Why is everyone mad at PRS

[mahlv]

Well, as I learn, and buy new stuff, I have to sell the "old" stuff. Wanna play, gotta pay.
But, I can tell you, I have been at this just over a year, and still trying to find the Niche'.
People are quick to point out what I do wrong, not so much how to do it correctly.
Annnd, there is no one swapping winds calls with me, yet. Teams members do it amongst themselves.
But hey, their sand pit and their rules.
Not like I am going to displace any one's spot.
It's all good.

Clean a stage or two and you'll be hit up for wind calls .
Early on when I started chasing dreams, one of the "high and mighty" icon champions went on some podcast and whined and bitched about how he didn't get the best prize off the table because a vendor gave a rifle to a lower-half-of-the-field shooter, I was done with any contribution to the nrl/prs beyond my match fees. I happened to be in contact with one of the founders of that league, asked him about that incident, and response was essentially "meh".

 

[Rob01]

Clean a stage or two and you'll be hit up for wind calls .
Early on when I started chasing dreams, one of the "high and mighty" icon champions went on some podcast and whined and bitched about how he didn't get the best prize off the table because a vendor gave a rifle to a lower-half-of-the-field shooter, I was done with any contribution to the nrl/prs beyond my match fees. I happened to be in contact with one of the founders of that league, asked him about that incident, and response was essentially "meh".

Which one? PRS or NRL?

 

[Rob01]

Well, as I learn, and buy new stuff, I have to sell the "old" stuff. Wanna play, gotta pay.
But, I can tell you, I have been at this just over a year, and still trying to find the Niche'.
People are quick to point out what I do wrong, not so much how to do it correctly.
Annnd, there is no one swapping winds calls with me, yet. Teams members do it amongst themselves.
But hey, their sand pit and their rules.
Not like I am going to displace any one's spot.
It's all good.

Yup the buying and selling is part of the game. Been doing it for 19 years now and still buy and sell. Lol

And it’s not really ok to not help new shooters. Again not sure where you shot but it’s not like that everywhere.

 

[mahlv]

@Rob01 that particular deal was nrl. Mile High donated an AI rifle that went to a random participant of the match.

 

[Baron23]

View attachment 7759255

With their break action open OU?

 

[iceng]

I saw an AI rifle go as a random door prize once. I've also seen winners give their prize away instantly to new shooters.
I've also seen new shooters get pissy when they didn't get their money back by winning anything ft the prize pool. Forget the fact that they had 2 full days of "training" potential with top level shooters and hours of advice, Q&A time, etc..

 

[DocRDS]

Damn you guys get prizes? Crew I run with does it for fun/competition. Yeah as a youth I got some blue ribbons and medals. I also remember working my ass off for what they represent. (Ok i lied, I got a banana split the first time I won a race, but that was a deal I had with my mom--so technically I got a prize).

Also have a framed letter from my US Rep for making all-state. I was kinda a big deal lol. But I never won a prize you greedy bastards. I was there to kick ass and chew gum.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Prizes? The prize for the pros is not money or stuff, not that it hurts, but its the recognition.

When we trained horses we would go to a show, win a class or two and the ribbon went to the owner and the check stapled to it went to us. On a good night, we might get $50.00. Heck, that would not even pay the gas to pull the trailer to and from the show. of course, if we had owners horses in the trailer, they paid that. Still, Fifty bucks, even 30 years ago wasn’t much.

But, its wasn’t the money, it was the recognition. People seeing us with horses with blue ribbons hanging on their halter/bridal/stall door. Now, any trainer will tell you that Good trainers don’t make horses; Good Horses make trainers. But the customers didn’t know that or care, they only saw a winner and though the person involved could make their horse a winner too. Fashion’s Flirt brought more horses to our barn (not that there was that many) than anything or anyone else.

GOD, That horse loved to win and hated to loose.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Prizes? The prize for the pros is not money or stuff, not that it hurts, but its the recognition.

When we trained horses we would go to a show, win a class or two and the ribbon went to the owner and the check stapled to it went to us. On a good night, we might get $50.00. Heck, that would not even pay the gas to pull the trailer to and from the show. of course, if we had owners horses in the trailer, they paid that. Still, Fifty bucks, even 30 years ago wasn’t much.

