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What's up with the Vortex AMG line?

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Steel+Killer

Killing one steel plate at a time!
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Minuteman
    • May 27, 2014
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    #1
    When Vortex first introduced the AMG line it was taunted as one of if not the only rifle scope 100% made in the USA it was in their brochures, catalogs and website then they changed it to the only part of the scope that was going to made outside the USA was the reticle and it was going to be made in Germany.

    Now if you look on their website and download their catalog there is zero mention of the AMG stuff being made in the USA.

    Is the AMG scope still being (almost) 100% USA made?

    Has Vortex given up on the original AMG idea of optics being 100% USA made or close to it?
     
    #2
    I owned the 100% AMG and it was excellent. I kept my RG2 over it though for the bigger eye box. I thought they were very comparable.

    My understanding is that the reticle vendor for Vortex in the US wasn't able to continue and they had to move to a German reticle vendor. So the 100% USA no longer applies.

    Someone please correct me where I'm not accurate.
     
    #3
    The US manufacture for the Vortex AMG reticle could not keep to the quality standards that Vortex set out with the AMG so they move the reticle to the German etcher. It is my understanding the glass for the reticle is still made in USA, only the etching is done in Germany (but I could be mistaken).

    As for AMG, it is still 99.9% made in USA as far as I know, I doubt Vortex will change that. I loved both my AMG 6-24's but would prefer them to offer a 4-20 or 3-18 style next, we'll see what happens, doubtful it will be this year but possibly next...
     
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    #6
    Wonder if that has anything to do with them not sending any AMG's out this year? I had one on order for almost 6 months and finally the vendor graciously gave my deposit back and I bought one used.
     
    #9
    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    What do you mean? Just vortex not sending any out? They seem to be sending every other scope they make accept the amg out but not that one. At least not to the vendor I ordered with anyway. They are a hide vendor and do a lot of business with scopes so...
    Click to expand...
    Yes, that's what I mean, Vortex apparently not sending out AMG's. I just ordered an AMG UH-1 Gen2 but that is a completely different animal from the 6-24, Scott (at Liberty Optics) said it would be 8-12 weeks
     
    #10
    Glassaholic said:
    Yes, that's what I mean, Vortex apparently not sending out AMG's. I just ordered an AMG UH-1 Gen2 but that is a completely different animal from the 6-24, Scott (at Liberty Optics) said it would be 8-12 weeks
    Click to expand...
    Yeah that's a totally different line so hopefully you will be good. Not sure what the deal was with it ? ?? I ultimately got one that was "used" (Like new) from a fellow hide member so I have my AMG for my .223 and am all happy and content inside.... I love the vortex reticles and the AMG has very good glass and is so much lighter than most others. Must have something to do with the AMg being made here and sourcing materials or something because it seems to be the only line they aren't shipping out.
     
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    #13
    Birddog6424 said:
    I got this from an industry insider, I'm just forwarding it, so don't shoot the messenger.

    He told me Vortex isn't hot on this scope because the margin on it is very small. It was great to have all the buzz it generated as an American made scope, but they are over it.
    Click to expand...
    Could be..... Theres certainly something going on with it.
     
    #14
    Birddog6424 said:
    I got this from an industry insider, I'm just forwarding it, so don't shoot the messenger.

    He told me Vortex isn't hot on this scope because the margin on it is very small. It was great to have all the buzz it generated as an American made scope, but they are over it.
    Click to expand...
    Ha, wouldnt surprise me. Its a shame, it so close to the perfect line(for me) but alas.....
     
    #15
    People want 100% made in the USA but most of those buyers don't want to give up features, or they don't want to/can't pay the "Made in USA" price to maintain the features and still have a quality piece of kit. It is an interesting conundrum for a manufacture, so I wouldn't be surprised if the margins aren't worth the little PR win.
     
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    #16
    SRPowah said:
    People want 100% made in the USA but most of those buyers don't want to give up features, or they don't want to/can't pay the "Made in USA" price to maintain the features and still have a quality piece of kit. It is an interesting conundrum for a manufacture, so I wouldn't be surprised if the margins aren't worth the little PR win.
    Click to expand...
    For as many purchasers of high end optics as there is out there, i am not sure why its not obtainable. How many atacr are at matches all across the usa?

    if a glass maker cannot make glass in the usa(or was it the etcher?) then why doesn’t someone fill the gap? Indo not know what it takes by why are these places only overseas? Germany isnt a 3rd world shithole, yet. So not sure why we couldn’t do the same thing or better, stateside.
     
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    #17
    Birddog6424 said:
    I got this from an industry insider, I'm just forwarding it, so don't shoot the messenger.

    He told me Vortex isn't hot on this scope because the margin on it is very small. It was great to have all the buzz it generated as an American made scope, but they are over it.
    Click to expand...
    That's a bummer. I liked the 6-24 that I had as an overall package, but for a long time I looked forward to the prospect of a 4-16x4X version in the 26oz range.

