Rifle Scopes Who has the Thinnest reticle at Max power?

[Pleistarchus]

A while ago I was finally in a position to purchase my first high end scope. Without being able to compare the top 5 and choose, I settled with a Schmidt and Bender(Not that I would consider that to be settling by any means). A while after I ran into someone who had a Steiner mounted and had the opportunity to compare. Immediately I noticed a difference in the eyebox and how much more comfortable and forgiving it felt to me. As for quality of the glass, I would not consider myself at the experience level to have been able to tell the difference so there was no difference in that aspect to me. Not too long after I was presented with a very good deal to sell my Schmidt for a Steiner and pocket $1000, so I did. One mistake I made(clearly a rookie mistake)was while comparing I did not engage my target at max(25x) power with the Steiner. Now I notice it every time I max my scope and even have a tendency to lower the power to obtain a thinner crosshair. I will start shooting past 500 when a new range opens down here next month and will clearly find myself bitching about that reticle, especially having shot the P4fine on the Schmidt. Now I would probably do as much bitching if I had to deal with a less forging eyebox again considering I believe Steiner's is the most forgiving. So what I would like to know is would anyone know of a thin reticled scope like the P4fine with an eyebox as forgiving as the Steiner. Ultimately if Steiner had a thinner reticle I would not be posting this. Hope to hear some good news, Thanks to all.

 

[jdgray]

Unless your using the reticle to range your target, I wouldn't even consider a FFP scope for this reason. I like my range finder and dope chart method, but to each his own...
Good luck in your search!

 

[Flyingbullseye]

The reticle is the same size at the lower magnifications, its just seems less since the reticle grows with the image. I've noticed on the MSR reticle that the center cross hair looks larger than the rest of the reticle but I know its not. Just my eye perceiving something that isn't true. Same there here. As for the thinnest reticle if you want to stay FFP I'd wager to guess the Gen2 XR on Premier's 25X scope. Its supposed to be 0.025mil thick.

 

[Pleistarchus]

The reticle is the same size at the lower magnifications, its just seems less since the reticle grows with the image. I've noticed on the MSR reticle that the center cross hair looks larger than the rest of the reticle but I know its not. Just my eye perceiving something that isn't true. Same there here. As for the thinnest reticle if you want to stay FFP I'd wager to guess the Gen2 XR on Premier's 25X scope. Its supposed to be 0.025mil thick.

I understand the concept of a Front Focal Plane reticle. The P4 "fine" is not as apparent a slender crosshair when comparing the MSR from Steiner at 5x. It is still noticeable but not as much. Once at 25x you really notice the difference. It was a mistake I will never do again. I will definitely look at Premier. Thank you!!

 

[billyburl2]

Which reticle do you have in the Steiner?

 

[JFComfort]

I was going to mention the US Optics RDP reticle but Diver beat me to it!

 

[Pleistarchus]

Which reticle do you have in the Steiner?

I have the MSR but that RDP is what I'm looking for. How's the eye relief on the USO?

 

[Graham]

Who has the Thinnest reticle at Max power?

Unless your using the reticle to range your target, I wouldn't even consider a FFP scope for this reason.

That's not the purpose of FFP. You can range a target with a Mil based reticle using any kind of scope. FFP helps eliminate the mental math when you are holding wind at different magnifications.

If you want a thin reticle at Max power, buy a fixed power scope. The thinner the reticle at max power, the less the scope will be useful in its lower power range.

 

[buffybuster]

The thinness or thickness of the reticle is a compromise in a FFP scope. The Gen2XR in the Premier is very thin, but (to my eyes) becomes unusable below 8X. The RDP seems like a nice reticle because of the extra fine center reticle, but I don't know if it's illuminated (if that's an issue). The P4F seemed to be the best compromise. But I have been spending some time with the IOR MP8 with the floating dot and that seems to work too. I have the USO MPR reticle which I like very much, but I have wished for a thinner center section....