But, its wasn’t the money, it was the recognition. People seeing us with horses with blue ribbons hanging on their halter/bridal/stall door. Now, any trainer will tell you that Good trainers don’t make horses; Good Horses make trainers. But the customers didn’t know that or care, they only saw a winner and though the person involved could make their horse a winner too. Fashion’s Flirt brought more horses to our barn (not that there was that many) than anything or anyone else.

GOD, That horse loved to win and hated to loose.

Before you ask, I’m going to answer. How does this pertain? Many pros in most sports either work for a team or a sponsor(s). In this case, a really nice rifle won’t make you a winner (it helps but it won’t guarantee results) but a good athlete can make a quality rifle look good or scope or bipod or whatever piece of equipment that the marketer is paying the pro to promote. See the analogy? Yep, in the bigger matches the money sure does help, but I suspect it won’t pay all o f the bills.

 

[Oldloser]

That sure as hell don't look like no AI boss!

The Cadet shot that thing like a boss last weekend.

 

[jsel10]

I been wanting to get involved with PRS so I asked a friend who competes his opinion. In his view it has become to commercialized. He also said in the last 10 years it’s has become a rich man’s sport much like golf. His point being you can buy a significant amount of accuracy. Meaning that someone who has a for instance, a off the shelf target rifle such as a RPR or A Savage 110 precision rifle. Will never be able to compete with someone who can put 15k in a rig. Skill level being the same. Unfortunately it’s not attracting new shooters. He also commented that most people were rude to new guys wanting to learn the sport.

I have to disagree with this. I think if you look at Matt Alwines results with the very savage 110 precision rifle you mentioned along with Phil velayos results with his Tikka project prove that skilled marksman can be competitive with TRUE production equipment.

 

[Rob01]

And where are you guys shooting that they are rude to new shooters? Please give states or better yet ranges please. Hear it a lot with no specifics.

 

[Lightning8]

I shot the MPA 2 day match at Cool Acres in Swainsboro GA last weekend. Everyone was great to me as a new PRS shooter. I could get any advice I wanted (when I was not on the line). Learned a lot about shooting stages, equipment, reloading, etc. I will be at every event I can attend. I shot a hand-me-down used custom barreled action in 6XC in a KRG Bravo stock with Burris XTRII 5-25 MRAD scope, Burris bipod, and a used Gamechanger bag (and did not miss a shot due to equipment - all me). A competent setup but certainly not high dollar. Had a great time.

 

[Rob01]

After posting what I did above I get this in a PM from a member I will not mention their screen name:

"What good does telling you states and ranges do?
You can see where I am from.
The ranges aren't A/H's.
The shooters are.
Posting it will just start another pissing match."

To which I responded:

"It does good by shining a light on a problem and not just keeping it a secret. If a range gets a rep for that shit and people stop going then maybe they will change when their stream of money stops.

And just because you live one place doesn’t mean that’s where you shoot. I had shot all over the country while living in CT. Knowing ranges can also let others who have been treated like that know they aren’t alone. And the ranges do have control over their shooters as the MD can make it known that won’t be tolerated and can help fix the problem.

Just trying to make it better so others don’t have to deal with what you did."

So hopefully that answers the question if anyone else had it from my post above. Treating new shooters like shit is wrong. You want to cover it up then that it continues is on you. Shine the light and get it to stop. That is something that actually "grows the sport" to copy a widely overused key phrase.

 

[DocRDS]

My XP was at a range that is now closed around Dallas. I 'll probably catch a ton of shit, but whatever, I'm moving.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

And where are you guys shooting that they are rude to new shooters? Please give states or better yet ranges please. Hear it a lot with no specifics.

Best, Nicest, Accommodating, Tolerant but Rude? Some of the Nicest folks I. Have ever been around were at Prince Memorial in Forrest, Louisiana, and the folks at the NRL match at Altus in Baker, Florida.

Now, folks, I have been a competitive shooter for a long time. But not in Precision Rifle. So, I cranked up and shot a match at Prince. I am used to shooting under the clock. However on that day, I was acting like a totally bumbling idiot. Never put anyone in harms way but the rest was really bad. People around me did their best to help, encouraged, nicest folks I have ever been around at a shooting match. (And the IHMSA matches I have shot down the years have been the epitome of courtesy and friendship)

NRL .22 series at Altus. I wanted to watch for a few minutes. Looked like fun but also not easy. (Nothing worthwhile is ever really easy). The folks surrounded me, offered me firearms to shoot, gave me offers to shoot stages, right in the middle of the match. I was overwhelmed. (With kindness and friendship)

So, its a hard sport, especially for a 73 year old, but the folks are really nice and really inviting.

