win folks over? It isn't as big by far as the .17HMR. But ammo costs were about half also. I still think this was the best squirrel hunting round ever. What say you guys?
Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
- Thread starter Phil Burns
- Start date
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I was thinking, when it came out, that it would fill a niche market. Building rifles on .22 actions would be a part of that niche.
I was thinking, when it came out, that it would fill a niche market. Building rifles on .22 actions would be a part of that niche.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
Because everyone talks bad about it. Ammo at shops are HMR price or a little lower. People believe the hype of the HMR. etc.
Because everyone talks bad about it. Ammo at shops are HMR price or a little lower. People believe the hype of the HMR. etc.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I thing a lot of people didn't think that it would be a good enough performer out of a 22lr case. You lose quite a bit of bullet mass for a so-so velocity gain. I have an HMR and love the heck out of it. What makes it so devastating on small game is the super light bullet traveling at 3000 fps (give or take, never chronyed mine) pretty much turns into a grenade when it impacts. Ive made one shot kills on bobcats at 100+yds if you hit them in the head.
I thing a lot of people didn't think that it would be a good enough performer out of a 22lr case. You lose quite a bit of bullet mass for a so-so velocity gain. I have an HMR and love the heck out of it. What makes it so devastating on small game is the super light bullet traveling at 3000 fps (give or take, never chronyed mine) pretty much turns into a grenade when it impacts. Ive made one shot kills on bobcats at 100+yds if you hit them in the head.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Their performance just doesn't justify the cost of the ammo or buying another rifle.
Availablility is also a problem in some areas...not everyone is willing to go online to buy ammo. </div></div>
Here in liberal NJ, we can NOT order ammo on line or by mail and big brother keeps a record of all "handgun" ammo purchases. For that reason, I buy all of my pistol and rimfire ammo in PA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Their performance just doesn't justify the cost of the ammo or buying another rifle.
Availablility is also a problem in some areas...not everyone is willing to go online to buy ammo. </div></div>
Here in liberal NJ, we can NOT order ammo on line or by mail and big brother keeps a record of all "handgun" ammo purchases. For that reason, I buy all of my pistol and rimfire ammo in PA.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
SNorules, I think you are about 500 fps high there. Again with the HMR hype. HMR 25-2600, HM2 21-2300(Eley). Hm2 for rabbits, squirrels, Pdogs even some here have used them on ghogs out to 125 yard. HMR for making holes, and shooting stuff further away. Many have dumped the HMR because it made too much of a mess when hunting.
SNorules, I think you are about 500 fps high there. Again with the HMR hype. HMR 25-2600, HM2 21-2300(Eley). Hm2 for rabbits, squirrels, Pdogs even some here have used them on ghogs out to 125 yard. HMR for making holes, and shooting stuff further away. Many have dumped the HMR because it made too much of a mess when hunting.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I love mine. Eley ammo as cheap as most 22LR match ammo. It blows squirrels heads clean off and is ridiculously accurate. I got my Savage Mark IIFV for 225 bucks and it is super accurate. Love the little round.
I love mine. Eley ammo as cheap as most 22LR match ammo. It blows squirrels heads clean off and is ridiculously accurate. I got my Savage Mark IIFV for 225 bucks and it is super accurate. Love the little round.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
When both 17 rimfires came out the 17 MII looked real good to me.
reasoning that if the round went the way of the 5MM remington, I would have nice .22 lr with a barrel swap.
As it is, I have several bricks of ammo, fired it once in 2009,
three rounds 2010, and this spring shot a whole half a box of ammo.
When shooting gophers the .17 bullet gets "lost" in the wind and grass.
With the .22 long rifle more dirt gets kicked up and I can see my correction, and get hits with less rounds when the wind is blowing.
When both 17 rimfires came out the 17 MII looked real good to me.
reasoning that if the round went the way of the 5MM remington, I would have nice .22 lr with a barrel swap.
As it is, I have several bricks of ammo, fired it once in 2009,
three rounds 2010, and this spring shot a whole half a box of ammo.
When shooting gophers the .17 bullet gets "lost" in the wind and grass.
With the .22 long rifle more dirt gets kicked up and I can see my correction, and get hits with less rounds when the wind is blowing.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I love the 17 cal in general and the M2 is a favorite in a TC semi-auto---other favorite is a 700 in 17 Fireball---due to these personal favorites, I do not own an HMR or 17 Rem anymore
as the 2 above more than fulfill my needs
I love the 17 cal in general and the M2 is a favorite in a TC semi-auto---other favorite is a 700 in 17 Fireball---due to these personal favorites, I do not own an HMR or 17 Rem anymore
as the 2 above more than fulfill my needs
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine.
