-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Why do democrats dislike the middle class?
- Thread starter OldSalty
- Start date
It is a mystery why the left worships an 80 year old avowed communist who is a millionaire with three homes. Their hero has never been gainfully employed outside of elected government jobs, never passed a bill or piece of legislation he authored and owns three homes. He donates nothing to charity and does not pay a single extra dollar in taxes.
A bunch of bums who can't be bothered to get up to go to work isn't much of a threat.
You will be impressed with the speed a lazy dirt bag would kill you and steal your crap if they only had half a chance. Let the power go out for five days and see what happens. The entitled of the earth always feel entitled to rob you if their check is late.
You do know that getting a deferment means he went where he was supposed to go, and a military doc said he was unfit. That's not draft dodging.
I'd love to hear NV700's take on Bernie Sanders military service? Or Obama's? Or Biden's. Tell us all about Bill Clinton's time in the 'nam? Or Hillary's for that matter?
Draft dodging and cowardice are the stock and trade of the left and man do they cast stones.
Amen. We should start a gofundme to buy one way plane tickets to a socialist country for anyone who is willing to renounce their citizenship, so they can go get government funded freebies.
While it would be fun they'll never go to where they are running out of money.
The US is currently the free shit mecca in the sky.
R
This is the level of discourse I despise and what is fundamentally wrong with the state of our country.
my post did not make a single attack on the republican electorate or any single poster to this thread. I made no inclination of anyone hear being a paid shill for Fox News (technically fox entertainment since there are the two distinct divisions who operate on the same channel)
it’s early and I’m tired. Not sure if your statement of impending failure in life was meant as a wish or an assertion of fact.
I hope you do not fail in life it serves me as a member of this country no advantage for you to fail
Nothing I wrote about was anti-American. Nothing. With all do respect everything I wrote about is pro-America. Wanting the best for us as a whole
The OP posted in response, to my post in regards to Democrat empty promises. A good idea done wrong does not make it a bad idea. One of the problems we have is all to often our politicians work for failure to use as evidence that they were correct.
if you were changing a tire and planned on only using a floor jack for support and another suggested a jack stand for support. Is one right over the other? But if during the repair the other pushes and rocks the car or forced it to be changed on a dangerous hill and failure occurred whose fault was it?
currently we have another republican administration who preaches financial responsibility who intern issued significant tax cuts but has done nothing to meaningfully reduce spending.
they talk about cutting entitlements. Ok kill food stamps. That would be like someone telling you to get your personal finances under control and your response being fine I’ll stop buying toilette paper for the house. It is a drop in the bucket.
these programs areeffectively welfare yes but they are also booms to businesses. Think about some of the ridiculous military contract to build shit we don’tneed. Why it’s welfare stalled in a flag. Hard to say no when it’s for themilitary even if it’s not needed but it’s millions sometimes billions of economic stimulus.
teachers: talk to teachers they deserve it. Complaining that kids are graduating high school and are functionally retarded? Well it’s not correct and even if it was, the answer is not ending educational programs or public schools it’s making the corrections that need to be made. And putting the right incentives in place.
IDs to vote: All for it! Absolutely on board that if you vote in this country you should have to provide proof of who you are, where you live and it should match an updated voter role sheet. But! If you are going to impose such a rule (which I support) first the infrastructure should be put into place to 1. Make getting an ID card easier which in many areas means geography. I would propose using places like libraries as a place where a person can establish their residency and apply for an ID cars get a photo done, same thing with post offices, if they can fill out info for a passport they can do an ID card. 2. It should be free. Why, we can not impose a financial hurdle to voting. The need/requirement to provide proof of who you are if imposed by the government should then be free. Again it serves everyone an advantage by having this done. I once had a man who had to show me proof of ID hand me a 20 year old prison ID card. I thought damn think howF’d up this system is that this man who has been out out of prison nearly 20 years has only that photo ID to show people yet he was given that one. I’m sure at some point over a two decade period he could have shifted resources to get a real ID card and that’s on him. But it made me think there must have been plenty of people recently released dealing with the same issue creating a new road block to them becoming productive.
Democrats love illegals because with 7 million open jobs it wont be long until folks start asking why we still have able bodied folks on welfare.
No not bragging. I’ve made adjustment where needed so that it is not impacting me financially to the point of an issue and I support the growth in my area that is being funded by my taxes.
I have a special needs son who receives nearly every reasonable resource imaginable at his public school should I be angry about the taxes I pay to receive that? Should my neighbor be angry that they are paying the same but their child needs less resources at the same school? My neighbor is currently pregnant, I guess if they are angry about the inequality of cost to school my child vs her child she should really hope her new born doesn’t have any issues that would make it more expensive.
I know what I get for my taxes. So I think the money could be better spent yes absolutely but I’m ok spending it. When I took my father in law to the VA last month was it first rate service no! Was it acceptable yes and do I mind paying into that system not one bit.
