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Rifle Scopes What are your thought on FFP?

#51
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

Bolt again, it goes with out sayin. It can be done with an SFP reticle, but ranging is only a small part of the reticle in my book. And i would like to see that shot.
 
#52
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but ranging is only a small part of the reticle in my book. And i would like to see that shot. </div></div>

+1 !
smile.gif
 
#53
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mram10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a huge advantage for the shooter on FFPs? Is it worth the money? Advantages? </div></div>

yes...big advantage. Much more versatile. Sort of a no brainer...too many other things you need to be thinking about than scope calculations. Especially when you first start out. Luckily there are FFP lenses that are affordable now...and new ones every year.

You should read this Zak Smith article:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/?p=1
 
#55
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

There are very very very few guys that can use a reticle to range, and be even close to accurate enough past 700 yards.
Therefore using a ffp scope to range is kinda a waiste.
past 600-700 yards.
The biggest problem I see with ffp scopes for hunting is not at high power, but at low power. When it is on 5 power you can hardly see reticle let alone at low light shoot an animal you just jumped up.
Yes i will concur in my hubble opinion range with range finder, add your incriments shoot your animal is far superior than using the reticle and hold over on the animal. all past 600 yds.
Depending on caliber if you sight gun in at 300 yds. Out to 400 just hold on animal and shoot ( big game animal not bobcat )
 
#56
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

Before you guys jump on me I am talking about taking animals at distance, not shooting steel or paper. You need all the prcision you can get when shooting animals.
Main reason if you are close, the animal is gone after shot.
When shooting steel you get 2nd chance.
If you are really close you might wound animal. ( bad )
 
#57
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

Thunderbolt, I'm guessing your statements are based on theory, not practice? Ever hunted with a FFP? I do, and I can tell you my experiences are nothing like your theories. Whether hunting coyotes, deer, or people... FFP is where its at.

... and I have no idea how tall my neighbor's tree is. I've never climbed it. haha!
 
#58
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before you guys jump on me I am talking about taking animals at distance </div></div>

If you are at distance, then why not increase magnification, making that "small reticle" problem go away?

If you are up close, then you are probably at low power, and the reticle looks more like a thick duplex. Every scope is different in this regard.

I'm telling you, if you have not personally tried hunting with FFP, buy one. Put it on your favorite hunting rifle, and practice with it. Then take it out hunting. If you aren't a convert... I'll eat my words.
 
#61
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Larry you are undoubtly going to come back with something that most college english professors cant comprehend, so save your energy. </div></div>

I <span style="font-style: italic">am</span> an English professor, or more accurately I <span style="font-style: italic">was</span>, and I have no idea what he says most of the time.

All I get is

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: "OilyOwl"</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Blah blah blah, blah blah. I'm an asshole, can't you tell? Blah blah blah. Blah.</div></div>
 
#62
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thunderbolt, I'm guessing your statements are based on theory, not practice? Ever hunted with a FFP? I do, and I can tell you my experiences are nothing like your theories. Whether hunting coyotes, deer, or people... FFP is where its at.

... and I have no idea how tall my neighbor's tree is. I've never climbed it. haha! </div></div>

Me thinks TB has much more experience hunting than you, quit trying to prove FFP superiority for every situation. You think it's better, great, if some hunters prefer SFP and think that it's better, that's their choice.
 
#63
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

Though I am extremely entertained, I think I got about 3 good posts "explaining" the advantages. Thank you for the info gentlemen. Next question: I always hunt with a range finder to backup my public math. Does this change thoughts on chosing a FFP?

Oily,
You make me laugh because you remind me of my very gruff uncle. God bless you.
 
#64
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

I will jump in..

comps - much rather have FFP because everything is staged and i rarely shoot on the highest power my scope has when playing with steel. Set multiple targets at multiple ranges, put a time limit on it and go. Hold over/under will make hits faster than dialing. Same with windage. FFP i know one mill is always one mill.

Swap to hunting...I HATE HATE HATE them. I have never had time to figure out how fast a deer was running, do the math and hold with a mill dot. Its always put the x in front where you think it needs to be and let loose. Most of the time it works and at least i get a shot off.

Low light, Turn the power down to 4 and try and see your crossharis. No workie in the woods. In a field its ok sometimes. but it is awful nice to be able to see them all the time.

I do like the clutter of dots in my scope. makes me all warm and fuzzy knowing what they do on max power and i do use them often. It is rare and its only when i have time to.
 
#68
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">different tools for different jobs......... </div></div>

I find the metric Crescent wrench to be the most useful tool.
 
#70
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

Just to stir the pot a bit more I DO like mills for everything and backwards turning turrets..I am calling Leupold today to see if i can swap to their M5 turret on the Mk4 yet. My dream scope for hunting would be a 2.5-10x 30mm tube and objective large enough to gather the light i need. mill adj. not weigh much and always freaking track when i dial.

for comps, I like my PR, but miss the S&B

 
#72
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me thinks TB has much more experience hunting than you,</div></div>

What does experience hunting, have to do with experience hunting with FFP... which I was referring to?