I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I think early on inconsistant ammo was a big culprit along with a lot of bad 10/22 conversions as well as brand names blew up. When guns blow up, the lawyers say back off,so a lot of makers quit making them. 17hm2 has a wicked pressure spike, not to good for blow back actions, allthough it can be done. I love the little round...I think if more people had shot these they would like them.No room for a new round? Come on, every day there is a new short mag, redneck mag ect..Some blew up and its all about the benjamin's ..Can you say Corvair? Any one know of a CZ in 17hm2 for sale?
I think early on inconsistant ammo was a big culprit along with a lot of bad 10/22 conversions as well as brand names blew up. When guns blow up, the lawyers say back off,so a lot of makers quit making them. 17hm2 has a wicked pressure spike, not to good for blow back actions, allthough it can be done. I love the little round...I think if more people had shot these they would like them.No room for a new round? Come on, every day there is a new short mag, redneck mag ect..Some blew up and its all about the benjamin's ..Can you say Corvair? Any one know of a CZ in 17hm2 for sale?
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I have to wonder a bit why 'we' think it failed and by what measure? Can I get a 17hm2 rifle and ammo? Yes. Might I have to make arrangements to do so? Yes.
But then, here on the Hide we see rifles mentioned casually that you would be lucky to see outside of a major metropolitian area super gun store or specialty competitions, in calibers that average joe hasn't heard of, nor prices he'd consider!
I didn't have a 22lr rifle before I bought my 77/17m2 so I wasn't faced with already owning 'something close.' I liked the idea of a flatter shooting round with a bit less ricochet. I found ammo I could order, and comparable to quality 22lr prices - so that's a wash, and I'm not frustrated by matching the 22lr ammo to the rifles taste.
As I see it now...the problems associated with running it in a semi-auto are why it's not more broadly distributed.
By no means did it fail.
I have to wonder a bit why 'we' think it failed and by what measure? Can I get a 17hm2 rifle and ammo? Yes. Might I have to make arrangements to do so? Yes.
But then, here on the Hide we see rifles mentioned casually that you would be lucky to see outside of a major metropolitian area super gun store or specialty competitions, in calibers that average joe hasn't heard of, nor prices he'd consider!
I didn't have a 22lr rifle before I bought my 77/17m2 so I wasn't faced with already owning 'something close.' I liked the idea of a flatter shooting round with a bit less ricochet. I found ammo I could order, and comparable to quality 22lr prices - so that's a wash, and I'm not frustrated by matching the 22lr ammo to the rifles taste.
As I see it now...the problems associated with running it in a semi-auto are why it's not more broadly distributed.
By no means did it fail.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
Don't know if its entirely related, but there were some factory recalls of semi auto rifles chambered for the 17m2. I believe at least smith & wesson issued a recall, there could have been others. I think it had to do with a reliability/safety issue in blow-back operated actions, perhaps someone knows more about it.
Don't know if its entirely related, but there were some factory recalls of semi auto rifles chambered for the 17m2. I believe at least smith & wesson issued a recall, there could have been others. I think it had to do with a reliability/safety issue in blow-back operated actions, perhaps someone knows more about it.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine. </div></div>
I have a LR and hm2, and I don't see a place for the hmr. hm2 is 80% of the HMR for 50% of the price. If I want to get longer than the hm2, I have a .223, and can be reloaded for the same price as the HMR. And groups with the hm2 seem to be better per dollar than the 22LR. I think those who haven't shot it don't like it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine. </div></div>
I have a LR and hm2, and I don't see a place for the hmr. hm2 is 80% of the HMR for 50% of the price. If I want to get longer than the hm2, I have a .223, and can be reloaded for the same price as the HMR. And groups with the hm2 seem to be better per dollar than the 22LR. I think those who haven't shot it don't like it.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine. </div></div>
I have a LR and hm2, and I don't see a place for the hmr. hm2 is 80% of the HMR for 50% of the price. If I want to get longer than the hm2, I have a .223, and can be reloaded for the same price as the HMR. And groups with the hm2 seem to be better per dollar than the 22LR. I think those who haven't shot it don't like it. </div></div>
Exactly - Best rat rifle ever.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't think there is room for the HMII. It is middled by the 22LR and the 17HMR. If you want velocity / range, the HMR does far better. If you want match accuracy up close or economy, the 22LR does that well.
True, the 17HMII is cheaper than 17 HMR to feed, but I think when most people are looking to step up the velocity from 22LR, they go to the HMR. And if they want something that is cheap to feed, 22LR, or as pointed out above, 22 hyper velocity or stingers work just fine. </div></div>
I have a LR and hm2, and I don't see a place for the hmr. hm2 is 80% of the HMR for 50% of the price. If I want to get longer than the hm2, I have a .223, and can be reloaded for the same price as the HMR. And groups with the hm2 seem to be better per dollar than the 22LR. I think those who haven't shot it don't like it. </div></div>
Exactly - Best rat rifle ever.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I think that whomever it was who bet the farm on inventing the .17HMII had blinders on that prevented them from seeing the 800lb gorilla in the room. Funny to be calling the .22LR an 800lb gorilla, but in that room, that's precisely what it's been all along.