Blue team owns this.
The inevitable end to identity politics.
You labor under the ideal that being robbed creates societal good.
R
The operative difference is your ideology requires us to forfeit our rights and property to satisfy a dream of some unattainable utopian society. Our ideology only requires you to take responsibility for yourself. Quite a difference.
You might give the constitution a once over before you make that claim.
There's a famous road paved with good intentions.
Spending originates in the house. Guess who controls that? The same group who initiated massive deficits under obama.
The defense budget usually makes up 15-16% of the budget, entitlements, 70%.
With military spending we get the most powerful military in world history. With entitlements we get 5th generation bums. An adult, without a legitimate disability can reasonably be expected to support himself. If you know an individual who can monitor and defend our entire country by himself, I'd sure like to meet him.
Student performance was much higher before the feds got involved. The correction that needs to be made is obvious.
No it’s not casting stones
not serving is well the right of an American. It’s why the sacrifice of those who do means as much as it does. Please keep in mind I used my father as part of that example. Why, he didn’t want to go. Hard to blame a guy for not wanting to go to Vietnam. Again this is what makes those who willingly put themselves in harms way so special. My father followed protocol and when he was told to report he did. Prior to that he did everything he could not to get called besides leaving the country. He followed the law.
Trump bought his way out. The. Openly disparaged a man like john McCain. I never was a full on McCain supporter. United wondered what’s a McCain Liberian ticket would have looked like and often wished that hadhappened.
the others didn’t serve ok. I’m sure Clinton took the same route as my father which was the same route Cheney took which was to reenroll in college since at the time they weren’t taking active student until later.
Bernie I honestly don’t know what bernies history military history is. I’m not a big Bernie guy myself. I do support a version of universal healthcare but again in my business I see the back side of medical billing between patients, medical providers, insurance companies and Medicare and Medicaid so I do feel I am knowledgeable in this area and it is possible. It can not be a simple two year role out but it is functionally possible and would benefit the country if done properly. The issue is everyone would rather throw monkey wrenches instead of working towards a goal.
current minimum wage is $7.25 that’s $14,500 before taxes. But at that tax bracket your not really paying federally and are likely to get an earned income tax credit. So let’s just say it’s $16k? Seems fare
so 20 year HS education no other skill set per se except they are working hard every day maybe they are taking classes at night (let’s hope)
can it be done sure. Geography is going to play a big role. Here in dallas area they couldn’t live alone they would need a roommate that’s fine and reasonable. But it doesgo against the initial idea that a hard working person could do it on their own.
$500 rent
$100 utilities
$100 car insurance
$100 for gas?
$200 food
That’s $12k a year and assumes they own a car already hasn’t accounted for health care those supposed classes they may be taking certainly no savings
now most will discount and say yea but they are 20. Ok but I’ve met many home health workers, daycare employees, general merchants/clerks who are making minimum or just above
now I have counseled many young people in support I’d guess what you didn’t do the work when you were young to get the better job now that your older sister in exchange for the freedom and care free life then you get to work two jobs now. Because that’s reality. But it doesn’t help us as a whole because when you run people to the ragged edge people fall off the edge and bad shit happens. I have a vested interest in my neighbor staying gainfully employed and not being a crack addict and not gambling away the house. Because if shit goes south they will bring problems to my door.
some take the passage I am my brothers keeper to different levels and I am not religious but it’s a simple mindset of if the people around you are struggling eventually their shit will hit you
Part of the reason healthcare and education costs have increased is due to govt involvement. Subsidies, govt backed loans etc have all contributed to these cost increases. I will not even get started on k-12 education where democrats and leftist polocies are largely responsible for churning out millions of graduates who do not even have basic skills for employment. This despite spending more and more.
Its pretty simple. When the govt is involved, costs generally increase and quality dimenishes.
The social saftey net has out-kicked its coverage. This has went from helping someone get through a rough patch and get back on their feet, to generational dependence.
Its pretty simple. Govt involvement and increases in entitlements have contributed to and perpetuated the reliance on social services. Why? Free stuff for your vote.
Its interesting to see a democrat refer to how illegal aliens are basically quasi slave-labor, true intentions I suppose. Doing the jobs americans do not want and being paid a non-living wage...sounds so democrat-like. Aside from that, which IMO is bad enough...illegals do not pay into our system but yet take advantage of its services. Moreover, democrats want to provide even more free services to illegals such as healthcare and education. Why is this? Likely preparing for the day amnesty is given and poof 30 million new voters (many are voting now as well).
Bottom line, free stuff for your vote. I will not even get started on H1B.
None of this really answers my OP. I believe democrats should concede to the fact that the tax cuts DID help the middle class. And instead argue increases on taxes based on the merits. Be honest and let the people decide if they want to pay more into the system...
