Rifle Scopes What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

[BaileyMoto]

First of all, first post here...so hello from Iraq.

I'll be returning for R&R on the 22nd and looking for an optic for a Remington SPS Tactical in .223. I have decided to go with the Bushnell 4200 with Mildot/.mil turrets, which includes the FFP reticle. I decided on this particular scope, as it seems to be not only one of the only FFP .mil scopes under $1000, but definitely one of the best.

I am stuck between going with a 3-12 or 6-24, however. Ideally, I'd prefer 3-24, but I suppose I have to be realistic. For a rifle that has a primary use of Target and Varmint, what would YOU personally choose? The price isn't an issue, long as it lands in the under 1k mark.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dantrom]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I have been under the impression that the more mag power the more likeliness for paralax error. Less mag less chance or error!?!?

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I forgot to mention Vortex...

I know nothing about them, but the price point seems to be spot on. Any thoughts or concerns regarding Vortex when compared up against the Bushnell 4200's?

I have never looked through a Viper, but I do like their reticle MUCH better.

 

[chili77]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

At what a target- and what a varmintdistance?

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chili77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At what a target- and what a varmintdistance? </div></div>

I am just now getting into bolt rifles (I come from mostly m4/AR-15's and its varients), but I would say 50-400 yards or so. Most of my previous shooting has been inside 200-300 yards. I'm anxious to get into more long range shooting and putting together a setup that will work decently within 500 yards, until I become proficient at longer ranges (which will likely dictate a larger caliber).

I shoot mostly pdogs, rabbits, etc.. but I also take yotes any chance I get. Just wanting something that will work well for now, but allow me to build my skills out to further range.

 

[chili77]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

That makes it a difficult answer.
Rabbits f.e. are small. That requires a high mag.
But they are fast what requires a low mag. (field of view).

What about a Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP?

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chili77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That makes it a difficult answer.
Rabbits f.e. are small. That requires a high mag.
But they are fast what requires a low mag. (field of view).

What about a Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP? </div></div>

Yep, I actually came across that exact scope after I posted this. The viper offers some excellent options for the price. On paper, it's a superior scope. I just need to find out how the clarity is and overall quality control. I read somewhere that the Viper PST compares to the Leupold VX-II.

 

[chili77]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

You'll have to find out how you can look through one.
I think it's the only possibility you can answer your own question.

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I have a 3-12x scope and pdog hunted with it too... could see them out to about 350 yds in the tall prairie grass - maybe 400 but they started looking pretty small. For coyotes - that mag would be ok... i don't have the greatest 3-12x scope either - the more clarity, the easier to make out the pdog at that distance. It would be definitely good for a 50 yrd on the run shot! I've mounted a 5-25x falcon menace on it now - can't wait to try it.

I still think my leupold 4-16x50 has the best sight picture.

 

[steve123]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BaileyMoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chili77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At what a target- and what a varmintdistance? </div></div>

I am just now getting into bolt rifles (I come from mostly m4/AR-15's and its varients), but I would say 50-400 yards or so. Most of my previous shooting has been inside 200-300 yards. I'm anxious to get into more long range shooting and putting together a setup that will work decently within 500 yards, until I become proficient at longer ranges (which will likely dictate a larger caliber).

I shoot mostly pdogs, rabbits, etc.. but I also take yotes any chance I get. Just wanting something that will work well for now, but allow me to build my skills out to further range.

</div></div>

It's about impossible to find a scope that's perfect for every type of application.

The higher magnification variable would be my choice for pdogs.Either FFP or SFP.

The problem with FFP variables is that at their lowest power the reticle becomes so small that good concentration is involved to see use them at that setting.So IMO FFP wouldn't be the best choice for hunting if you plan on using the lower mag allot.

Also I'm assuming you mean that you shoot rabbits when they appear out in the pdog towns farther out or snipe them from a fixed position.In which case the same scope you use for pdogs is perfect for this totherwise you'd just use your 22...AR...shotgun for running rabbits closer in,right ???

Good luck with your choice.Not an easy decision

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BaileyMoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chili77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At what a target- and what a varmintdistance? </div></div>

I am just now getting into bolt rifles (I come from mostly m4/AR-15's and its varients), but I would say 50-400 yards or so. Most of my previous shooting has been inside 200-300 yards. I'm anxious to get into more long range shooting and putting together a setup that will work decently within 500 yards, until I become proficient at longer ranges (which will likely dictate a larger caliber).

I shoot mostly pdogs, rabbits, etc.. but I also take yotes any chance I get. Just wanting something that will work well for now, but allow me to build my skills out to further range.

</div></div>

It's about impossible to find a scope that's perfect for every type of application.

The higher magnification variable would be my choice for pdogs.Either FFP or SFP.

