Right now I have a tac A1 in 260 rem but i'm looking at building one of the smaller 6mm cartridges. I'm considering getting another Tikka and building on that action. What am I losing by going with a Tikka action vs some of the custom actions out there?
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What am i giving up with a Tikka vs custom actions?
- Thread starter Andrew863
- Start date
Parts compatibility.
CS
Shooting wise, nothing.
CS
Shooting wise, nothing.
Yea that is a good series. That is what I figured, but I wanted to make sure there wasn't a piece of the puzzle I was missing. My action now with close to 1k rounds is silky smooth and still easily under .5 all day. The only thing I can think of is there are more chassis options for the 700 and the used parts market and parts in general are everywhere. It seems now with the shouldered pre fits and triggers out for the Tikka it is definitely a viable option for a custom build.
trigger options
maybe stock/chassis availability depending what you want
other than that? nothing at all regarding the action performance itself
maybe stock/chassis availability depending what you want
other than that? nothing at all regarding the action performance itself
Most guys have other R700 platform rifles, so being able to interchange parts between them can be advantageous. Otherwise, you’re not giving up much else.
The factory barrel can be a pain to remove. I use a shop press with a Ross Precision vise, a Wilcox external universal wrench and a dead blow hammer. Placement of the wrench is critical to not damage the receiver. Shouldered prefits are good to go. If you get the trigger spring from Mountain Tactical you can make the trigger scary light to 2lbs easy. They require a smaller shank barrel if you want it to match the receiver but that is just for looks, unless you want to put it in a Tikka stock. Using a standard shank barrel doesn't cause fitment issues with a wide open chassis barrel channel. The action is as square as anything else out there and run as smoothly or better than others way above the price point.
Are there any actions that are much more smooth then a Tikka? I personally haven't felt anything that felt much better, but I haven't been around a large variety of custom actions at the same time.
I really like my Tac a1, outside of the barrel being a little slow, which I’ll swap one day, it’s a phenomenal gun and very smooth and easy to shoot well, same with my smaller Sako, the Finn’s make great guns.
That being said, when I get my butt in gear and build a custom 6BRA, I’ll go with the R700 pattern because of the insane amount of parts comparability and options that gives me.
That being said, when I get my butt in gear and build a custom 6BRA, I’ll go with the R700 pattern because of the insane amount of parts comparability and options that gives me.
You might get some stocks and triggers to interchange................if that.
Out of the box nothing is smoother from my experience. The Zermatt's are about as smooth right out of the box. My old 700 action which has been well broken in with thousands of cycles is about as smooth. Most actions will break in to be as smooth as the Tikka but none are smoother from the get go.
A custom action is the way to go IMO.
First of all, the price difference between a Tikka action and a low end custom is not massive, especially if you start upgrading the Tikka action with aftermarket bolt handles, bolt shrouds, etc.
Note that all Tikka receivers are basically long action. They are also quite thin, custom actions are generally a lot more robust.
As others have mentioned, the aftermarket for R700 is larger than for Tikkas. In particular, there very few triggers available for Tikkas, and stock Tikka triggers are not as good as say Triggertech.
It is also easier to replace barrels on custom actions. There are shouldered prefits available for many of them. I also think that Tikka receivers taper at the front, so some standard profiles with 1.25in diameter around the chamber may be of larger diameter than the front of the Tikka receiver. Going to a different bolt face in a Tikka is also prohibitively expensive.
Overall I'd say Tikkas have great actions, almost as good as customs. However, in my experience Tikka builds tend to cost almost as much as for example Origin builds, and I do think that custom actions are a bit better across the board.
Well there are pros and cons. If you are building a hunting gun using one of the uber short actions like 7 SAUM, the Tikka has benefits over a custom short action that it will let you load longer and there is a ton of aftermarket for mags and other accessories.
For a match gun or heavy usage, I would go with something like an impact or lone peak. Just more robust, smoother and will handle dust/dirt better than the tikka which can bind up.
You used to be able to snag used tikka rifles for $350-400 and use that as a donor, Now the guns are closer to $7-800 with very few used ones out there, the price is not really that great.
