Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

[Black-X]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Yeah, factory barreled w/Accutrigger.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

except the DBM, how is black X's rifle not a savage "off the shelf" rifle? thats a factory offered stock isnt it? the A5? that may not be the A5 it leaves the factory in but its still a factory offering. its a facory barrel and action as well isnt it? sitting in a factory option stock even?

shoot what you prefer, just dont talk shit on the others. like when guys rag on my bronco. and then they get stuck. and me and my winch just drive on by cause a ford cant equal a chevy or dodge or jeep. lol, that look on their faces is priceless.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I didn't know bottom metal and extra rounds in the mag helped accuracy. Maybe the added weight??

Jokes aside, Black-X said it best "As long as the rifle is reliable, accurate and consistent I can't imagine the results being different if it were the Savage or a R700, or an AI, or a Sako, or whatever."

 

[USMC_LB]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I have enjoyed this thread!

I quickly kept a tally of the posts as I read it this evening and the results are interesting...

those who stated..

they loved Savages (11)
they liked Savages (12)
meh (2)
they don't like Savages (5)
they hate Savages (3)

many have great accuracy (19)
they look ugly / feel cheap (17) **due mostly to factory stock
not alot of aftermarket stuff (15) **due to freq. factory changes
satisfaction from out-shooting higher priced rifles (13)
very DIY gunsmith friendly (11)
don't like the accu-trigger (7)
clunky/loose/shitty/gritty bolt (5)
Savage doesn't hold resale value (4)
don't like fit and finish (4)
Savage doesn't equal STATUS (4)
questionable durability (3)
Savage shoot better than they should (2)
wouldn't shoot for pinks against a Savage (2)
Savage makes too many changes (2) **which makes aftermarket vendors steer away from the company
ugly barrel nut (2)
ppl hate cheap stuff that out performs their expensive stuff (2)
Savage fan-boys hyping rifles into legend status (2)
too many incompatible parts (2)
smiths do not like working on them(2)
good customer service(2)
bad customer service (1)
Savages are durable (1)
like the accu-trigger (1)
dont like Savage logo on bolt(1)
Savages are only for hobbyists(1)
Savage thought of as inexpensive rifle(1)
expected a "new" rifle to have no problems (1)

I believe Savage could improve their product perception by doing a little fit and finish and improving their normal factory stock... even the Accu-stock "feels" cheap. I can't wait to test it out though.

I was surprised that more Savage owners did not tout the Accu-trigger... is that telling?...I dunno. We will see.

I just recently purchased a Savage FCP (.308) with the Accu-stock and their 24" 5R barrel that was fluted and threaded.

I am planning on making a thread about it for a review because I could not find alot of info about the Savage 5R barrel. Waiting on some glass at the moment then I will take it from 100m to 600m and report back.

LB

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I got beat by a shooter using a savage yesterday,

He was shooting a 6XC Savage I believe and beat me shooting my AW in 260.

Figured I would make the Savage fans happy.

What a great day, first time out competiting with a 260 for me since the FClass match I shot in 2001 with the Ghost Dancer. I shot two different loads of my own hand loads, which was a great learning experience, getting much needed practice doping the 260 in a switching head wind. so I call it a win win. Granted neither me or the Savage matched my score last time out with my 308 GAP Werewolf, but hey different day. You're only as good as your latest showing right. Although I have a feeling once I learn the 260 as good as I know my 308 my previous high score may fall.

So enjoy the win Savage men, lol

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black-X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not directed at you abut you didn't bother to read it, anyway.

Do you attribute your success to your Savage? As if somehow you wouldn't have done as well had you been shooting a Remington with the same tweaks as your Savage (which isn't an off-the-shelf Savage). </div></div>

Of course I read it and I answered your first question. I realize it wasn't directed towards me but you asked, "Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it." The other guy didn't post anything so I did just to show that a Savage can win against world-class shooters, that's all.