 

[Lowlight]

Nice has never been the issue, especially at the moment, most people are generally nice.

It's all the things you DON'T see or the things that happen that you don't realize they are doing which has an effect.

The question becomes bigger when you become a points threat, or a prize table threat then the poor sportsmanship shows it's face.

There are dozen of things that can be done and most people never realize it is happening, that why the insiders have a dim view of a lot of things this group is doing

There are two sets of rules, and unless you go up against them, you'll never notice.

 

[A.Huggy]

I want to know how much of a match fee goes to the PRS.

It's concerning that the same venue will host an "Open Range Day" for $35 but a PRS regional match there costs $90 or more. It doesn't seem like the PRS match is more difficult or expensive to host. Hopefully I'm wrong, I'm not an MD.

 

[Long Range 338]

Why didn't I buy the ATX?!?

 

[Mormegil87]

I want to know how much of a match fee goes to the PRS.

It's concerning that the same venue will host an "Open Range Day" for $35 but a PRS regional match there costs $90 or more. It doesn't seem like the PRS match is more difficult or expensive to host. Hopefully I'm wrong, I'm not an MD.

If I remember correctly it's $2-3 per shooter.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

A couple of years ago Texas Precision Matches hosted The Best in Texas Match (PRS) and the NRL Finale. Both were well attended. It’s a shame if the promotions are forcing MDs to pick one or the other.

Its not the "promotions" Its PRS and Shannon Kay. I have heard from a number of MD's who are going through this shit.

Shannon is the worst thing to ever happen to PRS and his selfishness and greed is resulting in less matches and opportunities to shoot. On top of that he does little to nothing to support the local MD's and only cares about getting his nut (the rake) from the match fees.

Competition and more leagues is good for EVERYONE. We should be focused on growing the sport getting more kids and new shooters into it. Without them, this sport dies. That is where the focus and money should go, not trying to rub the egos of the same 10 shooters every year.

Most of us just want more matches... PRS, NRL, RTC, Outlaw whatever.....we like to shoot. Our friends who shoot don't care what league they are shooting, any match is better than a day at home.

Its not the NRL calling MD"s and telling them they can't do both.

Its not the NRL calling the Grand Junction Mayor and telling them Cameo can't support both leagues.

Its not the NRL who tries to schedule a big event on the same day of a competing league in order to hurt the other. There are enough weekends in the year for everyone to get their 2 days in.

It wasn't NRL who created a bullshit production division, Lets their sponsors break rules so they can win and they arbitrarily changes the limits so two of their biggest sponsors (GAP & Kahles) can have production class guns even though they are 99% as effective as open custom guns. Maybe everyone remembers when they let a certain unnamed person shoot a custom RPR that you couldn't even buy win production class. Rules are only for the plebs.

There is one main problem in this sport, and it is Shannon. People need to start speaking up and calling them out for their bullshit.

This is a small community and I am sure everyone will see this and put 2 and 2 together. Stop being pussies and call them out.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Walking the table is the root cause of most of the bullshit

Get rid of it and watch 95% of the drama dissipate

Money and Trophies to Top shooters.

Prize tables randomly raffled off, with giving the RO's the same opportunity as the shooters (If not more weight). Cool one off prizes to people shooting their first match or the cheapest/worst gun. Get the new people excited and hooked.

More lower quality and newer shooters have the chance to pick up gear or certs they can use. RO's who donate their time and money can walk away with something nice to.

More gear will end up in shooters hands and not just flipped here on PX.

 

[bassmaster07]

View attachment 7759255

Yeah that crap stupid. Been there and owned one of those too. That is until I saw a guy carried off a trap range with a 12 gauge circle through his boot! Lucky guy was playing a shooting game and standing on grass and not the concrete shooting pad. Had he been in concrete he would not have had a foot to walk on.

It takes only a moment! Be safe always.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Stay off the internet and just go shoot. Everyone has ideas about how others should run their organization but ideas are easy. Execution is everything. Variety is the spice of life and seeing Gucci kit at matches is all that matters to me.

I remember hearing a podcast where someone was shooting down the idea of a,b,c class and I knew he was out of touch. Just let organizations compete and best ones win, that’s what Capitalism is all about.