Use whatever the fuck you want, I could care less. Just don't go around making blanket statements that new people might construe as gospel. FFP works just fine for hunting WHERE I LIVE. Ain't no fucking woods here. I have you "woods" people to blame for all the camo that looks like a BLACK SUIT when you get past 50yds too.
 
#73
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me thinks TB has much more experience hunting than you,</div></div>

What does experience hunting, have to do with experience hunting with FFP... which I was referring to?

Use whatever the fuck you want, I could care less. Just don't go around making blanket statements that new people might construe as gospel. FFP works just fine for hunting WHERE I LIVE. Ain't no fucking woods here. I have you "woods" people to blame for all the camo that looks like a BLACK SUIT when you get past 50yds too. </div></div>

You're right, I'm wrong, please continue...
 
#74
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zeroed1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As long as it's an illuminated reticle... no problems hunting all legal hours w/ FFP with added benefits of proper subtension at all powers. non-illuminated... not so much.. </div></div>


It would be in Idaho, no illumination allowed
 
#75
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Try to shoot running coyotes at unknown distances and tell me it isnt EASIER with a FFP variable instead of a fixed 10x or a nightforce at 11 or 22x.</div></div>

I would guess that a running coyote at an unknown distance would be hard to hit with anything, but I could be wrong. I don't see why the FFP variable would provide much of an advantage over the fixed 10x though.

Please explain. Thanks.
 
#76
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

An illuminated reticle is illegal there? Wow... I guess to make after hours hunting a little harder. But at that point, if they are out poaching, I doubt having an illuminated scope would be a concern.
 
#77
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

In before the lock...........People i know OO comes off as a asshole but i beleive somewhere amongst his analytical 17th century rambling there proably is some words of good advice.I am not trying to cover for him or anything.Somehow i dont think he is being a dick if you read between the lines or think outside the box some of his words will make a little sense.I used to think boltripper was the same way(no offense ripper)But br has went out of his way to awnser a lot of my dumb ass questions.Sometimes to me they came off as smartass remarks but after i thought about them they started making sense...Again im not taking up for OO........im just saying......
To the op whatever works for you use that sfp,ffp,it doesnt matter.Just get a lot of practice with whatever you choose.....
 
#78
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matchking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I would guess that a running coyote at an unknown distance would be hard to hit with anything, but I could be wrong. I don't see why the FFP variable would provide much of an advantage over the fixed 10x though.

Please explain. Thanks.

</div></div>

you can zoom out for a wider field of view for movers or closer targets... and still use the same holdovers and leads for movers...
 
#80
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matchking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know my leads or holdovers for unknown distances. </div></div>



Who the hell does.......hehe
You know on how most people do it?????spray and pray my friend...
 
#81
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

I Re-read the post... I see your UNKNOWN distance implication. I'm referring to the benefits in general. This thread turned sour pretty quick. I guess it's a case of the mondays...
 
#82
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right, I'm wrong, please continue... </div></div>

Damn right you are wrong to think you know that FFP doesn't work well for hunting.

FFP's aren't all built the same. Some are thick, some are thin. Some are illuminated. Some are small, some are big.

Just because you can't choose the right one for your hunting situation isn't my problem, and people reading this thread shouldn't be lead to believe that they do not work. They do, and very well I might add. Saying FFP doesn't work well for hunting is just an ignorant blanket statement. If you stick to that story, then you either do not have any experience with them, or never tried to find a model that works.

Do you take a 36x benchrest scope and put it on your primary deer rifle? Unlikely. So why would you put a high power, super-fine FFP on a deer gun that you are using in the dark woods?
 
#84
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

For you folks with a bit more open of a mind, about the unknown distance statement.

I should quantify, by the time I squeeze the trigger, I have a pretty good idea of the distance. Thats the beauty of known subtensions at all powers. I don't even have to think about it really. I have looked at so many coyotes and deer through a mil reticle that I know about how far away they are at a single glance. I don't do any math, it just "clicks." Thousands of rounds on thousands of critters trained my brain.

Without the reticle subtensions being the same at all powers, I would not have that ability to just glance and shoot. I'd have to be sure to be one one power or the next... which is not cohesive when hunting. After switching to it, I have no idea how I got along without it. Its that much better.
 
#85
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer FFP, mostly for not having to have my scope on max power to utilize my reticle effectively. To me, if a scopes reticle doesn't subtend correctly at all ranges, it might as well be a duplex. </div></div>

EXACTLY.

Try to shoot running coyotes at unknown distances and tell me it isnt EASIER with a FFP variable instead of a fixed 10x or a nightforce at 11 or 22x. </div></div>


So you claim you can range/lead and calculate the solution on running coyotes, but if a guy uses a LRF to check the distances around his AO and dial he's a dumbass???? WOW!
 
