Why the Controversey over Creedmoor 6.5?

[Steel head]

The logistics argument that helped the 308 continue to reign king is gone, which is why we see people moving from it.

In the past you had the argument for a 308 saying you can find it everywhere, it's the same argument the preppers make for .22s. Today that is out the window and yes, Hornady is responsible for making it widely available, which is a good thing.

The 260 suffered because of Remington, it did not have the foresight to promote it, but then again, very little was promoted then like it is today. If we go back to this site, and @Greg Langelius * called it here in 2001 that the 6.5 was the correct answer.

The issue with the 260 is, the caliber used to get loaded really long when using match bullets and they would catch the lands and pull out in a lot of rifles. It was hit or miss due to ignorance on what would work, how to adjust. We fast forward many years and the 6.5CM helped answer that question by being a tick shorter. It's the same argument the 6.5x47 made, we can load long and not catch the lands. It fit in a magazine.

to me, it no longer matters what 6.5, the caliber is beyond proven. The 308 is absolutely capable, we just decided to leave it alone rather than adjust it, which makes sense. If you think about it, you can do the same thing to a 308, figure out how to how to hot rod it a bit more drop the barrel life for a more efficient wildcat variant. Maybe it means creating a factory Ackley variant and dropping the bullet weight a bit. but why bother.

Here is your minute of Zen, this is an Army rifle from 2015, it's a 260 being field by the tip of the spear,

The recoil argument is super valid too,

6.5CM still makes sense in gasser with limited OAL mags.
I kinda fought it with my 260 and AICS mags and as a total newb listening to everyone say you gotta get cozy to the lands to get it to shoot well.


The long OAL AI type mags certainly helped to get up on the lands or now I run a long throat and use it to get extra case capacity and embrace the jump.

I personally like the 6.5CM as it totally improved the 260 situation.
I got my 260 just before 6.5CM dropped and the component and factory ammo selection is far better now than then.

 

[Tokay444]

It's not. Math is static and never changes. Unless we're talking lasers. Then it changes. Speed of light and all.

It's not math...

Math. Time and distance specifically. There's many other contributors to mention like wind, etc. that are completely out of your control. The time/distance is controllable but the time after the bullet exits the barrel is not.

And yes, I imagine it is fluid to an extent.

It's math.

6.5CM still makes sense in gasser with limited OAL mags.
I kinda fought it with my 260 and AICS mags and as a total newb listening to everyone say you gotta get cozy to the lands to get it to shoot well.


The long OAL AI type mags certainly helped to get up on the lands or now I run a long throat and use it to get extra case capacity and embrace the jump.

I personally like the 6.5CM as it totally improved the 260 situation.
I got my 260 just before 6.5CM dropped and the component and factory ammo selection is far better now than then.

Are you running it in a long or short action?

 

[Steel head]

Are you running it in a long or short action?

Short

 

[Tokay444]

Short

How much powder are you cramming in and still fitting in a short action mag?

 

[Steel head]

How much powder are you cramming in and still fitting in a short action mag?

With 140’s 44 grains of H4350 is totally safe at 90+ degrees at 2830 fps, I’ve been a good bit further than that without hitting pressure.
Getting 2800 with 147’s was easy and that wasn’t a hot load at all.
I’m almost at the point where H4831 would be a great option.
With a drop tube it probably would be but I’m lazy.

I am using roomy Winchester brass.

I’m not going for big speeds, just decent speeds that aren’t temperamental at all.
During the winter and really high humidity condensation on the rounds still don’t give me fits.
A friend pushing his 6.5CM hard locked up a bolt this winter with me because of that.
LOL!
I warned him!

 

[coldboremiracle]

WTF? IF we're talking ethical kills, why the fuck are we even discussing shots beyond 300 yards? There's what's possible an what's ethical. IMO, any shot beyond 300 yards is not ethical. You may be able, you may take it. But it's not ethical, it's sport. I don't give a shit if you do, just don't claim to be "ethical". You're pushing your limits and that's fine. But don't claim you're "ethical".

