why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

[marduk185]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

ahh wow, eof sounds hokey but im joe civilian now so... interesting debate.

 

[Victory]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

JayJay, your TTP's are so out dated.

You bitch about people running their gums and not knowing what they are talking about, well that's you chief. Last time you were in country was 5 years ago, things have changed... a lot.

Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle. Warning shots do nothing, as most times they are not seen by the drivers. The laser illuminates their windshield and almost instantly forces the vehicle to stop. It is a great tool to have in the tool box.

 

[marduk185]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JayJay, your TTP's are so out dated.

You bitch about people running their gums and not knowing what they are talking about, well that's you chief. Last time you were in country was 5 years ago, things have changed... a lot.

Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle. Warning shots do nothing, as most times they are not seen by the drivers. The laser illuminates their windshield and almost instantly forces the vehicle to stop. It is a great tool to have in the tool box.

</div></div>

yes things they seem are a changin...apparrently gazers in love with light sabers are the cats meow now. can purple be requested for a more mace windoo look?

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JayJay, your TTP's are so out dated.

You bitch about people running their gums and not knowing what they are talking about, well that's you chief. Last time you were in country was 5 years ago, things have changed... a lot.

Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle. Warning shots do nothing, as most times they are not seen by the drivers. The laser illuminates their windshield and almost instantly forces the vehicle to stop. It is a great tool to have in the tool box.

</div></div>

wow, OK? go back and re-read, I'm not arguing that it's a current ROE practice for "SOME" units, things DO change. I've posted personal experience and opinion. I will say however, I've been around a hot minute and have emailed 8 buddies throughout, 5 light Inf and 3 Mech(4 currently in theatre), since this debate started. Of the 8(8 seperate units by the way) only one uses one on his kit, and it IS a unit issue Item. 3 have seen them in use by adjoining units, and the other 4 didnt know what I was talking about, all senior leaders. Also my older brother is a CPT in GROUP currently in trashganistan and they don't use them. So my point is this, take a breath, relax, I am not arguing that the practice of using commercial purchase green beam light sabres in country is a good or bad idea, or that it is a SOP used by SOME, i repeat SOME units, matter of fact it sounds like it works wonderfully, It's actually good to hear that some units have found ways to utilize the EOF effectively that work for them.I actually said I'd like to see it for myself if I recall. As far as I, as in ME, talking to posts saying they dont know what they are talking about, again read over cause I was talking about a guys jibber jabber that was thread unrelated that "he knew what he spoke he did not" as Yoda would say! actually i think he deleted all his nonsense but you can still read my replies though. have a good day POCAHONTAS!......just sayin since I was chief

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Warning shots do nothing, as most times they are not seen by the drivers.</div></div>

POCAHONTAS, I forgot about this statement, I dont care if it was 5 years ago or when I was in the battle on San Juan Hill, live warning shots HAVE ALWAYS stopped the vehicle, I have seen this FIRST HAND hundreds upon hundreds of times. Like I've said but for you will repeat, I HAVE NOT FIRST HAND SEEN GREEN BEAMS STOP TRAFFIC, nor do I claim to so I will take first hand accounts as legitimate.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle</div></div>

really? are these lasers from star wars? does youre unit have technology from aliens? HA HA I'm just playin Pocahontas, I know what you mean.

 

[PhrogDriver]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

This probably doesn't apply to civilian applications, but here's some food for thought...

- Lasers are a great way to mark targets/point things out to your team or other friendly unit (like an aircraft). PEQs in particular are very useful for marking LZs and directing fire.

- Some weapons (particularly vehicle/aircraft mounted weapons) don't have sights that are practical for night time use. So, things like IZLIDs and GCPs are often mounted to the weapon system so it can be used effectively at night.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

INTERESTING PhrogDriver, I like it, you brought to light a whole new realm to this debate. I DONT CLAIM to know because i am not in aviation, but I think that the Apache has a IR laser on it's 20mm for night use. I know the mini g's on the blackhawks I rode in a few times during air missions had IR lasers on them, kinda felt good gettin off the bird seein that beam scanning around from a mini as we debarked in the darkness!

