What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

[Machine]

With the high potential for rapid inflation and interest rates in the decimal points for savings, I might as well put my money to some use. Here is what I am looking for:

•The 'Glock' of .308's. I had an AR-10 years ago that was a POS as far as reliability. Constant FTFs, factory mags and aftermarket both. I cannot stand to make that expensive mistake again, since I traded it back in for half of what I paid. I want something that is the pinnacle of reliability, can fire any ammo. I would have a preference for semi-auto, but not at the expense of reliability. Would this be an M1A? If so, I would appreciate any commentary in the wide variety of models. I saw a SOCOM 16" that looked sweet, but I don't know much about it yet.

Thanks for responding. I have been dormant for a long while and appreciate your input.

Matt

 

[RobertB]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

AIAW I would think in a bolt. Semi Auto Hmmmmm Maybe Glock will start

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Without question - AI.


Good luck

 

[bm11]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

AIAW if bolt guns are allowed. If we are talking semi auto, and not necessarily precision, HK91 comes to mind.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

If you are wanting a semi... POF without a doubt.

 

[bm11]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

SCAR is a can't jam option as well.

 

[younggun22]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I would have to go with the FAL. You'll get about 1.5-2MOA from it and will feed anything you can throw at it.

 

[Bob Shaver]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

FAL or HK-91. It's a Ford vs. Chevy deal and both are rock solid reliable.

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I've seen HK91's fail, but I've never seen an FAL fail.

I really don't think POF or SCAR has been around long enough to make judgments on reliability.

 

[MidwestPX]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I would vote for a FAL. The landscape of the .308 ARs has changed pretty radically recently and I would wait for long term reliability/durability before recommending one as the "Glock" of .308s.

 

[Broadway]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

The FAL is a proven design with decades of service and huge numbers seeing real world use. It works, it's easy to service, and is not finicky on what you feed it. The SCAR has potential but it's still early for the "Glock" of .308's title.

 

[prbulldog]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

If your a lefty, don't go with the Fal(it will burn up your right forarm).

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

you are all so far off i threw up in my mouth a little the best semi auto to go with is the springfield armory m1a national match it will never go down in value and unlike a ar10 it is a good looking gun

 

[Machine]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Cool - thanks for input, guys. It looks like FAL might be the way to go. Heck, the FAL is even rightfully ugly like a Glock! The AI stuff is some high$$ stuff - yikes!

So follow-up question, then. If you were to recommend a FAL, which make/model would you go for and why?

 

[longeyes]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

My vote would be for an M1a---they seem to eat any thing and are reliable
but then, I'm biased

 

[younggun22]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: prbulldog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your a lefty, don't go with the Fal(it will burn up your right forarm). </div></div>

Im left handed and have never had that problem...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

16" POF, but I'm a little biased....

If you gotta go FAL (my runner up recommendation) I'm partial to the L1A1 pattern (I like the charging handle better <span style="text-decoration: line-through">than the FAL's reciprocating meat hammer</span>).

 

[EdO]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I would be interested in hearing about the HK91 "failure" . . . .

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

READ THIS AND YOU TELL ME.

Link: http://www.dsarms.com/pdf/Nine%20Hour10.000.pdf

 

[kraigWY]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Want reliability in a semi, reasonably priced get a CMP M1 Garand. Not to picky about ammo, cheap to shoot either by reloading or buying surplus ammo from CMP.

M1As are highly reliable but a bit pricy these days.

 

[i_rep]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

YEP, DSA for an FAL.

The show SHOOTING GALLERY did a show just dedicated to the FAL, I would check it out.

My vote would proly be the POF.

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

FAL's charging handle doesn't reciprocate...

I've always thought the Para 18" bbl is pretty sweet.
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Carbine-PARA-Rifle-308-Cal----SA58CP18/productinfo/SA58CP18/

Failure of the HK91 was a failure to eject. I think it ripped the rim right off the case. Snow was on the ground and the guy who owned it isn't one for cleaning on a regular basis. Pretty sure he needed to really clean the heck out of the chamber and flutes. It could have very well been the ammo he was shooting. Guy likes to shoot terrible ammo.