"Do you attribute your success to your Savage?" Yes and no. As long as the rifle is reliable, accurate and consistent I can't imagine the results being different if it were the Savage or a R700, or an AI, or a Sako, or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching a good pissing match but I'm not getting pissy about it.

</div></div>

You're exactly right, it can win as well as any other rifle in the hands of a capable shooter. Fact is most are more accurate than the shooter. Congratulations on your win!







I thought I'd point out about Savage being cheaper. Here's the plastic stock .308

MSRP: $776.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

Here's the SPS "tactical"

MSRP: $757.00
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

Here's the SPS Varmint

MSRP: $732

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx


Looks like the 700 is actually cheaper.

 

[jwpark]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Looks like the 700 is actually cheaper.

</div></div>

The Savage Arms 10-FPSR rifle has a threaded barrel and a thread protector which represents at least $120 worth of work from a gunsmith.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

And who pays MSRP?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black-X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not directed at you abut you didn't bother to read it, anyway.

Do you attribute your success to your Savage? As if somehow you wouldn't have done as well had you been shooting a Remington with the same tweaks as your Savage (which isn't an off-the-shelf Savage). </div></div>

Of course I read it and I answered your first question. I realize it wasn't directed towards me but you asked, "Let's see some documentation of you beating world-class shooters in a match. Match results are posted. Let's see it." The other guy didn't post anything so I did just to show that a Savage can win against world-class shooters, that's all.

"Do you attribute your success to your Savage?" Yes and no. As long as the rifle is reliable, accurate and consistent I can't imagine the results being different if it were the Savage or a R700, or an AI, or a Sako, or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching a good pissing match but I'm not getting pissy about it.

</div></div>

You're exactly right, it can win as well as any other rifle in the hands of a capable shooter. Fact is most are more accurate than the shooter. Congratulations on your win!







I thought I'd point out about Savage being cheaper. Here's the plastic stock .308

MSRP: $776.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

Here's the SPS "tactical"

MSRP: $757.00
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

Here's the SPS Varmint

MSRP: $732

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx


Looks like the 700 is actually cheaper.

</div></div>

Savage prices sure have gone up since the Accutrigger came out and their reputation began to improve. I'm a relative newbie to the sport, having been serious about it for only 3-4 years. I bought my accutrigger model 10fp from Walmart in 2003 or 2004 for $350 out the door.

Honestly, I can't think of any reason why the Savage doesn't "deserve" to be priced right there with a similar Remmy...but I have to imagine there are a lot of folks that would choose a Remmy over a Savage if they stand to save NO money buying the Savage.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

That road goes both ways. Nobody pays MSRP for Savage or Rem...but MSRP is certainly the best baseline.

Here's the non-thread model, comes with a dipped stock, that needs thrown away. I was giving benefit of the doubt by going with the cheapest LE savage.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10%20PRECISION%20CARBINE

MSRP: $880.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

The best apples-to-apples comparison with the 10FP-SR is the SPS Tactical AAC...both are threaded.

One would note the AAC's MSRP is a few bucks more than the FP-SR.

This is still arguing Ford v. Chevy...

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

$4.

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I love how people mention the factory savage stock sucks but yet very few people here ever keep the factory stock from ANY rifle they buy (barring AIs and Sakos of course) ...what does it matter if your Remmy factory stock is nicer than the savage's if the first thing most of us do is buy an aftermarket one? haha
And aftermarket support? Any time I wanted a part I've managed to find them. True, not all the big names carry everything you want, but 2 minutes on google and whatever my heart desires...I've found. And I'm about as good with computers as Tommy Callahan is at selling brake pads... (cool points to whoever knows that reference!)
The biggest thing to me is the ability to do the gunsmithing myself. I admit, I'm a cheap son-of-a-*****, so why should I pay a smith to do the work when I can do it myself..? So what does it matter if few gunsmiths will work on savages if you don't NEED them too. Any idiot can change a savage barrel...case in point, me! I once couldn't figure out how to get a spark plug wire off the plug! (did you know they aren't threaded on? They just pop off! haha)
All these points have been said numerous times. It always comes down to the shooter for real-world-applicable accuracy. And brand loyalty seems to be all it's about. I suppose if I could afford one, I'd probably have an AI too. So good for those people who worked for it.
Barring the pissing matches, it's been interesting reading. Although there are still a few things people say that I don't follow the reasoning. Once again, it mostly comes down to brand loyalty (nothing wrong with it!) Do I like savages? yes. Do I like GAP? The one I've had the privilege to shoot, yes. Do they both make hits on the same 12" gong? Yes. So, you like what you like, and I'll like my Savages!

