Rifle Scopes Why does my eye see so much CA?

[Eric32]

I meet up with a friend today at K&M and took out some pretty good glass with us. He has his MK5 5-25 and Gen 2 Razors and my Steiner M7Xi. The weather was pretty cold in the 20s with about a 3-4 inches of fresh snow. Targets are all white as well.

My Steiner has CA with a pretty shiny image. Going back to steiner.

MK5 has CA much better image than the stiener. Colors popped very well.

Vortex Gen 2 Razor none what so ever with a great image and much less pop

My question is why? Is is there a specific reason why vortex does not show show CA Is is there a specific reason why vortex does not show show CA with my eye and the leupold does?

 

[918v]

Different optical design.

 

[Eric32]

Does vortex share a design or have traits that other scopes share?

 

[beetroot]

Does vortex share a design or have traits that other scopes share?

The Vortex is a LOW made scope, I believe it shares optical design with other LOW scopes (Cronus, Styker etc) but is by no means the same.

I have a Delta Stryker that shows virtually no CA but if you get off axis too much you induce a fair bit of CA but still keep a full sight picture.

I never used to notice CA but sadly do now, I have a Vortex Strike Eagle that has surprisingly nice glass but suffers from a fair bit of CA.
Only suggestion is to try not to look for it because once you start noticing it you will be plagued by it.

 

[Huskydriver]

Don't ever get a kahles then lol

 

[Eric32]

I had a kahles it DLR nothing to write home about on that one.

I am just getting tired of trying to find scopes that fit my eye.

 

[Huskydriver]

What scopes have you not tried?

 

[Gohring65]

I noticed more CA if I don’t get perfectly lined up behind some optics. If the eye relief isn’t set up for me and I struggle to keep it right because length of pull isn’t set up right.
Tight eye box at high power is another factor where I see it.

 

[Eric32]

TT & ZCO are my next I guess. But that's on the list for sure. I regret selling the 5-25 PMII and my AT when I hit some unexpected money troubles. My entire A/C system crapped out on me in the dead of GA summer

I think I am gonna suck it up with the gen 2 razors and deal with the weight. I know I missed a 1C reticle razor. Not a big Christmas tree guy.

I played with the MK5 for 2 hrs making all the adjustments needed. And the vortex was still better.

 

[Huskydriver]

My zco has the least amount of ca I have ever seen in a scope to my eye.

All I have right now are zco and SB us

 

[Eric32]

I was shoot in the middle of a snow storm and NO CA seen by ME with the razor everything else has the purple on the edges.

I just don't get it. It's a mid tier scope yet to my eye has the best image and No CA.

Just trying to understand why that is.

 

[beetroot]

I was shoot in the middle of a snow storm and NO CA seen by ME with the razor everything else has the purple on the edges.

I just don't get it. It's a mid tier scope yet to my eye has the best image and No CA.

Just trying to understand why that is.

Itll be a combination of your eyes and that particular optical set.

I have a Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 and a 3-15x44, both which are by no means high end optics but they just seem to suit me perfectly, both scopes continue to impress me.

Despite having used some much higher end glass I never find myself wanting (atleast in the glass department).

 

[Eric32]

I was able to shoot my friends PST GEN2 and it also held up with no CA on any of the white plates.

*I guess Gen 2 razor it is

 

[smoothy8500]

My first Steiner T5xi had quite a bit of CA. I sent it in and they replaced it with a factory refurbished. No CA at all. I looked through a friend’s Leupy Mk5 and was surprised that it showed almost as much CA as my Steiner. It doesn’t seem to bother him though.

 

[Glassaholic]

I meet up with a friend today at K&M and took out some pretty good glass with us. He has his MK5 5-25 and Gen 2 Razors and my Steiner M7Xi. The weather was pretty cold in the 20s with about a 3-4 inches of fresh snow. Targets are all white as well.

My Steiner has CA with a pretty shiny image. Going back to steiner.

MK5 has CA much better image than the stiener. Colors popped very well.

Vortex Gen 2 Razor none what so ever with a great image and much less pop

My question is why? Is is there a specific reason why vortex does not show show CA Is is there a specific reason why vortex does not show show CA with my eye and the leupold does?