 

[Victory]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">live warning shots HAVE ALWAYS stopped the vehicle, I have seen this FIRST HAND hundreds upon hundreds of times.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really? are these lasers from star wars? does youre unit have technology from aliens? HA HA I'm just playin Pocahontas, I know what you mean. </div></div>

They are warning shots, so theoretically they have the same stopping power as a laser. Warning shots have the ability to ricochet and cause collateral damage, therefore, they are frowned upon in most areas. Also,the flashes from a muzzle and the report from the weapon used are not always seen or heard. This leads to engaging targets that probably shouldn't have been engaged. So what could this mistake in PID lead too? More bad guys, thats right. There are no more Free Fire Zones brother and the fobits get restless. 15-6's for everyone.

Your friend in Group, well I am sure their EOF is a lot different than CF EOF. Different rules, different tools.


Oh, and I would email my buddies in theater too, but I'm not a douche. I did ask my buddy in the other room who just got back a month ago.

He said they used them all the time on the RG31's, Cougars, and M-ATV's. You are probably going to need to send another email to know what those vehicles are, but thats okay, its good for you.

He also said Gen McChrystal put out that they were supposed to share the roads with the civilians and not use the lasers anymore.

Funny how Gen. McChrystal knows about them, but your senior leadership buddies don't.

Have fun brother, I'm still laughing.

Here are the lasers we were using. http://www.bemeyers.com/index.php?option=com_product&catid=1&id=3&Itemid=53

 

[PhrogDriver]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">INTERESTING PhrogDriver, I like it, you brought to light a whole new realm to this debate. I DONT CLAIM to know because i am not in aviation, but I think that the Apache has a IR laser on it's 20mm for night use. I know the mini g's on the blackhawks I rode in a few times during air missions had IR lasers on them, kinda felt good gettin off the bird seein that beam scanning around from a mini as we debarked in the darkness! </div></div>

Yeah, pretty much every mounted weapon system I'm familiar with in aviation either has an IR laser mounted on it or some other sensor suite on the aircraft has an IR laser that can track with the weapon. They show up great on NVGs and FLIR systems. In fact, one of the best IR lasers I've had the pleasure of utilizing (indirectly) is on the LITENING pod carried by USMC Harriers and F/A-18Ds (and probably a few others). Nothing beats it when you're trying to land in a very precise location (right next to some haji's house during an insert, for example) and you can see "the finger of God" pointing down from the night sky showing you exactly where to touch down. Its even stabilized so even if the aircraft is maneuvering it stays glued to whatever 10-digit grid its pointed at.

Crew served weapons with IR lasers came in quite handy when our gunners used them to point out "things of interest" to the folks getting off the aircraft. And, if things escalated, everyone would know where our rounds would impact.

Of course, only IR lasers (generally used at night and amplified by NVGs/FLIR) are considered usable for such applications. God only knows how powerful a visible laser would have to be for a door gunner to see it and be able to use it in the dayime...

 

[HOOFER]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JayJay, your TTP's are so out dated.

You bitch about people running their gums and not knowing what they are talking about, well that's you chief. Last time you were in country was 5 years ago, things have changed... a lot.

Green beam lasers are one of the most effective ways to stop a vehicle. Warning shots do nothing, as most times they are not seen by the drivers. The laser illuminates their windshield and almost instantly forces the vehicle to stop. It is a great tool to have in the tool box.

</div></div>

wow, OK? go back and re-read, I'm not arguing that it's a current ROE practice for "SOME" units, things DO change. I've posted personal experience and opinion. I will say however, I've been around a hot minute and have emailed 8 buddies throughout, 5 light Inf and 3 Mech(4 currently in theatre), since this debate started. Of the 8(8 seperate units by the way) only one uses one on his kit, and it IS a unit issue Item. 3 have seen them in use by adjoining units, and the other 4 didnt know what I was talking about, all senior leaders. Also my older brother is a CPT in GROUP currently in trashganistan and they don't use them. So my point is this, take a breath, relax, I am not arguing that the practice of using commercial purchase green beam light sabres in country is a good or bad idea, or that it is a SOP used by SOME, i repeat SOME units, matter of fact it sounds like it works wonderfully, It's actually good to hear that some units have found ways to utilize the EOF effectively that work for them.I actually said I'd like to see it for myself if I recall. As far as I, as in ME, talking to posts saying they dont know what they are talking about, again read over cause I was talking about a guys jibber jabber that was thread unrelated that "he knew what he spoke he did not" as Yoda would say! actually i think he deleted all his nonsense but you can still read my replies though. have a good day POCAHONTAS!......just sayin since I was chief </div></div>




are you kidding me, because you dont see it at benning means its not valid, with the privates we been getting im wondering wtf you guys do teach them, sure as hell nothing useful. everything they know from basic is well my DS told me it would be like this or like that. worthless. and comparing it to your buddy in group. lol yeah cuz im sure hes a valid source for what the military is using. i love you guys that come back off the trail and deployed in 03-04 and think you got it all figured out. the e-4s eat you guys alive. and you end up in an s shop or the training room. just because your a super tool doesnt mean you know it all.




