WC857 Powder for 7mm Rem Mag ... Yup, I'm *that guy* ?

[clcustom1911]

Pulled the trigger on a jug. For $80 per 8# jug + shipping ($30 Hazmat) and a burn rate which hovers around H1000-ish... sign me the fuck up. Beats ~$30/Lb for H1000 at all my local joints.

It should bode well for my 7mm RemMag shenanigans with 168 and 175 grainers. (T minus 14 hours, 52 minutes until my Tikka T3x gets out of Commie Cali Gun Jail)

WC857 Powder $80 a jug!

From the website:

"WC857 New item. A slow burning ball type powder developed for the .50BMG tracer ammo. This powder burns faster than the typical WC860 thru WC872 series of powders. This powder has not been released as a canister powder. Loads can be worked up using H-870 or AA-8700 data, less 10%. Burning rate seems to be similar to Hodgdon H1000 or Reloder 25. An excellent choice for the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Mag, and other magnum type calibers. Good results in .25-06 with heavy bullets. This is pulldown ball powder from Lake City."

I'll keep y'all posted. More details to follow, etc, etc.

 

[clcustom1911]

The powder was shipped yesterday!! Fast shipping!

 

[clcustom1911]

And my Tikka is out of jail!! Awesomeness

 

[cornhusker86]

Years ago I tried H870 in 7mm rem mag and ran into an issue. In order to achieve acceptable velocities, I had to use heavily compressed loads. Switched to H450 and eventually H1000. WC857 is supposed to be slightly faster than H870 so it may not be as much of an issue for you.

 

[clcustom1911]

Exactly. That's why I went with 857. They also had 860 and 872 available.

 

[clcustom1911]

My first jug-o-powder!!! Very excited to hold this much freedom at once!

 

[buffybuster]

I used this powder in a 243Win with 115's. Charge weight was around 51grs with a magnum primer. Needed a loooong 29" barrel to get full burn (decent ES/SD) and decent velocities. Should work in your application with the heavies and a long barrel.

 

[clcustom1911]

Thanks for the info. I'm working with 168 and heavier. We'll see how this works out.

 

[clcustom1911]

Since I just got me some of the brand new, beautiful Atlas Development Group brass, I'm gonna load up some blem 175 ELDx's and use a lighter load (60 grains or so) to fire form that brass to my chamber for their first firing. Gonna hit a 400 yard range early next week. Should be fun.

'Murica

 

[camotoe]

Patsreloading. Com

 

[clcustom1911]

Patsreloading. Com

Looked at them too. The have the 860 and slower powders. When I re-barrel to a 26+ with a faster twist for the 175+ heavies, I'll try out the WC860 or similar.

 

[clcustom1911]

Was able to fire 30 rounds of my "fireform" load: 64.0 grains of WC857, 175g ELD-X, Virgin ADG Brass, 3.34" COAL. Didn't see any unburnt powder in the barrel when I was pulling the bolt for the first 5 rounds. Brass had some carbon around the necks. Obviously no pressure related signs at all with an average velocity of 2335 via magnetospeed.

When I actually settled in and did my final 5 shot group with my very warm Tikka T3X Lite (Sporter contour) barrel.

 

[clcustom1911]

SIDE NOTE! When I put on the magnetospeed, the POI shifted *UP* about .5 mil. I woulda thought it was gonna be shifted down due to the weight of the contraption.

Witchcraft.

 

[clcustom1911]

The brass after firing.....

 

[clcustom1911]

Ok, so....

On 4/22/19 Made a bunch of fireform loads with my RP brass, 168 SMK's and 67g of WC857. On 4/23, Velocity was 2550 and ping'd 2 MOA steel out to 600 with boring regularity yesterday. .020" jump.

Today loaded up 3 each 68.5, 69, 69.5, 70 and gonna let you crazies know how it goes.

 

[knuckleballz]

I have a lot of wc867 for my 50bmg. I use it to fire form 300win mag brass that gets dinged up from my falkor semi.