The Nightforce NPR1 is a very nice, very fine reticle....... if you can live with SFP.

 

[jdgray]

That's not the purpose of FFP. You can range a target with a Mil based reticle using any kind of scope. FFP helps eliminate the mental math when you are holding wind at different magnifications.

If you want a thin reticle at Max power, buy a fixed power scope. The thinner the reticle at max power, the less the scope will be useful in its lower power range.

True, you can range with a SFP Mildot, if your on the right power setting.

 

[scudzuki]

The Steiner MSR reticle is too thick in the center, but they are working on (or maybe have already released) a revised MSR with thinner stadia at the center.
Even so, I was loving mine yesterday banging steel out to 640 yards, but on targets the MSR covers a bit more than I like.

Overall I like the Steiner 5-25 a bit more than I liked the S&B 5-25 but the P4F reticle in the Schmitty was just the right thickness in the center IMHO, like the G2DMR in the Bushnells.

I have a March 3-24x42 FFP with the mil reticle, now that's a thick reticle, but remember it has to work from 3x to 24x. It has a floating dot as its saving grace, but it's a big dot.

I was shooting with Lizard1 who has NF SFP scopes and he was pretty surprised at the thickness of the March reticle.

OP, what with Steiner having a US based service center in CO, they might refit your 5-25 with the new MSR for a reasonable fee.

Joe

 

[Sako man]

A while ago I was finally in a position to purchase my first high end scope. Without being able to compare the top 5 and choose, I settled with a Schmidt and Bender(Not that I would consider that to be settling by any means). A while after I ran into someone who had a Steiner mounted and had the opportunity to compare.

OK, So yes the Steiner has the best eye box, no doubt. But as stated at 25x the MSR is annoyingly thick, as well you might notice some little burrs on the reticle itself. I have most of the high end optics and really at that level I fool myself in thinking I can tell the difference in glass quality. Really they are all very close, too close to tell most of time. I love my SnB p4f 25x but I really find that between eye box and nice reticle at high power the Premier 25x GEN2XR is the best of most worlds. It is hard to fault for me.

I vote Premier this time.

 

[338LM]

I definitely prefer the Premier 25x Gen 2 XR over the S&B P4F.

 

[scudzuki]

OK, So yes the Steiner has the best eye box, no doubt. But as stated at 25x the MSR is annoyingly thick, as well you might notice some little burrs on the reticle itself. I have most of the high end optics and really at that level I fool myself in thinking I can tell the difference in glass quality. Really they are all very close, too close to tell most of time. I love my SnB p4f 25x but I really find that between eye box and nice reticle at high power the Premier 25x GEN2XR is the best of most worlds. It is hard to fault for me.

I vote Premier this time.

I dumped my S&B because I bought a 5-25 scope, not an 8-25.
I find it insulting that scope manufacturers release models with tunneling just to polish their specs.

No one reduces the magnification on their variable power scope because they want less magnification, they do it to increase field of view. Any reduction in power that does not yield an increase in field of view is pointless... and a company that has been making scopes for as long as S&B knows this. The bottom 3x is just to pad the numbers.

Joe

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Well rumor from Steiner is that they will be coming out with a modified version of the MSR with a thinner center. So hold out for it and have them swap reticles for you when it does appear

 

[Pleistarchus]

Well rumor from Steiner is that they will be coming out with a modified version of the MSR with a thinner center. So hold out for it and have them swap reticles for you when it does appear

Not sure about them "Swapping" it out but I found out that they are working on a thinner reticle, question is when will it be available. I'm being drawn to the March 5-40 with the floating dot. They claim an eyerelief of over 3.6-3.88 inches, could that be possible. Bad thing is Kelby's is past the 10% discount and not budging on the $3500 price tag....ouch. Thinking of finally going to Manatee 1000y range, that might just push me over the top. Looks like were selling stuff again.