but back on topic, there is a place for lasers, for EOF the green beams are definately a car stopper, we used pen flares more than the lasers but they work well also. the peq 15 lasers work well. i know we did a raid and johnny and his wife decided to bail out the back door, and our squad was on another roof, we hit them with the surefires and they kept strolling, you put that red laser on his chest he knew. as far as for shooting unless its and ir laser there isnt a point to them i dont think, most people can shoot faster without a laser, they concentrate too much on putting the dot perfect, than putting rounds on target. lots of people use them on pistols obviously, if you think you need it or have trouble seeing sights then more power too you, on a rifle. if your using a laser to aim, other than ir at night, you got bigger problems than what your shooting at.

 

[marduk185]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

sounds to me like a lot more threatening and a lot less firing is happening on more recent deployments. it also ocurs to me that when your threatening these people with your magic light brite wand of authority you are lasing yourself for snipers. just sayin. the origial op asked about sub guns and rifles and you delta dans have turned this into lasing haji for traffic chores. the answer is...limited uses with high grade models. avoid the rest.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

look I'm only gonna say this one last time, read what I wrote! Not questioning the tactic, havent been in a few, goin back in Jan '11, so gettin educated too.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your friend in Group, well I am sure their EOF is a lot different than CF EOF. Different rules, different tools.</div></div>

again, check your literacy, he's my older brother not "friend". And I will spare you his comments on this subject

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, and I would email my buddies in theater too, but I'm not a douche. I did ask my buddy in the other room who just got back a month ago.</div></div>

yet again, re-read, JB on here who posted comments is a good buddy and he got back two weeks ago. you're maturity level is really shining through!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He said they used them all the time on the RG31's, Cougars, and M-ATV's. You are probably going to need to send another email to know what those vehicles are, but thats okay, its good for you.</div></div>

so second accounts by you are legitimate, but by me are junk? makes alot of sense I suppose in you're make believe world

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He also said Gen McChrystal put out that they were supposed to share the roads with the civilians and not use the lasers anymore. </div></div>

now we are into third party accounts <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and not use the lasers anymore. </div></div>[/quote]

that totally discredit your arguement anyway

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how Gen. McChrystal knows about them, but your senior leadership buddies don't.</div></div>

not questioning this but it is a second hand account, I was just relying what first hand knowledge other than on SH I could find........or not find as it turned out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have fun brother, I'm still laughing.</div></div>

me too Pocahontas, me too!

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

really not gonna get into a pissing match with the E-4 Buck Sargeant mafia on here but will reply to a few things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you kidding me, because you dont see it at benning means its not valid, with the privates we been getting im wondering wtf you guys do teach them, sure as hell nothing useful. everything they know from basic is well my DS told me it would be like this or like that. worthless.</div></div>

Funny enough but I won't and can't argue this fact. I was there myself as a PSG gettin straight moronic Privates into my Platoon. I saw first hand that in AIT land we were pretty handcuffed, it was not so much about the quality as much it was the quantity, it got very frustrating not being able to re-cycle turds that had no place shipping to their first unit, so I know where you're coming from trust me! I will say this, Infantry school is probably the best at being up to speed on current ROE and TTP's in use in country.They are in daily contact with CALL if that means anything at all. Not saying we were THE UTMOST UPDATED cause I know we werent. I know myself and my battles did what we could to share the knowledge we had form multiple deployments and prep those little bastards the best we could, was some total BS info put out by Jackass drills? ABSOLUTELY! but don't think that was the majority.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and comparing it to your buddy in group. lol yeah cuz im sure hes a valid source for what the military is using</div></div>

you guys really need to learn to read, and understand what your reading on these threads before you comment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the e-4s eat you guys alive</div></div>

that's just funny

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and you end up in an s shop or the training room.</div></div>