The A1 chassis is a terrible platform for swapping barrels. The amount of fasteners in that thing and the ease of stripping them is not worth the aggravation. Depending on which one you strip, you may end up with a gun you cant get the barrel off.
For a match gun or heavy usage, I would go with something like an impact or lone peak. Just more robust, smoother and will handle dust/dirt better than the tikka which can bind up.
You used to be able to snag used tikka rifles for $350-400 and use that as a donor, Now the guns are closer to $7-800 with very few used ones out there, the price is not really that great.
The A1 chassis is a terrible platform for swapping barrels. The amount of fasteners in that thing and the ease of stripping them is not worth the aggravation. Depending on which one you strip, you may end up with a gun you cant get the barrel off.
1. Trigger. 2. LA mag max COAL 3.56. 3. Smallish barrel tenon may find pressure early on bigger magnums. 4. LA stock/chassis options.
2 things the tikka sucks at.
-fitting any cartridge greater than 3.3”, for that reason most don’t make them into long action cartridges. Accessories for long action stuff is also limited.
-Bolt lift is heavier
That’s all I can see. I have a few tikkas and a defiance. I wish I would have just bought another tikka but the defiance is a long action and I plan to use the length.
No price comparison between a budget custom and a tikka. I built a somewhat budget custom…I can buy a tikka for 1000 bucks, drop the barrel, action and trigger into my choice of stock or chassis and be giving up nothing.
You can now buy prefits for the time a new barrel needs to go on as well.
Iv seen quite a few customs go down, my tikkas have not yet.
The only other reasons I would not go down the tikka road are lack of the barrel specs I want. That’s pretty much it.
-fitting any cartridge greater than 3.3”, for that reason most don’t make them into long action cartridges. Accessories for long action stuff is also limited.
-Bolt lift is heavier
That’s all I can see. I have a few tikkas and a defiance. I wish I would have just bought another tikka but the defiance is a long action and I plan to use the length.
No price comparison between a budget custom and a tikka. I built a somewhat budget custom…I can buy a tikka for 1000 bucks, drop the barrel, action and trigger into my choice of stock or chassis and be giving up nothing.
You can now buy prefits for the time a new barrel needs to go on as well.
Iv seen quite a few customs go down, my tikkas have not yet.
The only other reasons I would not go down the tikka road are lack of the barrel specs I want. That’s pretty much it.
Tikka is cheaper but a very nice action. A custom in the R700 footprint costs more but buys you wider compatibility with aftermarket parts (chassis. triggers. etc.) and maybe a few nice features like changeable bolt heads, fast barrel changes, or AW magazine cuts.
Tikka T3 is a Sako TRG sniper rifle action, slimmed down, with two lug bolt, instead of three.
It can use the Sako Trg trigger.
Its trigger and reliable function is much better at handling dusty/sandy/icey conditions then Rem 700 design!
Finland is at the same latitude as Alaska... they are expected to work in finish winters.
And a Tikka T3 is twice as expensive in Finland, Scandinavia and Europe in general.
Americans are still buying them at half the price to compared their home country...
And some claim they are getting to expensive...
Oh and Tikka did all this 20 years ago..
It can use the Sako Trg trigger.
Its trigger and reliable function is much better at handling dusty/sandy/icey conditions then Rem 700 design!
Finland is at the same latitude as Alaska... they are expected to work in finish winters.
And a Tikka T3 is twice as expensive in Finland, Scandinavia and Europe in general.
Americans are still buying them at half the price to compared their home country...
And some claim they are getting to expensive...
Oh and Tikka did all this 20 years ago..
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Almost nothing. They're all "long actions" technically so the actuation is more like operating a 30-06 every time than a shorter throw Remington 700 short action, but you'll never notice that in real life. I suppose, because it is a factory action, there's a small "chance" a Tikka action is out of tolerance for available pre-fits, but that's easily remedied with a barrel nut (or trying again with another action, I suppose). The bolt lift of a Tikka can be a little heavy but a swept back handle and/or a longer tactical bolt knob removes anything less-than-desirable in that department cheaply.