Color most of us unethical then, only a couple of the dozens of animals I've killed in the last decade or so were inside 300 yards, I guess I must just be lucky, over and over, year after year.
Almost the entirety of this forum stands as evidence against your argument, to the point that it would be wasteful to argue with your points. That's not to dismiss your argument, it's just not worth it.

 

[Tokay444]

Ah. I get 44 grains of H4350 in my Creed, but my node is 2850fps with 42.3 gr, and 140gr hybrids.

 

[Steel head]

Ah. I get 44 grains of H4350 in my Creed, but my node is 2850fps with 42.3 gr, and 140gr hybrids.

Yea
I don’t want to say how much I’ve stuffed in them before I got pressure because I’m not running a standard combo but it was a lot.
I could probably get some outrageous speeds with R26.
I’d love to know what my normal pressure is.
I recently retired 250 cases, 80% still held a primer at 42 firings but I did get a case head separation and I’m not dealing with any more of those.

What’s funny is I’m back at the first good 260 load I developed years ago with H4350 and Hornandy 140 BTHP’s
I do plan to try R16 with that bullet when I burn up my old jug of H4350.

 

[DJL2]

WTF? IF we're talking ethical kills, why the fuck are we even discussing shots beyond 300 yards? There's what's possible an what's ethical. IMO, any shot beyond 300 yards is not ethical. You may be able, you may take it. But it's not ethical, it's sport. I don't give a shit if you do, just don't claim to be "ethical". You're pushing your limits and that's fine. But don't claim you're "ethical".

Sir, while much has been said already, I’d like to point out a flaw in your logic. Sport hunting is determined by motivation - really, there are only two categories: sport and subsistence. Most folks, regardless of where the meat ends up, are hunting for sport. Said motivation has no bearing at all on whether the game is being taken ethically.

If ethical killing demands a high probability of wounding so substantial that it minimizes suffering and results in a quick, clean kill, that is skill and tool dependent more so than environment. Shots on running game, for example, can result in inhumane wounding/killing at close range - primarily an issue of skill. Shots when the caliber is poorly matched to the game (e.g. hunting Elk with a .243) make considerable demands of the shooter at any range - but does that make them inherently unethical? Is bow hunting inherently unethical (though quite sporting) because my duty pistol packs more killing power?

To reiterate - hunting for sport isn’t inherently unethical, it’s what the vast majority are doing. There are no shortage of issues to take up and discuss within the context of ethical killing. I respectfully submit that you missed the mark with your assessment.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I personally like the 6.5CM as it totally improved the 260 situation.
I got my 260 just before 6.5CM dropped and the component and factory ammo selection is far better now than then.

Personally I think it's a better round too... (am I allowed to say so in this thread?). A friend has one and a 6.5 CM - likes them both. I like his 260 better. Seems like the perfect mix of muzzle velocity, barrel life, and per-round cost efficiency.

 

[Steel head]

Personally I think it's a better round too... (am I allowed to say so in this thread?). A friend has one and a 6.5 CM - likes them both. I like his 260 better. Seems like the perfect mix of muzzle velocity, barrel life, and per-round cost efficiency.

 

[iceng]

I’m guessing you haven’t met many gunsmiths, or you’ve failed to notice how long it traditionally took to get a rifle built. They’re not exactly swimming with free time. Your ideals of what a gunsmith should be are far from reality.

Your right. I'm not exactly swimming with free time, but I always try my best to service my customers in the best way possible. If that involves me learning something new, then I'm all for it.
I also try to be up front with customers with time and expectations.

I've found that some 'smiths will perpetually go to shooting events and drum up business and be on a 6 month waiting list. I call them 3-day 'smiths. They drive to an event Friday, stand around all weekend, drive back Monday. They only work Tuesday to Thursday. I'm not innocent on attending shooting events. I do however compete and make a consiance effort to not do sales pitches and such. I'll answer questions and help where ever I can, (dropping a stage to help out someone to fix their gun), but I never try to push the business onto them.

Often I ask them to ring me during the week or email me. I'm there to shoot, not swing my dick.

 

[roamin]

The whole 300WM vs 6.5 Creedmoor comparison is stupid to begin with. A long action belted mag compared to a short action round. Stupid.