sure it happens, not cause why you're implying, but I guess as a BUCK you havent quite figured out career progression, gotta look past your TEAM guy, write that down!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because your a super tool doesnt mean you know it all.</div></div>

we are all tools at the Army's disposal, so you saying I'm super, well thanks! never claimed to know it all, far from it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but back on topic, there is a place for lasers, for EOF the green beams are definately a car stopper, we used pen flares more than the lasers but they work well also. the peq 15 lasers work well. i know we did a raid and johnny and his wife decided to bail out the back door, and our squad was on another roof, we hit them with the surefires and they kept strolling, you put that red laser on his chest he knew. as far as for shooting unless its and ir laser there isnt a point to them i dont think, most people can shoot faster without a laser, they concentrate too much on putting the dot perfect, than putting rounds on target. lots of people use them on pistols obviously, if you think you need it or have trouble seeing sights then more power too you, on a rifle. if your using a laser to aim, other than ir at night, you got bigger problems than what your shooting at. </div></div>

totally agree with this, intelligent comments. What happened with the rest of your post?

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

Funny thing is I posted about green lasers for ar 15 a while ago and got 0 response.Except someone made a smart ass reference to the post somewhere else. Lasers are a tool and do have a place. The only bad I have heard is that no one uses them properly.The only good point made was if one was to take some low light training they would change their minds. My 16" ar has a m4 aimpoint, back-up iron sights co-witnessed and a surefire M910A. A green laser is on order to round out the the package.It's funny but another post brought up the good point that the current military is grossly under trained with special forces being the exception yet equiptment is being judged by how it is used by the military. I was at the range yesterday and had the honor of talking to a young man who was just back from the sandbox .He and his dad were spending time before he had to be back. A large shipment of 5.56 was on the floor in a stack .He was buying a few hundred rounds for his dad and when he was told it was on stripper clips he asked "whats a stripper clip" Boy how things have changed!
Scot

 

[Victory]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

LOL I guess we will just have to disagree about who the bigger ass is in the conversation.

Im done with this thread.

Buck SGT Pocahontas OUT

 

[HOOFER]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really not gonna get into a pissing match with the E-4 Buck Sargeant mafia on here but will reply to a few things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you kidding me, because you dont see it at benning means its not valid, with the privates we been getting im wondering wtf you guys do teach them, sure as hell nothing useful. everything they know from basic is well my DS told me it would be like this or like that. worthless.</div></div>

Funny enough but I won't and can't argue this fact. I was there myself as a PSG gettin straight moronic Privates into my Platoon. I saw first hand that in AIT land we were pretty handcuffed, it was not so much about the quality as much it was the quantity, it got very frustrating not being able to re-cycle turds that had no place shipping to their first unit, so I know where you're coming from trust me! I will say this, Infantry school is probably the best at being up to speed on current ROE and TTP's in use in country.They are in daily contact with CALL if that means anything at all. Not saying we were THE UTMOST UPDATED cause I know we werent. I know myself and my battles did what we could to share the knowledge we had form multiple deployments and prep those little bastards the best we could, was some total BS info put out by Jackass drills? ABSOLUTELY! but don't think that was the majority.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and comparing it to your buddy in group. lol yeah cuz im sure hes a valid source for what the military is using</div></div>

you guys really need to learn to read, and understand what your reading on these threads before you comment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the e-4s eat you guys alive</div></div>

that's just funny

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and you end up in an s shop or the training room.</div></div>

sure it happens, not cause why you're implying, but I guess as a BUCK you havent quite figured out career progression, gotta look past your TEAM guy, write that down!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because your a super tool doesnt mean you know it all.</div></div>

we are all tools at the Army's disposal, so you saying I'm super, well thanks! never claimed to know it all, far from it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but back on topic, there is a place for lasers, for EOF the green beams are definately a car stopper, we used pen flares more than the lasers but they work well also. the peq 15 lasers work well. i know we did a raid and johnny and his wife decided to bail out the back door, and our squad was on another roof, we hit them with the surefires and they kept strolling, you put that red laser on his chest he knew. as far as for shooting unless its and ir laser there isnt a point to them i dont think, most people can shoot faster without a laser, they concentrate too much on putting the dot perfect, than putting rounds on target. lots of people use them on pistols obviously, if you think you need it or have trouble seeing sights then more power too you, on a rifle. if your using a laser to aim, other than ir at night, you got bigger problems than what your shooting at. </div></div>