 

[clcustom1911]

Time: 1116 PST
Temp: 77*f
Baro: 25.60
Humidity: 32%
DA: ~6500

Clear, sunny day.

Brass: RP, full length sized, annealed
Bullet: Sierra .284", 168g Matchking
Primer: FGMM 215M
Powder: WC857, 68.5g-70g, .5g increments.
Length: 2.785" base to Ogive ~3.34 COAL (.020" jump)

Rifle:

Tikka T3X Lite (Sporter contour barrel) 24", 1:9.5" RH twist.

Method of firing: 1 round every 30 seconds, wait 3-4 minutes for barrel to cool. I noticed when she heats up, she likes to shift POI to the right.

Distance: 100 yards

Result:

68.5g: AVG 2569, SD 25, ES 50, group size 1.203 MOA

69g: AVG 2620, SD 14, ES 28, group size .68 MOA

69.5g: AVG 2654, SD 22, ES 39, group size .68 MOA

70g: AVG 2691, SD 22, ES 44, group size. 68 MOA

 

[XLR308]

Years ago I tried H870 in 7mm rem mag and ran into an issue. In order to achieve acceptable velocities, I had to use heavily compressed loads. Switched to H450 and eventually H1000. WC857 is supposed to be slightly faster than H870 so it may not be as much of an issue for you.

Damn I haven't seen any H450 in about 20 years, it was great in my 30-06 with 165 ballistic tips.

 

[cornhusker86]

Damn I haven't seen any H450 in about 20 years, it was great in my 30-06 with 165 ballistic tips.

Yeah, that was back in the 90's. Used to run H380 in 308 w/ 168's and it was actually a very accurate load.

 

[BabypoopFAL]

Time: 1116 PST
Temp: 77*f
Baro: 25.60
Humidity: 32%
DA: ~6500

Clear, sunny day.

Brass: RP, full length sized, annealed
Bullet: Sierra .284", 168g Matchking
Primer: FGMM 215M
Powder: WC857, 68.5g-70g, .5g increments.
Length: 2.785" base to Ogive ~3.34 COAL (.020" jump)

Method of firing: 1 round every 30 seconds, wait 3-4 minutes for barrel to cool. Distance: 100 yards

Result:

68.5g: AVG 2569, SD 25, ES 50, group size 1.203 MOA

69g: AVG 2620, SD 14, ES 28, group size .68 MOA

69.5g: AVG 2654, SD 22, ES 39, group size .68 MOA

70g: AVG 2691, SD 22, ES 44, group size. 68 MOA

View attachment 7067067

What are you using to anneal?

 

[clcustom1911]

What are you using to anneal?

LIQUID HOT MAGMA!!!

A.K.A. salt bath annealing. this is the Ballistic Recreations setup with the thermocouple and sodium nitrate/potassium nitrate salts.

 

[clcustom1911]

For those interested, here is the velocity graphed out.... Fairly consistent trend working out to be about 50 FPS per grain increase. Which shows I would need 72 grains to get to my desired velocity of 2875-2900fps at 75*f.

 

[clcustom1911]

OK, so..... The orange dots are .75". Overall satisfied with the 72g load. No signs of pressure at all. I have loaded of 5 more at 72 as well as 3 each at 72.2-73 in .2g increments to see if the "node" I may have stumbled upon at 72 will extend out to 72.2 or 72.4

72g: AVG: 2761, SD 6, ES 12. .697 MOA

Here is the velocity line graph from 67g up to 72g:

 

[clcustom1911]

Yup, love my Tikka so much, I'm eating some leftover chicken Tikka Masala

 

[clcustom1911]

Slight change in plans. I'm headed out to the desert tomorrow to shoot all day from 100 to 1300+. I loaded a mess of the 72g load, as you can see. I actually loaded a total of 70 rounds of that load. I'll throw my magnetospeed and check speeds for a few here and there during the day to see how the velocity marches out as the heat goes up from 65 to 90*f or so.