IMHO, a .17 caliber jacketed bullet is kinda insipid, in any case. It's fouls too fast, and it's got the wind bucking potential of a chicken feather. Combining it with a standard .22LR-length rimfire casing simply makes a very affordable, highly satisfactory solution to a broad set of requirements into something a lot less affordable. It's an excellent answer to way too few folks' questions.
If I need something with more zip than the .22LR, I got my Deuce; and at least with the Deuce, I can seek, find, and personally produce a load combination that matches my barrel's harmonics. I never did put huge stock in a quality control process that I can't even observe.
I had some fascination with the round when it first appeared. I figured all I'd need would be an alternate barrel for my 10/22; but not so. Turned out there was very likely a bolt mod involved too, and my bolt has already had mods to make it better compatible with subsonic match ammo. I'm not gonna mess with it any more than I've already had to.
So for me, beyond some initial curiosity, the thrill is gone, Baby...
Greg
I think that whomever it was who bet the farm on inventing the .17HMII had blinders on that prevented them from seeing the 800lb gorilla in the room. Funny to be calling the .22LR an 800lb gorilla, but in that room, that's precisely what it's been all along.
IMHO, a .17 caliber jacketed bullet is kinda insipid, in any case. It's fouls too fast, and it's got the wind bucking potential of a chicken feather. Combining it with a standard .22LR-length rimfire casing simply makes a very affordable, highly satisfactory solution to a broad set of requirements into something a lot less affordable. It's an excellent answer to way too few folks' questions.
If I need something with more zip than the .22LR, I got my Deuce; and at least with the Deuce, I can seek, find, and personally produce a load combination that matches my barrel's harmonics. I never did put huge stock in a quality control process that I can't even observe.
I had some fascination with the round when it first appeared. I figured all I'd need would be an alternate barrel for my 10/22; but not so. Turned out there was very likely a bolt mod involved too, and my bolt has already had mods to make it better compatible with subsonic match ammo. I'm not gonna mess with it any more than I've already had to.
So for me, beyond some initial curiosity, the thrill is gone, Baby...
Greg
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I don't know why the HMII didn't catch on, if I ever find a good deal on one I'll pick it up. On the other hand, I certainly can't understand why the 17HMR has any type of following. I can reload my .17 Fireball for the same cost and you can get the FN5.7 rounds for just a little more and reload for a lot less.
I don't know why the HMII didn't catch on, if I ever find a good deal on one I'll pick it up. On the other hand, I certainly can't understand why the 17HMR has any type of following. I can reload my .17 Fireball for the same cost and you can get the FN5.7 rounds for just a little more and reload for a lot less.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
Because the 22lr in a good hot version (like stinger or yellow jacket or any good hunting hollow point LR )is just so hard to beat, so easy to find and cheap to aquire.
And if we need hotter, bump up to the 17HMR or 22Win Mag.
As far as comparing it to the performance hotter center fires, there is no comparison.
As far as buying off the shelf, readily available ammo for cheap, the 22LR,17HMR and the 22 Win Mag is hard to beat for the availability and price per pop.
That just doesn't leave much room for the 17HMII to excell.
......SmokeRolls
Because the 22lr in a good hot version (like stinger or yellow jacket or any good hunting hollow point LR )is just so hard to beat, so easy to find and cheap to aquire.
And if we need hotter, bump up to the 17HMR or 22Win Mag.
As far as comparing it to the performance hotter center fires, there is no comparison.
As far as buying off the shelf, readily available ammo for cheap, the 22LR,17HMR and the 22 Win Mag is hard to beat for the availability and price per pop.
That just doesn't leave much room for the 17HMII to excell.
......SmokeRolls
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I think it depends on what you like.
Look at all the 30 caliber options out there for hunting (300 win mag, 300 wsm, 30-06, 30-30, 303 British, 308, and some others). People will swear by their particular chosen caliber because they like it or it is 100 fps faster than another.
If you are talking aobut killing squirrels, The Bayou Boys specialize in it. We have killed over 1300 in the last 3 years. Yes 1300. You can check out some of our tailgate shots.
www.TheBayouBoys.net
We usually bring at least one 22 rifle (often 2) and one shotgunner. I bought a 17m2 from a guy and it is a tack driver. If you shoot the squirrel anywhere other than the head, you have messed it up badly. Here's what a mach 2 will do. http://www.thebayouboys.net/apps/photos/photo?photoid=69007299
You try shooting a squirrel with a 17 HMR, and you will just explode the rodent!