There's plenty of triggers available. There's plenty of available chassis/stocks. There's plenty of good barrels and rails and stuff. There's plenty of gunsmiths out there than can do fancy custom shit to them (not that you really ever need to). There's enough replacement parts.
Tikka actions, as far as I know, are based off of a military design that was subjected to harsher environments than most any Remington 700 was.
The only reason I don't use a Tikka action every single time myself is because... well, I don't know why? Shit... why don't I? What is wrong with me?
Okay maybe another "downside" is the recoil lug is a piece of metal that slots into the stock/chassis instead of being attached to/integrated into the action. But that doesn't seem to affect anything of note, certainly not in a rifle capable of going 1,200 yards, as I've seen Tikkas do in competition.
I guess the only real downside is Tikka is owned by Beretta and their customer service is about as wonderful as being waterboarded.
There's plenty of triggers available. There's plenty of available chassis/stocks. There's plenty of good barrels and rails and stuff. There's plenty of gunsmiths out there than can do fancy custom shit to them (not that you really ever need to). There's enough replacement parts.
Tikka actions, as far as I know, are based off of a military design that was subjected to harsher environments than most any Remington 700 was.
The only reason I don't use a Tikka action every single time myself is because... well, I don't know why? Shit... why don't I? What is wrong with me?
Okay maybe another "downside" is the recoil lug is a piece of metal that slots into the stock/chassis instead of being attached to/integrated into the action. But that doesn't seem to affect anything of note, certainly not in a rifle capable of going 1,200 yards, as I've seen Tikkas do in competition.
I guess the only real downside is Tikka is owned by Beretta and their customer service is about as wonderful as being waterboarded.
1. Tikka T3 is based on Sako TRG-22, which was based on Tikka M55/65 I belive..
2. My 3 main rifles are now Tikka T3..
Two Lite SS in 223 and 308 and a 6,5x55 LR rifle.
Rest are just project rifles or walnut/blued nice weather rifles..
3. Also the recoil lug... I sure wasn't a fan, but I came around.
The Sako TRG line uses the same thing. Never seem to be a problem.
Blaser R8 uses a similar setup with a such recoil slot on the barrel (instead of action)... where you can remove the barrel countless times, and it basically returns to zero every time. Even on their 500 Jeffery barrel (or 338 Lapua barrels) :
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I’m not buying that any 700 based action is better in dirty environments than a Tikka/Sako. Especially in regards to the trigger.
Impact. I have a T3 CTR but am building a new rifle using the 747 specifically because of how smooth it is. EDIT: to be clear, the Impact is smooth moving the bolt back and forth, but the Tikka is significantly lighter when lifting and closing the bolt.
Tikkas gives you excellent value (and amazing factory accuracy), but the 700 platform simply gives you more options.
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If you already have the Tikka action, or prefit barrel, Tikka's action is gtg. If your'e building from scratch, I'd go w/ the custom that floats your boat.
I'm doing the former now because 1. I had the action and it's solid, 2. Chassis and mags already in hand. So a barrel and a chamber job. Except when your shooting buddy links you to a to good to pass up MPA Matrix chassis for a Tikka. After he linked you the in stock 6mm Bartlein barrel you bought two weeks earlier.
@Krob95
I'm doing the former now because 1. I had the action and it's solid, 2. Chassis and mags already in hand. So a barrel and a chamber job. Except when your shooting buddy links you to a to good to pass up MPA Matrix chassis for a Tikka. After he linked you the in stock 6mm Bartlein barrel you bought two weeks earlier.
@Krob95
Spending other peoples money is so much funIt's what I do pal, I encourage responsible upgrades, and that's it
Ask any new PRS shooter in New England how good i am at it haha
I like my Tikka action a lot more then my zermatt origin.
What do u like better? The origin was one of the ones I was looking at. I have almost decided to go with a Tikka. Just seems like the better deal.
MY origin was never all that smooth, and the bolt fells like it has a lot of slop in it. After running the origin in PRS matches for a few seasons I don’t like the controlled round feed feature. I’ve also had a few case extraction problems. The replaceable bolt head is real nice though. I’m not sayin origins suck, but those are the problems I had with mine over the years. My Tikka t3 action probably has ten thousand rounds cycled through it and have never had a problem, it feels like butter running the bolt. The Tikka trigger with an aftermarket springs feels and works great as well. Not as good as a trigger tech diamond, but good.
