Why is this considered a "pistol", and not an NFA, SBR?

[Smcarroll]

Yes, and making or transfer of a NFA firearm without the approval of the BATFE is a federal criminal offense, even in Wyoming.

Yes it is. Pay attention everyone. Do not make federally illegal firearms. Obey your government.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If the gov can turn a blind eye to the hippy stoners in California and Colorado overriding federal law why can't they do the same for Wyoming and Montana? Ohh I forgot, guns are evil, but baking your brain away is alright.

 

[tylerw02]

What is all this talk about a "registered pistol lower". I can find no law that says pistols must be registered with the ATF nor in my state.

From my research, you can use a receiver (sold as "other" on the 4473 with no record of having been a rifle at any time) or a complete AR pistol, sold as such on the 4473.

Can somebody please direct me to federal or MO state laws currently requiring AR pistols to be registered? Thank you.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

What is all this talk about a "registered pistol lower". I can find no law that says pistols must be registered with the ATF nor in my state.

From my research, you can use a receiver (sold as "other" on the 4473 with no record of having been a rifle at any time) or a complete AR pistol, sold as such on the 4473.

Can somebody please direct me to federal or MO state laws currently requiring AR pistols to be registered? Thank you.

You are correct, I apologize for the confusion when I used the word "registered" earlier in this convo. What I personally was referring to was how its annotated on the 4473 just as you mentioned and described above.

 

[KYbulldog]

Handled one today…I'd say it would fit most people shouldered and other than being non adjustable LOP wise I though it was pretty sturdy as a stock…oops I mean "brace"
I love things like this! Because it Hi-Lights the complete INSANENESS of the Bureaucratic doublethink! The duck dynasty cat in the video makes and excellent point further illustrating how the FED disregards the 2A, stating that the BATF "can change their mind at anytime, and have before…" The FED's can make anyone an instant felon, give you no due process, and make you spend your life savings battling bogus charges. But it takes PEOPLE with guns willing to violate OATHs to do it.

 

[Wannashootit]

.But it takes PEOPLE with guns willing to violate OATHs to do it.

Whenever I get into an argument with an anti-gunner, and explain the 2A has NOTHING to do with "hunting", and everything to do with the right of the citizenry to protect themselves against a tyrannical government- they inevitably argue "So, you think you could REALLY fight the US Military if it came to it???"

To which I respond, Absolutely, because if our Federal Government ever got out of control, I'm confident the military would lay down their arms and not fight....or honor THEIR oath to uphold the Constitution and fight on the right side of history. Liberals just don't have a fucking clue...

 

[Smcarroll]

Whenever I get into an argument with an anti-gunner, and explain the 2A has NOTHING to do with "hunting", and everything to do with the right of the citizenry to protect themselves against a tyrannical government- they inevitably argue "So, you think you could REALLY fight the US Military if it came to it???"

To which I respond, Absolutely, because if our Federal Government ever got out of control, I'm confident the military would lay down their arms and not fight....or honor THEIR oath to uphold the Constitution and fight on the right side of history. Liberals just don't have a fucking clue...

If they knew shit they wouldn't be stinking liberals.

 

[KYbulldog]

Careful…Everybody knows the Constitution is not politics, but you add "l-b---ls and c-ns----t-v-s" to the discussion and you'll get a month vacation.

 

[jakhamr81]

I believe the BATF approved use if the brace as it was described to be used by the manufacturer. Using it in any manner other than what was approved by the BATF would likely be viewd as a violation. This is one if those rare cases when the government is allowing people to be responsible and regulate themselves. Sort if like owning a motorcycle that can do 150mph even though that is well over any legal speed limit. It is the owner's responsibility to know and obey the laws.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I believe the BATF approved use if the brace as it was described to be used by the manufacturer. Using it in any manner other than what was approved by the BATF would likely be viewd as a violation.

This is an INCORRECT statement. The ATF has issued a letter stating exactly the opposite. Placing the brace on your shoulder does not constitute a violation.

 

[hotbrass]

I believe the BATF approved use if the brace as it was described to be used by the manufacturer. Using it in any manner other than what was approved by the BATF would likely be viewd as a violation. This is one if those rare cases when the government is allowing people to be responsible and regulate themselves. Sort if like owning a motorcycle that can do 150mph even though that is well over any legal speed limit. It is the owner's responsibility to know and obey the laws.

Bwahahahaha!

No, they still dont trust us. It is legal and you can use the arm support any way you want. Put it to your shoulder or strap it to your arm, leg or whatever, however you want to shoot it.

 

[Smcarroll]

Bwahahahaha!

No, they still dont trust us. It is legal and you can use the arm support any way you want. Put it to your shoulder or strap it to your arm, leg or whatever, however you want to shoot it.

If I ever get one for my pap m85 I am strapping it to my leg and taking pictures of me shooting it.

 

[Smcarroll]

Bwahahahaha!

No, they still dont trust us. It is legal and you can use the arm support any way you want. Put it to your shoulder or strap it to your arm, leg or whatever, however you want to shoot it.

If I ever get one for my pap m85 I am strapping it to my leg and taking pictures of me shooting it.

 

[bm11]

I must say, that the man who invented it and got it approved was a genius. As good as a SBR? No. 1000x better than shooting it as a pistol? Yes.

 

[Smcarroll]

I must say, that the man who invented it and got it approved was a genius. As good as a SBR? No. 1000x better than shooting it as a pistol? Yes.

Thank sig sauer. They threw money and lawyers at it.

 

[jakhamr81]

This is an INCORRECT statement. The ATF has issued a letter stating exactly the opposite. Placing the brace on your shoulder does not constitute a violation.