The problem with FFP variables is that at their lowest power the reticle becomes so small that good concentration is involved to see use them at that setting.So IMO FFP wouldn't be the best choice for hunting if you plan on using the lower mag allot.

Also I'm assuming you mean that you shoot rabbits when they appear out in the pdog towns farther out or snipe them from a fixed position.In which case the same scope you use for pdogs is perfect for this totherwise you'd just use your 22...AR...shotgun for running rabbits closer in,right ???

Good luck with your choice.Not an easy decision

</div></div>

You are correct with your assumptions. I live and shoot in the southwest, so acquiring a fix on a jackrabbit at a further distance is a somewhat regular occurrence. Not as often as my known pdog spots, but it happens. So to answer the previous question...no, I won't be necessarily chasing down fast moving rabbits with this particular rifle. My m4ergy takes the front spot for those particular jobs.

My M4ergy has a Trijicon AccuPoint (triangle reticule) 1-4x scope and fits a great role for many smaller varmints within 100 yards, and somewhat larger ones out to 200'ish, depending. I want this rifle to fill the longer distance void, as well as get myself into long range shooting.

Anyhoo, I think my question has been answered at this point. I'll likely spring for a 6-24x if I go with the Bushnell, but I am now also seriously considering the Vortex 4-16x. The options and magnification seem about perfect. I'm just questioning their scopes, as it seems their quality control may be a little short of what I would expect a near $1000 scope to be. Some of the reviews are suggesting that they won't pass a box test, as well as some various glass complaints. I'd wait to see if they move beyond their growing pains, but I sort of need (want) something now.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

i know its not on the list but i would recommend the leupold vx III 4.5x14x40 varmint hunter reticle then send it in for m1 knobs. I honestly think this is one of the best all around scopes available if you put the knobs on it. it has a great thin reticle with good holdovers, m1 allow you to dial in if you have the time. they have 100moa of elev./wind adjustment, they are light.

Just so you know i am not bias i have owned at least 5 nxs, 5 uso, uncountable leupolds, bushnell elite 4200's, premier and currently have a s&b on my match rifle. my 204 pdog rifle is currently wearing a vxIII 6.5x20 varmint hunter only because it was a good deal i would prefer the 4.5x14.

hope this helps

 

[Chopperguy]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i know its not on the list but i would recommend the leupold vx III 4.5x14x40 varmint hunter reticle then send it in for m1 knobs. </div></div>

I just sent in this exact scope and had the CDS knobs installed. it'll be going with me to the prairie dog fields of Montana tomorrow. Range time with the reticle & knobs was a pleasure and I look forward to holding off the hords of charging prairie dogs with it on my 204 Ruger predator rifle. (Among others!)

That being said I mostly use a 3-12 for my varmint hunting/shooting rigs. Never need much more that 6-10x but it is nice to have once and a while. My scopes are either Swarovski, Kahles, S&B or Night Force. I like them all.

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

Thanks for the suggestions and I do appreciate hearing feedback about something not on the list.

The reason I am considering the Bushnell (and Vortex) is due to the mil/.mil setup. Do I 'need' this? Eh, absolutely not. However, after doing a decent bit of research, I've found the idea of being able to dial adjustments via a mil/.mil setup to be quite intriguing. FFP is also obviously not required, but I figure if I can get the option at under $1000, it'd be nice to not have to dial a specific magnification in order to use it.

I may be asking too much for a sub $1000 scope, I don't know. As of now, however, the Bushnell and Viper seem to fit the bill. I have used a few 4200 series scopes and they are plenty for my current optical needs. If the Viper has equal glass, I believe I'd be more than happy with it.

Pulling up the Leupold now...again, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[wschreiber]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I had a Vortex PST 6x24 FFP MOA/MOA on order since February for a 260 long range hunting rig being built by Jim See at Center Shot rifles. The rifle is due next month and I am taking it to Wyoming at the end of September. Once it became obvious my scope would not arrive in time to develop a good hunting load and verify drops, I started researching other options. I too looked at the 4200 6x24 FFP, but I was put off by the lack of elevation (45 MOA). I had a chance to look at a Sightron S3 8x32 LRMD and was very impressed with the optical quality. I have a Leupold Mk4 6.5X20 TMR on my R700P 300WM and the glass on the Sightron seems much clearer. I went ahead and canceled my PST order today (they really screwed up this product launch in my opinion) and ordered a 6x24x50 S3 (100 MOA!!!). I am giving up the FFP, matched reticle, and uncapped turrets, but I have yet to read any negative reviews of the Sightron products and that counts for a hell of alot in my book. Hopefully Vortex will be able to work out the issues with the PST's, and I wish I could wait, but it is what it is. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[jwb47]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

