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Why is the AI AXMC shooting this bad.
- Thread starter wolfy
- Start date
I had a similar issue with my rig. The scope rail was moving. Not enough to wiggle but I discovered it during dry fire. Every time I dropped the firing pin the sight picture moved. I pulled the rings and sure as shit it was loose enough to shift. Bedded the rail and used new screws.
VooDoo
VooDoo
Normally I blame shooter. But that’s pretty bad. So, likely some other issue.
*However* bipods only hop when you drive the rifle improperly. And shooters who use blocks and other such stuff are usually the ones who have hoping bipods. You’re also likely keeping your shoulder very stiff. So, instead of absorbing recoil, you are deflecting it back into the rifle. This causes the hop.
Once you get to the bottom of the rifle issue, I strongly suggest you find a reputable instructor and fix your bipod hop/recoil management issue.
*However* bipods only hop when you drive the rifle improperly. And shooters who use blocks and other such stuff are usually the ones who have hoping bipods. You’re also likely keeping your shoulder very stiff. So, instead of absorbing recoil, you are deflecting it back into the rifle. This causes the hop.
Once you get to the bottom of the rifle issue, I strongly suggest you find a reputable instructor and fix your bipod hop/recoil management issue.
All this speculation goes away if you just
tighten every screw and bolt on the rifle no matter how small
take a video of you shooting a few rounds showing trigger finger
And a few of videos from different angles of you prone on the ground or bench etc
if you dont do that it’s all speculation and non fact based opinion.
it’s the same thing professional instruction will do day 1
check gear
Check fundamentals
tighten every screw and bolt on the rifle no matter how small
take a video of you shooting a few rounds showing trigger finger
And a few of videos from different angles of you prone on the ground or bench etc
if you dont do that it’s all speculation and non fact based opinion.
it’s the same thing professional instruction will do day 1
check gear
Check fundamentals
I hit a 1.3moa plate are mile on my 3rd shot with a prototype rifle and factory ammo.
Bipods don’t hop.
I feel like we just skimmed right over this post......
It means the same as "45 ACP will kill a man no matter where it hits"
Figured it was trolling the troll... If serious I may stop using the internet
It happens when the charge inside of the projectile, AKA the thing that makes the projectile reach supersonic speeds after passing 50m, fails to ignite. This usually occurs when the ammunition is assembled in a different hemisphere from where it’s fired.
One basic fix that hasn’t been mentioned is to clean, really clean, the barrel. I’ve had rifles that were one hole guns that started doing what you’re describing. After checking all the things mentioned in this thread, with no improvement in group size, cleaning the barrel fixed the problem.
I would suggest Sweet’s 7.62 bore cleaner and some nylon bore brushes. Soak it and let it sit for 20-30 minutes. When you run another patch through it I would bet you you will see blue or purple coloring. Keep cleaning it and letting it soak until you don’t see any more blue on the patches.
I would suggest Sweet’s 7.62 bore cleaner and some nylon bore brushes. Soak it and let it sit for 20-30 minutes. When you run another patch through it I would bet you you will see blue or purple coloring. Keep cleaning it and letting it soak until you don’t see any more blue on the patches.
It’s a term used when you shoot one group that’s 1/4 MOA at 500 yards....while nobody is watching.....take a few pics of it.....post it everywhere.....then shoot with others a few days later at 100 and realize your 500 yard group was a fluke and you still suck at shooting
You then say the bullet needs to “go to sleep”
Which in essence means it’s got a wobble coming out of the barrel (like an arrow from a bow) and takes the bullet a few hundred yards to stabilize.
Those who believe this will claim there rifle shoots better groups at 300 yards than it does at 100 yards etc
It makes about as much sense as shooting a 338 LM at 50 yards
i'm not as high speed as most.
But if its a new rifle may take a few rounds to scrub in the barrel or also if you just cleaned the rifle, it usually takes few rounds to start lining up the shots. Also, your using different weight ammo which will have different Velocites, looks like your shooting Winchester, Hornady and Fiocci. Check your crown on your muzzle and see if its been damaged would be another thing to check.
Just my 2 cents, hope you get it figured and also nice rifle!
P.S- You might want to upgrade your weight bench, looking a little rusty
I'm eating a late lunch at my desk so will throw my opinion in the pile hoping that we get some closure/answers to this riddle after they take the rifle back out over the weekend.
The 50m groups he posted in the opening of this thread are not 2 or 3 moa.
They would be more like 5 to 6 moa considering the short distance.
The shooting ability of the OP is being questioned by some but based on his stated experience with rifles plus allowing 2 other experienced shooters to fire the rifle, I am taking shooter input errors off the table.
My opinion is that the muzzle device is not the issue or we might see some elongated holes on the target plus the groups would be more random shape with less sign of stringing on either axis.
