Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

[AMMOWASTER]

Is there any reason other than barrel life? Seems like 243 is hard to beat as a do it all round that has a ton of options off the shelf.

***edited to add***
The main purpose will be as a long range gun so I will probably be running the heavier bullets most of the time.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

answered your own question

 

[Gray]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Less powder/ brass doesn't grow as much as 243

 

[garandman]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I picked 6.5 Creed for its ballistics, and its slightly larger diameter. I'll be loading my own ammo, so 243 being "on the shelf" has no advantage for me. I wanted to reach 1,000 and I had numerous people tell me its a great round for that. Same ballistics as 300WM, but cheaper to shoot.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Why, Seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why, Seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time. </div></div>

How did you arrive at that logical decision? What were the reasons?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

The 243 case design is ugly, plus it has more capacity than required - especially considering the ~3100fps speed limit at most matches.

Personally, I think the 6mm and 6.5mm Super LR is the best (short action non magnum mousetrap, though it too probably has a little too much capacity in 6mm.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

So at the moment I dont shoot any matches. It may be in my future but not currently. I looked at the 6mm Remington as well but it just isnt common.

I edited the original post to state my intent of this gun. Mostly long range/target vs varmint or hunting. Dont know if that makes a difference or not.

 

[6brshooter]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Because the 243 is so last year, it doesn't have a cool name either. I have 4 1-8 twist 243s, they do everything the others do. I hear all this talk about case stretch, i push 105@3150 out of win brass and only get a whisker of brass. My 6.5 cm has more brass trimmed after each firing. I use lee case trimmers and it so easy to trim, deburr, and polish case nks every reload cycle. I even use a lee trimmer on my br rifle.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

How many firings are you getting on the 243 brass?

 

[FALex]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I am glad I saw this! I am in the process of trying to decide between 6mmXC, 6mmCM, or 6/6.5x47 Lapua. I am leaning on the XC for the barrel life and brass (can be formed out of 250 brass if need be). I know folks can get 3200+ out of their 6mmCM's, and there is a definite appeal to that too!

I know, I know, whatta' terrible problem to have!

 

[callen3615]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why, Seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time. </div></div>

How did you arrive at that logical decision? What were the reasons? </div></div>

I think Spock said it.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

The shoulder angle of the XC and Creedmore should make it easier on barrels, and way more efficient compared to 243, the brass is a moot point because XC and Creedmore can be made from 22-250, and because XC and Creedmore is shorter in brass length slinging long bullets and still being to feed from the mag is possible for a longer period, between the XC and Creedmore I would recommend the later.

 

[SSC]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I choose 243. Just seemed like there was no reason to deviate from a proven cartridge. Sure I can get near the same with others and maybe a bit better barrel life but I spin my own so that doesn't carry much weight.

always nice to have tons of brass options if you need them.

 

[6brshooter]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I don't anneal but i get 13-14 reloads on win brass. I find it kinda hard to believe that because of nk length/shoulder angle that negates barrel burning effects of 3300 fps. It would have to increase barrel life 1200 rds or so before i would switch calibers. I shoot bolt guns and IMHO the 243 feeds just a tick smoother then my 6.5cm.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why, Seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time. </div></div>

How did you arrive at that logical decision? What were the reasons? </div></div>

I think Spock said it. </div></div>

Who is Spock and what did he say?

 

[JWV]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

The variety of brass and dies is awesome for a 243. From cheap to expensive/high quality. Sure you can form xc from 22-250 but that is an extra step. I have heard 2000 rounds of excellent accuracy from the xc. Not to say the accuracy won't be good after 2k but it will likely be dropping off. 243 is definitely less. However, who doesn't like screaming dtacs at 3100 from a 243. Now that will make you a believer. On that note, I'm a sell out as I just ordered a Dasher barrel.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I just had a barrel spun for my AW. Was told no reason to do 6mm on a bolt gun go with the 243. 6mm was used so an AR 10 would run reliable.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Who is Spock and what did he say?</div></div>

well THAT ^^^ makes me feel old.....



i think the differences are justified depending on what you are using it for most of the time.

for just varmints, casual ocassional long range shooting and farting around, the "base model" .243. if thinking a serious match rifle, the differences in the others comes into play.

