Range Report why the 155gr. scenar for .308

CST

CST

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Minuteman
Dec 31, 2002
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Md
#1
Ballistically the 155gr. scenar seems the pretty good on paper for reaching out to 1000 for a .308...if it saves me up to 6moa at that distance why doesnt everyone catch on and start shootin em instead of the 175grs.????

what are the short comings on the 155grs.? if there so much better than the 175s...i figure everyone should useing em.. convince me to take the plunge.,\
 
#2
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I think you'll find that lots of folks have switched.

I've had my 155s out past 1300 and they did very well. I can't forsee a reason for me to switch back to the 175s.

Availability of the 175s vs. the 155s may be why others haven't switched, or perhaps their gun just doesn't like them. 175s can be had just about anywhere .... you can't say the same for the 155s.

FWIW: Just about all of the folks who were shooting ASC this fall, with .308's, were using 155s. Not only that, but a slew of us were all pushing them rather lightly @ 2900.
 
#3
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

Don't overlok the new 155.5 Fullbore from Berger either. I used it at the Canadian Fullbore Rifle Championships last month in Ottawa and it shot with or inside the lapua. I'm pushing them really hard, and they sure seemed to respond. Easy to load too.
 
#4
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

its a lighter bullet..how would it perform on live targets as a military round in Iraq compared to a 175 at distance...??

Also I would assume it may lower barrel life?
 
#5
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

We just started shooting them (the 155 Scenar) and I've never been much of a 308 fan. Even I have to admit that the 155's almost seem to turn the 308 into a different animal when you're used to shooting the 175SMK. If I was forced to shoot a 308 I'd run the 155Scenar and never look back.
 
#7
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

Mathematically yes, less recoil, felt recoil negligible. Barrel life is going to be about the same. We are really only talking about +/- 200fps gain.

That 200fps gain w/ a better BC brings you a little closer to the speed demons with out having to change your entire set up.

That why I switched to the 155's

KT
 
#8
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

There are bunch of folks that shoot 155s here, and have less drop to compensate for at distances less than 600yds. Although the drop may be less at 800+, I still find my 175s are holding better groups than them. Also, the groups reported at 100/200 moa distances are not nearly as tight; maybe due to "overpowdering" and trying to push too much.
 
#9
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I just started on my second box of 500, I'll never go back to 175/178's in .308, these dam things rock, get up to 2950 and you'll see.
 
#10
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

The trick is velocity, from what I've found. The 175s seem to be more forgiving, while the 155s really need to leave the barrel in the 2900fps range. That said though, once I found the right load, my 155s have outperformed my 175 loads at distance every time.
 
#11
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

The biggest drawback of the 155 scenars that I can see is the availability and the cost, which is slightly more expensive than the 175 SMK.

I know of a hid member here who has taken a Kangaroo at 600 + yards with the 155 scenars. So, I don't think it's an issue regarding that. Now, I won't endorse hunting big game of thick skin game with that. But for punching paper, and perhaps a few 2 legged insurgents, I don't think it would be a problem. But that's JMHO.

Now, I also think that you are not going to see Uncle Sam switching to that, because of cost and definitely not made in the USA.
 
#13
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

The 155 scenar also works well in the 300WM 3150fps no pressure signs and consistently .4-.5 moa. Downside is as DesertHK said, a little hard to find.
 
#14
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

Crumpett
How far are you able to push that 155 scenars in your 300 win mag? I am in the process of choosing a bullet for the 300 win mag also. Leaning toward the 220 SMK.
 
#15
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

how do they work out of a Rem. LTR 20" short barrel type...they wont be traveling at 2900fps so they wont be at their accuracy node??
 
#16
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

CST, look down just 2 post under this one...MontanaMarine has a post about his 20.5" 308 shooting these bullets at (I think it was) ~2800fps and jumping them.
 
#17
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do they work out of a Rem. LTR 20" short barrel type...they wont be traveling at 2900fps so they wont be at their accuracy node??</div></div>

If you are not generating enough speed then the drop becomes comparable to the SMK that's all. You can still find some accurate nodes within the 2800 fps range.
 