If you don't think there wasn't more being said there than just a comparison of the two then you're missing alot.

 

[-Time-]

Math. Time and distance specifically. There's many other contributors to mention like wind, etc. that are completely out of your control. The time/distance is controllable but the time after the bullet exits the barrel is not.

And yes, I imagine it is fluid to an extent.

What tof do you set your limit at? How does wind influence your decision to shoot? What other factors?

I’ve never really sat down to think about the specific limits I would set for myself, so I’m curious about yours.

 

[Supersubes]

Your right. I'm not exactly swimming with free time, but I always try my best to service my customers in the best way possible. If that involves me learning something new, then I'm all for it.
I also try to be up front with customers with time and expectations.

I've found that some 'smiths will perpetually go to shooting events and drum up business and be on a 6 month waiting list. I call them 3-day 'smiths. They drive to an event Friday, stand around all weekend, drive back Monday. They only work Tuesday to Thursday. I'm not innocent on attending shooting events. I do however compete and make a consiance effort to not do sales pitches and such. I'll answer questions and help where ever I can, (dropping a stage to help out someone to fix their gun), but I never try to push the business onto them.

Often I ask them to ring me during the week or email me. I'm there to shoot, not swing my dick.

My point is for most gunsmiths, learning and pushing forward, and being on the cutting edge, isn’t something they just do. The work is based upon what the customer is bringing, and experimenting on customer jobs isn’t smart. My mentor never got out to shoot. Super talented, but he was gunsmithing to put food on the table, there just wasn’t room for anything else. There’s a ton of modern things he’s totally unaware of. He’s not the only one like that I know, and likely more are that way than not. I do it as a side gig, so I can take in as little work as I like, and work as slow as I like.

 

[Dthomas3523]

WTF? IF we're talking ethical kills, why the fuck are we even discussing shots beyond 300 yards? There's what's possible an what's ethical. IMO, any shot beyond 300 yards is not ethical. You may be able, you may take it. But it's not ethical, it's sport. I don't give a shit if you do, just don't claim to be "ethical". You're pushing your limits and that's fine. But don't claim you're "ethical".

Ethical is not defined by a universal definition. It is a sum of the totality of the circumstances.There are some 300yd shots that aren’t ethical and there are some 800yd shots that are ethical

If a very experienced shooter/hunter is sitting prone with his 6.5cm with a constant 5mph breeze on an animal casually grazing.....this can be a very ethical shot with close to 100% kill.

That same shooter at 300 with an animal quartering away with only a small window to make an impact with swirling left to right tailwinds? Not so ethical.

While your personal comfort level of what’s ethical may be 300yds, you shouldn’t extend that to others who may have more skill and experience. Pushing their limits might be 1200+ or more (especially with larger bullets).

 

[Tokay444]

Repost.

 

[Bolty]

There is paper and there is real world, for PRS ect shooting 6.5 all day and picking of anyone 800 plus out. For hunting or well less then desirable raiders that are going to raid me in the apocalypse there is my .308 for 800 and in. Now I did not say 6.5 is not a lethal round but if this first video doesn't say something then ...... watch the next with the caveat. Depends on what your shooting at weather I would use the .308 or the 6.5. They both have there strengths and weaknesses. Both very lethal as is any bullet.




Now if you notice, the 308 is in a AR, while the 6.5 creed is in a bolt, advantage to the bolt action. Also the AR barrel is 2 inches shorter, if I remember 16 for AR, 18 for bolt action, meaning the Bolt action in 6.5 should have had more punch. Now they where not shooting the same grain bullet though. Just food for thought . Also for someone in the middle of no where, I wouldnt be shooting fools 1000 yards out, I would wait till there a little closer, i want shots to the back of the head as they are running away after the first head pops like a zit. Then again a chest with small hole then larger exit hole is cool to.




While I personally want a .308, I will also build a 6.5 creed after. The little kid in me has always wanted his .308 so he will get it. The only advantage I see to the .308 is the barrel will probly last longer, other then that pick one or both, got shoot both and have fun.