    Not being in the industry, I'm a little surprised about the statement that the margins are so low. A certain seller on the Hide will occasionally sell these for almost 30% off retail (about 50% off MSRP). I find it hard to believe that the manufacturer would let a retailer take 30%+, and would give themselves such a tiny margin as to become uninterested in their own product, but what do I know?

    A 4-16, 3.5-14, 3-12 or some other variation (assuming they maintain a 4x erector) is still a little interesting. But each year that passes, there are more options to compete with, and I become less interested in the prospect.
     
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    #20
    I like it a lot. I own one. I want them to make a scope for hunting.
    F913F301-C109-47B7-9D7C-D6E7435B470E.jpeg
     
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    #22
    Secant said:
    That's a bummer. I liked the 6-24 that I had as an overall package, but for a long time I looked forward to the prospect of a 4-16x4X version in the 26oz range.

    Not being in the industry, I'm a little surprised about the statement that the margins are so low. A certain seller on the Hide will occasionally sell these for almost 30% off retail (about 50% off MSRP). I find it hard to believe that the manufacturer would let a retailer take 30%+, and would give themselves such a tiny margin as to become uninterested in their own product, but what do I know?

    A 4-16, 3.5-14, 3-12 or some other variation (assuming they maintain a 4x erector) is still a little interesting. But each year that passes, there are more options to compete with, and I become less interested in the prospect.
    Click to expand...

    Take the deep throat "insider" info with a grain of salt. AMG is going no where and margins are what they are and are not tight. Vortex knows what they are doing and did not make the scope as a money pit.
     
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    #24
    I didnt mean to make it sound like Vortex was over the AMG as far as production goes. The future of the lineup wasn't even discussed. So I have no idea what is on the horizon.

    What they are "over" is using American made as a marketing tool. And he gave me two reasons. All the bullshit and legalities behind making the claim of Made in the USA. And the fact that American consumers are perfectly content to buy scopes made in Japan, the Phillipines, and China.

    And ""Deep Throat" is well-placed within the Vortex Nation to discuss margins. We talked quite a bit about how the Asian market effects everyone's bottom line, Burris and Vortex. Not to mention the LOW scopes and hordes of scopes now coming from China. The AMG is not a huge money maker. Im sure its profitable,, and not a money pit.. But even an outsider looking in can see they haven't thrown much behind it for a while now. They've been pretty quiet about it.

    My apologies for giving the wrong impression about the future of this optic. Its a great scope and it would be nice to see Vortex expand on it. We need more of these made stateside.
     
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    #25
    Legalities? Lol There are many companies not even close to using everything except the reticle being American made and they claim made in the USA without issue. Bottom line is AMG is all American except for the reticle and they are still being made.
     
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    #26
    Rob01 said:
    Legalities? Lol There are many companies not even close to using everything except the reticle being American made and they claim made in the USA without issue. Bottom line is AMG is all American except for the reticle and they are still being made.
    Click to expand...
    Are you saying there are no legalities surrounding claiming your product is US made? Or you're saying there is no enforcement?

    Do you work for the Vortex legal team?

    I dont know if you work for Vortex or if you're just a guy with their logo on your jersey. But I'm not bashing your brand. Good for them if they continue production on this optic. They would do well with an expanded line up. Shooters have been clamoring for it for years.
     
    Last edited:
    #27
    Saying that the legalities of claiming that are not hard and with the AMG the amount of parts used is well above what is needed to be made in the USA.
     
    #29
    Birddog6424 said:
    I'm not the one who said it. I just repeated it here.

    And I'm in medicine, so I have no idea what the legal litmus is.
    Click to expand...

    www.ftc.gov

    Complying with the Made in USA Standard

    Introduction Basic Information About Made In USA Claims The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims Qualified Claims Comparative Claims The FTC and The Customs Service Other Statutes What To Do About Violations Introduction The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing
    www.ftc.gov www.ftc.gov

    From the link above:

    "What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
    For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

    What does "all or virtually all" mean?
    "All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

    Example: A company produces propane barbecue grills at a plant in Nevada. The product’s major components include the gas valve, burner and aluminum housing, each of which is made in the U.S. The grill’s knobs and tubing are imported from Mexico. An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the product’s total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product.

    Example: A table lamp is assembled in the U.S. from American-made brass, an American-made Tiffany-style lampshade, and an imported base. The base accounts for a small percent of the total cost of making the lamp. An unqualified Made in USA claim is deceptive for two reasons: The base is not far enough removed in the manufacturing process from the finished product to be of little consequence and it is a significant part of the final product."
     
    Last edited:
    #30
    I'm not sure why you guys think I care about whether or not Vortex claims this as being made in the USA or not. I dont have a dog in this fight, so I really don't need to be looped into this.

