Which Aimpoint?

[paulL01]

Guys, I'm inexperienced with Red dots.
I've never served in the military either.
I'll be 50 this November and, I have a slight astigmatism ( a little nearsighted ) and I want the aimpoint that will be best for my CZ Bren 805 PS1 (11" Barrel) I'm most concerned with being able to pickup up a target quickly and field of view.
It's not like I'm gonna be shooting this rifle over 200 yards anyways. At least, I don't intend to. I've already looked at several threads and I like the idea of Aimpoint but, I wanted to make this thread to ask about what might be best for me and my rifle.
Thanks much guys. I appreciate the info and advice and feel free to suggest something other than Aimpoint if it might be better for what I'm looking for.

 

[simonp]

I would definitely borrow a buddies gun with one first before purchasing. I had aimpoints on my guns, switched over to LPVO’s, primary reason was my astigmatism. Close in they were great but past 50 yards I had a real issue getting accuracy. The dot blurs and/or you’ll see two dots.

 

[paulL01]

I would definitely borrow a buddies gun with one first before purchasing. I had aimpoints on my guns, switched over to LPVO’s, primary reason was my astigmatism. Close in they were great but past 50 yards I had a real issue getting accuracy. The dot blurs and/or you’ll see two dots.

Yup.
I've been sitting here wishing that there was a store near me like Sportoptics that had everything so.i can see for myself.
I'm not even sure if anyone I know even has such a nice red dot. I'll ask around. Thank you.
Btw, what does LPVO stand for?
Am I correct in assuming it would be like a Vortex Strike Eagle 1x8 as an example?

 

[drewthebrave]

I second the "look through it first" sentiment. You just won't know what works and what doesn't until you see it yourself.

My astigmatism causes most red-dots to "bloom" slightly even when wearing glasses or contacts. The holographic style red dots (EOTech and Holosun) seem to bloom a little less than the tube style red dots (Aimpoint, Primary Arms) I have used. I still have an Aimpoint H1 on my HD rifle because it's minor enough that I'd gladly accept the slight "starburst" for the Aimpoint's superior battery life & reputation for durability.

If you find that red dot optics don't agree with your astigmatism, you can look into a Prism Optic like the Primary Arms Cyclops. It has an etched reticle, so the image will appear more clear to your eyes. As a bonus, most prism optics have interesting reticles that can make them more versatile at longer ranges.

EDIT - LPVO stands for Low Powered Variable Optic, meaning a 1-?x scope. They offer an interesting compromise for short-to-mid range shooting. Not as fast as a red dot at 1x, and not as much magnification as a traditional scope (3-9x, 2-10x), but they are popular for general purpose use. Because they have etched reticles, they are not affected by astigmatism the way a red dot might be.

 

[paulL01]

Thank you, Drew & Frederick
I really appreciate that info
Makes sense.

 

[ssc45]

I have many aimpoint RDS's. I also have trijicon MRO's and eotech. I am older than you and am a bit near-sighted. The AP T2 and H2 are better than the T1. They have a bit better glass and dot and less parallax. If weight is an issue, they are the go to. If weight isn't an issue, the comp M5 is outstanding and perhaps a bit more "rugged." The dot seems similar to the T2/H2. If you don't care about NV, then the H2 is my suggestion. If weight is not a consideration and money is an issue the AP pro is a winner. I do not have an issue with the dot on the T2/H2 nor the comp m5 or pro. On occasion I notice a bit of flare/oblong dot on my T1's.

Regarding the MRO, for me, the AP has a better dot and much less parallax. It does have a blue tint, but not very noticeable while shooting. ( I have the newer generation) I like the ambidextrous adjustment knob. It seems to have a better field of view. There is, to my eye, a tiny bit of distortion if you really look for it, but doesn't affect me when shooting. Keep in mind that when using RDS, you shoot with both eyes open and focus on the target, not the dot.