 

[DangerRanger]

Lord beer me strength

 

[MarinePMI]

I think folks forget the other thing that helped the CM gain popularity, was that the load data used to be on the box, so people could recreate the same ammo if desired. Then people started whining about being 20fps off and Hornady said screw it, and went back to non canister powder loads.

As to 300+ yd shots being unethical...hunt prong horn much? Just saying, shots on speed goats generally start at 300 and go up from there...

 

[iceng]

My point is for most gunsmiths, learning and pushing forward, and being on the cutting edge, isn’t something they just do. The work is based upon what the customer is bringing, and experimenting on customer jobs isn’t smart. My mentor never got out to shoot. Super talented, but he was gunsmithing to put food on the table, there just wasn’t room for anything else. There’s a ton of modern things he’s totally unaware of. He’s not the only one like that I know, and likely more are that way than not. I do it as a side gig, so I can take in as little work as I like, and work as slow as I like.

I completely agree to never experiment on customers firearms, UNLESS they want you to. I've had (and I'm sure you and your mentor have also) lots of custom odd-ball wild cats requested, and had to try and sort out feeding, ejection, or some other issue. Yeahs ago I did a job for a stroke sufferer who still wanted to shoot pistols, who couldn't use one arm properly. Have another customer in a wheel chair, who still wants to compete. Had to rig up some interesting ideas on rifles for him.

PRS style shooting brings new and wonderful ideas with shooter who have invented something they want made, or modified.

As previously said, just being willing to learn is a bonus. Look at the 6gt gay tiger. Developed by a 'smith, to fulfil a purpose. If someone can teach me a way to do the same quality job faster, or a better result for the customer, then I'm gonna learn it rather than "stick to the old methods". I think that's what this whole thread is about. Many years ago the flint lock shooters complained and moaned about the percussion cap as being lazy, and then the smokeless metallic cartridge came out, many adopted it and a bunch of old geezers scoffed at it. Let's not forget about glass scopes. I legit had a conversation with a TR shooter about 2 years ago and challenged me to come out and shoot with him, soon as I learn to shoot and "loose the training wheels" (scope). I said not a problem, as long as he doesn't use a straight-jacket vest.
I've never shot with him.

 

[-Time-]

There is paper and there is real world, for PRS ect shooting 6.5 all day and picking of anyone 800 plus out. For hunting or well less then desirable raiders that are going to raid me in the apocalypse there is my .308 for 800 and in. Now I did not say 6.5 is not a lethal round but if this first video doesn't say something then ...... watch the next with the caveat. Depends on what your shooting at weather I would use the .308 or the 6.5. They both have there strengths and weaknesses. Both very lethal as is any bullet.




Now if you notice, the 308 is in a AR, while the 6.5 creed is in a bolt, advantage to the bolt action. Also the AR barrel is 2 inches shorter, if I remember 16 for AR, 18 for bolt action, meaning the Bolt action in 6.5 should have had more punch. Now they where not shooting the same grain bullet though. Just food for thought . Also for someone in the middle of no where, I wouldnt be shooting fools 1000 yards out, I would wait till there a little closer, i want shots to the back of the head as they are running away after the first head pops like a zit. Then again a chest with small hole then larger exit hole is cool to.




While I personally want a .308, I will also build a 6.5 creed after. The little kid in me has always wanted his .308 so he will get it. The only advantage I see to the .308 is the barrel will probly last longer, other then that pick one or both, got shoot both and have fun.

I think you’ll find that the same shot placement with either of these bullets will kill game just as dead.

I’d also like to see the test redone at 800 yards, where the .308 is carrying 300 less FPS, and 40ft-lbs less energy (with a mil more drop). I have a feeling results wouldn’t be the same.

I don’t think the 6.5 is any sort of wonder cartridge, and .308 has been killing shit for a long time, but if the OP intends to use a round for long distance terminal performance, shooting gel blocks (or sheet metal lol) at point blank is meaningless.

Also in the first video the AR is in 6.5, and I’d put a cunt hairs more worth in the first video than the second. At least they got some sort of gel to shoot at. Did sheet metal dude even mention what bullet they were using?