Its hard to go shoot when one league actively stops another league from having matches. Instead of a MD having 2 or 3 matches a month, how he can only have 1 due to conflicts.

There are only so many Venues. The infrastructure for a match is incredibly expensive and it takes a whole lot of 1 day match fees to pay for all that steel, tablets, insurance,ect.

There are only so many MD's, and not all are good. A good MD is the MOST VALUABLE ASSET this sport has. No one has a bigger impact. We should be supporting them anyway we can and if they want to host different matches then it should be encouraged. A tide lifts all ships.

You guys aren't fucking listening. People aren't bitching about X vs Z fanboys. They are bitching that X is trying to Kill Z which means less events for ALL of us. Name one industry where a monopoly is good for anyone but those in charge?

Most people don't give a shit what league or affiliation they are shooting, they just want to shoot. If there is 50% less matches in a region, how does that help the sport? And 99% of the problem is Shannon and PRS. The rest of the squabbles are bush league.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

And where are you guys shooting that they are rude to new shooters? Please give states or better yet ranges please. Hear it a lot with no specifics.

I could give you some big names that i have witnessed as being terrible squad mates. Not helping new shooters, only worrying about themselves, hell wouldn't even help pick up shooters brass despite everyone doing it for them. As soon as they get done, walk to next stage instead of waiting for rest of squad, backup ROing or helping to keep score. Not willing to give new shooters any advice or help on wind calls.

People that have their own youtube channels and put out a persona of wanting to help people.

Yea, more like helping to get themselves more money from sponsors and views.

On the other hand the MD's and shooters in this region will bend over backwards to help newer shooters out. You got a grouch here or there but everyone is not only friendly, but willing to help out or lend gear. It tends to be the Big fish in little ponds who think they are important because 200 people in this nation know their name.

 

[Krob95]

I could give you some big names that i have witnessed as being terrible squad mates. Not helping new shooters, only worrying about themselves, hell wouldn't even help pick up shooters brass despite everyone doing it for them. As soon as they get done, walk to next stage instead of waiting for rest of squad, backup ROing or helping to keep score. Not willing to give new shooters any advice or help on wind calls.

People that have their own youtube channels and put out a persona of wanting to help people.

Yea, more like helping to get themselves more money from sponsors and views.

Call them fuckers out.

 

[Rob01]

I could give you some big names that i have witnessed as being terrible squad mates. Not helping new shooters, only worrying about themselves, hell wouldn't even help pick up shooters brass despite everyone doing it for them. As soon as they get done, walk to next stage instead of waiting for rest of squad, backup ROing or helping to keep score. Not willing to give new shooters any advice or help on wind calls.

People that have their own youtube channels and put out a persona of wanting to help people.

Yea, more like helping to get themselves more money from sponsors and views.

On the other hand the MD's and shooters in this region will bend over backwards to help newer shooters out. You got a grouch here or there but everyone is not only friendly, but willing to help out or lend gear.

Sounds like you know everything and got it all sorted out so drop some names if you like but was more wanting to hear from people who posted about specific incidents they were a part of. What region you speaking of where you shoot matches?

 

[LV Precision]

Call them fuckers out.

Totally agree. Enough with the pussy-footing around, just name some names and then they can be corrected (non-violently of course).

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Sounds like you know everything and got it all sorted out so drop some names if you like but was more wanting to hear from people who posted about specific incidents they were a part of. What region you speaking of where you shoot matches?

Like I said its a small community and I don't need to get blacklisted especially if there is only 1 league going forward. NW region, Cali SW, RM region.

 

[Rob01]

Like I said its a small community and I don't need to get blacklisted especially if there is only 1 league going forward. NW region, Cali SW, RM region.

After multiple posts ranting about the owner of the PRS now you are worried about being blacklisted? Lol

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

After multiple posts ranting about the owner of the PRS now you are worried about being blacklisted? Lol

The poor squadmates aren't the issue, its one league trying to kill the other.

One group I will have to shoot with based on location, other is on other side of country. Not hard to understand the difference.

 

[Long Range 338]

This is a small community and I am sure everyone will see this and put 2 and 2 together. Stop being pussies and call them out.

Come on bud, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel! The clarity is refreshing.