 

[pawprint]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Regarding Savage, for those that don't care for Savage rifles, is this all rifles, or the 10 and 110? The Mod 12 seems to be "scoring" quite a name for the brand, the 12PLR, also gives the buyer a lot of gun for the money! I agree with posters that want to compare $ to $, with the mod 12 Savage rifles, I don't think any out of the box rifle $ for $ can touch it-again out of the box, not $1000s of custom work later. I think team Savage is winning all over the world with the mod 12-out of the box guns. Hard to argue with winning.

 

[teal325]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

The reason I don't particularly care for them is this:

For the price - the fit and finish isn't on par with other makers

I've yet to shoot a Savage that offered a substantial increase in some other area of gunnery to make up for the ergonomics of their stocks, fit and finish compared to other rifles close in price. While the Accutrigger is nice - I guess, I don't see it as something PHENOMINALLY better than a good M70 or M700 trigger that's been worked over a little.

Quite simply it's NOT a better mousetrap for me. Not saying it doesn't work but it's not demonstrably better (for me).

I do find it odd that will all this talk of .3 and .4 MOA Savages, the only one brave enough to hang a pic of a group has been Low Light - not exactly a Savage chest thumper.

 

[FALex]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do find it odd that will all this talk of .3 and .4 MOA Savages, the only one brave enough to hang a pic of a group has been Low Light - not exactly a Savage chest thumper. </div></div>

Well, I guess the next time I shoot a nice, tight group, I'll bring my camera so I can prove myself right?

For all you know, I'll punch a bunch of holes in the paper with my Bic pen and call it cool. Also, does it matter if LL or Your Name Here shoots the group? The group was shot with a Savage, was it not? The discussion is regarding rifles, not those driving. You're confusing the primary issue. Now, let me get back to poking the holes...stay tuned for my "pics".

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do find it odd that will all this talk of .3 and .4 MOA Savages, the only one brave enough to hang a pic of a group has been Low Light - not exactly a Savage chest thumper. </div></div>

5 shots @ 100yd with my factory-barreled 12FV .223

My marksmanship certainly isn't in Lowlight's time zone, but I don't consider that too bad given my lack of trigger time and the fact I was doing load development.

 

[teal325]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

There we go. Thanks.

Just me but IMO the invention of the internet and the keyboard has done more to make rifles accurate than any other advance in the history of the world...

If you get my drift.

 

[FALex]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

oh, I couldn't agree with you more, that's my point. So what if I post a picture? In this day and age, I can rev up my new picture-manipulation software and do whatever groups I need to "show" you. Now, that being said, LL's group appears to be much smaller than .4, but I can't get to those prior pages right now (don't know why?)...Anyhow, he probably did that at a distance far greater than my menial 100 yard group. Lastly, I could not do that consistently (wish I could), but it did give me a nice snap shot of what the rifle is capable of (and made me feel great!). And yes, I wish I had a 700 and a custom and a Red Ryder, but after my recent ventures, I can't afford the Ryder! For some reason, I would like to think we'd be on our honor, but then again, my naivety precedes me most times too! Happy chootin'!

ETA - I do have a 700, it's a .270 hunting rifle (would love to have an AAC-SD though). The bolt is much smoother than any of my Savages.

 

[AM9000]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

My stock Remington 700P bolt makes my friends stock 10FCP bolt feel like its broken.