totally agree with this, intelligent comments. What happened with the rest of your post? </div></div>




first of all you called me buck about 4 times, what you gonna call me stud next. good one dip shit, your breaking my little heart and my feelings which are both on my sleeve. your digging yourself outta the tool box all right. career progression, i been in a third the time as you and probably the same number of deployments. so good one. how many BUCK's you know that are J3 qualified. that trumps any bullshit ass school you been too. as for the rest. you come in here an bag on DK and victory. and completely discredit their opinions with your smart ass condisending bullshit. because when your being a dog and pony instructor you didnt teach your privates about a green laser. and your right he asked about lasers on subguns and rifles, people gave real world answers and your pog ass thought you were all high speed.

 

[HOOFER]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

Quote:and you end up in an s shop or the training room.

Quote: sure it happens, not cause why you're implying, but I guess as a BUCK you havent quite figured out career progression, gotta look past your TEAM guy, write that down!



well who leads soldiers and who doesnt. when my job in the infantry is 90% paperwork and 10% being a trigger puller then ill gladley retire myself. you sit in the truck and call up front line traces and make sure we have MRE's. but based on the rest of your douche ass posts i bet your SL's walk all over your tool ass too. do you call your PL daddy?

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

And last but not least my favorite use for vis laser - painting the floor and screwing with the dog!!!!!



Good luck

 

[NY700]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

I'm right ther with mo zam beek. I have a 6mo old. I put that laser on the wall and start bouncing it around and he loves it. I tell myself its good for is visual tracking skills.

 

[marduk185]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really not gonna get into a pissing match with the E-4 Buck Sargeant mafia on here but will reply to a few things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you kidding me, because you dont see it at benning means its not valid, with the privates we been getting im wondering wtf you guys do teach them, sure as hell nothing useful. everything they know from basic is well my DS told me it would be like this or like that. worthless.</div></div>

Funny enough but I won't and can't argue this fact. I was there myself as a PSG gettin straight moronic Privates into my Platoon. I saw first hand that in AIT land we were pretty handcuffed, it was not so much about the quality as much it was the quantity, it got very frustrating not being able to re-cycle turds that had no place shipping to their first unit, so I know where you're coming from trust me! I will say this, Infantry school is probably the best at being up to speed on current ROE and TTP's in use in country.They are in daily contact with CALL if that means anything at all. Not saying we were THE UTMOST UPDATED cause I know we werent. I know myself and my battles did what we could to share the knowledge we had form multiple deployments and prep those little bastards the best we could, was some total BS info put out by Jackass drills? ABSOLUTELY! but don't think that was the majority.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and comparing it to your buddy in group. lol yeah cuz im sure hes a valid source for what the military is using</div></div>

you guys really need to learn to read, and understand what your reading on these threads before you comment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the e-4s eat you guys alive</div></div>

that's just funny

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and you end up in an s shop or the training room.</div></div>

sure it happens, not cause why you're implying, but I guess as a BUCK you havent quite figured out career progression, gotta look past your TEAM guy, write that down!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because your a super tool doesnt mean you know it all.</div></div>

we are all tools at the Army's disposal, so you saying I'm super, well thanks! never claimed to know it all, far from it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but back on topic, there is a place for lasers, for EOF the green beams are definately a car stopper, we used pen flares more than the lasers but they work well also. the peq 15 lasers work well. i know we did a raid and johnny and his wife decided to bail out the back door, and our squad was on another roof, we hit them with the surefires and they kept strolling, you put that red laser on his chest he knew. as far as for shooting unless its and ir laser there isnt a point to them i dont think, most people can shoot faster without a laser, they concentrate too much on putting the dot perfect, than putting rounds on target. lots of people use them on pistols obviously, if you think you need it or have trouble seeing sights then more power too you, on a rifle. if your using a laser to aim, other than ir at night, you got bigger problems than what your shooting at. </div></div>

totally agree with this, intelligent comments. What happened with the rest of your post? </div></div>




first of all you called me buck about 4 times, what you gonna call me stud next. good one dip shit, your breaking my little heart and my feelings which are both on my sleeve. your digging yourself outta the tool box all right. career progression, i been in a third the time as you and probably the same number of deployments. so good one. how many BUCK's you know that are J3 qualified. that trumps any bullshit ass school you been too. as for the rest. you come in here an bag on DK and victory. and completely discredit their opinions with your smart ass condisending bullshit. because when your being a dog and pony instructor you didnt teach your privates about a green laser. and your right he asked about lasers on subguns and rifles, people gave real world answers and your pog ass thought you were all high speed. </div></div>
uhhh, just for the record buck, hes been to a few "different" schools that trump yer bullshit. just sayin cuz i know the guy.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

don't bother Marduk, this guy has effectively ruined an otherwise interesting debate by grown folk. Let him feel like he's an all star soldier. The rest of us can read between the lines and see the IQ we are dealing with. I'm out on this one.