I also made a bunch of my pet 6.5CR loads with Reloder 17 and H4350. I'm predicting my Reloder 17 will probably go from 2680 (at 65 degrees) to probably 2750 at 90*.... She get pissy when it's warm out.

 

[clcustom1911]

OK!

Update on the 72g 168 SMK load:

With the air temp being 82 via Kestrel, and the rounds were sitting in the sun, I'm guesstimating the powder temp got to about 95.

Baseline Temp was 75, DA 6300 and V was 2760:

Time 1115 PST
TEMP 81*f
SP 27.18
RH 23%
DA 4700 (+/- 50 or so)

First 3 rounds of the day:

V 2830
SD 3
ES 6

Fire 60+ rounds over the next 4-5 hours... then....


Last 5 (chamber and barrel definitely not cool/cold, so maybe the increased temps were warming everything up as the round sat in the chamber for the 10 seconds or so it took me to aim/fire)

Last 5

V 2830
SD 13
ES 29

Targets were at 8" round plate at 325, 8" round at 605, 50% IPSC at 905, 10" round at 1070.

With this load I was able to consistently hit the 325 and 605, then go 3 for 4 at the 905 yard before the winds got really shifty.

Tried to hit at 1505, but my bullet was going transonic at around 1250 or so and impacts were all around the target. I hit the rock probably 1" below the steel

My cheek was definitely smoked from my new kydex cheek riser. It works very well, but after 70 rounds of 7mm RemMag.... It just kinda makes you go "OUCHFUCK" after a while.

 

[clcustom1911]

Here's the FGMM 215M primers from the 72g load I fired in the desert at higher temps. Kinda flat, no pancakes, no cratering. Looks good to me.

 

[buffybuster]

I doubt you could get enough WC857 in the case to get high pressure signs.

 

[clcustom1911]

I doubt you could get enough WC857 in the case to get high pressure signs.

I still have room to go. I'm probably at 90% case fill right now. I'll run the load up to where I see pressure, but will probably end up staying with this load because it did well in the cooler temp and hotter temp as well.

 

[clcustom1911]

FINALLY!! Tomorrow is the day I'm gonna finally be able to test my 72-73g load series. The weather looks like the weather is gonna be sunny, 76* and winds 10 and under.

 

[cornhusker86]

How did this turn out? Did you move on to heavier bullets?

 

[clcustom1911]

I'm glad you asked....

Date 5/31/19
Temperature 72*f
SP: 25.47 inHg
RH: 44%
DA: 6400

72g: V 2748, SD 6, ES 13

72.2: V 2764, SD 2, ES 7

72.4: V 2776, SD 14, ES 29

72.6: V 2768, SD 13, ES 26

72.8: V 2794, SD 9, ES 19

73: V 2777, SD 14, ES 28

No pressure on anything. None, save for some slight primer flattening on 2-3 random cases.

Nosler Custom Competition 168g:

72g: V 2747, SD 14, ES 34

Hornady 175 ELDx:

68g: V 2581, SD 18, ES 46

ALCO 168 in ADG Brass:

Had to single load them because they were too long to mag feed through the 3.41" bottom action inlet on my Tikka.

72g: V 2810, SD 11, ES 28.

As far as group sizes go.... While I was shooting with the 168 Matchkings, the MagnetoSpeed kept sliding forward after each successive shot and I believe that caused harmonics to change and groups to vertically string. The MagSpeed normally causes a consistent 1.3mil vertical deflection at 100 yards. I usually just put the MagSpeed on, dial down 1.3 mils, and take a couple confirmation shots at another area of the target. Today it varied from 0.9-1.4 mils.

I finally ended up cleaning the exterior of the barrel and strap of the MagnetoSpeed before I shot the Nosler 168's, Hornady 175's, and Alco 168's.

That seemed to settle things down and all those groups were sub-MOA.