I'm very remote and have only done club matches. A couple of times there have been some "Pro Shooters" that squad up and do very well. It's not that they are bad guys, they just don't care to take the time to mentor or make others feel welcome. These guys spend more time together and of course have a certain amount of brotherhood they share.

On the flip side I've had the MD come shoot with newer shooters (as I said, small club matches) and offer their kit and do some mentoring. What a difference! As Frank says, this is best training you can get.

 

[DocRDS]

I had a terrible XP with the NTSA here in dallas at a pistol match and when I posted about it, everyone was"No that didn't happen". Yet it did happen. RO giving me crap about resetting while the rest of the squad sat on their ass, entire squad moved to the next stage while I was resetting (alone) and being new, I had no idea where to go. Packed up my shit and went to a practice range.

I'm gettin too old for this shit.

 

[sachsmart]

I been wanting to get involved with PRS so I asked a friend who competes his opinion. In his view it has become to commercialized. He also said in the last 10 years it’s has become a rich man’s sport much like golf. His point being you can buy a significant amount of accuracy. Meaning that someone who has a for instance, a off the shelf target rifle such as a RPR or A Savage 110 precision rifle. Will never be able to compete with someone who can put 15k in a rig. Skill level being the same. Unfortunately it’s not attracting new shooters. He also commented that most people were rude to new guys wanting to learn the sport.

I have found everything quite the opposite. My first season was with an RPR and while I did not win anything, I came in top of the middle pack. Another RPR shooter was top 20 in the regionals. Some modifications, gear & handloading is necessary but that's just part of the sport. Every shooter I met went out of their way to help, with gear, shooting advice and detailed reloading data.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I have found everything quite the opposite. My first season was with an RPR and while I did not win anything, I came in top of the middle pack. Another RPR shooter was top 20 in the regionals. Some modifications, gear & handloading is necessary but that's just part of the sport. Every shooter I met went out of their way to help, with gear, shooting advice and detailed reloading data.

I tend to agree with your thoughts sachsmart. Folks that think this is an arms race are just using it as an excuse

I shoot an RPR with roughly 2000+ rounds through it. Checking accuracy against my (Long saved for, sold a bunch of stuff for and also at the same time had to take a mandatory retirement account withdrawal which added up to be able to purchase) my MPA. I find that on a good day, when I do my part, the difference between the two rifles is roughly 0.10 to 0.15 inches difference in group size at 100 yards. And, the MPA gets its ammo loaded on its own dedicated single stage press. The RPR still gets its ammo loaded on the Dillion 550 with weighted charges.

That’s just under .300 for the MPA and roughly .395 for the RPR. Best groups for both. Shot in front of witnesses and the paper that the groups were recorded is in my shop.

Further in, on January 17, 2019, I shot this three shot group with my RPR at 300 meters. 6.5 Creedmoor, 44 grains Superformance, CCI 200 Primer in Plain old Hornady brass.

If you can’t hit targets with a RPR that can shoot this well, a ten million dollar rifle shooting radar guided bullets ain’t gonna do you any better. .

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I tend to agree with your thoughts sachsmart. Folks that think this is an arms race are just using it as an excuse

I shoot an RPR with roughly 2000+ rounds through it. Checking accuracy against my (Long saved for, sold a bunch of stuff for and also at the same time had to take a mandatory retirement account withdrawal which added up to be able to purchase) my MPA. I find that on a good day, when I do my part, the difference between the two rifles is roughly 0.10 to 0.15 inches difference in group size at 100 yards. And, the MPA gets its ammo loaded on its own dedicated single stage press. The RPR still gets its ammo loaded on the Dillion 550 with weighted charges.

That’s just under .300 for the MPA and roughly .395 for the RPR. Best groups for both. Shot in front of witnesses and the paper that the groups were recorded is in my shop.

Further in, on January 17, 2019, I shot this three shot group with my RPR at 300 meters. 6.5 Creedmoor, 44 grains Superformance, CCI 200 Primer in Plain old Hornady brass.

If you can’t hit targets with a RPR that can shoot this well, a ten million dollar rifle shooting radar guided bullets ain’t gonna do you any better. .


View attachment 7762843

You don't see any of the top open shooters shooting a RPR or other cheap gun. They are all shooting customs.......wonder why that is?

 

[Feniks Technologies]

You don't see any of the top open shooters shooting a RPR or other cheap gun. They are all shooting customs.......wonder why that is?