well I have something for you to consider . yesterday I went to the fun store to get some powder and while I was browsing the optics and they had a leupold mk4 4x14 with exposed nobs mildot reticule and side focus and beside it was a leupold mark ar in 6x18x40 with mildot reticule adjustable objective lense and semi target nobs that had a bullet drop compensator i understand leupold will make you new nobs pretty resonable. anyway I ask one of the guys behind the counter if we could take them both outside and look through them side by side . the 4x14 was clear and sharp like you would expect but to my suprise the mark ar in 6x18 wasnt to shabby . no it wasnt as clear as the mark 4 but it was a nice looking optic and I believe the retail price was 525.00. you just might want to look through one of them before you wonder off with some other brand. one more thing I think if I were to be in the 750-850 dollar price range i would save a few more bucks and go with the leupold 4x14 it was 1050.00

 

[scotharr]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I'd look for a used Leupold Mark IV rather than the Bushnell...for sure.

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

When will Leupold get with the current 'tactical' trends and start offering .mil turrets?

Heck, from my understanding, some mil units, such as 1st Marine Recon (don't quote me on that) have been using .mil turrets with S&B glass.

Just seems like such a no-brainer/dummy proof setup.

 

[Bugs Bunny]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

If you are active duty Leupold has a discount but you will need contact them via email to look over their prices.

Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm (30mm) M1 the similar 4.5-14x40mm with tall covered knobs is $300 less.

thinking to get one myself.

 

[popeye089]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

+1 I'd be looking for a used Luepold or go for a new one, I know a lot of people here bash them but from my experience in the past I still like them, I know there are better and I do own better but I also have some leupold's

 

[cyrekzz]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

yeah - i think they're light, compact for the most part (4-14x50) and track well. With that, in combo with a clear picture and no 2nd diopter on the eyepiece to have to screw around with. I like the side focus on mine. Now i just wish there was a 4 - 14/16ish x 50 with FFP for the leupold.

 

[scotharr]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyrekzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah - i think they're light, compact for the most part (4-14x50) and track well. With that, in combo with a clear picture and no 2nd diopter on the eyepiece to have to screw around with. I like the side focus on mine. Now i just wish there was a 4 - 14/16ish x 50 with FFP for the leupold. </div></div>
I prefer their 40mm OBJ: perfect.

 

[reich10]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

based on the fact that 12x magnification would make a target/varmint at 400 yards appear to be only 33.33 yards away I would say the 3-12x will suffice. good luck

 

[bward]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

I agree with reich. 12X is plenty.

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

Thanks for all the replies, you guys have been very helpful.

Now, with all of that....

If I want this particular rifle to dub in for competitive shooting out to 600 yards, would you still suggest 12x?

I have participated in zero matches, but I'd like to dive into some basic matches that my local club puts on. I was reading some of their material and it seems that it's pretty common that these folks use scopes up to 25x and beyond.

 

[steve123]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BaileyMoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the replies, you guys have been very helpful.

Now, with all of that....

If I want this particular rifle to dub in for competitive shooting out to 600 yards, would you still suggest 12x?

I have participated in zero matches, but I'd like to dive into some basic matches that my local club puts on. I was reading some of their material and it seems that it's pretty common that these folks use scopes up to 25x and beyond. </div></div>

Once in a great while I've had to identify a very small target in tactical matches,"mini playing cards".If you shot the wrong card you were penalized.A -0 score could be achieved on that stage if you weren't careful.That's where extra mag(24X)would help.On the other hand because the Bushnell 3-12 focuses down to 10 yards it would help on the occasional stage where you have to shoot extremely close.

I personally prefer extra mag for shooting groups,seeing splats on steel at extreme ranges and other uses.

The only thing I don't like about the Bushnell 6-24 FFP is the amount of travel,around 13 mils.That's because I shoot beyond 1000Y sometimes.A 20 MOA base would help remedy the problem some.

 

[scotharr]

Re: What would YOU get.. 3-12x or 6-24x Target/Varm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BaileyMoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the replies, you guys have been very helpful.

Now, with all of that....

If I want this particular rifle to dub in for competitive shooting out to 600 yards, would you still suggest 12x?

I have participated in zero matches, but I'd like to dive into some basic matches that my local club puts on. I was reading some of their material and it seems that it's pretty common that these folks use scopes up to 25x and beyond. </div></div>

Depends on what you mean by "competitive shooting"....lots of different options. For F-class, a 3-12 would be a great way to start. I used a 2.5-10 for almost a year and my scores steadily climbed. For F-Class, I think a 20x scope is just about perfect and now I have a Weaver fixed 24x for this purpose. But, a 3-12 is much more versatile and will allow you to shoot really good scores, so just get started with what you have.