Another buddy had an early PTR-91 that was having all sorts of failures to feed, but that was just some teething issues. Not really an HK91, but it seems the newer PTR's have a great rep.

I saw a G3 at a machinegun shoot that was put out of commission after the buttstock shattered. Not sure how that happened.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Why hasn't the AK-47 been mentioned, it is a .308 caliber?!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

AK47 is definitely the Glock of .311's

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YEP, DSA for an FAL.

The show SHOOTING GALLERY did a show just dedicated to the FAL, I would check it out.

My vote would proly be the POF. </div></div>

Preview: http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/Shoo...85gXV7ahFp_NDqr

I'll have to record it. thanks, i_rep

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Are you looking and staying with a semi-auto or are you looking for a bolt action .308??

 

[bmt]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

FWIW:

I bought the DPMS AP4 (16 inch carbine model) and then had it gone over by a trusted AR Armorer.

I've run classes with it (Urban Precision RIfle at ThunderRanch) and had NO issues.

Its been my experience that no one makes a perfect AR. Many are very good, but everything has flaws.

An experienced armorer who knows how to find flaws and is being paid to find them and some stress testing has given me more comfort than buying a respected name and putting it in the safe.

Tha being said, I cannot dismiss the FAL, HK91, or the M1A. Timed tested and proven--all of them. I chose the AR platfrom in a 308 in order to reduce my learning curve--I already run the AR-15.

Just me 2 cents,

Your mileage may vary . . . .

BMT

 

[znztivguy]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

IF you are looking for the Glock of .308's the POF is definitely not the GLOCK. We are talking about price and reliability and function...I would put my vote in for the FAL system. It is ultra reliable and is time proven. Second would be a M1 type rifle. Those have been around forever and are still being used in the military. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pe5b]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

FAL. Reliability and sheer number in circulation.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Until I see some other company willing to run 10,000 rounds through their weapon in 9 hours... in my opinion the DSA FAL is king. I actually wish all of the rifle manufacturer's mentioned in this thread would do it.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">16" POF, but I'm a little biased....

If you gotta go FAL (my runner up recommendation) I'm partial to the L1A1 pattern (<span style="font-weight: bold">I like the charging handle better than the FAL's reciprocating meat hammer)</span>.

</div></div>

This is not an accurate statement. None of the FAL charging handles move during firing.

 

[was21]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

FAL

91's if you can live with a sheet metal receiver that can be bent to nonfunctionality after a fall [BTDT]...just TRY to straighten one of those in the field! ha!

...and yes , I know the Fal has a sheetmetal topcover....it is much easier to fix.

just my opinion
YMMV

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I'd have to say AK in 762x39. If you want to step up to 762x51 NATO, then Saiga is the way to go. Not ubiquitous mag availability like 762x39 but there is no shortage of this platform in use.

If you go down the FAL route, a) avoid the current production DSAs b) go for something built using an Imbel receiver by a good known builder, c) and avoid the cut down gas system DSAs of any vintage.

Though I have not had one in hand and on CDNN's call list every time they get one in, the Kel-Tec RFB most certainly has my attention. Accessory availability for them is an issue IMO right now. It would be nice to be able to scope it and slide the long barrel in as part of the system.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: was21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FAL

91's if you can live with a sheet metal receiver that can be bent to nonfunctionality after a fall [BTDT]...just TRY to straighten one of those in the field! ha!

...<span style="font-weight: bold">and yes , I know the Fal has a sheetmetal topcover....it is much easier to fix.</span>

just my opinion
YMMV </div></div>

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until I see some other company willing to run 10,000 rounds through their weapon in 9 hours... in my opinion the DSA FAL is king.</div></div>

Kitty spit.....My HK would do that in it's sleep, and still be a more accurate rifle than any brand new FAL.....

Damn, I just remembered Shankster gave us topless Jen on the beach vid...Never mind, FAL Rules! Hahahaa!

-Pat

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">16" POF, but I'm a little biased....