The EOtech is a holographic sight and is best for someone who has an astigmatism. In my opinion, it has the best field of view. The new/current EOtech's are good to go. Don't confuse them with all the issues pre 2017. They have a large window. The battery life is not as good as some of the aimpoints and they can be heavy. I recommend the EXPS that includes the mount.
https://www.eotechinc.com/holographic-weapon-sights
Review their site. It has good info.

All the above sights are quality in my opinion. If pushed to give my opinion, I think the EOtech may be just a bit quicker on site and has the best field of view with no dot issues regarding eye issues. I haven't tested mine for parallax, so I have no personal experience with that. EOtech is used by many in SOF around the world in extreme conditions. So are AP, though it seems that the EOtech are more common according to my contacts.

Hope the above helps, as opposed to making it clear as mud. The above are my opinions. YMMV.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Clayman]

Guys, I'm inexperienced with Red dots.
I've never served in the military either.
I'll be 50 this November and, I have a slight astigmatism ( a little nearsighted ) and I want the aimpoint that will be best for my CZ Bren 805 PS1 (11" Barrel) I'm most concerned with being able to pickup up a target quickly and field of view.
It's not like I'm gonna be shooting this rifle over 200 yards anyways. At least, I don't intend to. I've already looked at several threads and I like the idea of Aimpoint but, I wanted to make this thread to ask about what might be best for me and my rifle.
Thanks much guys. I appreciate the info and advice and feel free to suggest something other than Aimpoint if it might be better for what I'm looking for.

Aimpoints are very expensive so definitely try to look through one first. I have a mild astigmatism and red dots are still very usable for me but it's not a crisp clean dot. It's has a little starburst effect. I've used cheap red dots and up to an Aimpoint M5. They all do it. Some wrose than others.

One of my favorite optics because of this is the Trijicon TA44 acss. It's a 1.5x16s. Slight magnification. The reticle and glass is so clean. I much prefer the acss vs the circle dot. It is a pretty fine chevron and some people struggle with it. I see it just fine.

Edit I should add that regular TA31 acogs are absolute fantastic as well. Very clean glass. It's not necessary the greatest thing in a home defense type situation but it's still usable but from say 25-400 yards it's great. Very nice glass, excellent fov, lightweight, etc.


As others have mentioned the lpvo (low power variable optic) is fantastic as well. Anything with an etched reticle will be great.

Nightforce ATACR 1-8x24


1x

3x

8x

As far as a more budget option the new Primary Arms micro prism will be great.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary...th-red-illuminated-acss-cyclops-gen-2-reticle


https://www.instagram.com/p/CS2tnl1Jvhu/?utm_medium=copy_link


Eotech is another great option. Their reticle looks "fuzzy" but it's very usable and very fast.

 

[Moose]

I purchased my first red dot aimpoint T2 a year ago and it looked like a big red star.Did not know I had a astigmatism so I sold it and I run the razor gen 2 e now.It is outstanding.

 

[gxer]

Holosun has great product lines for red dot sights. They are affordable and very importantly, they stay at forefront of innovation. I have one with ACSS chevron (I believe the model is HS503G-ACSS). For your use case I won't rely on the BDC for long range but the chevron tip is very precise for aiming. I also have the Eotech EXPS3 and I won't recommend them as they are expensive, heavy, and oversized. Unless you are going to war I really don't see why you would need an Eotech. Not to mention the battery life on those sights are just a fraction of what the Holosun sights can do.

Eotech dot is not "fuzzy" to me, in fact it has the best 1 MOA dot (as compared to 2 MOA for other manufacturers) out of all RDS out there due to it used laser instead of LED technology. I heard this helps with people with astigmatism to aim precisely.

Lastly, I would recommend you to go to your local optics dealer to check out the sight before buying it online. Since this is a very subjective matter.

 

[paulL01]

Wow. Thanks guys!!
This is incredibly informative in such a short amount of time!!
Ya know, I'm gonna find a store that has all the major brands and look at all the ones mentioned here. I'll just make a road trip out of it. Surely there's a store between Charlotte, NC and Knoxville, TN that has all the goodies....