My opinion is that there is no way in hell bipod hop or how the bipod is loaded could make a good gun/load shoot that bad at 50m. You could shoot an otherwise good rifle off a pile of coil springs and dead puppies and it would still not shoot that bad.
My opinion is that even if the action was unbonded from the chassis, it would still not shoot that bad at 50m.
My opinion is that even a heavily fouled barrel would not shoot that bad at 50m if everything else was in order.
Having had very similar issues a few years ago with a newly built customer rifle, I would encourage the OP to:
1: Swap a different optic onto the rifle and reshoot.
Super simple to do and it takes that variable immediately out of play. It's either going to make 100% difference or zero difference. NightForce
is one of my Go To optics and I trust them totally. Stupid stuff happens even with the best manufacturers sometimes.
2: Check the barrel to receiver interface regardless of torque applied. Stupid stuff happens even with the best manufacturers sometimes.
Accuracy International makes impeccable rifles and components but no one is mistake proof.
3: Check the scope base to receiver interface. *I highly doubt this is the issue. If it was loose enough to allow those groups at 50m, you would be able to physically wiggle and detect the issue with bare hands.
Will wait for discovery of culprit to be revealed after the rifle goes back out......
./
The 50m groups he posted in the opening of this thread are not 2 or 3 moa.
They would be more like 5 to 6 moa considering the short distance.
The shooting ability of the OP is being questioned by some but based on his stated experience with rifles plus allowing 2 other experienced shooters to fire the rifle, I am taking shooter input errors off the table.
My opinion is that the muzzle device is not the issue or we might see some elongated holes on the target plus the groups would be more random shape with less sign of stringing on either axis.
My opinion is that there is no way in hell bipod hop or how the bipod is loaded could make a good gun/load shoot that bad at 50m. You could shoot an otherwise good rifle off a pile of coil springs and dead puppies and it would still not shoot that bad.
My opinion is that even if the action was unbonded from the chassis, it would still not shoot that bad at 50m.
My opinion is that even a heavily fouled barrel would not shoot that bad at 50m if everything else was in order.
Having had very similar issues a few years ago with a newly built customer rifle, I would encourage the OP to:
1: Swap a different optic onto the rifle and reshoot.
Super simple to do and it takes that variable immediately out of play. It's either going to make 100% difference or zero difference. NightForce
is one of my Go To optics and I trust them totally. Stupid stuff happens even with the best manufacturers sometimes.
2: Check the barrel to receiver interface regardless of torque applied. Stupid stuff happens even with the best manufacturers sometimes.
Accuracy International makes impeccable rifles and components but no one is mistake proof.
3: Check the scope base to receiver interface. *I highly doubt this is the issue. If it was loose enough to allow those groups at 50m, you would be able to physically wiggle and detect the issue with bare hands.
Will wait for discovery of culprit to be revealed after the rifle goes back out......
./
Well, yes.....but then you don't get to feel superior and beat the crap out of a guy looking for some help.
From every communication here or private you have impressed as a very good man, Terry.
It’s a term used when you shoot one group that’s 1/4 MOA at 500 yards....while nobody is watching.....take a few pics of it.....post it everywhere.....then shoot with others a few days later at 100 and realize your 500 yard group was a fluke and you still suck at shooting
You then say the bullet needs to “go to sleep”
Which in essence means it’s got a wobble coming out of the barrel (like an arrow from a bow) and takes the bullet a few hundred yards to stabilize.
Those who believe this will claim there rifle shoots better groups at 300 yards than it does at 100 yards etc
It makes about as much sense as shooting a 338 LM at 50 yards
Wobbling arrows?
Like ones being shot from an improperly tuned bow?
It a AI .. so not the rifle
Multiple shooters had the same problem so not shooter... come on man 50 yards with a AI no way any shooter can be that bad
Must be scope or rings or like someone else posted extremely fouled barrel
Multiple shooters had the same problem so not shooter... come on man 50 yards with a AI no way any shooter can be that bad
Must be scope or rings or like someone else posted extremely fouled barrel
It is when you read posts like these and it is suddenly 3 hours later...
On a more serious note...
I have the exact same rifle...even the color. I shot an AI AT for a few years before buying it. Shot 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor cartridges. I was pretty good. Could hit 4" gongs at 500 yards most of the time.
I bought the AXMC in 338 LM and the first 5 times I shot it, my groups at 100 yards were TERRIBLE. Not as bad as the OPs but in comparison to the groups out of my AT, they sucked. After the third time, I actually brought the AT with me and shot it. Shot it well. I bought this rifle from another member here. It was unfired. All I could think was HOLY SHIT....I got a lemon.