Different scopes have different optical formulas, CA is caused by a number of things that we can go into detail about if you’d like. I have noticed several things that can exacerbate CA - a poorly set diopter, sample variance between scopes, differing conditions and so forth. So not too surprised you see it in some but not in others. In general the more expensive scopes have the least amount of CA due to higher grades of glass as well as better alignment within the tube, but there are some exceptions to this rule. Of the cheaper scopes the Vortex PST II does better at controlling CA to my eyes, but “better at controlling “ does not necessarily mean eliminating (another conversation).

 

[Eric32]

I set up all the diopters following the dark lords method on all the scopes that day.

Looked at steel plates at 800 to 1200 yards. Looking at the edges to make sure they aren't washed out and have distinctive lines in contrast areas.

@Glassaholic

I would like nothing more than to learn about about what I an actually seeing versus scope design. If you don't mind can I PM you some more questions

 

[TheOE800]

I noticed more CA if I don’t get perfectly lined up behind some optics.

I’ve been able to induce CA in everything from March to TT to ZCO by having my eye/head off-axis/out of position whereas these scopes have no real observable CA when aligned properly.

 

[Eric32]

I wasn't trying to induce CA at all I properly line myself up center in the scope adjusted the diaopter to with the help of koshkin instruction that he puts out on his email blast.

I moved my head every with direction trying to eliminate it and the only success I had was with the razor that day

 

[Schw15]

Non- science but I honestly believe certain scopes just work better for certain people. Everyone's eyes are different. Me and my buddy we always have two different explanations on a scope and 100% disagree. To me razor gen 2 is horrible in every factor but I think that plays a huge role in it. Everyone is different

 

[Eric32]

Agreed and the search continues for another scope that doesn't weight 40+ Oz.

I am gonna try a USO here shortly see if that one works for me

 

[Schw15]

Agreed and the search continues for another scope that doesn't weight 40+ Oz.

I am gonna try a USO here shortly see if that one works for me

Try a bushnelle xrs3 I really like that scope

 

[Eric32]

I had the XRS2 to me eye it looks like a soda straw really far away from my eye it was super annoying I couldn't get over it no matter the range trips and dry fire practices I did

 

[Schw15]

I had the XRS2 to me eye it looks like a soda straw really far away from my eye it was super annoying I couldn't get over it no matter the range trips and dry fire practices I did

I had one and hated it as well the xrs3 is a totally different animal. I took a chance knowing I didn't like the xrs2 but it has worked out great.

 

[M77]

Get a Minox ZP5 5-25 , glass is fantastic and does not suffer from ANY CA.

 

[rothgyr]

Agreed and the search continues for another scope that doesn't weight 40+ Oz.

I am gonna try a USO here shortly see if that one works for me

Be aware that the eyebox on the USO FDN is kind of tight, and the eye relief has to be right on. I shot both my M7Xi and USO 25x at 100yds at paper last week and saw CA in the Steiner (first time I've actually seen it under 20x in that particular scope, I was surprised), and none in the USO.

To your comment about the XRS2 looking like a soda straw, that's how I feel about MK5s after looking through a USO. Short eye relief on the USO makes the sight picture massive.

 

[Eric32]

I saw your review on the tube. I am aware what I am getting into. Gun setup will be very important. But I also makes me think that with it being tight I will have to be repeatable and setup the same way everytime.

 

[Eric32]

Yea she is a heavy gal tho.

 

[TheOE800]

Heavy is in.

 

[Glassaholic]

During one of the vortex nation podcasts I heard a vortex optical engineer say “all scopes have CA to some degree”.

This is true, I've even seen CA in Tangent Theta; however, it takes a lot to induce it. Some scopes you just see it everyone, where others you don't see it until the conditions are just right.

Obviously some do better than others, but once you notice CA you are kind of forever different.

This is very true.

If the Razor looks best to your eye then you have your answer. They are great scopes.

I agree. Manufactures pay attention to how our eyes work and how we perceive the colors of the spectrum, some (mfr's) spend more time trying to figure out how to reduce the perception of CA, I think Vortex is one of these, out of all the budget scopes, the PST II handles CA the best (meaning I see less of it) than any other (budget scope) to my eyes, is it because it has a superior optical design, not necessarily, but I do believe Vortex optical engineers spend a lot of time minimizing this effect.