 

[Rerun7]

Aimpoints are great, I have a couple of them. Love the T2 but the lower end models like the pro are an awesome value.

If you want to get a decent red dot a whole lot cheaper then try the sig romeo5. I’ve been very impressed with them for the money.

I’m sure they aren’t as tough as the aimpoints but if you aren’t going into battle with it I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a better one.

LPVOs are great too, they just serve a different purpose.

 

[mewillis]

The older eye people should avoid smaller "micro" red dots IMO as the tube size is more difficult to pick up. I wanted to get a T2 but decided to get the top dog and tried an Aimpoint M5 and felt it was just too small to quickly pick up compared to an M4, sold it immediately. If you can't easily see the dot, why even try. The MRO Trijicon is also a great red dot due to the larger view. My favorite as an older eye guy is the LVPO TR24 Trijicon triangle. Large view and clear with magnification to boot, best of both worlds for my old eyes. YMMV

 

[545riflefan]

As said above Parallax is a thing with red dots. Some red dots are good at controlling this and others are not. You can’t use price to guarantee best parallax performance unfortunately. I’ve found Aimpoint T2 to be really good and the Aimpoint Pro to be really good and controlling the parallax shift. Comp M5’s are supposed to be really good also. Our H1’s were found to be terrible. This showed up for us as zero shift from range trip to range trip or inability to consistently hit steel at various distances. Since we stepped to the T2’s we haven’t had any of those issues. Do research on red dot parallax tests and you’ll see what dots excell and what dots should be avoided.

 

[308pirate]

The older eye people should avoid smaller "micro" red dots IMO as the tube size is more difficult to pick up. I wanted to get a T2 but decided to get the top dog and tried an Aimpoint M5 and felt it was just too small to quickly pick up compared to an M4, sold it immediately. If you can't easily see the dot, why even try. The MRO Trijicon is also a great red dot due to the larger view. My favorite as an older eye guy is the LVPO TR24 Trijicon triangle. Large view and clear with magnification to boot, best of both worlds for my old eyes. YMMV

The size of the tube has nothing to do with not being able to find the dot. Your mount (rifle) or draw (pistol) sucks if the dot is not in front of your eyes the instant the mount/draw is finished.

Field of view is irrelevant with reflex optics. You're not supposed to try to see the world through the tube.

Most people have no clue to how use a RDS effectively. I see them squinting one eye, trying to focus on the dot, and generally slow on the draw and transitions.

 

[308pirate]

I would definitely borrow a buddies gun with one first before purchasing. I had aimpoints on my guns, switched over to LPVO’s, primary reason was my astigmatism. Close in they were great but past 50 yards I had a real issue getting accuracy. The dot blurs and/or you’ll see two dots.

Or you could do what I did and get your astigmatism corrected so it's not an issue.

 

[mewillis]

The size of the tube has nothing to do with not being able to find the dot.

Your opinion is only worth your personal experience. And if you aren't over 55 and or wear glasses that's a pretty stupid thing to say. Is that why they actually make optics with larger views like the SRO and the MRO?? Why not make them all the size of a cigar??

 

[1911hombre]

The size of the tube has nothing to do with not being able to find the dot. Your mount (rifle) or draw (pistol) sucks if the dot is not in front of your eyes the instant the mount/draw is finished.

Field of view is irrelevant with reflex optics. You're not supposed to try to see the world through the tube.

Most people have no clue to how use a RDS effectively. I see them squinting one eye, trying to focus on the dot, and generally slow on the draw and transitions.

THIS^^^^^^^.
I will add that most guys that have trouble with red dots aren't using hem correctly. Mount that T!/T2 way out at the end of your upper, only run the dot as bright as you need it- no more, both eyes open, and FOCUS ON YOUR TARGET.
I also second the guy recommending Romeo 5's for a good cheap option.