No, cant do that. Just perpetuate a lie that the tax cut didnt help. While behind the scenes planning to increase the very taxes you say didnt get cut. Democrat logic.
Its pretty simple. When the govt is involved, costs generally increase and quality dimenishes.
The social saftey net has out-kicked its coverage. This has went from helping someone get through a rough patch and get back on their feet, to generational dependence.
Its pretty simple. Govt involvement and increases in entitlements have contributed to and perpetuated the reliance on social services. Why? Free stuff for your vote.
Its interesting to see a democrat refer to how illegal aliens are basically quasi slave-labor, true intentions I suppose. Doing the jobs americans do not want and being paid a non-living wage...sounds so democrat-like. Aside from that, which IMO is bad enough...illegals do not pay into our system but yet take advantage of its services. Moreover, democrats want to provide even more free services to illegals such as healthcare and education. Why is this? Likely preparing for the day amnesty is given and poof 30 million new voters (many are voting now as well).
Bottom line, free stuff for your vote. I will not even get started on H1B.
None of this really answers my OP. I believe democrats should concede to the fact that the tax cuts DID help the middle class. And instead argue increases on taxes based on the merits. Be honest and let the people decide if they want to pay more into the system...
No, cant do that. Just perpetuate a lie that the tax cut didnt help. While behind the scenes planning to increase the very taxes you say didnt get cut. Democrat logic.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
"Yellow dog Democrat" they are mostly dead now. "vote for a yellow dog before they would vote for any Republican". A major part of America's Greatest Generation. Today's Demecratic party can no longer rely on them. Because they are dead. They kept the freak show restricted to the boardwalk. Now, Jo Jo the Dog Face Boy is fucking Elizabeth up her ass and now they are stuck together and garden hoses have been banned.
I've heard this same warning over and over. But the Demmunists, who demand that we accept the opinion of any shithole-refugee who wants communism, also utterly ignore the opinion of any refugee who escaped communism. Funny enough, the Commucrat party loved the USSR up until 1991, but then they suddenly hated Russia. Wonder why.
www.breitbart.com
Lithuanian Immigrant: Bernie Fans 'Should Go to a Socialist Country'
A Lithuanian immigrant who attended Trump's rally warned of the dangers of communism and socialism after she fled from it.
www.breitbart.com
A small minority of government checks are welfare. Most are entitlement programs for the elderly.
Trump’s doctor was a tenant in his fathers building rather than a military doctor.
If Trump was smarter he would specifically order the acceptance of refugees and asylees from communism, socialism or the genocide of whites and he would have them settled in battleground states.
You do realize that the vast majority of the "elderly" that you refer to, paid into the Social Security and Medicare system for decades, right ? I'm pretty confident that not only did they earn those benefits, in reality, they are getting back their own money that they put in. Welfare recipients ? Not so much.
Bill Clinton was a draft dodger too. Your point ? I'm not saying dodging is OK, it's not. But, Trump isn't the only one that is potentially guilty of it. A little "even keeled" perspective from you/liberals would be a welcome thing.
Last edited:
Dem politicians feel that they are better than everyone else, look at the last Dem Debate, and just listen to how they all seem to look down on us "lower" forms of life. Also they want those who rely solely on the govt, but I don't know who would be left to support their BS once everyone is relying on the govt. Plus they don't want anyone thinking for themselves, they want to do the thinking for you. It forces you into a type of slavery lifestyle where the govt is the master, and the people are the slaves.
I think every one of these politicians that vote to go to war should have to end up spending at least a week on the front lines with the troops, to see what they signed up their constituents husband's, son's, father's, etc. for.
Preferably on an apparatus such as this:
No point regarding draft dodging except a clarification about a fact.
Social Security is a tax, not an investment fund. Your benefits will be paid with last months taxes. Bernie Madoff is jealous. High earners will get back half what they paid in. Lower earners will get back twice what they paid in. There are more low earners than high earners. The SSI and SSDI portions are a different deal.
Well, it sounds like we have a draw then, right ? Your albatross is bill clinton and conservatives albatross is Trump. Agreed ?
I am conservative. Unlike Trump I’ve never even been a Democrat.
Classical conservatism includes communitarian elements. The failing of most in the US intellectually is presuming that radical liberalism (in the classical sense) is in fact conservatism.
Do you believe that society is made of the living, the dead and the yet to be born? Do we have a responsibility simultaneously to our ancestors and descendants?
Classical conservatism includes communitarian elements. The failing of most in the US intellectually is presuming that radical liberalism (in the classical sense) is in fact conservatism.
Do you believe that society is made of the living, the dead and the yet to be born? Do we have a responsibility simultaneously to our ancestors and descendants?
For the same reason the French have attitudes. Liberal types are generally not suited for military service; either physical, mentally, maturity level or all three. This causes a feeling of inadequacy when interacting with service members/veterans and they react with arrogance and hatred.