The Savage is really sloppy with lots of play all the way through until lockup.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I agree with the "net-groups", but with that said, Team Savage is winning (and winning alot) with the out of the box mod 12. They are winning in F class, where scores are based on accuracy, reduced 1/2 Highpower targets. If any of the other mfgs. could they would. I think Savage has shown $ for $, most accurate out of the box rifles going-based on real shoots, those with targets with scores, judges, etc.

 

[Voyagertwelve]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I'm a convert, you'll never catch me badmouthing a Savage.

They are totally underrated in accuracy and selection.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You're exactly right, it can win as well as any other rifle in the hands of a capable shooter. Fact is most are more accurate than the shooter. Congratulations on your win!







I thought I'd point out about Savage being cheaper. Here's the plastic stock .308

MSRP: $776.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

Here's the SPS "tactical"

MSRP: $757.00
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

Here's the SPS Varmint

MSRP: $732

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx


Looks like the 700 is actually cheaper.

</div></div>

I think a better comparison would be on something like the 700 LTR and the 10PC. $999 gets you the Remington and $799 gets you the Savage. Of course they both go bang when you pull the trigger and be accurate with the edge going to the Savage, but to match the features on the Savage, you'll have to take your Remington to a gunsmith to bed the action, get it trued, new bolt knob and get bottom metal. So that's another....$400-500 MINIMUM and a couple of weeks while your smith has your rifle? All the while the Savage guy has been shooting and enjoying sub MOA accuracy from a rifle that was literally half the cost.

http://www.impactguns.com/remington-700-ltr-308-light-tactical-rifle-5739-047700257396.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/savage-model-1...1356186065.aspx

Since the Savage does have the plastic stock vs the Kevlar/fiberglass stock in the LTR, we can swap the LTR for a SPS at $599. But then you add all the other stuff up again and the Savage is still less expensive by at least $200 and there will be no question about which is more accurate.

http://www.impactguns.com/remington-sps-...7700842073.aspx

 

[bengates]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...and there will be no question about which is more accurate.

</div></div>

Really?!? None at all?

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

here is some photos of a few of my savage targets

another rifle

another

another

200 yards

another

any way you get the picture, and yes all measurements are center to center.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with the "net-groups", but with that said, Team Savage is winning (and winning alot) with the out of the box mod 12. They are winning in F class, where scores are based on accuracy, reduced 1/2 Highpower targets. If any of the other mfgs. could they would. I think Savage has shown $ for $, most accurate out of the box rifles going-based on real shoots, those with targets with scores, judges, etc. </div></div>

There is no substantial evidence to suggest they are the "Most accurate out of the box". Furthermore, do you really believe that Savage gives "TEAM SAVAGE" just a random, run-of-the-mill production model off the line, or do you think they stepped up their QC and gave them the best?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You're exactly right, it can win as well as any other rifle in the hands of a capable shooter. Fact is most are more accurate than the shooter. Congratulations on your win!







I thought I'd point out about Savage being cheaper. Here's the plastic stock .308

MSRP: $776.00
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR

Here's the SPS "tactical"

MSRP: $757.00
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

Here's the SPS Varmint

MSRP: $732

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-varmint.aspx


Looks like the 700 is actually cheaper.

</div></div>

I think a better comparison would be on something like the 700 LTR and the 10PC. $999 gets you the Remington and $799 gets you the Savage. Of course they both go bang when you pull the trigger and be accurate with the edge going to the Savage, but to match the features on the Savage, you'll have to take your Remington to a gunsmith to bed the action, get it trued, new bolt knob and get bottom metal. So that's another....$400-500 MINIMUM and a couple of weeks while your smith has your rifle? All the while the Savage guy has been shooting and enjoying sub MOA accuracy from a rifle that was literally half the cost.

http://www.impactguns.com/remington-700-ltr-308-light-tactical-rifle-5739-047700257396.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/savage-model-1...1356186065.aspx

Since the Savage does have the plastic stock vs the Kevlar/fiberglass stock in the LTR, we can swap the LTR for a SPS at $599. But then you add all the other stuff up again and the Savage is still less expensive by at least $200 and there will be no question about which is more accurate.

http://www.impactguns.com/remington-sps-...7700842073.aspx
</div></div>

I think you need to reread things and learn to do some math.

