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That was your first mistake............
Happened today....guy would adjust his scope to try (TRY) to get hits on paper, then when he's close he kept finger fucking the windage turret. I asked him what he was doing, he told me re-zeroing the turrets. He was putting them back to zero and didn't understand why he was no longer hitting anything. Got him back in the game and I saw him reach for the turrets. I said what are you doing, he said I'm going to re-zero them. I told him it doesn't work that way, stop fucking with them and shoot. Dude's scope cost more than my entire suppressed rifle setup.
Honestly, the German popped into my head. I thought, I'll go be poor over here and hit what I'm shooting at.
Guy at the range today said his 28 nosler still shot great with over 2k through it. Asked him how far he's had to chase the lands and he looked at me like I was tarded. Proceeds to not be able to hit the broad side of a barn.
I have had one spirited debate on weather a 6.5 creedmoor has the energy required to hunt deer.
Also if you clean your barrel it will never shoot straight again.
Also if you clean your barrel it will never shoot straight again.
Had a scope many years ago that allowed the turrets to be "re-zeroed." You didn't actually move them. but loosened setscrews and moved the "sleeves" to zero. May have been a Zeiss.
This is precisely what his does. You have to remove the knob and set it to zero. He was just turning them back. Hell, I've even got a couple of Nikons that after you zero the scope, you pull them up to disengage them and turn them to zero, then let them back down.
Only one? Thats a daily argument where I work. The tards say that 260 is fine but 6.5 isn't, 243 works but 6mm is for varmints only etc.
No amount of simple metric to inch conversions or bullet speed/weight data can get through their thick skulls.
hmm 6.5x55 and 260 is Commonly used in Norway for moose.
let alone the amount of deer I know dropped in Minnesota from 243’s by family members.
I myself am a big fan of the .243. Also the 223 is a great deer round. But keep that between you and me because that might cause some heads to explode.
Me: This is the last rifle I'm gonna buy.
"Why is there AK ammo in a SKS stripper clip?"
I have personally been told Asians belong with swords not guns.
30 minutes later he was still trying to sight in his fancy bolt action at 100 yards and have yet to hit paper.
30 minutes later he was still trying to sight in his fancy bolt action at 100 yards and have yet to hit paper.
Engineer in me is crying blood with continuation of this conversation.
Stiffness of any structural member is defined by second moment of inertia which is related to third power of height in direction of bending. Weight of said member is related only to the area of crossection. THEREFORE when you take set weight of material, lets use 1 kg of steel formed into a barrel with lenght of 500 mm, solid rod would have smallest second moment of inertia and therefore smallest relative stiffness. If you just bore a hole through the rod, it will become lighter and have slighly smaller stiffness.
Now if you keep the mass at 1 kg but form a tube, the material is distributed further away from central axis and it will be stiffer but still the same weight. Now when you flute the barrel, the material is removed and the barrel becomes lighter again AND stiffness decreases. However, because of the nature of stiffness, the barrel will loose more stiffness than weight.
Now why I beam has higher load capacity than solid rectangular section of same outer dimensions is because steel is pretty heavy. The beam has to carry its self weight and whatever is left over of its capacity can be used to support structure attached to it. Bending capacity for solid rectangular section is higher than for I beam of same height and width but it is wasted to support the beam itself.
Back to barrels. Rifle barrel is relatively short considering statics, it has initial deflection which is pretty much irrelevant for the accuracy. The problem of accuracy comes mainly from vibration. Sound, aka mechanical pressure wave travels 5960 m/s in steel. Basically by the time bullet exits the barrel, initial shock of the powder deflagrating in case has travelled six times to barrel end and back and the barrel is experiencing some kind of vibration.
Interesting point here: if you put a weight at the end of the barrel, you create a node which transforms the waveform of the vibration. That's why especially on thin barrels it's common to have POI shift with suppressor or heavy muzzle brake. Accuracy-vise solution is easy, add mass to barrel and reduce length until the vibration becomes so minimal it doesn't affect accuracy, then you have only the bullet behaviour and shooter error to fight with. Also why some disciplines of shooting have restriction for barrel weight.
Fluting is solution to problem where stiff accurate barrel needs to be transported longer distances than from car to bench at range. Distribute same mass outward from central axis and you get stiffer profile for same weight OR almost as stiff barrel for somewhat lower weight. Now if you just hammer out a barrel it has bunch of internal stresses in it. Then you go ahead and cut grooves and start to heat up the profile the shit gets weird.
Or actually not weird, just highly unpredictable. That can be done away with using high quality steel, experimenting to find good profile, then developing a production method that can produce repeatable dimensions and material properties with good reliability. That is why rifles with fluted barrels AND accuracy guarantees from factory cost what they cost.
Also if someone quotes me as their contribution to this thread they can go fuck themselves.
First, my response was a year and half ago. That section of this thread was about fluted barrel strength versus solid barrel strength. In which the original posted that fluted wasn't as strong as solid. If you look up a few posts of mine you'll see I used the i-beam analogy to show that "reduced material" structural members can be every bit as strong, or stronger, depending on needs than solid ones.
If you want to go into the minutia details you can try to prove it whichever way you want. But, past a certain point "solid" isn't as good as it looks on paper.
Other than tearing up my "analogy" I have no reason as to why you went back a year and a half to take something out of context?
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Did you go fuck yourself before you quoted him? It was a prerequisite.
Well I just found this thread and after two pages of back and forth misunderstanding I couldn’t help myself. Then I was past halfway of the essay when I realized the issue might not be relevant anymore.
apparently the response was in need because FLUTING A BARREL DOES NOT MAKE IT STRONGER YOU DENSE MF.
