly believe these are the policies that will bring the most benefit to the most people why don't they run based on the merits of what they believe?

They know the truth will bury them so they create false arguments to camouflage their agenda.

Got an email from them this morning outlining their plans for the congressional recess, mainly town hall meetings. Mind numb robots, they are.
 
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Got an email from them this morning outlining their plans for the congressional recess, mainly town hall meetings. Mind dumb robots, they are.

And mindless robots are what the organizers need.

The teach them some chants, drill them on talking points and have them ask questions akin to "So have you stopped beating your wife?"

Than the media plays up the numbers in order to get the fence sitters all concerned.

We are not the intended audience of those dog and pony shows.
 
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

What I am is bored. Whisky's almost gone, laptop is running on reserve battery power, and it's past my bedtime. You should be pretty tired, too, after a full day of trolling the Pit.

Good night, Sunshine.

31 posts so far: one to say "hi.," one to establish a bona fide by claiming purchase of an off the rack precision rifle, and twenty-nine in one thread to excoriate us for not having been stupid enough to swill the blue Kool Aid in November. That's twenty-nine in approximately 63.75 hours, by my calculation.

I think I know what's in the Kool-Aid.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/Ndj2xye.jpg?1"}[/IMG2]
More Heisenberg juice, Mom, please!
 
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LOL I thought you were going to ignore me? You couldn't ignore me if you tried, snowflake.

Again, you assume merely because I don't drink YOUR koolaid, that I must be a Democrat. Your thinking is incredibly 2-dimensional.

I just think that people like you, who are willing to sell-off our democracy to the Russian intelligence service for the price of a single election, are not only stupid, but traitors.

Someday, I hope you face a traitor's fate.
With extraordinary claims must come extraordinary proof.
So far we have discussed innuendo and news feed.
Maybe you have insider intelligence coming from one of the many alphabet organizations.
I haven't seen anything yet concrete.
Being emotional in the bear pit is like blood in the water.
Final thought, do you think the selling off of our government just started with this administration?


R