How is it $200 cheaper? How can you say there is "no question" about the accuracy? You're full of it. There are good and bad examples of both, but you can't say with any genuine numbers to back up such a retarded claim.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Here's one... I believe this one measures right about .32" center to center.

 

[Blackhawk95]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I built a 6.5x47 Lap off a savage single shot target action with a Krieger barrel and tossed the barrel nut. all bedded up nicely in a Manners T4 stock. I dont have any custom actions yet. But so far this is the most accurate Ive got.

Depending on winds it will normally print .5MOA 5 shot groups at 375 yards.

I will say this though, Im not a huge fan of the accu trigger even though the target version can be adjusted into the OZ. range. I would still preffer a Jewell trigger.

just my findings on the Savage i have.

Jerid

 

[3fingervic]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I'm a Savage guy, but the ergonomics of Savage's and all companies average stocks drive me crazy. To clarify, I'm not speaking of AI and Sako. Why have these companies not caught on to the vertical grip? I know they offer some, but IMO it should be standard. I find the "normal" stock grip to be really uncomfortable. Am I the only one? Savage lovers (likers) wouldn't be happier with an Accu-stock with a vertical grip? Remington guys, don't you wish the LTR had a stock design similar to the Manners T1? These companies have "tactical" rifles in stock designs from the civil war. I would like to buy a rifle that I'm not looking at as a barreled action. Rant over.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Here's another pic... 10 shots @ 600 yards. The 10 ring is 5" in diameter. Savage 10FP, 308, 175SMK @ ~2800fps

Notice 2 hits at 7 o'clock on the edge of the X ring. Those were consecutive shots. The 2nd one expoded the wooden "spindle" of the spotter, which was fantastic to watch at 25 power through my scope.

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There is no substantial evidence to suggest they are the "Most accurate out of the box". Furthermore, do you really believe that Savage gives "TEAM SAVAGE" just a random, run-of-the-mill production model off the line, or do you think they stepped up their QC and gave them the best? </div></div>

The savage shooters themselves stated that what would be the point in an advertising campaign showing they win matches with stock rifles if the rifles weren't what the average person could buy? It's not like NASCAR where the only thing their cars have in common with production cars is the name. They really do compete with the same rifles that you and I can buy. That being said, they're benchrest and target models, as evidenced by the price difference, are a step up from their bottom line hunting models.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Cherry picking one hot group from several and posting on the web to tout the accuracy of a rifle is rather pointless. I can cherry pick out a .1" group and brag about it if I wanted, but it shows nothing to the average that the rifle/load shoots. I'm not knocking Savage, i'm a Savage guy, but don't post up a single shot group from your rifle and try to pass that off as the norm for your rifle, or all rifles like yours.

If someone wants to knock your equipment, who cares. Are you really that self concious (spelling nazi chime in) of your equipment that you care what some random person, who probly doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, thinks about it?

This entire thread is full of rediculous, and is so udderly pointless that it's a shame that it got this far.

Branden

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Short-bus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cherry picking one hot group from several and posting on the web to tout the accuracy of a rifle is rather pointless. I can cherry pick out a .1" group and brag about it if I wanted, but it shows nothing to the average that the rifle/load shoots. I'm not knocking Savage, i'm a Savage guy, but don't post up a single shot group from your rifle and try to pass that off as the norm for your rifle, or all rifles like yours.

If someone wants to knock your equipment, who cares. Are you really that self concious (spelling nazi chime in) of your equipment that you care what some random person, who probly doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground, thinks about it?

This entire thread is full of rediculous, and is so udderly pointless that it's a shame that it got this far.