Overall, with RP brass, FED210m Primers, and either 168 Matchkings or Nosler 168 CC's loaded .020" off the lands, 72-72.2 is what I'm sticking with differing conditions and velocities caused by different powder temps... 72 maintains single digit SD's and low ES's

Still haven't had a chance to shoot my 183 Matchkings.

 

[cornhusker86]

I was expecting more velocity change with temp. changes. Maybe if you were pushing the upper limit with your powder charge, the temps would have a more pronounced effect. Looking forward to the results of the 183's.

 

[clcustom1911]

We'll see how they go.... 69 to 71gr in .25gr increments. 3.44 OAL these 183's are LOOONG bullets. 1.6"

 

[cornhusker86]

Are you crimping? Or is that an untrimmed case with factory crimp?

 

[clcustom1911]

Are you crimping? Or is that an untrimmed case with factory crimp?

Just a kiss of crimp to bring in the chamferred area of the case mouth opening. Some people are anti-crimp. I have found no difference in accuracy. I also do .003" neck tension.

 

[cornhusker86]

I do it for my semi's to prevent bullet set-back. Lee factory crimp die.

 

[clcustom1911]

I do it for my semi's to prevent bullet set-back. Lee factory crimp die.

Exactly. Bullet setback is for suckers!!

 

[AZgeek]

Recently bought a used 7mm Mag and working up loads using surplus WC860. Have at least 32 lbs of that laying around. Testing the Berger 180 Target Hybrid and 190 LR Target Hybrid bullets.

 

[clcustom1911]

860 is slow, but with a longer barrel, that could get you to 2700-2800 reliably, and for a good price per load/charge.

 

[AZgeek]

The rifle is an older ADL model with a 24" barrel in like new condition. The barrel length may in fact be the limiting factor irrespective of how much 860 I can safely get into a case. Using unfired brass for this initial testing. Hoping to get some additional capacity with neck sizing only going forward. May get some WC857 if its still available and compare the two.

 

[clcustom1911]

Based on my tests it seemed like 857 was a burning right about at Ramshot Magnum speeds

 

[AZgeek]

Got a chance to sneak out and test my next range of charges using WC860 and the Berger 180 Target Hybrids. No surprise the velocities are on the low side. Very surprised with the SD's:

78.0gr produced a three shot average of 2673 fps with a SD of 3
79.0gr produced a three shot average of 2716 fps with a SD of 4

Shot groups at 91 yards:

Moving on to + .5 and +1.0 gr increases as there are no pressure signs or bolt lift issues. After this next test, I'll get some WC857 and see how it compares.

 

[clcustom1911]

857 is faster. I was pushing 168's ar 2800 out of a 24" Tikka with 72 grains.

 

[AZgeek]

I'm not suggesting otherwise. If however I can get close to 2800 fps with a 180 Berger using 860 then that's a nice backup powder to have. Will be ordering some 857 tomorrow if its still available.

 

[AZgeek]

Got some from Jeff Bartlett. Will take at least three weeks to get due to the hazmat shipping limitations/backlogs.

 

[AZgeek]

My 857 will be here Thursday. Good thing I grabbed (4) 8 pounders as Bartlett is now sold out!

@clcustom1911. What would be a safe starting load for the Berger 180's seated at 3.455 (20 thou off lands)? Thinking 63 or 64 grains.

 

[Steel head]

Damn.
those powders are SLOOOOWWWWWW!

 

[AZgeek]

I consider my stash of WC860 and now WC857 back-up SHTF reserves for 50cal & 7mm/300win mag. Definitely better options out there!

 

[clcustom1911]

My 857 will be here Thursday. Good thing I grabbed (4) 8 pounders as Bartlett is now sold out!

@clcustom1911. What would be a safe starting load for the Berger 180's seated at 3.455 (20 thou off lands)? Thinking 63 or 64 grains.

For 7mm RemMag, yeah 64-65 sounds reasonable to start with 857 as long as it's the same lot I used. Your velocities should be around 2500. I'll need to fond my notes on the velocities I got with the 183 SMK's.