you can always go .243 now, shoot the hell out of it, then re caliber to one of the others when you decide if you are building a specific rifle for a specific type of match.

the needs of the many outweigh don't outweight the needs of the one.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why, Seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time. </div></div>

How did you arrive at that logical decision? What were the reasons? </div></div>
Well for one, the 6.5 creedmoor is kinda all the rage so when I heard about the 6 creed, thought to myself, I gotta have one, and you can push the 243 only so fast while burning more powder than the 6CM. I should be getting over 3300fps in my 6 CM while burning only 42.5grs of RE17, I doubt the 243 can match that. And the fact the 243 burns barrels faster, and the case is ugly!!

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So at the moment I dont shoot any matches. It may be in my future but not currently. I looked at the 6mm Remington as well but it just isnt common.

I edited the original post to state my intent of this gun. Mostly long range/target vs varmint or hunting. Dont know if that makes a difference or not. </div></div>

If you want the 6mmREM go for it, Im having mine rebarreled cuz the throat is long, neck too big and I cant push the 105s as fast as what the 6CM can do, the 6mmREM does have a nice long neck, but I want a modern cartridge so Im going with the 6CM, again. I spent enough on the dies, Im going to get my moneys worth out of them,

 

[garandman]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Not to hijack, buy why 6mmCreed vs. 6.5mmCreed? Either one better?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garandman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack, buy why 6mmCreed vs. 6.5mmCreed? Either one better? </div></div>

Why a Cummins Ram vs. A Ferrari F360 Modena?

The answer depends on your intentions.

A Berger 6mm 105 hybrid @ 3100+ will be flatter and have less recoil.

A Berger 6.5mm 140 hybrid @ 2800 will "smack" a target harder.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

A Berger 6mm 105 hybrid @ 3100+ will be flatter and have less recoil. Add another 200 plus to that, In this link youll see the XC topping out over 3300, pretty sure the 6Creed will outdo that.

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

jgorski,

if you actually think a 6mm creedmoor will outrun a 6mm Remington, you are absolutely delusional!

chuck

 

[Mike]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

if you actually think a 6mm creedmoor will outrun a 6mm Remington, you are absolutely delusional!

chuck</div></div>

And neither one could touch a 6 Crusader.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

if you actually think a 6mm creedmoor will outrun a 6mm Remington, you are absolutely delusional!

chuck</div></div>

And neither one could touch a 6 Crusader. </div></div>

And the pecker measuring contest begins....

Go to 6mmbr.com and read a lot and decide what's best for you. I went for 243win.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Not wishing to hijack the thread in another direction, but I see someone earlier mention the 6mm Super LR and 6.5 Super LR.

Been looking at the 6mm Super LR myself for when I shoot the bbl out on my .243.

Any users of the 6mm Super LR out there able to comment on it's usefulness, velocity/accuracy/ballistics compared to the .243Win?

Case and die availability?

Any info Very gratefully received!

Neil
apologies to the OP, but hey, it might be of interest to you...more options/more headaches!

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

The 6SLR is a slightly different version of the 6 Competition Match, there is a rather large thread on it on 6mmbr.com, with the PRS having a 3150 speed limit there really is no reason to argue over which cartridge can sling a pill at 3300.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paduan Learner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
apologies to the OP, but hey, it might be of interest to you...more options/more headaches! </div></div>

Not looking to form any brass. So no 6mmLR/crusader/AI etc.

Feel free to start another thread about those calibers though, they are pretty interesting.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6SLR is a slightly different version of the 6 Competition Match, there is a rather large thread on it on 6mmbr.com, with the PRS having a 3150 speed limit there really is no reason to argue over which cartridge can sling a pill at 3300. </div></div>

Who said I wanted it for PRS??

I asked for opinions of users.

RTFQ

N

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

if you actually think a 6mm creedmoor will outrun a 6mm Remington, you are absolutely delusional!

chuck </div></div>

OK, gimme the top velocities that you know of for both. Then Ill see if they add up to mine.

Dont know if you noticed or not but Ive got both the 6mmREM and Creedmoor..