No difference. Unless you were self employed, half of your SS and Medicare was paid for by someone else. Nevermind that when SS was passed in 1935,the age to collect benefits was 65, even though the average life expectancy was only 61. Ss was a sneaky way to give long term low interest loans to an FDR government facing real fears of bankruptcy.
I've seen those stories in the NYT and other lefty rags. The doc was paid off, or it was a personal favor, with nothing substantiating either claim. Either way it was a diagnosis from a doc the military accepted. A deferment, not draft dodging.
We have a responsibility to the dead, not to let their sacrifices be in vain. Giving away our freedoms for the promise of something shiny means their effort of making a free country were for naught. We owe it to the future generations not to sell them into slavery with debt to fund social programs.
Is it just odd coincidence there were no charity programs at the federal level until the 1930s?
Or as the 10th points out, was that a function left to states, local government, and individuals?
Love the blame of other parties. Guess what? Republicans and Democrats are both wrong. Supporting either party is wrong. Neither party cares about the middle class or the poor. The political elite spend their careers doing whatever it takes to keep themselves above us. And they have us convinced it's the have nots that are the problem.
Sad to think the collapse of the country will be due to a con job, that people recognized as a con, but couldn't be bothered to do anything about it.
Six one way, half dozen the other. Social spending is still the cause.
The country will collapse when one day we hit the wall that there is nobody else to borrow money from and nobody else to steal it from and future generations have already been sold into slavery so far into the future that we can't sell any more.
People can go on about "cutting spending" or "raising taxes to reduce the deficit", the answer is it really doesn't matter, you might as well cut taxes and let everyone get to save as much of their own money as possible before we hit the wall which is inevitable and unavoidable. Both parties and everyone that actually stops and thinks will understand that given our current political system, it is impossible to even balance the budget let alone try to pay down the debt. There simply is not the political will on the side of the voting public for it.
So enjoy the ride till it hits the wall, and perhaps if you get to keep more of your money, you can make plans to be able to jump off the train before it actually hits the wall and be able to watch the crash from a safe distance.
Take a good look at the recent history of Greece if you want to see where it's headed, but this time for us, there won't be someone to turn the loans back on if we agree to run government as they say.
Think of it as a game of musical chairs, everyone knows there are no chairs left in the middle, but everybody is happy to keep pretending as long as someone keeps playing the music, and everyone will try to keep the music playing as long as possible.
Cutting entitlement spending, while keeping taxes the same, for a while, would pay down the debt pretty quickly. That would depend on dems never being in power.
If you think about it, to just balance the budget, you'll need to cut at least 35% of government spending while keeping tax income the same.
Start going through the budget and see how much you would actually have to cut and realistically think if there is any political will that could be mustered from enough of the population to make it possible to to do those cuts. You think anyone on SS is going to vote to cut off their payments? You think anyone retired is going to vote to cut off their pensions. You think the millions of government workers that depend on programs for their jobs will vote to eliminate their jobs? You think the millions of households that are the beneficiaries of at least some kind of government benefit program are going to vote to cut off their benefits?
Entitlements make up 70%.
No, I don't think folks will vote to do it, but it needs to happen anyway.
SCOTUS has already ruled no one has a right to their SS money.
The new deal was widely considered unconstitutional (correctly) during its passage, but the socialist, FDR, threatened to pack SCOTUS to keep it from being voted down.
Yep - and that'd be an instant hit to our GDP of ~5%. It'd instantly cause a massive recession. Ain't never gonna happen.
It can't "happen anyway" unless folks are willing to vote for it, or specifically vote for politicians that will do it.
I can pretty much guarantee you nobody will get voted in or stay voted in who will actually do that.
So essentially it won't ever happen until it hits a wall and is forced to happen.
True but the beauty of it is that they have convinced everyone to protect what is "theirs" even though in reality the actual money was spent long ago and what they have is simply a promise to try to tax someone else to pay for your benefits.
Just try for a moment even here on the hide, see if you could get everyone receiving SS payments or military pensions / disability payments / state funded pensions that it would be great if they could all vote to just go cold turkey and give it up because it would be better to make things good for a couple generations from now.
Bet down to almost every last one it will be "I paid for it and I deserve and am owed what I'm supposed to get".
Now if you were to go over how much of that is things that the constitution requires the government to do (As actually in the constitution, NOT stupid court rulings about "owed money") you'd see just how small a budget the government could actually run on. Even if you wanted a pretty bloated military, still, the government could work on much less.
The other scary thing is how big a chunk just the medicare and health entitlement spending is, then think about every socialist democrat candidate that wants to make healthcare a "right" and have "Medicare for all" (including of course anyone that walks across the border). How fast would that bring about national insolvency, regardless of how high you tried to push taxes?
Similar threads
