When do you anneal?

I

idlplumb

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Minuteman
Mar 30, 2017
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#1
So, I'm wondering, at what point in brass prep do you guys anneal? I'm thinking I'd do it right before I prime, charge and seat, but I'd like to hear what everyone is doing. Also, do you anneal and drop into a bucket of water or do you let them air cool?


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#6
Why decaping first? Don't you just decap when you size? I clean/tumble my brass wipe off every piece with a hand towel, (annealing goes here) lube, size, trim, prime and charge. Hornady lock and load AP with case feeder Hornady dies. I make accurate ammo with this set up. Why the extra step of decaping first?
 
#8
Pretty much as others have said, de-cap, clean anneal.

In response to BallisticSam- I always use a dedicated de-capping die and then tumble. Just like to get past the 'dirty stage' all at once, asap.

RampedRaptor- When I anneal, I always like to apply a little Tempilaq to the inside of the case mouth on the first half dozen cartidges. I count the seconds it takes to liquify; I just figure it's best to apply it to as clean a surface as I can get. No science, just a hunch....
 
#10
I am trying to figure this out also as I am fixing to start annealing.Right now I
FL size
Tumble to clean
Trim and brass prep
Then load
If I start tumbling first,then anneal,then resize,I will have to tumble again to remove any left over sizing lube. So I will be tumbling twice.
How can I get away from tumbling twice?
 
#11
Decap, ultrasonic clean, anneal neck and shoulders, neck size. I anneal every firing and air cool. The heat from the annealing process finishes drying out the brass from the ultrasonic cleaning.
 
#12
I decap with a decaping die so I can tumble without primers to get the primer pocket clean. If I decap in the sizing die and tumbled after then all the dirt and debris would be in my sizing die potentially causing excessive maintenance and wear.

I clean brass before annealing because it eliminates potential toxic fumes from burning other chemicals. No proof, I just feel better about it.
 
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#13
It looks like some of you are running dirty cases through your dies? The abrasion and extra friction is something you can do without. I've ruined a set of Grendel dies this way. How ever you do it cleaning should be first. Not as big an issue when using collet type dies but still...This is just the way I see it.
 
#14
jambau said:
It looks like some of you are running dirty cases through your dies? The abrasion and extra friction is something you can do without. I've ruined a set of Grendel dies this way. How ever you do it cleaning should be first. Not as big an issue when using collet type dies but still...This is just the way I see it.
Click to expand...

I only see one person who said that he doesn't clean before resizing.
 
#15
I tumble first with primers in. I use a Hornady LnL AP with a case feeder setup and don't want dirty cases in my hopper bowl. I'll then put just my sizing die in the press after I have taken the cases out and wiped them off then set them in a load block and spray them with Hornady one shot. I'll use the Unique case lube on about 6 pieces randomly then throw them back in the hopper and size them. Wipe them off as I trim. Then back to the hopper for primers, powder and bullets. When I chamfer the necks from trimming I also run the primer pocket tool in and clean out the residue.
 
#16
Every time. Tumble in rice for 4hrs, anneal (AMP annealer) de-cap/size, run thru a Sinclair carbide neck turning mandrel, tumble again in rice for 4 hrs, trim, prime, load
I de-cap and size with a modified Dillon 550, seat in a Co-Ax, start to finish, I only pull the press handle twice
 
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#20
lash
You may be correct. I made the observation on the assumption that some were decapping while sizing (same die). I forgot that some may, in fact, be using a special die just for popping primers.My bad

 
#22
The process after each firing - Decap, tumble, anneal, dry lube inside case necks, lube case body and size, wipe off lube from outside of cases, trim if necessary, prime, (if I trimmed the cases - I reapply dry graphite to the inside of the case necks before dropping powder), powder, seat bullets and give a final wipe of cases with a rag sprayed with alcohol. This final wiping with alcohol cleans any lubricating residue off the cases.
 
#23
jambau said:
lash
You may be correct. I made the observation on the assumption that some were decapping while sizing (same die). I forgot that some may, in fact, be using a special die just for popping primers.My bad
Click to expand...

It's fine. I do agree with your assessment that it is a bad idea to run dirty cases through a sizing die. In addition to ruining a die quickly, it can also shorten the life of your cases.
 
#24
I can see not running dirty cases through your sizing die but how dirty is your brass from a bolt gun? Tumbling match brass that gets thrown in mud or stepped on is one thing but most of my brass only sees a few seconds in grass or only the chamber of my gun and the ammo box.

I take one of those blue paper towels with either some one shot sprayed on it or etoh and wipe the outside of the neck and shoulder down once I get home. Takes less than 5 minutes and to me, the brass is clean.

I also have a couple SS tumblers but for my bolt action I just can't see the extra work/ (mostly time) in tumbling. This has changed within the last 2 years. Before, I swore the brass had to look like jewelry to shoot well.