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paduan Learner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 6SLR is a slightly different version of the 6 Competition Match, there is a rather large thread on it on 6mmbr.com, with the PRS having a 3150 speed limit there really is no reason to argue over which cartridge can sling a pill at 3300. </div></div>

Who said I wanted it for PRS??

I asked for opinions of users.

RTFQ

N </div></div>

Why dont you start your own thread.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Hey,

I was answering someone else!

Seems that with your colossal post count you don't need to learn anything else...

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I did RTFQ, I pointed you to another forum with a thread that is 17 pages long, the speed limit was directed at those argueing over which cartridge can sling a 6mm pill the fastest, one of them is a PRS shooter.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3783720.0

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paduan Learner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey,

I was answering someone else!

Seems that with your colossal post count you don't need to learn anything else... </div></div>

Really, we are calling out post counts? Sorry I dont measure up for you.

I asked a simple question and was looking for specific info on a few different calibers. You guys continue to jack my thread and it is not a huge deal but it is annoying.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMMOWASTER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there any reason other than barrel life? Seems like 243 is hard to beat as a do it all round that has a ton of options off the shelf.

***edited to add***
The main purpose will be as a long range gun so I will probably be running the heavier bullets most of the time. </div></div>

I havent read any other posts, but here is my answer.

I have owned both a 243 and 6xc in the past year. I shoot or shot 105g Berger Hybrids in both. I find the XC to be more forgiving when finding a load and more efficent, I also like the shorter case, you don't have to worry with mag issues and feeding has been stellar.

Both had Krieger barrels, my 243 went 3100fps with 42g of H4350 my xc is 3020fps with 39g of h-4350, i have shot much smaller groups at all distances with the XC. Barrel life is going to be similar with both I would expect, and neither that great.

I dont ever see myself messing with a 243 again, i am going to stick with the xc, creed or even lapua 47 case design.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

The 6mm Creedmoor is just a more efficient 243. It throws the same bullet at the same speeds with less powder then a 243. Barrel life will really depend on shooting schedule. The weekend paper puncher will see better results then a guy shooting a match with one.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?



I have owned both a 243 and 6xc in the past year. I shoot or shot 105g Berger Hybrids in both. I find the XC to be more forgiving when finding a load and more efficient, I also like the shorter case, you don't have to worry with mag issues and feeding has been stellar.

Both had Krieger barrels, my 243 went 3100fps with 42g of H4350 my xc is 3020fps with 39g of h-4350, i have shot much smaller groups at all distances with the XC. Barrel life is going to be similar with both I would expect, and neither that great.

I dont ever see myself messing with a 243 again, i am going to stick with the xc, creed or even lapua 47 case design.

[/quote]

Depending on barrel length, you can push the XC faster, not to mention with accuracy, more than 3300fps(tubes over 29"), might get the 243 up to 3200 with the same length barrel, same powder.

 

[223Rem]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Why do people weight so much into barrel life? Barrels are a dimishing return, period.

Everyone thinks they are saving on barrel life with going to a non standard cartridge, but it's the opposite.

For you to fireform say 500 cases of a non standard, you have expended a minimum of 2 pound of pound ($40), 500 primers ($10), 500 projectiles ($100), hours prepping the loads and um....500 rounds of your barrel's life.

From that perspective, the .243 Win is pretty cheap.

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

jgorski,

It is useless arguing this fact with you but the only way the 6 creedmoor will outrun a 243 or 6 Remington in same length barrels is if you want it to. you either push it to a much higher pressure or use a powder in the larger cases that is not ideal. that's a fact. case design only takes you so far and it doesn't take you THAT far! I have a 6xc, 6x250, and 243. I KNOW what they do in relation to one another.

chuck

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 223Rem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do people weight so much into barrel life? Barrels are a dimishing return, period.

Everyone thinks they are saving on barrel life with going to a non standard cartridge, but it's the opposite.

For you to fireform say 500 cases of a non standard, you have expended a minimum of 2 pound of pound ($40), 500 primers ($10), 500 projectiles ($100), hours prepping the loads and um....500 rounds of your barrel's life.