Ive been using the Tikka for the last two seasons. Only issues I see is sometimes you will see a hell of a deal on a stock or chassis for a Rem 700 based action and you wont see that for a Tikka If one comes up for sale it is usually close to retail and doesn't last long. The only issue I have ever had with mine is I broke the bolt stop pin and lost the bolt stop. The cheek piece on a KRG X ray works well for a bolt stop Easy fix but the pins are a little fragile. Trigger selection is not very good but you can make a pretty good trigger out of the Tikka trigger or you can get a Timney 2 stage its not a triggertech by no means but it is a decent trigger. I haven't tried a KRG or Bix and Andy but I am sure they are solid but spendy. I really like the 70 degree bolt throw as well. If you can get into a barreled action or used Rifle at a good price Tikka is the way to go.
Easy fix but the pins are a little fragile. Trigger selection is not very good but you can make a pretty good trigger out of the Tikka trigger or you can get a Timney 2 stage its not a triggertech by no means but it is a decent trigger. I haven't tried a KRG or Bix and Andy but I am sure they are solid but spendy. I really like the 70 degree bolt throw as well. If you can get into a barreled action or used Rifle at a good price Tikka is the way to go.Yea I think my plan at this point is to keep a eye out for a Tikka action or a used Tikka light to use as a donor gun. My Tac A1 will probably stay as is just bc I hate to take apart a gun that shoots so good. I haven't heard anything to sway me away from a Tikka. I do love the trigger tech, but I also have no gripes about the factory 2 stage trigger in my tac A1 that is 1.0 lbs and very crisp. The gun I build will probably get a TIMNEY just bc I want to try one. Thanks for all the replies. Seem like the only people I have talked to that push me towards a custom action have never owned a Tikka and that the custom action has to be better because they paid double what a Tikka action cost.
Shot new school vs old school today.
1. Tikka 6.5 Max, Vision Chassis, clipped lightened trigger spring, Bartlein 28 Med Palma, Ckyepod.
2. 700 full blueprint and fluted bolt by LRI in 300 RUM, A5 Sniper fill w/ cheek riser, Jewel BR, Krieger 28 MTU, LRA bipod.
Love them both, but old school FTW.
1. Tikka 6.5 Max, Vision Chassis, clipped lightened trigger spring, Bartlein 28 Med Palma, Ckyepod.
2. 700 full blueprint and fluted bolt by LRI in 300 RUM, A5 Sniper fill w/ cheek riser, Jewel BR, Krieger 28 MTU, LRA bipod.
Love them both, but old school FTW.
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Try an aftermarket spring on the Tikka trigger before you buy the Timney.
I love my tikka. I like shooting it almost as much as my AI.
I don't have it. Also doesn't work with lefty. One day I might try to call an engineer there and see if it can be modified.
There are threads on it.
KRG Midas trigger
I got my Midas today in the mail. The trigger was delivered in a very nicely embossed tin. Installation was very straight forward and no surprises as far as that was concerned. My goal with my Tikka build is to get as close in feel to a Sako TRG 22 as I could for as little money as possible...
www.snipershide.com
KRG Trigger for Tikka
I have seen rumblings about a KRG Mitas trigger for the Tikka T3x that has the safety lever in the trigger guard instead of on top but I can't seem to find any pictures or details. Did I misunderstand what was being said or do they make that?
www.snipershide.com
It's the other way around. The action is the standard. So if something is "out of tolerance" it will be the barrel.
Somehow I doubt those making "prefits" have a Tikka machining drawing showing all the dimensions and tolerances the action is held to.
And if you don't have the drawing, you can't say something is "out of tolerance" because you don't know the value of either the basic dimension nor it's allowable variation.
I guess that could be said with every aftermarket part. There is a standard tolerance that is held by most in the gun industry. After measuring 100s of recievers that barrel makers say they have, you could easily reverse engineer that tolerance. Being a tool maker, it's not that hard. They have said they are holding .001 and I haven't heard a single person get a prefit that didn't work.