I thoroughly enjoy the 17M2 caliber and it is much cheaper to shoot than the HMR. It is a nice, flat fast liitle round.
I have shot several coons with it too. A big coon can soak up some 22 rounds if he is hidden where you can't get a head shot. The 17M2 he can NOT tolerate. He's coming out of there everytime, period.
A 17 HMR will explode him.
So I guess it just boils down to what you like and what the application is for.
I think it depends on what you like.
Look at all the 30 caliber options out there for hunting (300 win mag, 300 wsm, 30-06, 30-30, 303 British, 308, and some others). People will swear by their particular chosen caliber because they like it or it is 100 fps faster than another.
If you are talking aobut killing squirrels, The Bayou Boys specialize in it. We have killed over 1300 in the last 3 years. Yes 1300. You can check out some of our tailgate shots.
www.TheBayouBoys.net
We usually bring at least one 22 rifle (often 2) and one shotgunner. I bought a 17m2 from a guy and it is a tack driver. If you shoot the squirrel anywhere other than the head, you have messed it up badly. Here's what a mach 2 will do. http://www.thebayouboys.net/apps/photos/photo?photoid=69007299
You try shooting a squirrel with a 17 HMR, and you will just explode the rodent!
I thoroughly enjoy the 17M2 caliber and it is much cheaper to shoot than the HMR. It is a nice, flat fast liitle round.
I have shot several coons with it too. A big coon can soak up some 22 rounds if he is hidden where you can't get a head shot. The 17M2 he can NOT tolerate. He's coming out of there everytime, period.
A 17 HMR will explode him.
So I guess it just boils down to what you like and what the application is for.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
Price killed it. Why spend the extra money on the little rocket, when you could spend the same $$ on .22LR and shoot all day long.
Price killed it. Why spend the extra money on the little rocket, when you could spend the same $$ on .22LR and shoot all day long.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
Personally owning a CZ 452 American in all four calibers (.17HMR, .17HM2, .22LR, and .22WMR), I can say that the HM2 is my favorite hunting round. I like the ability and range that it has for hunting squirrels in the fall and it does the trick every time. Every time I get the change to let someone new try it, I do. Not many people know of the round and I truly wish this wasn't the case. I don't think that the HM2 failed, it just didn't get to really spread its wings. Those who know of it and use it love it.
I love shooting all my rimfires, especially the 'little rocket'.
Personally owning a CZ 452 American in all four calibers (.17HMR, .17HM2, .22LR, and .22WMR), I can say that the HM2 is my favorite hunting round. I like the ability and range that it has for hunting squirrels in the fall and it does the trick every time. Every time I get the change to let someone new try it, I do. Not many people know of the round and I truly wish this wasn't the case. I don't think that the HM2 failed, it just didn't get to really spread its wings. Those who know of it and use it love it.
I love shooting all my rimfires, especially the 'little rocket'.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I think expense and lack of marketing killed it.
I remember being excited for both rounds when they came out, until I looked at the price of the ammo. I thought to myself, why would I buy a whole new rifle system only to shoot ammo that is significantly more expensive than .22 and near the cost of my .223.
The HMR and HM2 have their places in some shooters arsenals, just not mine. I looked at it from a practical aspect. I have a great shooting .22 rifle that will easily get the job done on any varmint within 100 yards. If I need something with more range, I'll jump to a .223.
I think expense and lack of marketing killed it.
I remember being excited for both rounds when they came out, until I looked at the price of the ammo. I thought to myself, why would I buy a whole new rifle system only to shoot ammo that is significantly more expensive than .22 and near the cost of my .223.
The HMR and HM2 have their places in some shooters arsenals, just not mine. I looked at it from a practical aspect. I have a great shooting .22 rifle that will easily get the job done on any varmint within 100 yards. If I need something with more range, I'll jump to a .223.
Re: Why do you guys think the .17HMII failed to
I don't see how people can put the hm2 and the hmr in the same price group.
HM2
http://www.sgammo.com/product/eley/2000rds-eley-17-mach-2-17gr-v-max-17-hm2
$197($185+12 shipping)/2000 = $.0985 per round
HMR
http://www.sgammo.com/product/17-hmr/50rd-17-hmr-hornady-17-grain-v-max-17
$11.95/50 = $.239 per round
Cheapest I have ever heard of the HMR is $10 per 50, and that is still $.20
I don't see how people can put the hm2 and the hmr in the same price group.
HM2
http://www.sgammo.com/product/eley/2000rds-eley-17-mach-2-17gr-v-max-17-hm2
$197($185+12 shipping)/2000 = $.0985 per round
HMR
http://www.sgammo.com/product/17-hmr/50rd-17-hmr-hornady-17-grain-v-max-17
$11.95/50 = $.239 per round
Cheapest I have ever heard of the HMR is $10 per 50, and that is still $.20
Similar threads