The answer is simply options and ergonomics. If you’re going to get the chassis/trigger/barrel you want, it’s not much more expensive to pick up a custom action than to strip down a 700.

Same reason very few AI’s being run at the top. If the entire rifle isn’t perfect for your preferences, doesn’t make sense.


Almost no modern production rifle shoots bad enough to drop someone out of the top pack.

 

[Mike Casselton]

There is nothing wrong with outlaw games, but the contention is that there is no 'sport' without a governing body. And outlaw games were brought up as a counter point to a 'sport.' You can't have a National Hide and Seek Champion without a National Hide and Seek Association...

There is an association.

They're just really hard to find...

 

[Mike Casselton]

I don't think every match should have the same exact environmental conditions that are perfectly groomed like K&M or Altus. Each match should bring it's own unique challenges, whether its in a remote location, heavy on wind, sweltering heat, etc. That's part of the challenge.

If we're using an analogy of another sport, the NFL doesn't enforce uniformity of playing conditions at all. Green Bay has an exposed stadium subject to horrible weather, whereas the LA Rams and Cardinals get to play home games in perfect conditions inside a stadium. Other teams have to play in crap stadiums with terrible amenities, while other teams get better practice fields, better stadiums, and more support. However, at the end of the day the winner of the Super Bowl has demonstrated the best ability to win across every condition and team they play.

T.........it's unrealistic to ask people to think...... ^^^^^^Sorry, couldn't resist that

Or, they bought a QB...

 

[Caymanboy]

You don't see any of the top open shooters shooting a RPR or other cheap gun. They are all shooting customs.......wonder why that is?

I started just under a year ago, and shot an RPR 6.5, learned the ropes with it, didn't finish last with it, then had a 6.5 Custom done, still not last, getting better, and, yes, there is a difference. Both in function and accuracy.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You don't see any of the top open shooters shooting a RPR or other cheap gun. They are all shooting customs.......wonder why that is?

Found out a long time ago, shooting sports live and die on professional shooters, shooting sponsors stuff. (As in most other equipment related sports.). The sponsors build whatever their pros want and expect us to jump all over the product because the ”cool kids” use it.

So to answer your question it is probably because they are shooting the firearms they are sponsored to shoot. However, do note that Doug Koenig is shooting the sponsored RPR with decent success. Ruger built and is offering a custom shop RPR apparently to assist Doug.

The reality, if you are depending on equipment to make your living, nothing is too expensive. And yes, even a few thousandths better accuracy might make the difference between five thousand and twenty thousand dollars.

Good point though.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

You don't see any of the top open shooters shooting a RPR or other cheap gun. They are all shooting customs.......wonder why that is?

As @Wiillk says, Doug Koenig is actually shooting an RPR, as are a few other less well known members of Team Ruger.

As for most of the others, the gun is only part of what goes into the hobby.

When you add up the cost of everything that goes into being competitive at these sorts of matches, especially at a high level, the cost of a custom rifle won't be your biggest expense. The top shooters you're likely referring to often shoot one or two matches per month, including 4 or more 2-day matches during a year. So you have to consider match fees, travel cost, match ammo, practice ammo (some guys were shooting 500-1000 rounds of 223 per month in practice prior to COVID), barrel replacement cost, and all of the extra gear that goes into the hobby.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

As @Wiillk says, Doug Koenig is actually shooting an RPR, as are a few other less well known members of Team Ruger.

As for most of the others, the gun is only part of what goes into the hobby.

When you add up the cost of everything that goes into being competitive at these sorts of matches, especially at a high level, the cost of a custom rifle won't be your biggest expense. The top shooters you're likely referring to often shoot one or two matches per month, including 4 or more 2-day matches during a year. So you have to consider match fees, travel cost, match ammo, practice ammo (some guys were shooting 500-1000 rounds of 223 per month in practice prior to COVID), barrel replacement cost, and all of the extra gear that goes into the hobby.

How many 2 Day NRL/PRS matches has Keoing won with his Ruger? How many has Horner won? Being permanent mid pack and paid to shoot? They are winning the special olympics. Guys shooting open with zero sponsors, not getting paid to practice/shoot and probably a whole let less experience in competitive shooting are whooping their asses every match.

I know what its costs to shoot, travel, compete........because I actually pay for it myself. No one is sponsoring me or helping with costs. That is why I buy the gear I buy, because I know when i drop a point, its ME and not my equipment. That doubt doesn't linger around.