#18
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistically the 155gr. scenar seems the pretty good on paper for reaching out to 1000 for a .308... </div></div>
Not just on paper - it is "pretty good."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..if it saves me up to 6moa at that distance why doesnt everyone catch on and start shootin em instead of the 175grs.????</div></div>
Depending on the bullet/speed you are currently using, the 155 Scenar can save you more than 6 MOA @ 1K. And, I am not sure why more people don't use them.
 
#21
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

You don't have to push the 155's fast to get good accuracy. I've gotten really good accuracy from 100yards to 1000 going from 2785fps to 2840fps. I could go faster but this load so consistent at these velocities, I am happy with it where it is. And don't buy into "you have to put them into the lands". They work great jumping to the lands!

shadow4
 
#23
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

27.5moa @ 1000 today, first round hit on a 8 inch steel plate, mine are jumping .030, it was windy, I was holding 6 moa to the right, Dane5331 was at 38moa with his 175's holding almost 11moa, the speed and higher BC trump the 175's, but they are alot harder to get, mail order is a must.
 
#24
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

okie:

Remington 700p LTR .308 (20")

45.5gr IMR4895
Lapua Brass
155gr Lapua Scenar
210 Primer
2.83 OAL (max mag length)

46.4gr IMR4895
BHA/Win Brass
155gr Lapua Scenar
210 Primer
2.83 OAL

MY current F-class load is:

47.6gr IMR4895
Win Brass/BHA brass
2.92OAL



DISCLAIMER:

THESE ARE MY LOADS...SAFE IN MY GUN... PLEASE WORK UP!


-Wil
 
#27
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfman1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't overlok the new 155.5 Fullbore from Berger either. I used it at the Canadian Fullbore Rifle Championships last month in Ottawa and it shot with or inside the lapua. I'm pushing them really hard, and they sure seemed to respond. Easy to load too. </div></div>

Tell me more about the 155 Bergers. I've tried the 155 Scenars and failed to get them to work for me in my HBV. Does it have as high a BC as the Scenars?
 
#28
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I helped a friend work up some 155 Scenar loads the other day using Varget. I arbitrarily set the jump at .030" for and OAL of 2.83 or so if I recall. Anyway, all loads tried were great. We made it to 44 grains (low according to the books)with no bad pressure signs and much much flatter than the 175's. I can't see any reason to shoot 175's again if the 155's work.

On another note, I am buying the 155's for several dollars a box cheaper than the 175SMK's.
 
#33
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mathematically yes, less recoil, felt recoil negligible. Barrel life is going to be about the same. We are really only talking about +/- 200fps gain.

That 200fps gain w/ a better BC brings you a little closer to the speed demons with out having to change your entire set up.

That why I switched to the 155's

KT </div></div>

Curious, how do we expect about same barrel life, pushing to magnum velocities, over the 175's?.
Bearing surface?.

I know barrels are expendable, and part of the game...........

<span style="font-weight: bold">But I have to call a BS flag on wear.</span>May be wrong...........someone clue me in.
 
#34
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I've seen many comments that the 155s have a BETTER BC than the 175 SMK. I've found it to be equal ... some find it to be LESS than the 175 when you get out past 1K.
 
#35
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen many comments that the 155s have a BETTER BC than the 175 SMK. I've found it to be equal ... </div></div>

How did you come to this conclusion?

okie
 
#36
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

All this talk about the 155s has my interest. I dont have a balistic program. But could one of you tell me if a 175 smk running at 2900fps would compair to a 155 running say 2950. I have 2000 lapua 155s but cant get them to shoot in my guns to my liking. The noslers and sierras shoot and the 185 lapua shoots i just cant get the 155 to shoot.
 
#38
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen many comments that the 155s have a BETTER BC than the 175 SMK. I've found it to be equal ... </div></div>
How did you come to this conclusion?
okie</div></div>

I use the 3 published BC values offered by the 175 SMK, and plug in all of the other variables (like baro, temp, etc) and get dope charts which are really darn close. They generally end up close enough that I need to consider scope click error before I start pointing fingers elsewhere.