Branden </div></div>

I'll assume this is aimed at least somewhat, at me.

You're right, there is no possible way we can *prove*, beyond any reasonable doubt our Savage rifles shoot the groups we are posting, day in and day out. Someone else quipped that Savage advocates weren't showing pics, so I responded by posting a 5 shot group @ 100 yards with one given load, and a 10 shot group @ 600 yards with another, completely different load.

Guess you'll just have to take my word for it, dude. Don't know where you live, but I'd be glad to show you in person.

And by the way, the groups I posted are, in fact, the "norm" for my rifle and I.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with the "net-groups", but with that said, Team Savage is winning (and winning alot) with the out of the box mod 12. They are winning in F class, where scores are based on accuracy, reduced 1/2 Highpower targets. If any of the other mfgs. could they would. I think Savage has shown $ for $, most accurate out of the box rifles going-based on real shoots, those with targets with scores, judges, etc. </div></div>

There is no substantial evidence to suggest they are the "Most accurate out of the box". Furthermore, do you really believe that Savage gives "TEAM SAVAGE" just a random, run-of-the-mill production model off the line, or do you think they stepped up their QC and gave them the best? </div></div>
I have no way of knowing if they are lying or not, do you have some info as to their lack of honesty? I do know when you go to F class matches, you'll see a lot of Savage rifles doing really well, in the hands of people that are not "Team Savage". Regarding the evidence, I am only going by "out of the box" rifles at real matches, those with paper targets, score rings etc. If I am wrong, I'm wrong, please direct me to the evidence of such.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

really could care less what anyone thinks, and yes they are normal groups with my savage rifles not cherry picking.
In my job in the Army M24(rem 700) is my issue rifle as well as others. I personally will not own a rem 700, had bolt handles brake off, yes even on my M24, as well as safety failure.
In sniper school 1993 had a AD with safety on while closing the bolt on the kd range. take it for what its worth, last tour in Iraq I ran a M21 put the 24 away.
But all of you experts who may want tell me different go for it, and when your X-box call of duty disc gets ruined join the military and learn something.

 

[poison123]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fmsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really could care less what anyone thinks, and yes they are normal groups with my savage rifles not cherry picking.
In my job in the Army M24(rem 700) is my issue rifle as well as others. I personally will not own a rem 700, had bolt handles brake off, yes even on my M24, as well as safety failure.
In sniper school 1993 had a AD with safety on while closing the bolt on the kd range. take it for what its worth, last tour in Iraq I ran a M21 put the 24 away.
But all of you experts who may want tell me different go for it, and when your X-box call of duty disc gets ruined join the military and learn something.
</div></div>

Jesus I can't believe you guys are continuing this bullshit debate.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

something to pass the time....
and you must admit its kind of funny

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fmsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and when your X-box call of duty disc gets ruined join the military and learn something.
</div></div>

Now that is funny! ah haha But let's not get the thread off track. This is about the rifles, not the people.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think you need to reread things and learn to do some math.

How is it $200 cheaper? How can you say there is "no question" about the accuracy? You're full of it. There are good and bad examples of both, but you can't say with any genuine numbers to back up such a retarded claim.</div></div>

My math is on. $599+400=$999. $799=$799 999-799=200. When I measure groups, I use math to get an average. I hope your aim is better than your math.

maybe you need to go reread some things.

I haven't seen a SPS, bedded or not, that was more accurate than .85 MOA consistently. There is just too much flex in that Hogue stock to keep it consistent. Although there are a few that get tinkered with and shoot like crap, the accustock rifles have been incredibly accurate. Mine holds .5 MOA all day long...and when I say all day long, I'm referring to staying consistent at or under .5 MOA...not .5 is my best group. Since we all agree that the shooter has more to do with the accuracy of our rifles, maybe we'll never know....