I posted a similar thread here and was given the same advice that @THEIS suggested. I really did not appreciate being told I was probably flinching. Well I had my wife video me. I was prone and she sat on the top of an adjacent bench and videoed me shooting it.....I was flinching. Sometimes I was slapping the trigger and sometimes I would move just enough to allow the butt to move which gave me the vertical stringing that I see with your groups. The issue was that my flinch manifested itself into different errors that made the groups appear very bad. It would have been easier to diagnose if my method of flinching was due to making the same error repetitively. In my case there were a few errors that the flinch would cause and they were random.
After I FOCUSED and shot the rifle a few times, I solved the issue and can now shoot it as well if not better than the AT.
Moral---it generally is an absence of fundamentals
YMMV
I have the exact same rifle...even the color. I shot an AI AT for a few years before buying it. Shot 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor cartridges. I was pretty good. Could hit 4" gongs at 500 yards most of the time.
I bought the AXMC in 338 LM and the first 5 times I shot it, my groups at 100 yards were TERRIBLE. Not as bad as the OPs but in comparison to the groups out of my AT, they sucked. After the third time, I actually brought the AT with me and shot it. Shot it well. I bought this rifle from another member here. It was unfired. All I could think was HOLY SHIT....I got a lemon.
I posted a similar thread here and was given the same advice that @THEIS suggested. I really did not appreciate being told I was probably flinching. Well I had my wife video me. I was prone and she sat on the top of an adjacent bench and videoed me shooting it.....I was flinching. Sometimes I was slapping the trigger and sometimes I would move just enough to allow the butt to move which gave me the vertical stringing that I see with your groups. The issue was that my flinch manifested itself into different errors that made the groups appear very bad. It would have been easier to diagnose if my method of flinching was due to making the same error repetitively. In my case there were a few errors that the flinch would cause and they were random.
After I FOCUSED and shot the rifle a few times, I solved the issue and can now shoot it as well if not better than the AT.
Moral---it generally is an absence of fundamentals
YMMV
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I just picked up an AI AX from the PX here on this forum. When I took it out I noticed that I was chasing a good cheek weld to eyebox ratio on my scope. I was shooting very much like your “groupings”. I swapped out the 1” rings for 1.5” mount and could not believe what a difference it made for me. My shooting fundamentals started to fall in line and cleaned up and tightened my grouping. From the picture it looks as if your rings are not giving you much clearance either. But if you have done everything else to troubleshoot your issue you might want to raise your scope.
Try to take a video of you shooting the rifle. Its not the rifle, unless the barrel was installed wrong. I would have someone else shoot it first. Also, Just because the screws are tightened to spec on your mount doesnt mean you did them evenly and it isnt moving.
I'm kinda late to the game on this one, but what color is your axmc? Large groups like that are common in all colors except elite sand I hear. 
The AXMC308 i purchased back in 2017 was the biggest LEMON I've ever owned. Wouldn't hold 2" @ 100m and after alot of frustrating troubleshooting i discovered a big ding on the crown (hidden by the muzzle brake).
The Aus AI dealer promised a new replacement barrel and in the meantime had this barrel re-crowned. It still didn't shoot that great after re-crowning, confirmed by the Dealer.
During the 5 month wait for the new UK barrel I discovered the rifle would not extract live rounds. Also one of the 6 locking lugs was wearing (polished like a mirror) whilst the others were still black. Less than 200rnds total fired. Vidoes and pictures forwarded to the Dealer.
The replacement barrel from the UK finally arrived, i unboxed it to discover...
I informed the Aus Dealer, returned the rifle for a full refund. Shit happens...
To the OP, I'd suggest looking over the rifle very closely. But it could also be your fundamentals as others have suggested.
Now, my current AX338 is the best shooting rifle I've owned and consistently shoots 1/2MOA at 100m. So I'm still an AI fanboy.
Again, shit happens, no company is immune from fuck ups. It's how they deal with it, is what matters.
So much for "can't be the rifle" and "must be the shooter"
Did they give you any explanation for how these flaws got past QA and shipped? Yes, shit happens but its QA's job to catch it before it gets out the door, IMO.
What are you fucking kidding me...there is no resolution to the OPs issue. It could be anything at this point.
If QA caught everything, then there would be a company with a perfect track record. What kind of logic is that? NO company is beyond putting out a bad product. NONE.....end of story
You need to actually write a book and tell us how its done...I'm sure AI and all the other manufacturers out there will be all ears.
After quick checks on easy things like torque in the usual spots and such, the shooter should always be the next focus when trouble shooting.
Sure, it’s not always the shooter, but most of the time it is. Same principle as assuming all guns are loaded no matter what. It’s the best practice for the best outcome in the end.
As I and others have said, these groups are far too large to be shooter error only. But this is a rare example.
And every company has a few duds get pas their QC.