    I simply repeated excerpts of a lengthy conversation I had with a Vortex employee. I can only assume the basis for his statements are due to events none of us are privy to.

    Why on earth anyone has decided to focus on that particular bit of the conversation and not another, I have no idea. I think its far more sad that an American company has come to the realization that most Americans don't care if what they buy is American made. They just want the best deal even if that means Chinese. As evidenced by the growing Chinese optics market.

    Edit; and before anyone gets their hackles up and starts quoting me on rebuttals (please don't) pretty much every optics company in the US has ties to Chinese OEMs. So I'm not singling out Vortex.
     
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    #35
    MNBob said:
    I love my 6-24 Razor AMG. I was on a waiting list for 11 months to get it in 2018. I cannot foresee any reason why I would sell it.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I still have mine too and I like it a lot. The weight/size for what you get is still hard to beat. I have zco on every other bolt gun but my 223 still wears the AMG. Probably won't ever get rid of it even if I end up with another zco on my 223, I would probably move my amg to my precision AR or a hunting rifle though the reticle isn't great for a hunting rig.
     
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    #36
    Looks like they 86ed the AMG riflescope line (as I suspected they were going to do) only thing AMG they have now is the holographic sight.

    On a side note I wonder what riflescope they would/will replace it with if they had to honor the VIP lifetime warranty and couldn't fix it...I guess a current Razor Gen 2 or 3.....:unsure:
     
    Last edited:
    #37
    Steel+Killer said:
    Looks like they 86ed the AMG riflescope line (as I suspected they were going to do) only thing AMG they have now is the holographic sight.

    On a side note I wonder what riflescope they would/will replace it with if they had to honor the VIP lifetime warranty and couldn't fix it...I guess a current Razor Gen 2 or 3.....:unsure:
    Click to expand...
    I don't know but the razor gen3 isn't really that comparable to the amg. I guess that's what it would have to be though. The LHT (though I really like mine on my ar) isn't anywhere near the amg in build quality nor the price so
     
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    #38
    MNBob said:
    I love my 6-24 Razor AMG. I was on a waiting list for 11 months to get it in 2018. I cannot foresee any reason why I would sell it.
    Click to expand...

    BuildingConceptsllc said:
    Yeah I still have mine too and I like it a lot. The weight/size for what you get is still hard to beat. I have zco on every other bolt gun but my 223 still wears the AMG. Probably won't ever get rid of it even if I end up with another zco on my 223, I would probably move my amg to my precision AR or a hunting rifle though the reticle isn't great for a hunting rig.
    Click to expand...

    I agree. Really like my AMG. The problem with this scope was it was a little stuck between applications. Too much for hunting, too little for tactical shooting. They should have made a 3-12 and 4-16, and been the premier precision hunting scope. But all the “long range hunting” SFP 5.5-22 NXS fudds got their ear. Vortex clearly listens to them, too, because that’s exactly the direction they went with the LHT. Same price point, power range, etc.

    Vortex, clearly you don’t get it, you keep appealing to those 70 year old farmers, and they’re just not that in to you. Those guys are chiselers, they’ll tell you they want the scope and then wait three years to buy one used, “when the price is right…” Or you listen to the tac crowd that wants them to build a discount 4-20 ZCO that is 29ozs. I hate it. I wish I could silence both groups. These guys don’t sneak through the woods with their 15lb rifles at high ready waiting to jump shoot a whitetail. Because if they did, they wouldn’t scream for 7x erector ratios, 28oz models, and 5x mag on the low end. PM me, I’m willing to help. 😂
     
    Last edited:
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    #40
    Birddog6424 said:
    Some statements didn't age well, they definitely axed the line.
    Click to expand...

    Kinda quietly, too (I don’t remember seeing it announced anywhere, anyway). Bit of a shame, I had one for awhile and it was a great optic. Perhaps a bit of an odd mag range for the modern era, but solid optics all around and I liked the idea and execution more than the LHT. I think a 3-15x or a 4-20x with the same build quality and attention to weight would have been the ticket for a crossover optic like the AMG seemed to be designed for initially.
     
    #43
    Desperately want a new Gen razor AMG 5-30x with the same glass, zero system and turrets as the Gen 3, just 30mm tube to save weight.

    Maybe they’ll do something like this with the Gen 3 pst line?

    Wherever they decide to place it, there’s still a market for something between the LHT and Gen 3 as a true “cross over”. More so now than when the original AMG came out IMO. NRL hunter and long range hunting has exploded in popularity
     
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    #50
    Found this thread because I have an 6-24 AMG-5 that needs to go back to Vortex for service and wanted to see if there were any similar issues with other owners.
    Purchased it in 2020 and it has spent most it’s life on either a 6mm AR or a 22lr bolt rifle. Recently will not focus parallax on any object greater than 300 yards away.
     
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