Just curious to see if anyone has got mixed results with annealing brass with carbon in the neck?





 
#25
As I mentioned before, I only tumble my brass in walnut media, not stainless, and do not do anything specific to remove carbon from the case necks. However, it could be argued that I'm somewhat cleaning the carbon out when I full-length resize (every time), since I use an expander ball while doing so to uniform my necks. My results are very consistent with single digit SDs, low ES numbers and more importantly, consistent results at distance. I do anneal my match brass and ELR brass by hand every time, which works for me, even though it is extra time spent.

Your comment regarding how you clean your brass is valid, for your application. I live in Florida, where every piece of brass that hits the ground gets sand in and on it. It is totally worth it to me to run cases in a vibe tumbler for 30 minutes to make sure that I don't score my brass with a single piece of sand (silica). My cases are not super shiny, but I can live with that. It's easier to pick my brass out from among others, since it's often the only brass that doesn't shine like jewelry (plus I mark them).
 
#30
I know I'm getting off track here,,,it's proven that dirty/semi dirty primer pockets don't mean shit for accuracy etc. In addition, SS tumbling may LOOK good,,shiny and all but the hassle of using water, rinsing and the hammered case mouths doesn't work for me anymore. I like a little carbon in my necks for bullet release, SS strips it off YMMV
 
#31
I know several shooters who just "wipe" their brass. As long as it's clean enough to not harm the dies, that's good enough. My brass gets ejected into weeds, dirt, rocks, sand and other various ground cover. So for me, it's just easier to tumble.
 
#32
I tumble in walnut for about an hour then anneal, I began annealing with each reloading when I noticed my accuracy fell apart and the numbers confirmed it.. Then I was stuck with about 73 rounds that were less than optimal. I figure why take the chance. Just do it every time;
 
#33
phxfa said:
I like a little carbon in my necks for bullet release, SS strips it off YMMV
Click to expand...

With my ultrasonically cleaned neck IDs, I usually load rounds 1-2 weeks before I plan to shoot them. With that much sitting time, it is theorized that some minor bonding takes place between the bullet jackets and the case neck IDs. This has the effect of more consistent starting pressures similar to using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. The ammo is a little more durable for handling in the field, too. My SDs are in single digits for what it's worth with the 1-2 week sitting time.

With that being said, leaving carbon in the necks can also play towards consistent bullet release. I guess it all boils down to how soon you plan to shoot your loaded rounds.
 
#36
I anneal every reload right before I run my brass through my Redding Type S FL bushing die. I don't always tumble my brass prior to sizing and have not had any issues with annealing. I use a AMP annealer and they say there's no negative effect to annealing brass that hasn't been cleaned by one of the methods first. On a side note, they don't seem real big on SS tumbling as their testing has shown significant work hardening occurs; and they insist an SS tumbling should be done PRIOR to annealing or the results of annealing will likely be negated.

I let my brass air cool following annealing.

phxfa said:
Why does anybody de-cap before they tumble?
Your brass is going back in the tumbler after you size anyways
Click to expand...

Respectfully, why would you tumble brass after you resize? That risks dinging a neck or, in the case of SS tumbling, work hardening the neck. I use Redding Type S FL dies so I anneal right before sizing to get consistent neck tension. If I tumbled after sizing that could cause all sorts of issues. Not to mention, tumbling (as step #1) insures that clean brass goes into your dies. My view on tumbling is that it's meant as the very first step in the reloading process, not something to be done mid-stream. Why do you tumble AFTER resizing?
 
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#39
Sendit6.5 said:
I anneal every reload right before I run my brass through my Redding Type S FL bushing die. I don't always tumble my brass prior to sizing and have not had any issues with annealing. I use a AMP annealer and they say there's no negative effect to annealing brass that hasn't been cleaned by one of the methods first. On a side note, they don't seem real big on SS tumbling as their testing has shown significant work hardening occurs; and they insist an SS tumbling should be done PRIOR to annealing or the results of annealing will likely be negated.

I let my brass air cool following annealing.



Respectfully, why would you tumble brass after you resize? That risks dinging a neck or, in the case of SS tumbling, work hardening the neck. I use Redding Type S FL dies so I anneal right before sizing to get consistent neck tension. If I tumbled after sizing that could cause all sorts of issues. Not to mention, tumbling (as step #1) insures that clean brass goes into your dies. My view on tumbling is that it's meant as the very first step in the reloading process, not something to be done mid-stream. Why do you tumble AFTER resizing?
Click to expand...
Here's my process,
fired brass in the tumbler for 4hrs, I use rice. (Thanks Orkan), anneal with a AMP annealer (every firing) brass goes into a 2gal freezer bag for a liberal spraying of one shot lube, using a modified Dillon 550, size with a Redding S die/decap without the sizing button, run thru a Sinclair carbide neck turning mandrel, brass goes back into the tumbler to remove lube and clean the residue off the inside off the necks from annealing. Trim on the Giraud, prime, load on a Co-Ax
Ive never had a case mouth or neck get jacked up by tumbling, ever, If there was a dinged neck, the Giraud would find it.Single digit SD's in my Dasher and 6.5x47
Ive used this process for 5 barrels with great success, I only pull the press handle twice start to finish, pretty easy process especially if you shoot a lot,YMMV Respectfully,,,,

