## Water Quench or Air Cool Annealed Brass? ##

R

rsplante

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Aug 2, 2011
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Houston, TX
#1
I just ordered an Annealing machine from Giraud Tool Co. GTC Home Apparently I have a 12 week wait before it arrives, so I have plenty of time to work out my question. Doug Giraud admits that there are several theories as to whether freshly annealed brass should drop into water or merely air cool, so he declines to take a position.

My understanding is that many choose to use water to insure that the heat does not migrate to the head of the brass which is very undesirable since you do not want to lose case strength where you need it most, and also so that you do not weaken the hold of the primer pocket. I'm guessing that they wish to cool the brass as quickly as possible to avoid the heat migration since the heating part is often an inexact process. The neck should be heated to 750 degF, while the head should stay above 450 degF according to Giraud's literature.

With the Giraud, the heat application is very precise and repeatable, so any indecision about heat migration should be removed. Since concern about inadvertantly annealing the head should be effectively removed, is there a metalurgical reason to either quickly quench the brass in water versus air cooling?
 
#3
Air cooling will deliver better results, there are some electron microscope photos on the web some where regarding the structure of air/water cooling on brass-while not a huge difference, given time and space, air cooling is preferred.
 
#5
It is my understanding that using water to cool annealed metal is a hardening excersize. Mind you, I am not speaking with authority here. It's something I remember from years back. check it out before you attempt it. You don't want your brass harder than it already is.
 
#6
40xs said:
It is my understanding that using water to cool annealed metal is a hardening excersize. Mind you, I am not speaking with authority here. It's something I remember from years back. check it out before you attempt it. You don't want your brass harder than it already is.
Click to expand...

This is true for some metal alloys.

Brass is not one of them. It can only be hardened by cold-working.
 
#8
Well, there you have it, pretty much unanimous agreement against water quenching. Thanks to all of you for responding. Within the first hour it was pretty conclusive, but just for grins I thought I would give the matter 24 hours. I'm convinced.
 
#12
Beyschaefer said:
My metallurgy textbooks say brass is annealed by heating to critical temp, and quenching in water... So I'm gonna keep doing that. Even though I suspect air would work fine for the reasons others have stated.
Click to expand...

Ahaa, I figured when I first posted this that I would hear different points of view. That is what I was looking for. I understand that your textbooks state what they do; however, there could be a myriad of variables in play. Since you probably understand the mechanism better than I do, I want to know, is the water quenching a part of the actual process of annealing, or merely a matter of convenience. i.e. something like, doesn't hurt and may speed the process. In the case annealing situation, I have understood the water quench to be traditionally a method of stopping the heat migration before it reached the head. The early responders seemed to feel that for various reasons, this particular concern was not valid. So, I am back to wondering, does the water quench specifically have a positive effect on the actual annealing process, or is it merely to prevent damage to the other end of the case and/or speed up the procedure?
 
Last edited:
#16
High Binder you surely recognize when you're dealing with an askhole*. They don't care if you get paid to do this for a living or went to college to study the subject. They know better than you. :)

*askhole-noun: One who asks questions about a subject, of those with vast knowledge, and then does what he wants anyway.
 
#17
bunsen27 said:
High Binder you surely recognize when you're dealing with an askhole*. They don't care if you get paid to do this for a living or went to college to study the subject. They know better than you. :)

*askhole-noun: One who asks questions about a subject, of those with vast knowledge, and then does what he wants anyway.
Click to expand...

^^Best post award. I actually LOL'd!
 
#19
If someone here had a Scanning Electron microscope and could look at alpha brass that has been cold worked and compare the grain size to annealed vs annealed and quenched we'd have an answer. I personally, wasted my money on ammo and Stiller actions so I have no more for cool science toys.
 
#21
waste_knot said:
If someone here had a Scanning Electron microscope and could look at alpha brass that has been cold worked and compare the grain size to annealed vs annealed and quenched we'd have an answer. I personally, wasted my money on ammo and Stiller actions so I have no more for cool science toys.
Click to expand...

I posted this exact thing ^^ on here about five years ago and it went straight to the bottom with VERY little interest, but the take away point was that the difference was so negligible as to be worthless in terms of what we ask our brass (B7) to do.
 
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