 

[Shoottothrill]

It is very difficult to find one reticle that does everything well. I know a thin reticle is great when your shooting small groups on paper, but that same reticle looking into a dark bush, or trying to make a shot at dusk is worthless. Also if your reticle is too thin on a first focal plane scope then when you have the scope dialed way down it can become hard to see. I can tell you this, I don't ever think I will sell my S&B MSR.

 

[Pleistarchus]

It is very difficult to find one reticle that does everything well. I know a thin reticle is great when your shooting small groups on paper, but that same reticle looking into a dark bush, or trying to make a shot at dusk is worthless. Also if your reticle is too thin on a first focal plane scope then when you have the scope dialed way down it can become hard to see. I can tell you this, I don't ever think I will sell my S&B MSR.

Do you think the P4Fine would also be worthless trying to make a shot at dusk?

 

[Rob01]

At the lowest power it will be hard to see at dusk but you can turn on the illumination although it only illuminates the center +. This is why I like the H2CMR. The whole reticle illuminates and it also has the hollow mildots so you can see the reticle better at lower powers.

H2CMR at 5x


P4F at 5x

 

[Shoottothrill]

Do you think the P4Fine would also be worthless trying to make a shot at dusk?

Worthless may be a strong word. If you look at the picture Robo1 posted of the P4f it looks great on paper, but if you raised your point of aim to something in the dark woods behind the paper target you can see how the reticle would be hard to pick up.

 

[Pleistarchus]

Worthless may be a strong word. If you look at the picture Robo1 posted of the P4f it looks great on paper, but if you raised your point of aim to something in the dark woods behind the paper target you can see how the reticle would be hard to pick up.

OK I understand what you are saying. I always had illumination in mind to such a scenario, but without, you would be correct to say "worthless". I just placed an order for a March scope with the FML-1 reticle. It's a mil reticle with a floating dot, not too thin, not too thick and if the eye relief is what they claim than this scope is just what I'm looking for. What I'm looking for is a comfort zone in my equipment. I want my equipment to fit me and me my equipment. I want to go out, shoot a competition and never blame my equipment or set-up for missing my target. Only with trial and error is that possible, which is what brings me here. Though others will swear by what works for them, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work for someone else. Find what works for you and use it. Only with time will I know if the March is what I'm looking for, until then we are just one step closer to finding it.

 

[Pleistarchus]

At the lowest power it will be hard to see at dusk but you can turn on the illumination although it only illuminates the center +. This is why I like the H2CMR. The whole reticle illuminates and it also has the hollow mildots so you can see the reticle better at lower powers.

H2CMR at 5x


P4F at 5x

Rob, Thanks for posting these pics. I did have the P4F for about 4-5 months and was perfect. I just couldn't get used to the eyebox/eye relief levels were very uncomfortable for me. So far, S&B is out, Steiner is out and next on the list is March. We'll see how it feels. Thanks again

 

[Pleistarchus]

We'll see in a week how this one looks up close. March FX 5-40 FMA-1 moa reticle with full illumination. Simple, easy to read. I think this is what I'm looking for. Fingers crossed.

 

[jtrax]

We'll see in a week how this one looks up close. March FX 5-40 FMA-1 moa reticle with full illumination. Simple, easy to read. I think this is what I'm looking for. Fingers crossed.

You should be pleased with the March FX 5-40x56. I own both the mil and the moa version. Glass is excellent, turrets track true. The reticle is very well executed and the floating dot allows very precise aiming point. I own or have owned all of the scopes mentioned in this thread (sold the Steiner). I could have said this for several of the other scopes mentioned here, but you made a good decision in my opinion.

 

[Pleistarchus]

You should be pleased with the March FX 5-40x56. I own both the mil and the moa version. Glass is excellent, turrets track true. The reticle is very well executed and the floating dot allows very precise aiming point. I own or have owned all of the scopes mentioned in this thread (sold the Steiner). I could have said this for several of the other scopes mentioned here, but you made a good decision in my opinion.

I remember a little while back that Steiner was almost mine.