 

[jb7032]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">really not gonna get into a pissing match with the E-4 Buck Sargeant mafia on here but will reply to a few things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you kidding me, because you dont see it at benning means its not valid, with the privates we been getting im wondering wtf you guys do teach them, sure as hell nothing useful. everything they know from basic is well my DS told me it would be like this or like that. worthless.</div></div>

Funny enough but I won't and can't argue this fact. I was there myself as a PSG gettin straight moronic Privates into my Platoon. I saw first hand that in AIT land we were pretty handcuffed, it was not so much about the quality as much it was the quantity, it got very frustrating not being able to re-cycle turds that had no place shipping to their first unit, so I know where you're coming from trust me! I will say this, Infantry school is probably the best at being up to speed on current ROE and TTP's in use in country.They are in daily contact with CALL if that means anything at all. Not saying we were THE UTMOST UPDATED cause I know we werent. I know myself and my battles did what we could to share the knowledge we had form multiple deployments and prep those little bastards the best we could, was some total BS info put out by Jackass drills? ABSOLUTELY! but don't think that was the majority.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and comparing it to your buddy in group. lol yeah cuz im sure hes a valid source for what the military is using</div></div>

you guys really need to learn to read, and understand what your reading on these threads before you comment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the e-4s eat you guys alive</div></div>

that's just funny

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and you end up in an s shop or the training room.</div></div>

sure it happens, not cause why you're implying, but I guess as a BUCK you havent quite figured out career progression, gotta look past your TEAM guy, write that down!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because your a super tool doesnt mean you know it all.</div></div>

we are all tools at the Army's disposal, so you saying I'm super, well thanks! never claimed to know it all, far from it.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but back on topic, there is a place for lasers, for EOF the green beams are definately a car stopper, we used pen flares more than the lasers but they work well also. the peq 15 lasers work well. i know we did a raid and johnny and his wife decided to bail out the back door, and our squad was on another roof, we hit them with the surefires and they kept strolling, you put that red laser on his chest he knew. as far as for shooting unless its and ir laser there isnt a point to them i dont think, most people can shoot faster without a laser, they concentrate too much on putting the dot perfect, than putting rounds on target. lots of people use them on pistols obviously, if you think you need it or have trouble seeing sights then more power too you, on a rifle. if your using a laser to aim, other than ir at night, you got bigger problems than what your shooting at. </div></div>

totally agree with this, intelligent comments. What happened with the rest of your post? </div></div>




first of all you called me buck about 4 times, what you gonna call me stud next. good one dip shit, your breaking my little heart and my feelings which are both on my sleeve. your digging yourself outta the tool box all right. career progression, i been in a third the time as you and probably the same number of deployments. so good one. how many BUCK's you know that are J3 qualified. that trumps any bullshit ass school you been too. as for the rest. you come in here an bag on DK and victory. and completely discredit their opinions with your smart ass condisending bullshit. because when your being a dog and pony instructor you didnt teach your privates about a green laser. and your right he asked about lasers on subguns and rifles, people gave real world answers and your pog ass thought you were all high speed. </div></div>

So J3 trumps B4, All army long range champion, distinguished pistol shot, and presidents hundred tab? I'm not any of those. I was just wondering. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't j3 Bradley Master gunner qualified? That is a tuff school, i've heard, you have to be pretty smart. Not trying to be a smart ass here, but what does it have to do with the discussion? Again, not trying to assault you.

 

[jb7032]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

Well, actually i am one of those. But its my business which one, it is not my intention to get into a pissing match. It has happened on here before, but i'm not gonna get into it again. Just asking what J3 had to do with the discussion. Again, please don't get mad at me, i'm just asking a sincere question.