Somewhere translation gets lost. I wasn't saying it got stronger. Due to the retained metal in the areas that are left, it retains it's strength.
I'm not sure you are worthy of appreciation of this, nor of the pics of me fucking myself.
I believe we have arfcom to blame for this mental retardation
Was at the range and shooting at 200 yards with my bolt action. This guy two benches away cussing up a storm trying to hit the metal plates at the same distance finger fudging his scope every shot for about 20 rounds with an AR. We go cold and he says he can’t hit the plate. I walk down to check my target and then walk over to his to check it out while he’s sitting at the bench. I walk back to tell him there’s no plate there. Just a rubber hanger full of holes.
The frustrating thing about this is the guy describes radical destabilization. Meaning the bullet will never restabilize from the symptoms he described. Then they'll go on to say to shoots lights out at 1k or 1k+
The truth of this phenomenon is it's measured in tiny little increments. The keyholing is seen when one side of the bullet hole has a wider black band where it went through the paper. If you see a "tip" in the keyhole, that ain't gonna shoot well period, at any time, ever again, for the rest of its path downrange.
The group size exaggeration is another. It's not like you'll shoot 2 moa at 100 and then 2 moa at 300 or 400. That's too far off path for gryoscopic energy to account for. It's more like shooting 3/4 moa @ 100, then as the bullet settles shoot 1/2 moa @ 400. Note the use of angular reference. That is 3/4" roughly @ 100. It's 2" at 400. The physical size of the group will NEVER get smaller. In cases where the bullets are settling down, the group may not get bigger at the same rate it did in the first 100 yds. It's not always the case.
BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO GO TO SHIT, THEN RECOVER ITSELF.
Never heard that one! Guess I'll have something to try next time I head to the range
I gotta ask, is it a stupid statement or is the guy hearing it stupid for giving it ANY credibility? There are a number of jackasses in the shooting community who love to pull pranks like that and fuck people up. I've never understood it, but they do.
This gentleman was an “instructor” during a “class” training 3 new shooters!!! These people had paid money to learn from him
My buddy and I are both NRA pistol instructors we were both laughing at him trying not to embarrass him in front of his students
that is some of the most retarded shit on this thread
OUCH! ... ok a true jackass!
I apologize. I’ve seen people yanking someone’s chain. But, as you’ve pointed out the “instructor” had them going down the wrong road.?
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To be fair the guy was a decent pistol shooter. But when I tried his advice I got leg cramps
This happened a couple of years ago at my local gun range (Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas). I was in the 100 yard indoor range shooting. Noticed the guy next to me was shooting what looked like a nicer custom looking .308 bolt action rifle at his target placed only about 25 yards in front of him. I figured he was probably bore sighting his gun but then I realized he just kept shooting round after round at his 25 yard target. I eventually leaned over to him and said he should try stretching his target out to 100 yards and see how it groups.
Guy then tells me he's new to shooting and that his friend, who shoots a lot and knows "tactical" stuff, set up his rifle. He tells me he's just having a hard time seeing the target in his scope because it's so small. I offer him some advice to adjust his magnification and adjust his head to get a good sight picture. He says he's tried everything and nothing seems to help, so he asks if I can take a look at his rifle and shoot a few rounds to see if anything is wrong with it. I agree and as soon as I sit down behind his rifle I instantly noticed what the issue was.
His scope was on backwards.
I told him what the problem was and that I had a little tool kit in my range bag to move his scope. After I flipped his scope, he asked if I could shoot it for him. I shot what was left of the ammo he brought (I think 5 or 10 rounds of FGMM) to get his rifle zeroed and finished off with a nice little sub-moa 5 shot group and handed the gun back to him telling him his rifle is good now and don't trust his "tactical" friend anymore.
Guy then tells me he's new to shooting and that his friend, who shoots a lot and knows "tactical" stuff, set up his rifle. He tells me he's just having a hard time seeing the target in his scope because it's so small. I offer him some advice to adjust his magnification and adjust his head to get a good sight picture. He says he's tried everything and nothing seems to help, so he asks if I can take a look at his rifle and shoot a few rounds to see if anything is wrong with it. I agree and as soon as I sit down behind his rifle I instantly noticed what the issue was.
His scope was on backwards.
I told him what the problem was and that I had a little tool kit in my range bag to move his scope. After I flipped his scope, he asked if I could shoot it for him. I shot what was left of the ammo he brought (I think 5 or 10 rounds of FGMM) to get his rifle zeroed and finished off with a nice little sub-moa 5 shot group and handed the gun back to him telling him his rifle is good now and don't trust his "tactical" friend anymore.
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Was talking to a guy about barrel length for a weird caliber for bolt action. He told me that simply taking the round from one gun and shooting it from another would make the chamber pressure spike to 127,000PSI. Nothing would be changed except the barrel length and action type. The factory ammo would stay the same.
- Nov 3, 2010
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"My Ruger american in 6.5 CrEEdMoOrR with cheap off the shelf hornady ammo and a vortex crossfire will shoot .5" all day and its stupid to spend more than that on a gun.
Or "Whats the point in shooting 1000yrds its not like you're ever going to be shooting at people."
I had a new one this weekend...
"It should be mandatory that all of the targets should be positioned where we can see the trace".
Let me know when you get that one figured out buddy.
"It should be mandatory that all of the targets should be positioned where we can see the trace".
Let me know when you get that one figured out buddy.
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