I was not saying Savages are more accurate than any Remington regardless of how much gunsmithing is done, if that's what you're implying. If you REREAD my post, I didn't say the LTR would be less accurate. I tried to make it clear between the LTR and the SPS....but maybe I need to make separate posts when discussing multiple rifles for you. hahaha

I'm not saying Savages are the best rifle out there. What I am saying, and what many others are saying if you would read the posts without bias, is that Savage rifles are the most accurate off the shelf rifle - PERIOD. Team Savage is proving that for me. Put the extra work and money into Remingtons, Surgeons, Tikka, etc and you'll have one hella accurate rifle. For me, I don't like buying cars only to take them to a mechanic so they'll run properly.

I don't snap pics of my targets because I honestly don't care what a bunch of guys on the internet think of my shooting. My next few range trips I will though.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

If you can't look at the similar models and not realize the pricing...no way in hell can you suggest the Rem is $400 more. Damn, it's like I'm playing cards with my sisters kids or something.

 

[juliomorris]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

The Remington fanboys just can't the fact that a cheap savage will out shoot their more expensive rifle's. Remington should kept making the 788...

Yes remington does have more aftermarket components but Savage is catching up. Both have their good and bad points. I don't any Rem 700's anymore but I still have 4 788's.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

I don't like Savages because I got burnt on one, and it was my first centerfire bolt rifle. That was back in the mid-90s and I know they've had loads of improvements since then on their products. Still, I'd be pretty pissed at myself if I bought another one and it was as bad as the first one.

As a counterpoint, I used to shoot with a guy in NC who had a great shooting 308. He could hit consistently at 500, no problems at all.

 

[quickdraw17]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Much like ZL, I got burned on a Savage model 12 in .308 a number of years back. Action felt loose, and I really didn't like the accutrigger (though I suppose I could have changed that if wanted to). More importantly, it shot a very unimpressive 1.5-2 moa at best, even with handloads. I ended up selling it. A number of people since have told me that I just happened to a get a bad one and I should have sent it back. But what's done is done.

I did give Savage another chance though...bought a Mark II in 22 lr earlier this year, and holy crap does it shoot. I was extremely impressed with its accuracy right out of the box. So, despite my earlier bad experience, Savage has proven that it can make an exceptionally accurate firearm.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't look at the similar models and not realize the pricing...no way in hell can you suggest the Rem is $400 more. Damn, it's like I'm playing cards with my sisters kids or something. </div></div>

Your memory is as bad as your math.

The quote from Tombstone is "it's like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids or something."

Your reading comprehension is worse than both your math and memory.

I NEVER said the Rem is $400 more than the Savage.

Now I feel like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids or something.

Since you want to compare similar models, I'll let you find a Remington with Detachable magazine, tactical knob, and a bedding block (or not...it's up to you). If you can't find a Remington with those features or don't want to look, then add up the cost for the bottom metal, bedding (since you've said that it's needed on off the shelf rifles), and the bolt knob.

I'll let you price it out. I would price it out but previous experience shows that you would get confused...

Yet again to answer the OP's question, I don't like how Savage is constantly innovating to the point that the aftermarket supply is limited. It exists, but is limited. I have one sub MOA 10fp I picked up for $699 new that I can get stocks for and tons of aftermarket stuff without a problem. My 10PC I bought used with very few rounds through it for $525. I can't get aftermarket stocks but really don't need to with the accustock. As I've stated before, it's sub-MOA all day long. It's also my hunting rifle, so I don't need a Lowlight proof stock.

 

[Rifleman1]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

Hey guys, new member here! First of all I think this is a great forum and I know I will enjoy learning form everybody here. I love shooting, but the last few years, have just been too busy.
I have a new Savage 12F that I am getting ready to scope up for the range, and I hope it lives up to what everybody says about the Savage.
Now, in regards to this thread, my opinion is this. It doesn't matter what you shoot, if it get's you to the range, and the accuracy is acceptable to you, that is all the heck that matters!
It is rare that an economical rifle shoots as good as a Savage, and with the current economy as it is, I think we are lucky that they can make a rifle that even remotely competes with others that cost much more. So considering that Savage makes a rifle that truly competes with the more expensive brands, I think that is a rare thing for this day and age.
I love all guns and also have Remy's that I would never sell, but no matter how you look at it, Savage is a great bang for the buck!
I am looking forward to being a member here and getting to know you all!