 

[HOOFER]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

i wasnt trying to play the pissing match game, i just love that people ask questions, people give their experience and opinion then dbags, who have been around here for a few months think they know it all and discredit others opinions, the only reason i brought up j3 is it does alot more for promotion than any of those other things. he threw out that i dont know about careen progression. well as far as career progression goes, j3 trumps all of those. it may not be a cool guy school like those, but they dont get you past e-6 quickly by themselves.

 

[jb7032]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

fair enough, thanks for an honest answer.

 

[KiwiShtr]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

I know this threads last post was a few months ago, but was very interesting (and entertaining) reading.
Ive had a bit of experience with the Vis lasers. Like a few have said, we used them as part of our EOF, that was around the end of 04 we got them. Since then (SOFA), we have very little use for them as we cant hold a "Bubble" and have to "Share the road" with the locals. They did have a place and in the old days did give another option, especially for the well gunners.
Ive also been on the recieving end of the Green Laser from Follow vehicle gunners. Our motorcade would slowely approach a Big Army convoy and try to make visual communications with the gunner. 99 out of a 100 times, after a flash of VF17 panels and plaquards (that spelt right?) etc, we'd get waved on and free to pass. Most motorcades/convoys have their own comfort distance for their bubble, some closer than others and sometimes after trying to get the ok, we would get the dazzel of the laser in the windscreen and get the hint and give them some breathing room. Lasers(Green ones that Ive seen/used) definitly work and you know youve been lasered. Good bits of kit. IMHO. My 7cents

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

There are so many ways an explination to this post can be broken down. You have 2 areas that these items are used, and one that shall only be refered to , but not spoken of, as the infamous mall ninja.

First you have Military/Law enforcement. Military uses IR lasers for a variety of things. One being target identification and aquisition in low/no light conditions since you can illuminate and "mark" or "paint" a target for artillery and whatnot. It can be seen with NV and add light where there is none. Weapon mounted lights are useful, but in a combat situation there are also IR filters/lights that are used. The last thing a soldier wants it to light up himself or his squad using an illumiation device visible to the naked eye. For building clearing some NVGs do not offer a close quarters resolution so there left with using standard lights to make way. Law enforcement, the standard patrol officer, makes better use out of a weapon mounted light, and its rare to see NVGs and IR lasers used in that capacity. LEOs are very likely to do building clearing on a regular basis so lights are very important. They do shy away from lasers as sometimes officers become reliant on them which leads to problems if it fails in a stressful situation.

Then you have civilian use. Companies like LaserGrips like to advertise thar you can hit a target without looking down the sights.I would never condone this action, nor train to do it. If you arent paying attention to your sights, you shouldnt be pulling the trigger. The only exception to this would be an up close confrontation where a hip shot it the only defense. For home defense a light is your friend. It can be used to ID an unwanted guest at night, shining it right in their face can temporarily blind and disorient them. If you train with one then learn when to use it and not to. Sometimes you may silouette yourself which is bad. For the resident looking to be prepared for a night encounter a flashlight, cellphone, and choice firearm is your best setup. Remember, a weapon mounted light means you have to point your weapon at what you are trying to see. So if your kid is raiding the fridge, or sneaking in from a late night, I hope the adrenaline doesnt have you mistake him for a burglar. I was always told if I planned on a weapon mounted light, keep a regular light as well. The last thing you need is to have your weapon light fail when you need it, or in a non-confrontational situation you dont want to have to point a gun at a person to provide light.

I know this has been long, and boring and I tried to make it as short as possible, but it covers the more important issues of lasers and lights.

 

[BEM98052]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

B.E. Meyers GLARE MOUT Green Laser or LA9/P Green Laser with SCM, approved by LSRB and REF for EOF Kits. http://www.bemeyers.com/index.php?option=com_product&catid=36&id=12

 

[eleaf]

Re: why lasers on rifles/sub guns ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think a quality laser is a great BACKUP site. to many folks use it as a primary and thats not what it was designed for. if a laser is the only sight you pratice with and the battery dies you are screwed. but i think they are great in a lowlight situation if you get a good one. ive had the cheep 100 dollar lasers and they are worthless. the ct lasers are the brightest ive tried so far </div></div>

Are you serious? Do you know how much of the equipment that the military uses these days relies on batteries? </div></div>

are you seriously saying that because the army with its tremendous supply chain runs around on battery power that its the correct answer for everyone? </div></div>

Many many people transpose "what the military uses" with "good equipment". It is not always the case.