 

[ssc45]

Your opinion is only worth your personal experience. And if you aren't over 55 and or wear glasses that's a pretty stupid thing to say. Is that why they actually make optics with larger views like the SRO and the MRO?? Why not make them all the size of a cigar??

I must respectfully disagree. I am over 55 and I do wear glasses. I was running drills yesterday with 2 different AR's. One has a AP comp m5 and the other a EOtech. If you are using the RDS properly, the size of the tube is a very minor consideration. I also run MRO's and M68 RDS's. "Finding the dot" is about proper mount, both for the sight and how you mount the gun so it comes up properly. There are a few other items as well, such as shoot with both eyes open etc. I also have an SRO on a pistol. Frankly, if a screw up my draw and or presentation, it doesn't matter how big the "view" is, the dot will not be where it should be.

YMMV and though I don't post much here, I believe that 308P can explain his thoughts.

Cheers, Steve

 

[308pirate]

Your opinion is only worth your personal experience. And if you aren't over 55 and or wear glasses that's a pretty stupid thing to say. Is that why they actually make optics with larger views like the SRO and the MRO?? Why not make them all the size of a cigar??

I turned 55 this year. I have worn glasses since I was 14. My myopia is over -3.5 diopters in both eyes and my astigmatism is pretty fierce without correction. I've been needing readers since I was 42

I'm also A class in USPSA carry optics, so I don't give a shit about excuses.

People who blame their ammo, their pistol, their rifle, their sights, their bipod, their age, their eyes, their joints, or anything else other than their lack of skill never get better.

Reflex sights with larger lenses make it easier to keep the dot in the window during odd and awkward positions such as heavy leans, etc. They are no substitute for a correct mount or a correct draw. But I think in large part they were made to appease idiots who complain about "not being able to track the dot in recoil". When someone says that I immediately know they're dot-focused and not target-focused. I don't track the dot in recoil with my eyes. It reappears right back on target by itself because my grip is correct.

 

[308pirate]

Guys, I'm inexperienced with Red dots.
I've never served in the military either.
I'll be 50 this November and, I have a slight astigmatism ( a little nearsighted ) and I want the aimpoint that will be best for my CZ Bren 805 PS1 (11" Barrel) I'm most concerned with being able to pickup up a target quickly and field of view.
It's not like I'm gonna be shooting this rifle over 200 yards anyways. At least, I don't intend to. I've already looked at several threads and I like the idea of Aimpoint but, I wanted to make this thread to ask about what might be best for me and my rifle.
Thanks much guys. I appreciate the info and advice and feel free to suggest something other than Aimpoint if it might be better for what I'm looking for.

I can tell you this from personal experience: the larger the dot the less effect astigmatism has on it.

I have a pair of Holosuns with 2 moa dots, an Aimpoint CompC with a 4 moa dot, two Trijicon SROs both with 5 moa dots, and a Trijicon RMR with a 6.5 moa dot. I also used to have an Aimpoint PRO with a 2 moa dot. Every one of them, except for the 2 moa sights, looks perfectly round through my glasses. The 2 moa dots, regardless of make, always look a little starbursty to me but still perfectly usable since they are battle sights, not precision scops.

Mind you, that's with the little astigmatism that I still have when I shoot because I almost never look through the exact optical center of my corrective lenses when I shoot.

If you have significant astigmatism and you have done nothing to correct it, all of them will look distorted to some degree. That's what astigmatism does.......

You have to correct out as much astigmatism as you can. Doesn't matter if you do it with glasses, contacts, or surgery, but you have to do it.

 

[308pirate]

I purchased my first red dot aimpoint T2 a year ago and it looked like a big red star.Did not know I had a astigmatism so I sold it and I run the razor gen 2 e now.It is outstanding.