Hi,
There may be something wrong with some part of the gun or scope BUT that does not dissolve the shooter issues that are clearly present..
1. Tripling down on all bipods hop equates to pure lack of fundamentals.
2. Those groups were with Winchester ballistic tip ammunition equates to shitty ammunition compounding poor fundamentals. (Post #8)
3. How many posts did it take before he mentioned "others have gotten same results"??
4. In 1 reply he says the rifle has 60 rounds through it, in another reply he says he has no info on rounds yet?? (Post # 17 and #20 respectively)
5. His "good shooting" was hitting a 7in gong once out of 20 shots at 500m...missing by over 1.5 feet even after adjusting for the prior miss. (Post #55)
So extrapolate missing a 7" gong 19 times by over 1.5 feet at 500m down to his 50m target and you get his shooting error groups sizes to be pretty close.
Sincerely,
Theis
There may be something wrong with some part of the gun or scope BUT that does not dissolve the shooter issues that are clearly present..
1. Tripling down on all bipods hop equates to pure lack of fundamentals.
2. Those groups were with Winchester ballistic tip ammunition equates to shitty ammunition compounding poor fundamentals. (Post #8)
3. How many posts did it take before he mentioned "others have gotten same results"??
4. In 1 reply he says the rifle has 60 rounds through it, in another reply he says he has no info on rounds yet?? (Post # 17 and #20 respectively)
5. His "good shooting" was hitting a 7in gong once out of 20 shots at 500m...missing by over 1.5 feet even after adjusting for the prior miss. (Post #55)
So extrapolate missing a 7" gong 19 times by over 1.5 feet at 500m down to his 50m target and you get his shooting error groups sizes to be pretty close.
Sincerely,
Theis
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Oh FFS....climb down off of your soap box.
The guy comes on and asks for help/opinions. Immediately gets "it must be the shooter, after all this is an AI so it can't be the gun" which is almost a direct quote from above. Then somebody else comes on with pics of....oh, yes...an AI that shipped with flaws...well, two actually. Never did I say that AI's were generally flawed, are subject to any chronic issues at all, or that AI somehow have insufficient quality control. I did NOT say anything of the sort.
And yes, stuff does get out the door at any manf activity....and yes, its QA's job to catch those (every fucking one of them) and anybody in quality control profession will tell you that EVERY shipped flaw is a QA failure at some level and will never say "oh, but everybody has flaws that get out of the door" as any sort of justification. In QA, that is definitely NOT the accepted operative attitude. If you work in QA, please let me know the product so I can avoid it.
And no, Nik...I'm not writing a book but my career has been in program management of high tech products so yes, I do know something about QA in a manf environment that is much more challenging than rifles.
I have no idea the source of the OPs problems. Perhaps its his shooting, but perhaps its the gun which seems to be an offensive idea to some.
Have a great day.
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And just the throw some mud in the water, do not mistake the differences between QA and QC...
It’s when you’re a hooker and I shoot you with a tranq dart from my van then drag you in after you go night night.
Who makes those barrels for AI? I know the win tac here are Bartlein. My AI is LW. Neither brand I’ve seen the amount of tool marks your barrel shows.
Just curious as the maker in this case
Maybe the collective intelligence of the Hide has finally risen to the level of just ignoring it?
I agree with a lot of this. I have two AXMCs and shoot them in 338 NM, 338 LM, 6.5 CM, and I’ve been waiting on a 300 NM barrel now since November. I think I’m an AI fan, but...
When I bought the 6.5 barrel I bought a .308 bolt body to go with it. When I went to switch out the firing pin assembly from one of the magnums, it would go in, but it wouldn’t rotate 180 degrees to lock in (in fact it wouldn’t rotate at all. Close comparison of the new bolt body to the big magnum bolt revealed that they never machined the .308 bolt for the channels that allow the locking lugs on the firing pin assembly clearance to rotate. These were high-demand items and by the time I discovered it they were out of stock at both Mile High and EO. I contacted AINA, got an RMA and shipping label, and two days after they received it I got a tracking number for the new .308 bolt body they were sending to replace it. I was relieved they had stock on hand instead of having to wait. There was no explanation of what what they found wrong, but I didn’t push the matter because I already knew. Bottom line, no matter who it is, crap happens.
Hi,
Do not think that is entirely true.
Unless I am mistaken; I am pretty sure Sassen Engineering supplies barrels for AI UK also.
Sincerely,
Theis
I became convinced that it was the AI...shooter has no issues.
I took mine out today and shot a 5" 5 shot group @ 100 yards....now what??
Please help me...
How do you know ?
Hi,
Because the little barrel manufacturing birdie talks to me
Sincerely,
Theis
Bullshit.
I used to tell the classes I taught at Hammelburg that the longest shot I ever made was over 5km away.