 

[coldboremiracle]

I Just remembered this, here are three cow elk we took last winter shooting 6.5Cm and one of them with a 260. They were 475 and 520 yards, the only one who didn't drop dead was hit with the 260, but dont get your panties bunched up as I mean no profanity towards the Lord's preferred caliber. It was simply a slightly different impact, and she died in seconds as did the others. The 6.5CM was shooting 122 gr bullets from @bohem 's Patriot Valley Arms. This is purely anecdotal for those who are interested:

 

[Steel head]

I Just remembered this, here are three cow elk we took last winter shooting 6.5Cm and one of them with a 260. They were 475 and 520 yards, the only one who didn't drop dead was hit with the 260, but dont get your panties bunched up as I mean no profanity towards the Lord's preferred caliber. It was simply a slightly different impact, and she died in seconds as did the others. The 6.5CM was shooting 122 gr bullets from @bohem 's Patriot Valley Arms. This is purely anecdotal for those who are interested:

Those are reasonable distances.
Thankfully you didn’t bad mouth 260 or I’d have to find you and pinch a loaf on your door step.

 

[supercorndogs]

I love it. Elk are so hard to kill bra bra bra. Thats when I know someone hasn't hunted them much.

I think folks forget the other thing that helped the CM gain popularity, was that the load data used to be on the box, so people could recreate the same ammo if desired. Then people started whining about being 20fps off and Hornady said screw it, and went back to non canister powder loads.

As to 300+ yd shots being unethical...hunt prong horn much? Just saying, shots on speed goats generally start at 300 and go up from there...

Wouldn't it be amazing to have a set of eyeballs like they do.

 

[Steel head]

I think folks forget the other thing that helped the CM gain popularity, was that the load data used to be on the box, so people could recreate the same ammo if desired. Then people started whining about being 20fps off and Hornady said screw it, and went back to non canister powder loads.

OMG!
Those threads were almost daily like what bipod should I get is now.

 

[RRW]

How? Any ethical shot taken, regardless of distance, would ask "What if I miss?". What happens if you miss at 300 yards? A "miss" meaning not a clean shot but a wounding shot.

Really, "it can be done ethically past 300" is not an answer. It's an opinion.

If you use that rationale you shouldn't be hunting at any distance, a "What if I miss?" can happen at 75 m just as much as 300 m or any distance for that matter.

 

[pmclaine]

Who is getting shot by anything and still motivated to press the attack?

In the SHTF situation you describe if the band of marauders starts taking accurate fire from your ranch house at distance I think they are going to decide to go to another ranch and it wont matter if its 8,7,6 or 5 mm of some flavor they have coming their way.

The ability to be accurate with what you are shooting is what matters against people looking to be pirates.

Pirates will find easier prey if you convince them to do so.

That philosophy might change if the motivations move beyond just privateering.

If 6mm is "controversial" why does our mil find it pretty standard to kill people more motivated than pirates with 5mm class bullets?

Granted that example has its "controversy" usually promoting 6mm as the solution but I think among those guys that have relied on 5mm to secure their lives at those distances that are the most concerning/typical accurate 5mm will solve the problem.

Get a well built rifle that you can find a regular supply of ammo for and the training to shoot it well the caliber wont be that big an issue.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Thankfully you didn’t bad mouth 260 or I’d have to find you and pinch a loaf on your door step.

I was a 260 guy before the CM was a tingle in Hornady's balls. Still am, but the 6.5CM is still a handy and inexpensive little cartridge to shoot, so I do.

 

[jbailey]

I Just remembered this, here are three cow elk we took last winter shooting 6.5Cm and one of them with a 260. They were 475 and 520 yards, the only one who didn't drop dead was hit with the 260, but dont get your panties bunched up as I mean no profanity towards the Lord's preferred caliber. It was simply a slightly different impact, and she died in seconds as did the others. The 6.5CM was shooting 122 gr bullets from @bohem 's Patriot Valley Arms. This is purely anecdotal for those who are interested:

Wow, I loved that video. That AO is some super tough terrain, nice job operating in it. Just moving in those conditions, up hill in that snow, let alone moving a dead animal, is only for the strong.

So, if you don't mind giving us your opinion, what are your thoughts on the PVA solid hunting bullets? External ballistics and terminal ballistics?