I don't have a TON of data beyond 1K, so my charts might be off at extended ranges, I just don't have accurate real world data points for comparison. I have heard from other shooters that the 175 SMK data was too optimistic for their shots out near 1200 (off by 2 minutes ... or something like that). I've had them beyond 1300 before, but didn't take good notes on the environment to know how good my charts were. One time I was that far out, I think I had some scope cant skewing my shots.

I do know that the one published BC value for the scenar is too high for all of the velocity ranges. No matter what program I use to create drop charts, it's always way too optimistic.

This guy is a helluva lot smarter than I, and he has great data that shows the single published BC value is inflated. I think he came up with a BC value of .459 ... being 11% inflated. I do think that using a single published BC value is too much 'averaging' for my liking. I may have to recreate some charts which use his 4 published values and see how it lines up.

http://bryanlitz.bravehost.com/articles/Lapua_Scenar.pdf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was shown that the Lapua scenar bullet does indeed have the highest BC out of all 3 Palma bullets. However, the advantage is not nearly as profound as it’s advertised to be. At +11% error, the Lapua bullet had the most error between the measured and advertised BC (The Sierra and Berger bullet had +5 to +6% error).</div></div>

This is how he tests:
http://bryanlitz.bravehost.com/BCTest.html
 
#40
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

Dudes stop shooting scenars they suk, 27MOA @1k
47.6gr 4895 2.870 pert quick
2.920 as much as it pains me to admit it varget is a better choice, plus with no change in scope hit 2" higher on target than IMR LOAD @ 300yds
I hear rumor that a new Skinny is on table, everything front of ogive is plastic so more than Amax style tip BC is suppose to be .550 or better. Dont it sound good???
LAser = 130jlk .620bc @ 3000fps 21-22MOA @1k, almost like cheating
 
#44
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mk4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much Varget with the 155 Scenars? </div></div>

The Hodgdon manual states 44-47 grains with a 155 SMK.

Since my last post in this thread I got my .308 back from the gunsmith after a barrel install. Arbitrarily set seating depth .030" jump and tried several charges between 43-45 grains, in half grain increments. Just like last week with my buddies rifle, every load shot great. Good enough that I am done searching for components, and i just need to pick a charge.

 
#45
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I use 45.5 and it has been safe in 4 308s here at the shop. Slight change in bullet seating depth and it just shoots.
I'm using Lapua brass and once fired Federal (I know it sucks)
With the Lapua brass, I have not worn out a case. The Federals are shit after 3 rounds with about any load near max that I tried
but I do get them free.
 
#47
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

Scimitar,

What kind of velocity are you getting with that load?

Overall Length?

I've tried the Scenars several years ago but to no success. Only thing, I don't recall trying any Varget. Used some Ramshot TAC, IMR4895 and maybe H4895.

Lapua brass is great.

 
#49
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

I have 2 Scenar loads, one light weight for benchrest use up close (300) and one for long range (1000+).

The benchrest load goes with 44.6 gr Varget CCI primers Win cases and 155 Scenars at 2.820. This load is down in the low 2800 fps range and will shoot 0.188" 5-shot groups when the idiot behind the trigger does his job. This one gives a slight crunch as the bullet is seated.

The long range load goes with 47.8 gr Varget CCI primers Win cases and 155 Scenars at 2.948" or 0.015 from the lands in my gun. This load will fly at 2925-2950 fps and show 30 MoA drop at 1000 yards and has printeed 5-shot groups of 0.335" at 100 yards. This one gives a big crunch as the bullet is seated.

{Note subtract 0.3-to-0.5 gr for Lapua cases.}
 
#50
Re: why the 155gr. scenar for .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deisel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lapua brass, 155gr Scenar, 46.0gr Varget, CCI BR2 primer. OAL 2.840 max that will feed from AICS mag. Velocity avg is 2870 fps.
</div></div>
I use the same load in a 25", 11 1/4" twist Rock, but with about 60 fps more velocity.
 
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