One other key point above is "to my eyes", we all see colors differently so naturally some scopes will be "better/worse" than others to our eyes. If you live in the desert where everything is always a shade of brown, you may never really notice much CA in normal shooting, but go into the mountains after a snow fall and you may begin to see it everywhere.

I have also observed different effects with CA in different atmospheric conditions so on day one you may not see much but on day two you may see more than you had noticed before.

Yes, some scopes handle CA better than others generally speaking, but sample variance and QC may play a bigger part with a scopes IQ than we realize.

For a good primer on CA, this article helps - https://photographylife.com/what-is-chromatic-aberration

 

[LeftyJason]

Is CA affected by astigmatism any?

 

[chevy_man]

I was shoot in the middle of a snow storm and NO CA seen by ME with the razor everything else has the purple on the edges.

I just don't get it. It's a mid tier scope yet to my eye has the best image and No CA.

Just trying to understand why that is.

I've had the exact opposite experience. Vortex gives me a headache and I can never get them really dialed in.
Leopold's all look amazing and have a broad range of usable adjustment.

Everyone has different eyes. They're also always changing because we get old and things don't work as well.

 

[Eric32]

Yea starting to see that.

 

[Skeptic1]

It also makes a difference if you are a fan boy favorite in the CA you see in certain brands.

 

[JakeM]

Get a pmii from the classifieds.

 

[Eric32]

I don't think it's that easy. I wish there was a guide or a test that shows which optical design goes with different eye types.

 

[st1650]

TT & ZCO are my next I guess. But that's on the list for sure. I regret selling the 5-25 PMII and my AT when I hit some unexpected money troubles. My entire A/C system crapped out on me in the dead of GA summer

I think I am gonna suck it up with the gen 2 razors and deal with the weight. I know I missed a 1C reticle razor. Not a big Christmas tree guy.

I played with the MK5 for 2 hrs making all the adjustments needed. And the vortex was still better.

I found a used Gen 2 with the 1C reticle for 1400$. Pretty happy with that purchase but I still prefer the glass on my Cronus.

 

[Eric32]

Why is that can you explain?

 

[st1650]

I had one and hated it as well the xrs3 is a totally different animal. I took a chance knowing I didn't like the xrs2 but it has worked out great.

XRS3 is on my short list for this summer but I wish it had a different reticle and illum.

 

[Schw15]

I found a used Gen 2 with the 1C reticle for 1400$. Pretty happy with that purchase but I still prefer the glass on my Cronus.

I agree the cronus is a great scope and awesome glass. I think it competes with much higher scopes

 

[Schw15]

XRS3 is on my short list for this summer but I wish it had a different reticle and illum.

I actually love the reticle and illumination I tend to never use even when I do have it so I'm ok with it.

 

[st1650]

Why is that can you explain?

I find the Cronus less touchy for eye position and a slightly more pop but optically they’re very similar. Cronus is lighter, Razor has obviously the better turrets. They’re both great in the 1500$ market.

 

[Eric32]

How does it handle high contrast. White plates on dark backgrounds

 

[Tbaxl]

@Eric32

Get a Minox ZP5. Under $2500 in the classifieds and the glass is routinely put in the same group as TT and ZCO

 

[Eric32]

I'll put it on the list

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I'll put it on the list

I really enjoy shooting my ZP5. It wasn't a big jump from the ZP5 to my TT in terms of glass.

 

[Glassaholic]

I really enjoy shooting my ZP5. It wasn't a big jump from the ZP5 to my TT in terms of glass.

I had a very difficult time discerning my ZP5 from my TT when I had them both, but Ilya said I had a very good copy of the ZP5 though I did buy another and it was just as good.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I had a very difficult time discerning my ZP5 from my TT when I had them both, but Ilya said I had a very good copy of the ZP5 though I did buy another and it was just as good.

I honestly didn't appreciate how good the glass was in my zp5 until I got a TT and had them both side by side. It gave me a new appreciation for the Minox's glass quality

 

[Eric32]

I'll put that on thr list for my back up rifle

 

[Elnino31]

Which m7xi?

Hopefully it comes back to you without the CA. I think they’re great scopes

 

[Eric32]

M7Xi 2.9-20 and M7Xi 4-28

I just hope they come back with replacements that are good.