 
#40
For some reason, a part of me says annealing after sizing would be more beneficial because the work hardening preformed after sizing would be relieved, but if you guys are having success with annealing prior to sizing, I'll go that route as well. Maybe I'll test a batch annealed after sizing as well.


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#41
phxfa said:
Every time. Tumble in rice for 4hrs, anneal (AMP annealer) de-cap/size, run thru a Sinclair carbide neck turning mandrel, tumble again in rice for 4 hrs, trim, prime, load
I de-cap and size with a modified Dillon 550, seat in a Co-Ax, start to finish, I only pull the press handle twice
Click to expand...

So phxfa, how do you like your AMP annealer? How long have you had it/case volume you've run through it, etc. What's the warranty? Thanks!
 
#42
I really like the AMP annealer, sold my Giraurd and haven't looked back. Had it for 6months or so, probably 3k rounds thru it. I believe it's a 1 year warranty.
Kinda cool you can use it watching TV,,,,
 
#43
idlplumb said:
For some reason, a part of me says annealing after sizing would be more beneficial because the work hardening preformed after sizing would be relieved, but if you guys are having success with annealing prior to sizing, I'll go that route as well. Maybe I'll test a batch annealed after sizing as well.


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Click to expand...

As hot as the brass gets during annealing, I believe there's a chance that there can be a slight distortion of the case hence the sizing after annealing.
Im not sure on that though,,
 
#44
phxfa said:
I really like the AMP annealer, sold my Giraurd and haven't looked back. Had it for 6months or so, probably 3k rounds thru it. I believe it's a 1 year warranty.
Kinda cool you can use it watching TV,,,,
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yep, I can see half my reloading shack moving into the living room & set up on the coffee table.....annealing, hand priming, all next to the remote & mini fridge with the beer. Humm, arbor presses are pretty small, wonder if the wife would mind one bolted to the coffee table.......
 
#45
BallisticSam said:
Why decaping first? Don't you just decap when you size? I clean/tumble my brass wipe off every piece with a hand towel, (annealing goes here) lube, size, trim, prime and charge. Hornady lock and load AP with case feeder Hornady dies. I make accurate ammo with this set up. Why the extra step of decaping first?
Click to expand...

If you're doing a salt pot anneal, you may want to let the liquid into the inner regions for faster local heating of the neck/shoulder
 
#46
Fursniper said:
Thanks. Yep, I can see half my reloading shack moving into the living room & set up on the coffee table.....annealing, hand priming, all next to the remote & mini fridge with the beer. Humm, arbor presses are pretty small, wonder if the wife would mind one bolted to the coffee table.......
Click to expand...

Lol! She might mind. Do like I did and bolt the press to a 2x6 and then just clamp that to wherever using quick clamps. Nobody's the wiser that way and no negotiations involved.
 
#47
phxfa said:
I know I'm getting off track here,,,it's proven that dirty/semi dirty primer pockets don't mean shit for accuracy etc. In addition, SS tumbling may LOOK good,,shiny and all but the hassle of using water, rinsing and the hammered case mouths doesn't work for me anymore. I like a little carbon in my necks for bullet release, SS strips it off YMMV
Click to expand...

what difference does it make..... you need to do it anyway in order to get a consistent reading using hornady bump / headspace gauges and for consistent bumping of the brass during the resizing process... soooo might as well make it the first thing you do especially when the lee decapping die specifically states it works for all cartridges & dirty brass... if you're reloading in bulk, then you need to clean the brass for consistent sizing & so sizing dies don't get damaged... and you need to take the lube off.. guess it's a logical order to me....
 
#49
My wife actually told I have permission to bring in presses and bolt them to our seldom used dining room table. I feel like it's a trap/test lol.


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#50
elfster1234 said:
what difference does it make..... you need to do it anyway in order to get a consistent reading using hornady bump / headspace gauges and for consistent bumping of the brass during the resizing process... soooo might as well make it the first thing you do especially when the lee decapping die specifically states it works for all cartridges & dirty brass... if you're reloading in bulk, then you need to clean the brass for consistent sizing & so sizing dies don't get damaged... and you need to take the lube off.. guess it's a logical order to me....
Click to expand...
I'm lost here, what does my quote and your statement have to do with each other?
 
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