 

[glefos]

I can’t stand when a 400 yard shot is considered unethical while bow hunters walk around chucking sticks at them.

It's settled. I'm now referring to bow hunters as "stick chuckers". Hahahahahaha

 

[Tokay444]

I Just remembered this, here are three cow elk we took last winter shooting 6.5Cm and one of them with a 260. They were 475 and 520 yards, the only one who didn't drop dead was hit with the 260, but dont get your panties bunched up as I mean no profanity towards the Lord's preferred caliber. It was simply a slightly different impact, and she died in seconds as did the others. The 6.5CM was shooting 122 gr bullets from @bohem 's Patriot Valley Arms. This is purely anecdotal for those who are interested:

You fucked up bro. Totally unethical. You went past the 300 yard wall... :|

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I Just remembered this, here are three cow elk we took last winter shooting 6.5Cm and one of them with a 260. They were 475 and 520 yards, the only one who didn't drop dead was hit with the 260, but dont get your panties bunched up as I mean no profanity towards the Lord's preferred caliber. It was simply a slightly different impact, and she died in seconds as did the others. The 6.5CM was shooting 122 gr bullets from @bohem 's Patriot Valley Arms. This is purely anecdotal for those who are interested:

that looks fun!playing in the mountains with friends, guns, and a dog ,and on top of that you get some elk! great shooting

 

[coldboremiracle]

You fucked up bro. Totally unethical. You went past the 300 yard wall... :|

May Fred Bear and Craig Boddington have mercy on my errant soul...

 

[coldboremiracle]

So, if you don't mind giving us your opinion, what are your thoughts on the PVA solid hunting bullets? External ballistics and terminal ballistics?

I've shot a bunch of different PVA solids, and all of them are very forgiving with seating depth, and pressure. They are also in my experience very efficient, perhaps even more than Josh gives them credit for. It seems like every time I dope for them they are a little higher than expected, they dont mind the cold mountain wind, and they hold onto their energy very well. The video does not give the wind full credit, it was blowing so hard my fingers wouldn't work, and I had to tuck them into a very warm spot for about 5 minutes to get em back. It was hard to see and breathe, but my wind hold was minimal.
My full writeup is right here, with pictures, descriptions and of course my extremely biased opinion.

 

[Bolty]

I think you’ll find that the same shot placement with either of these bullets will kill game just as dead.

I’d also like to see the test redone at 800 yards, where the .308 is carrying 300 less FPS, and 40ft-lbs less energy (with a mil more drop). I have a feeling results wouldn’t be the same.

I don’t think the 6.5 is any sort of wonder cartridge, and .308 has been killing shit for a long time, but if the OP intends to use a round for long distance terminal performance, shooting gel blocks (or sheet metal lol) at point blank is meaningless.

Also in the first video the AR is in 6.5, and I’d put a cunt hairs more worth in the first video than the second. At least they got some sort of gel to shoot at. Did sheet metal dude even mention what bullet they were using?

I never said it would not kill game dead, I post those videos to just demonstrate how similar and different the rounds are. Hell I can kill a deer with my Springfield .40S&W if i got close enough. A bullet is a bullet and will cause damage or death. This argument is a mute point with a skilled shooter that is use to shooting either round or both rounds. With the 6.5 due to lower flight and LESS WIND push on the round, it is easier to adjust for shots taken at longer ranges but people still miss. Its not a magic bullet and I dont get why everyone gets there panties all wadded up. It is a fact that there more accurate for competition, hell I plan to shot PRS, going to start with .308 ( better barrel life) then if or when I decide I should move to shooting 6.5 creed then i will. Till then the little child in me that always wanted his .308 bolt action that never got it, well gets it soon.

Does this make you feel better, because I said at the end of my post, choose one and go have fun, i have no skin in this cat, just showing some fun interesting things.




Then there is this......... take it how you want.......



Hell why are we even talking 6.5 vs .308, they all suck compared to ........