Well its a fact. I competed with a T3 Tac that would fail to load and jam up in windy and sandy conditions. By the end of the match it was choking every few rounds. The inferior magazine system also contributes to this.
Impact just keeps going and going and going and going.
The Impact is specifically designed to not fail in those conditions. A regular Rem700… would also fail. A super tight tolerance custom action would also fail, older Defiance actions is one of them with that reputation.
I would be shocked if the small, boutique barrel makers that specialize in pre-fits have sunk the cash needed to get their hands on "hundreds" of receivers.
Let's talk Tikka in specific, since that's what this thread is about. I seriously, seriously doubt that Beretta Group would ever authorize Tikka to sell receivers, so anyone claiming to have measured hundreds of them would have had to buy hundreds of rifles, unscrew the barrels, and CMM all those receivers to get enough data to understand the process capability.
Note that measuring parts does NOT tell you what the nominal drawing dimension is nor its tolerance. Only the process mean and standard deviations. If the process isn't centered, what you think is the nominal dimension isn't.
There's more to this than just "measuring parts". You still need blueprints to understand it all.
What @308pirate said.
Pre-fits are a matter of making parts that fit/meet a tolerance, and hopefully/therefore don't force the system (barreled action) out of tolerance.
Anyone who has been shooting for a long while has experienced having a bunch of parts in tolerance (think 1911s), and the assembled system does not work.
The reason to buy an assembled rifle is to ensure, if from a reputable maker, the parts are in tolerance and the system is in tolerance, as well.
Pre-fits are a matter of making parts that fit/meet a tolerance, and hopefully/therefore don't force the system (barreled action) out of tolerance.
Anyone who has been shooting for a long while has experienced having a bunch of parts in tolerance (think 1911s), and the assembled system does not work.
The reason to buy an assembled rifle is to ensure, if from a reputable maker, the parts are in tolerance and the system is in tolerance, as well.
I'm a die hard tikka user, and have been using the T3 action in one form or another for about 20yrs at this point. My original T3 was a 25-06, had it faced off and now it's the base for my comp gun. Probably has about 10k on the action and trigger. That action setup is as smooth as any other custom I've come across, no exceptions. The one area that they win is bolt lift, even with a longer tac handle on the tikka. A 90deg custom just has less work to do since you can spread the lift out across 90deg instead of 70deg. The tikka loses nothing in parts availability short of a trigger, but then the stock trigger can easily be made to be very clean and light with just a spring. I've thought about a custom a bunch before, but can't bring myself to spend the extra 800-1k and gain no real function advantage. Find a pawn shop tikka and build it, save to extra for barrels.
I started on a Tikka TAC-A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor and it's definitely one of the better factory platforms to start on. Now, my Tikka is in an ACC chassis with a Timney T3 trigger, Benchmark barrel, and APA brake on it. After market parts are plentiful. I've been running it for 4 years and finally decided to build a full on custom gun a few months ago. I can say that you're not missing out on accuracy at all. Tikka factory CTR magazines can be finicky, which is why I moved to the ACC chassis in order to use AICS pattern mags. The bolt throw on custom actions might also be improved. My T3 has around 5,000+ rounds on it so it's very smooth. I went with a Lone Peak Fuzion on my custom build and have tried out a handful of other top actions. Sometimes the Tikka felt better than custom actions, other times not so much - but my Lone Peak and a few Impacts that I've run were unbelievably smooth, reliable, and a noticeable improvement. A few times my Tikka's bolt throw encountered binding in adverse conditions. I'm still not 100% sure what caused this, but I found that if I run the bolt slow and deliberately - this goes away. You could definitely win a match with a Tikka if that's your bag of donuts. For target or hunting, I wouldn't hesitate to get another T3. They're a solid platform.
Attachments
PVA was one of the first companies to offer tikka prefits (i think) b/c @bohem has in fact had his hands on hundreds of tikkas to measure to come up with an aggregate measurement for headspace on tikkas. He didnt offer prefits for them until he had that data base of numerous tikka receivers.