I think a pair of glasses would have been cheaper

 

[paulL01]

I went ahead and went with a Holosun HE510c Green Dot.
And, also got the Holosun x3 Magnifier

 

[houndog]

paul - congrats on the Holosun. They have an great reputation and make a solid red dot. Green vs. red is usually a matter of personal preference, so hopefully you got to try both. I also like the 3x magnifiers. Although LPVO's are very versatile, I still think a red dot is faster than an LPVO at 1x. And the magnifier makes shots at 2-300 yards doable.

I also think this thread generated a lot of great advice/info. Honestly, if you're looking to buy a red dot right now there are a ton of good choices. Ultimately it depends on your budget, personal preference and what features you are looking for. As someone who also has a slight astigmatism, I agree some dots work better than others for me. Eotechs have always been great and for me not really affected by my astigmatism. And I find the circle/dot to be very versatile.

Aimpoints are the top of the line and have great battery life.

Holosun is nearly as good and cheaper.

Nothing wrong with the Sigs either and I like their shake awake feature.

For a budget alternative Primary Arms are GTG although they won't be as rugged as the Aimpoints.

And I've always like the Trijicon MRO's. Maybe I'm not using red dots correctly, but I like the larger FOV. Also like the way the controls are laid out. I do wish they had finer adjustments on the brightness of the dot. And I've found they have very poor parallax, so you do need center the dot. Maybe that negates the larger FOV - but for whatever reason I still like them.

 

[paulL01]

paul - congrats on the Holosun. They have an great reputation and make a solid red dot. Green vs. red is usually a matter of personal preference, so hopefully you got to try both. I also like the 3x magnifiers. Although LPVO's are very versatile, I still think a red dot is faster than an LPVO at 1x. And the magnifier makes shots at 2-300 yards doable.

I also think this thread generated a lot of great advice/info. Honestly, if you're looking to buy a red dot right now there are a ton of good choices. Ultimately it depends on your budget, personal preference and what features you are looking for. As someone who also has a slight astigmatism, I agree some dots work better than others for me. Eotechs have always been great and for me not really affected by my astigmatism. And I find the circle/dot to be very versatile.

Aimpoints are the top of the line and have great battery life.

Holosun is nearly as good and cheaper.

Nothing wrong with the Sigs either and I like their shake awake feature.

For a budget alternative Primary Arms are GTG although they won't be as rugged as the Aimpoints.

And I've always like the Trijicon MRO's. Maybe I'm not using red dots correctly, but I like the larger FOV. Also like the way the controls are laid out. I do wish they had finer adjustments on the brightness of the dot. And I've found they have very poor parallax, so you do need center the dot. Maybe that negates the larger FOV - but for whatever reason I still like them.

Thank you, Sir!
I really appreciate the 411 and kind words.
One of the reasons I really liked the Holosun was that like Sig, it has that super nice shake awake.

 

[308pirate]

One of the reasons I really liked the Holosun was that like Sig, it has that super nice shake awake.

Shake awake is neat, but completely unnecessary

The RMR on my carry pistol has been on continuously since late 2019. I always have it in auto-brightness mode, so it does sorta conserve batteries by dimming when it's in my nightstand, hidden in the car (while I'm at the office), and under my clothes when the pistol is holstered.

 

[houndog]

Pirate - not sure what the battery life of an RMR is, particularly one with auto-bright feature. But since you're closing in on two years, you might want to think about replacing the battery. Batteries are cheap and a small price to pay for the comfort of knowing your red dot will work when you need it.

 

[308pirate]

Pirate - not sure what the battery life of an RMR is, particularly one with auto-bright feature. But since you're closing in on two years, you might want to think about replacing the battery. Batteries are cheap and a small price to pay for the comfort of knowing your red dot will work when you need it.

Typically 5 years. I plan on replacing the battery at the end of this year. Return to zero is almost perfect when reinstalling back on the same pistol.

 

[drewthebrave]

I think a pair of glasses would have been cheaper

While glasses can correct your vision, they don't always correct the "starburst" or "bloom" effect astigmatism has on some red dot optics. Everyone's eyes are different, so it may take a little trial and error to find the best option for each individual.