Barrett M82A1 .50 BMG 29" Barrel 10-Rounds Flip-Up Sights

The Barrett M82A1 offers reliable performance in a durable and hard-hitting rifle platform. It comes chambered in 50BMG with a 29 inch barrel. Features include flip-up sights, a bipod, and a 10 round magazine. Buy guns online for the best price form GrabAGun today!

grabagun.com

 

[supercorndogs]

 

[hereinaz]

yawn......

 

[Steel head]

yawn......

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Color most of us unethical then, only a couple of the dozens of animals I've killed in the last decade or so were inside 300 yards, I guess I must just be lucky, over and over, year after year.
Almost the entirety of this forum stands as evidence against your argument, to the point that it would be wasteful to argue with your points. That's not to dismiss your argument, it's just not worth it.

I never said it couldn't be done. In fact I stated it has been done and will be done again. I also never said you couldn't do it. I simply stated that it's unethical for reasons I've since posted. It's quite simple. Once the bullet leaves the barrel everything is out of your control. The more time that bullet takes to reach its target, the more outside factors can influence the bullet. To each his own. Only you can decide what's right for you.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I simply stated that it's unethical for reasons I've since posted.

Your reasons are wrong, that's been made clear several times just in this thread. I do agree with to each his own, you do you. Just dont tell others they are unethical because they dont meet your standard. As you said, only I can decide whats right for me, not you.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

What tof do you set your limit at? How does wind influence your decision to shoot? What other factors?

I’ve never really sat down to think about the specific limits I would set for myself, so I’m curious about yours.

Clearly I support 300 yards give or take. Wind is a huge factor. Terrain, slope/angle, back stop, weather, and many others.

The fact you've never considered it is a bit confusing and concerning.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Your reasons are wrong, that's been made clear several times just in this thread. I do agree with to each his own, you do you. Just dont tell others they are unethical because they dont meet your standard. As you said, only I can decide whats right for me, not you.

How can it be wrong? You can't decide what I believe. Ethics, as evidenced in this thread, is fluid and subjective.

 

[DJL2]

I never said it would not kill game dead, I post those videos to just demonstrate how similar and different the rounds are. Hell I can kill a deer with my Springfield .40S&W if i got close enough. A bullet is a bullet and will cause damage or death. This argument is a mute point with a skilled shooter that is use to shooting either round or both rounds. With the 6.5 due to lower flight and LESS WIND push on the round, it is easier to adjust for shots taken at longer ranges but people still miss. Its not a magic bullet and I dont get why everyone gets there panties all wadded up. It is a fact that there more accurate for competition, hell I plan to shot PRS, going to start with .308 ( better barrel life) then if or when I decide I should move to shooting 6.5 creed then i will. Till then the little child in me that always wanted his .308 bolt action that never got it, well gets it soon.

Does this make you feel better, because I said at the end of my post, choose one and go have fun, i have no skin in this cat, just showing some fun interesting things.

FWIW:
Re-read your post, then compare the phrasing and vocabulary you use to that you can find elsewhere on this site or others concerned with long range shooting. This last post and your prior post smack of a relatively young individual that has just enough knowledge to get into a conversation they're not equipped to have. You might argue that precision begins with language. That's well beyond basic grammar, which kicks all of us in the junk from time to time.

 

[coldboremiracle]

The fact you've never considered it is a bit confusing and concerning.

I try to consider everything, everytime I shoot. The funny thing is, I dont remember you being there for any of them, so how would you know?

 

[coldboremiracle]

How can it be wrong? You can't decide what I believe. Ethics, as evidenced in this thread, is fluid and subjective.

Your beliefs are yours, and your welcome to it. Your argument is wrong.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I consider everything, everytime I shoot. The funny thing is, I dont remember you being there for any of them, so how would you know?

Wasn't replying to you. Not sure why you needed to respond.

Your beliefs are yours, and your welcome to it. Your argument is wrong.

But it's not. ?

 

[jbailey]

@coldboremiracle
thanks for that great AAR. I always enjoy the well thought out and presented material this site offers me access to. And wow that AO is beautiful - and fierce.

As for the troll on this thread, just don't feed him folks.

 

[coldboremiracle]

But it's not.

Thats okay, keep believing in yourself.

 

[Tokay444]

moot* point.