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't look at the similar models and not realize the pricing...no way in hell can you suggest the Rem is $400 more. Damn, it's like I'm playing cards with my sisters kids or something. </div></div>

Your memory is as bad as your math.

The quote from Tombstone is "it's like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids or something."

Your reading comprehension is worse than both your math and memory.

I NEVER said the Rem is $400 more than the Savage.

Now I feel like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids or something.

Since you want to compare similar models, I'll let you find a Remington with Detachable magazine, tactical knob, and a bedding block (or not...it's up to you). If you can't find a Remington with those features or don't want to look, then add up the cost for the bottom metal, bedding (since you've said that it's needed on off the shelf rifles), and the bolt knob.

I'll let you price it out. I would price it out but previous experience shows that you would get confused...

Yet again to answer the OP's question, I don't like how Savage is constantly innovating to the point that the aftermarket supply is limited. It exists, but is limited. I have one sub MOA 10fp I picked up for $699 new that I can get stocks for and tons of aftermarket stuff without a problem. My 10PC I bought used with very few rounds through it for $525. I can't get aftermarket stocks but really don't need to with the accustock. As I've stated before, it's sub-MOA all day long. It's also my hunting rifle, so I don't need a Lowlight proof stock. </div></div>

Did you see quotation marks around anything? I don't think so...I don't have a brother. But I'm sure you knew that already, since you think you know everything else.

Already linked similar models above. That's all there is too it. Read it or don't, I could really care less. By the way, nobody cares about the shitty Savage DM. Basically what you're saying is "Remington doesn't make this model therefore Savage is cheaper".

Apples for apples, Savage and Remington are the same price.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Apples for apples, Savage and Remington are the same price. </div></div>

I know I said I was out.....so I lied.
I have shopped over hell and half of Georgia in the last week and no truer words have been spoken. I found myself asking several times this week,"Where the hell are all these affordable Savages I have heard so damn much about?" I will be purchasing a Stevens 200 in 223 and I assure you I will be brutal in my criitique of the thing. I will be purchasing it for $320 a barrgain to be sure but I have the understanding from the fanboys that it will whoop all the Remingtons I have owned. We shall see.

 

[Austincqc]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Did you see quotation marks around anything? I don't think so...I don't have a brother. But I'm sure you knew that already, since you think you know everything else.

Already linked similar models above. That's all there is too it. Read it or don't, I could really care less. By the way, nobody cares about the shitty Savage DM. Basically what you're saying is "Remington doesn't make this model therefore Savage is cheaper".

Apples for apples, Savage and Remington are the same price. </div></div>

I just got back from seeing an awesome DJ tonight and thought I'd get a good laugh before bed.

Tyler you're so negative and have horrible reading comprehension and misinterpret everything. You're worse than my girlfriend...

I think you really just need to get laid man.

OP - If you want a rifle that you'll want to customize later and spend a few extra hundred bucks and a few weeks after you get it to maximize it's potential and probably make it just as if not more accurate than the Savage, go with the Remington. If you want to buy a rifle that's really accurate out of the box, go with the Savage and use the cash you saved on glass and ammo and just go shooting.

I'm out. G'night everybody!

 

[FALex]

Re: Why don't you guys like Savage? Serious question.

just for everyone's edification, Savage stated, "The overwhelming majority of their (Team Savage's) awards have been won with bone-stock Savage rifles." A recent article put out by them stated, "Team Savage and their Model 12 target rifles have won so many long-range competitions (many over shooters with custom rifles costing thousands of dollars more than theirs) that they have lost count … Seriously."

Not to rub it in or anything, just for qualification and all that...