 

[308pirate]

While glasses can correct your vision, they don't always correct the "starburst" or "bloom" effect astigmatism has on some red dot optics.

That's not how optics work. If that's what you're seeing your prescription is wrong, the lenses were ground wrong, you're not looking through the optical center, or a combination of them.

Of course everyone's eyes are different. If not, there would be no need to see an optometrist.

If the prescription is correct and the grind is correct, there will be no effects on the image of the dot due to astigmatism. Astigmatism, like any other vision defect, is correctable by someone (optometrist + lab) who know what they're doing.

 

[mewillis]

Remember Drew, the Pirate knows all. He is the resident one upper and know it all. Your prescription is wrong, your lenses are ground wrong, the mount is wrong, your opinion and choice of optics is wrong, and nobody knows more about optics, shooting, or your own vision and you have no say in the matter. And remember this as it's in many of his posts.
"I'm also A class in USPSA carry optics, so I don't give a shit about excuses"
Now you see there is no use even attempting to help others or give your opinion..........
if it wasn't so tragic it would be funny.

 

[drewthebrave]

Remember Drew, the Pirate knows all. He is the resident one upper and know it all. Your prescription is wrong, your lenses are ground wrong, the mount is wrong, your opinion and choice of optics is wrong, and nobody knows more about optics, shooting, or your own vision and you have no say in the matter. And remember this as it's in many of his posts.
"I'm also A class in USPSA carry optics, so I don't give a shit about excuses"
Now you see there is no use even attempting to help others or give your opinion..........
if it wasn't so tragic it would be funny.

But I'm already reaching out to my eye doctor to ask him to regrind the lenses for my glasses properly. Then I'll schedule reconstructive eye surgery to reshape my eyes into perfect spheres. Lastly, I'm beginning an intensive training regimen ensure that my eye NEVER moves from perfect optical center of my red dot optics while shooting my firearms in the field.

All of that sounds so much more efficient than swapping red dots.

 

[308pirate]

But I'm already reaching out to my eye doctor to ask him to regrind the lenses for my glasses properly. Then I'll schedule reconstructive eye surgery to reshape my eyes into perfect spheres. Lastly, I'm beginning an intensive training regimen ensure that my eye NEVER moves from perfect optical center of my red dot optics while shooting my firearms in the field.

All of that sounds so much more efficient than swapping red dots.

Remember Drew, the Pirate knows all. He is the resident one upper and know it all. Your prescription is wrong, your lenses are ground wrong, the mount is wrong, your opinion and choice of optics is wrong, and nobody knows more about optics, shooting, or your own vision and you have no say in the matter. And remember this as it's in many of his posts.
"I'm also A class in USPSA carry optics, so I don't give a shit about excuses"
Now you see there is no use even attempting to help others or give your opinion..........
if it wasn't so tragic it would be funny.

Whine my eyes don't work right...................whine I'm too fucking old................whine I wear glasses....................

LOL turds who blame everything except themselves for their poor performance

 

[mewillis]

Whine my eyes don't work right...................whine I'm too fucking old................whine I wear glasses....................

LOL turds who blame everything except themselves for their poor performance

Except in this case, YOU are the turd........
By the way you meet this definition to the T, could be time for meds forget your eyes.
Narcissist
Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

 

[paulL01]

Both units arrived yesterday and, I gotta say that I love em. The Holosun Elite Green Dot lines up perfectly with my front sight post and the x3 magnifier is really neat and very nice.
The glass is fantastic on green dot as well.
I will also say that my astigmatism is worse than I thought. I thought I might be ok with a 2 moa circle dot but, the difference with and without my glasses are remarkable. So, I switched from the circle dot to just a dot. And, I can live with that. All in all, I'm very happy with this set up.
Thanks so much for all the help and input. I really appreciate it fellas