If you gotta go FAL (my runner up recommendation) I'm partial to the L1A1 pattern (<span style="font-weight: bold">I like the charging handle better than the FAL's reciprocating meat hammer)</span>.

</div></div>

This is not an accurate statement. None of the FAL charging handles move during firing. </div></div>

I stand corrected, I thought the charging handle did reciprocate on the FAL metric pattern.
-not the first time I've been wrong, probably won't be the last.

I still like the L1A1's charging handle better though....

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why hasn't the AK-47 been mentioned, it is a .308 caliber?!</div></div>

Try running .308 diameter projectiles through an AK and see what the results are.

My vote is on the FAL (DSA personal preference) or arguably the Saiga 7.62x51 (if we exclude the magazines from the equation).

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

+ 1 for DSA and POF--2 best choices in my opinion

 

[eastTexBulldog]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I'd go FAL or m1a

 

[VKC]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

POF or LWRC. Robinson XCR if you are looking for something different.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Why hasn't any of these other manufacturers duplicated the 10,000 rounds in 9 hours torture test on their rifles that DSA did?

They probably wouldn't make it through the test.

 

[Jedi]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

308 semiauto

Gotta be M1A

best value CMP

best bang for buck new Fulton Armoury

thou one would be hard pressed to beat a CMP M1A dropped in JAE stock

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

Yes, the AK47/Saiga 308 thingie.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the AK47/Saiga 308 thingie. </div></div>

When they run 10,000 rounds in 9 hours through the Saiga .308 or any of the other rifles mentioned and throw the magazines and steaming rifle in the mud and snow. Then test the head space. I will agree.

Until then .... I think the other rifle companies have something to prove. If it is that easy... send their rifle and ammo to the folks that tested the DSA and prove it.

Where is Mark Larue's OBR and the others listed when you need them?

 

[scotharr]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

If reliability is top criteria and you want an accurate rifle on a budget, just get a R700 bolt action. Things don't have to be complicated.... Feeding is probably the weak link and you could get an AICS magazine assembly to create a truly reliable setup.

IMHO, none of the 308 semi's come close to being called "Glock-like," definitely not an M1/M1A.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the AK47/Saiga 308 thingie. </div></div>

When they run 10,000 rounds in 9 hours through the Saiga .308 or any of the other rifles mentioned and throw the magazines and steaming rifle in the mud and snow. Then test the head space. I will agree.

Until then .... I think the other rifle companies have something to prove. If it is that easy... send their rifle and ammo to the folks that tested the DSA and prove it.

Where is Mark Larue's OBR and the others listed when you need them?</div></div>

The DSA is not the only semi-auto that's been through significant endurance testing. Considering that the Saiga is a basic Kalashnikov design, based upon the single most common weapon in human history behind the knife, I have a hard time believing that it's incapable of surviving the same sort of torture testing as the FAL. As mentioned, the only potential weak point in that weapon is the magazine, which suffers from a lack of development and refinement present in other, older rifle systems.

 

[shankster..]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

I can accept that the design is clearly field proven and neglected and abused my monkeys for decades in the worst field conditions. I would like to see it take the challenge, That is all.

 

[Machine]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you go down the FAL route, a) avoid the current production DSAs b) go for something built using an Imbel receiver by a good known builder, c) and avoid the cut down gas system DSAs of any vintage. </div></div>

More details/background please? I think I am headed in the DSA FAL direction.

Any comments on the forearm mount failure in the torture test? Is this a risk area or was that never used in a production model?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

No, I think Shankster has a valid point. Until then, I still tend to favor the basic Kalashnikov design for durable utilitarian needs that don't require investments that may be beyond my means.

Actually, my main preference is for the Saiga 100 .30-'06, but this topic specifies the .308.

Greg

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: What is the 'Glock' of .308's?

AKs are a moot point for me. Then again the reliability factor is a secondary concern when you REALLY need it(metal and lead flying through the air).

I've jammed AKs(non-Soviet types are the worst), an FAL(not a DSA), a MP5. It really doesn't matter. Guns are all machines. They will all jam at some time. That is the nature of a complex machine. Breakdown will evenyually happen.

Until then go with the DSA.