From that perspective, the .243 Win is pretty cheap. </div></div>


Your right actually burning out a barrel costs a bunch in bullets brass and powder, probably more than most realize plus if you shoot matches its even more. The bigger issue could be getting it done. Waiting 6 months on a barrel then another few on a smith could be problematic for some guys. I like to shoot and hate waiting on stuff.

Thank goodness for guys like bug holes and third generation stocking barrels and smiths working to cut wait time.

 

[FALex]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

okay, I need to revive this thread a bit...now I am back to agonizing...I thought I had this all sorted out: 6XC DONE!

Now, I have had two very well-known gun plumbers ask, "have you considered 6 Creedmoor?" Not knowing all of the nuances of these 6/6.5's, can you folks give me the "quick and dirty" of the 6 Creedmoor? What are the benefits of it over the XC.

The rifle will solely be paper and steel competitions.

Lastly, I know a few folks who have experienced issues with the 6.5CM brass and the primer pockets widening after about 4-5 reloads (and they weren't running them hot, just using Hornady's factory recipe). Does anyone know if this issue is present with the 6CM?

I know it's a lot to hash out, but I will not get many chances at getting a rifle like this (Big Horn action, Kreiger barrel, etc...), so I'd like to get it right the first time. Thanks for the time.

 

[garandman]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

....the only way the 6 creedmoor will outrun a 243 or 6 Remington in same length barrels is if you want it to. ...
</div></div>

No "dog" here, but that's true of every rifle / bullet.... just' sayin' ...

Some general rules - NOBODY has the "best" anything... get what ya like cuz ya like it....who cares that somebody bought something different....don't feel the need to justify your purchase unless yer pretty sure ya made a dumb purchase...blah, blah, blah

 

[KYS]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

It is useless arguing this fact with you but the only way the 6 creedmoor will outrun a 243 or 6 Remington in same length barrels is if you want it to. you either push it to a much higher pressure or use a powder in the larger cases that is not ideal. that's a fact. case design only takes you so far and it doesn't take you THAT far! I have a 6xc, 6x250, and 243. I KNOW what they do in relation to one another.

chuck </div></div>

The 6mm Creedmoor will do the same speeds a 243 will, with less powder.

I know because I have tried quite a few different loads. I own a 243, 6mm Creedmoor, 6XC, and a 6 Crusader. The differences are easy to spot.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

If it's a rifle you are going to shoot once in awhile for many many years and want to be able to always find reloading supplies then go for the 243win. It's one of the oldest, most popular, best performing 6mm cartridges in history with the widest selection of reloading supplies and info available... If you plan on jumping around, burning through barrels, spending lots of money then try the newest fad cartridge and see if you like it... Just my opinion

 

[JGorski]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jgorski,

It is useless arguing this fact with you but the only way the 6 creedmoor will outrun a 243 or 6 Remington in same length barrels is if you want it to. you either push it to a much higher pressure or use a powder in the larger cases that is not ideal. that's a fact. case design only takes you so far and it doesn't take you THAT far! I have a 6xc, 6x250, and 243. I KNOW what they do in relation to one another.

chuck </div></div>

I stand corrected, went back to the link I added in a previous reply and noted Bob Jensen & German Salazar were doing the XC test with a 31" barrel, that would add another 120fps over a 28" tube, give or take 10fps.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

My simplistic view for using the good ol' .243 for my needs/uses (recreational precision shooting for pride and maybe a few beers)...I can buy Lapua .243 brass, drop powder and shoot (repeat). I've quit trying to make things more complicated than they need. If the standard .243 isn't enough, I'll move up to the .260, if not enough I'll go to the 7WSM or 7mmRem Mag. If not enough I'll go to the 338LM. There is a right tool for the job.

That being said, if shooting for $$ you may wish to do all the extra steps and appreciate the added values of a wildcat.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

I like the old .243. Does everything I need it to do and is very accurate.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Why go 6mm creedmoor/XC over 243?

Something else to be said for the .243 is you can find it right now at stores. Most places I've been there is little to no .308 on the shelves because everyone wants the same case as what the military uses.
Still plenty of 30-06, .270 and .243 One small stack of .257 and 3 medium stacks of 25-06. .223 in all it's vast quantities hit the door first.