#86
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 467</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In before the lock...........People i know OO comes off as a asshole but i beleive somewhere amongst his analytical 17th century rambling there proably is some words of good advice.I am not trying to cover for him or anything.Somehow i dont think he is being a dick if you read between the lines or think outside the box some of his words will make a little sense.I used to think boltripper was the same way(no offense ripper)But br has went out of his way to awnser a lot of my dumb ass questions.Sometimes to me they came off as smartass remarks but after i thought about them they started making sense...Again im not taking up for OO........im just saying......
To the op whatever works for you use that sfp,ffp,it doesnt matter.Just get a lot of practice with whatever you choose..... </div></div>

Amazing how after we learn the things we don't know the guys who were trying to teach us the lesson aren't such assholes anymore....:D
 
#87
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but if a guy uses a LRF to check the distances around his AO and dial he's a dumbass???? WOW! </div></div>

Show me where I said that.

... and if you can't train your brain to react instinctively based on what your eye sees in the damn scope... then I can't help you.
 
#88
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

So many of these treads get ridiculous. A scope is a tool, this tool comes in many different flavors: fixed, variable, SFP, FFP, turrets or not, thick reticles, thin reticles, illumination, Parallax adjustment, et al.

The right tool (scope) for coyote hunting in SD, is the wrong tool for brown bear hunting in coastal Alaskan alders at 20 yds, for example. Some hunting is better done with a SFP scope, and the biggest damn reticle you can find. Some shooting endeavors need the finest reticle available. One size does not fit all.

An FFP mil/mil scope may well be the "best" tool currently available for tactical comps, but that does not mean it is the "best" tool for every other shooting endeavor.

Use the right friggin tool for the job at hand. And sometimes that "right" tool is not what is popular, or what you would use, but it is the "right tool" because it works for the user.......

Bob
 
#89
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

I get your point bob. Nicely put.

It just pisses me off hearing people make blanket statements that are definitely inaccurate. You are right, one size does NOT fit all. There are many different FFP scopes, as there are many different SFP scopes. You can find a scope that works for you.

I simply wanted to point out that FFP works VERY well for me in a hunting capacity... as it does for quite a lot of folks.
 
#90
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

+1 on what BobinNC said.
Most hunting shooting scenarios are hold on hair anyways. A simple duplex reticle can be used for ranging quite effectively and yes if it is SFP which most are you do have to range on the magnification setting you initially set up for.
 
#91
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For you folks with a bit more open of a mind, about the unknown distance statement.

I should quantify, by the time I squeeze the trigger, I have a pretty good idea of the distance. Thats the beauty of known subtensions at all powers. I don't even have to think about it really. I have looked at so many coyotes and deer through a mil reticle that I know about how far away they are at a single glance. I don't do any math, it just "clicks." Thousands of rounds on thousands of critters trained my brain.

Without the reticle subtensions being the same at all powers, I would not have that ability to just glance and shoot. I'd have to be sure to be one one power or the next... which is not cohesive when hunting. After switching to it, I have no idea how I got along without it. Its that much better. </div></div>


You're a funny lil dude. I love reading your interpretations of what people say. Keep telling everyone their preferences are wrong, this is great.
 
#92
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't even have to think about it really. I have looked at so many coyotes and deer through a mil reticle that I know about how far away they are at a single glance. I don't do any math, it just "clicks." Thousands of rounds on thousands of critters trained my brain. </div></div>

Rabbits are safe though.
 
#97
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blah blah blah</div></div>


You're a funny lil dude. I love reading your interpretations of what people say. Keep telling everyone their preferences are wrong, this is great. </div></div>

Amen brother.

Pick the one you like and learn it well.
Both have their place, and that place for SFP just happens to be on rifles I don't own.

I dig the "in before the lock" comments, its a quicker tipoff than a truck with an ArfCom logo on the rear window!

For those that can't take OO's blunt (but often well based in reality) comments, here ya go:

ignore-button-demotivational-poster.jpg

 
#98
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have looked at so many coyotes and deer through a mil reticle that I know about how far away they are at a single glance. I don't do any math, it just "clicks." Thousands of rounds on thousands of critters trained my brain.

</div></div>

So, I know you have stated that you can't help me with the magic ability to view a species in the scope and instantly make all the necessary judgments to fire a round that is sure to connect. However in my pursuit of the skill I need to know one thing. How many yards +or- are there in an "about"?

You started your arguement saying that FFP for hunting was an advantage due to it providing known subtensions that could be used for assessing distance and speed of the targeted game. After the bullshit flag was flown, you now are down to saying you are just making a best guess based on experience. So which road are you on....the objective use of a unit of measure or just SWAG and dump it?
 
#99
Re: What are your thought on FFP?

blah blah blah.

We've got 129 coyotes killed in the last month and half. A good many of which have my bullets in them. I have nothing to prove to you people. So keep talking out the side of your face. I'll be out killing things with my inferior FFP.
 
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