I stand corrected. I guess I should not be surprised that the federal government doesn't make any sense. Thanks for sharing the letter.

 

[LRRPF52]

I figure the more people have these, the closer we can get to getting rid of several of the provisions of NFA 1934, mainly SBR's and SBS's.

There is no equal playing ground when it comes to NFA laws, and the Sig Brace spotlights this idiocy more than anything else, handguns aside.

I can own any handgun with detachable magazine, but not an SBR. Why? Arbitrary BS NFA 1934 violation of the 2A under FDR.

I can own a rifle with a 16" barrel, but not a shotgun with a 17 3/4" barrel. Why? Arbitrary BS NFA 1934 violation of the 2A under FDR.

I can own an AR15 pistol with a Sig Brace and as short of a barrel as I want, but I can't build one of my childhood dream guns in the form of an XM177E2 with an 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" fake moderator. Why?

That is why I like the Sig Brace. And it will have zero influence on crime.

 

[hotbrass]

I figure the more people have these, the closer we can get to getting rid of several of the provisions of NFA 1934, mainly SBR's and SBS's.

There is no equal playing ground when it comes to NFA laws, and the Sig Brace spotlights this idiocy more than anything else, handguns aside.

I can own any handgun with detachable magazine, but not an SBR. Why? Arbitrary BS NFA 1934 violation of the 2A under FDR.

I can own a rifle with a 16" barrel, but not a shotgun with a 17 3/4" barrel. Why? Arbitrary BS NFA 1934 violation of the 2A under FDR.

I can own an AR15 pistol with a Sig Brace and as short of a barrel as I want, but I can't build one of my childhood dream guns in the form of an XM177E2 with an 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" fake moderator. Why?

That is why I like the Sig Brace. And it will have zero influence on crime.

What the hell?

Line 1 keep dreaming.

Line 2 is semi correct, there is no equal playing ground. But has nothing to do with SigTac SB15.

Line 3 You can own anything that is legal in your state.

Line 4 You can own anything that is legal in your state.

Line 5 Yes you can build one with a 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" fake suppressor. But you will need to permanently attache the fake moderator to the barrel.

Line 6 Correct, the SigTac SB15 will have no influence on crime. Wasn't designed to.

 

[LRRPF52]

What the hell?

Line 1 keep dreaming.

Line 2 is semi correct, there is no equal playing ground. But has nothing to do with SigTac SB15.

Line 3 You can own anything that is legal in your state.

Line 4 You can own anything that is legal in your state.

Line 5 Yes you can build one with a 11.5" barrel and a 4.5" fake suppressor. But you will need to permanently attache the fake moderator to the barrel.

Line 6 Correct, the SigTac SB15 will have no influence on crime. Wasn't designed to.

There were many of us that were told to "keep dreaming" when we were pushing for shall issue CCW laws in our States. Almost every State has that law now.

We were also told to "keep dreaming" when we anticipated the expiration and non renewal of the Clinton AWB.

Heller 2008? "Keep dreaming".

I want my right to keep and bear arms, without arbitrary and confusing, illegal and unconstitutional BS impediments from moronic bureaucrats who legislate outside of the Constitution from afar. I shouldn't have to pay a $200 fine to exercise my rights, so yes, I will maintain hope that we can unravel this abortion.

You cannot build an 11.5" with a 4.5" fake moderator and meet permanent 16" length requirements. Do the math with how two threaded parts attach and you will see where that falls short. 11.5" threaded barrel + 4.5" threaded moderator does not = 16".

 

[hotbrass]

You cannot build an 11.5" with a 4.5" fake moderator and meet permanent 16" length requirements. Do the math with how two threaded parts attach and you will see where that falls short. 11.5" threaded barrel + 4.5" threaded moderator does not = 16".

Yes you can certainly built a fake XM177E2! There are fake moderators, flash hiders, and barrel extensions specifically made for what you are suggesting that cover the threaded area and add the necessary 4.5" to an 11.5" barrel. OK, technically they are slightly longer than 4.5", and if you want a rifle the barrel and fake moderator must be pinned and welded together. But why dont you just go buy an 11.5" barrel and a real suppressor and sbr a lower and then your childhood dream will come true?

And to stay on topic, you can even put it on a pistol with a SigTac SB15!

 

[LRRPF52]

Yes you can certainly built a fake XM177E2! There are fake moderators, flash hiders, and barrel extensions specifically made for what you are suggesting that cover the threaded area and add the necessary 4.5" to an 11.5" barrel. OK, technically they are slightly longer than 4.5", and if you want a rifle the barrel and fake moderator must be pinned and welded together. But why dont you just go buy an 11.5" barrel and a real suppressor and sbr a lower and then your childhood dream will come true?

And to stay on topic, you can even put it on a pistol with a SigTac SB15!

I have the fake 4.5" moderator already from Brick, complete with welds. I have the vinyl acetate coated aluminum telestock. I have a real 603 upper with proof marks and forge codes. I have a period manufactured BCG. I have a correct ejection port cover and all the other small parts. I also have a NDS-16A1 reproduction lower, the correct end plate, and lock nut.

I don't want one of the incorrect fake moderators on this particular build, and I already have a slip over that would be good enough for some that will probably get used for another. The point is to make it as correct as possible for a number of reasons. I've already owned several of the look-alike heavy barreled carbines with 11.5" and 5.5" fake moderators, and they look and handle nothing like an XM177E2.

A Sig Brace on an XM177 would look like a bag of smashed bungsauce grenades.