You are still missing the point. If they could win with these guns, then Ruger or Sig or Beretta would peel off some of the MILLIONS they spend a year in advertising and pay a Millard, Zane, King, Vibbert, ect to shoot a cucked rifle. They all have been trying to gain market share in this segment and I can't think of a better advertisement than having someone win a National Title with a cheap $1500 gun against a field of $5K setups. Do you really think they would turn down 25-50-100k+ Per year to shoot one of those productions guns knowing they could win? Or maybe, just maybe, they know and the companies know that they are not competitive. That would sell WAY more rifles and have a much greater ROI than giving Shannon 50K a year to have your name on a banner. Why isn't it happening? Why did PRS break their own rules to let a guy with production with a gun no normal person could even buy? Maybe it was because that gun had more of the custom features and expensive components that cannot consistently be made into a gun that costs $1500 or 2K or whatever.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Found out a long time ago, shooting sports live and die on professional shooters, shooting sponsors stuff. (As in most other equipment related sports.). The sponsors build whatever their pros want and expect us to jump all over the product because the ”cool kids” use it.

So to answer your question it is probably because they are shooting the firearms they are sponsored to shoot. However, do note that Doug Koenig is shooting the sponsored RPR with decent success. Ruger built and is offering a custom shop RPR apparently to assist Doug.

The reality, if you are depending on equipment to make your living, nothing is too expensive. And yes, even a few thousandths better accuracy might make the difference between five thousand and twenty thousand dollars.

Good point though.

I hear what your saying but it doesn't make sense.

Is defiance paying Millard $50K to shoot their action? Is MDT paying him $25K to shoot their chassis? I bet leupold is paying him some money shoot their optics but a $2K scope is closer in quality and features to a $4K scope than a $2K gun is to a $5K gun.

Why have non of the top shooters started shooting guns from companies who spend more in advertising in a year than these companies have total revenue? They will pay a Horner or Keoing.........and the results are piss poor considering they are probably getting paid more than anyone else in this sport to shoot. . Add the AG cup in there and that is ALOT of money at stake for most of these shooters, even sponsored. So why have none of them switched over to shoot these production guns? The money is there.

Or maybe they know their scores will drop into irrelevance and the money will dry up because they won't be able to hold up their end of the agreement.

Keoing and Horner are both established proffesional shooters who are world champs in other disciplines. They know what it takes to win. Its also nice not having to have a real job. If they can't win with these prod guns, who can?

This shit is not hard to understand.

People who say there is not a gear race either don't compete or are so poor they need to make excuses why they can't afford good shit, while placing in the rear. Telling themselves that gives them an out.

 

[Snuby642]

Shit like this ^^^^^^^^ guy is the problem for a lot of folks.

 

[mkollman74]

So what's stopping that MD from hosting a match that is unaffiliated? If they believe that they can put out a superior product, then nothing is preventing them from doing so. Post it on Practiscore, market it through Instagram, and people will sign up (and if they don't, then perhaps it wasn't attractive enough).

If the PRS believes they have a superior product, why would they do what was described?

 

[LV Precision]

If the PRS believes they have a superior product, why would they do what was described?

This makes no sense. What they are doing is working, as evidenced by well-attended matches.

 

[mkollman74]

This makes no sense. What they are doing is working, as evidenced by well-attended matches.

My point is that if their product is so obviously superior, they wouldn’t need to force MDs into exclusive relationships. The matches being well attended doesn’t really mean much if they are actively squelching what they view as competition. Sounds to me like they don’t have a lot of confidence in their product/model.

 

[hlee]

This makes no sense. What they are doing is working, as evidenced by well-attended matches.

The point is that if the PRS product is as good as believed, there is no reason for them to strong arm MDs into picking their matches over others. If they are that good, anti-competitive practices are not necessary.

Define “well attended.” Texas Precision Matches holds “local” 1 day matches (not sanctioned by any org) every month and fills their 80 slots- with a wait list- every month. Before they started capping attendance at 80- 8x10 man squads- they were regularly drawing 100+. This while competing matches are being held on the same days, easily drivable from their range. And, those (unsanctioned) matches are thriving too.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Shit like this ^^^^^^^^ guy is the problem for a lot of folks.

Some people can't handle the truth.