Why the Controversey over Creedmoor 6.5?

[Ledzep]

So if you take a high quality match barrel and good match or ELD-X bullets, the system is typically capable of .6-.9" groups locked in an accuracy fixture. I'm not talking about 5 shot groups, I'm talking about 50-100 shot groups. That's the system itself. A human shooter makes those 50-100 shot groups go to .95-1.2". Typical muzzle velocity spreads are in the 40-70fps range over 50-100 rounds. Let's take a 143 ELD-X at 2800fps, kinda optimistic on velocity. 1 degree cant error, and 2mph crosswind error on a 12" wide, 9" tall target gives hit probability over 95% to ~550yd. With a 5mph crosswind error it comes back to ~500yd. With 8mph wind error (very gusty day) it comes in to 400-450yd.

Obviously there are other things at play. Gusty days cause more aiming error, terrain can cause wind to induce elevation error, etc.. etc... Anyway, that's my contribution to the ethics argument. I think 300yd is cutting it a little short, but I do call it quits myself over 550yd.

 

[Tokay444]

I never said it couldn't be done. In fact I stated it has been done and will be done again. I also never said you couldn't do it. I simply stated that it's unethical for reasons I've since posted. It's quite simple. Once the bullet leaves the barrel everything is out of your control. The more time that bullet takes to reach its target, the more outside factors can influence the bullet. To each his own. Only you can decide what's right for you.

You should listen to the Long Range Pursuit podcast by Gunwerks. Specifically episode 50. The speak about this whole 300 yard dogma attitude a bit in it.

 

[308pirate]

There is paper and there is real world, for PRS ect shooting 6.5 all day and picking of anyone 800 plus out. For hunting or well less then desirable raiders that are going to raid me in the apocalypse there is my .308 for 800 and in. Now I did not say 6.5 is not a lethal round but if this first video doesn't say something then ...... watch the next with the caveat. Depends on what your shooting at weather I would use the .308 or the 6.5. They both have there strengths and weaknesses. Both very lethal as is any bullet.




Now if you notice, the 308 is in a AR, while the 6.5 creed is in a bolt, advantage to the bolt action. Also the AR barrel is 2 inches shorter, if I remember 16 for AR, 18 for bolt action, meaning the Bolt action in 6.5 should have had more punch. Now they where not shooting the same grain bullet though. Just food for thought . Also for someone in the middle of no where, I wouldnt be shooting fools 1000 yards out, I would wait till there a little closer, i want shots to the back of the head as they are running away after the first head pops like a zit. Then again a chest with small hole then larger exit hole is cool to.




While I personally want a .308, I will also build a 6.5 creed after. The little kid in me has always wanted his .308 so he will get it. The only advantage I see to the .308 is the barrel will probly last longer, other then that pick one or both, got shoot both and have fun.

Both videos are bullshit.

Did you know that Sweden and Norway used a 6.5 mm rifle cartridge for their standard issue infantry rifle for about 50 years? Did you know that hunters in both countries kill game up to the size of moose by the ton every year still, mostly using the 6.5X55 or similar?

 

[Tokay444]

My guess is Jeffeeffee here has never actually taken a shot at 300 yards or beyond. Or maybe he has, and that's why he knows HE can't shoot game past 300. Scary to ponder.

 

[Rob01]

 

[Bolty]

FWIW:
Re-read your post, then compare the phrasing and vocabulary you use to that you can find elsewhere on this site or others concerned with long range shooting. This last post and your prior post smack of a relatively young individual that has just enough knowledge to get into a conversation they're not equipped to have. You might argue that precision begins with language. That's well beyond basic grammar, which kicks all of us in the junk from time to time.

Sent you a PM, maybe next time you respond to my post while I will admit, inaccurate with my vocabulary has a purpose. While I do understand that 99 percent of the people on here know I was using the incorrect terms, I had a reason for what I posted. Some of it was sarcasm and while I am not use to this forum as you can see by my profile and feeling my way around, you sir could have simply PMed me and stated what you said and kindly asked me to edit my post since it offended you and others.

In short hope your vocabulary policing has upped your ego, it certainly has not done anything for me. You are also correct in not knowing who I am and what experience I have with rifles period. While I admit I never have BUILT/ASSEMBLED ( dont want to offend anyone hear again with inaccurate terms) a custom bolt action rifle, does not mean I do not have experience with them in the least. Also you did not have all the info I have sent you in the PM about the OP, in short next time would be very nice if you sir would take a tactical pause, find out the situation, then if there is warrant correct the issue and resume mission. In short sir your sniping of my posts ect are way off and you need to correct your WIND DRIFT/DEFLECTION 3 mils right and get on target.

 

[Bolty]

Both videos are bullshit.

Did you know that Sweden and Norway used a 6.5 mm rifle cartridge for their standard issue infantry rifle for about 50 years? Did you know that hunters in both countries kill game up to the size of moose by the ton every year still, mostly using the 6.5X55 or similar?

Yes and it goes further back then that, back to WW1, I posted a video of a guy using same rifle, chambered in .308 and 6.5 for the purpose of educating people on the history of the 6.5 mm. Then again lots of people think its new and better then sliced bread lol.

6.5×52mm Carcano - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here you go, so you dont need to look it up. Enjoy

 

[Bolty]

View attachment 7298520

Should have taken the red pill.......

 

[308pirate]

My guess is Jeffeeffee here has never actually taken a shot at 300 yards or beyond. Or maybe he has, and that's why he knows HE can't shoot game past 300. Scary to ponder.

When someone is being an absolutist about shooting ethics, they're most likely projecting.

 

[DangerRanger]

 

[Bolty]

You should listen to the Long Range Pursuit podcast by Gunwerks. Specifically episode 50. The speak about this whole 300 yard dogma attitude a bit in it.

Let me break this down real fast, for ya, while I dont look down on someone shooting game past 300 yards, there are times and places for it, a lot of hunters consider that just killing, not hunting. A lot of hunters consider giving the game a chance and to hone there STALKING skills, just like the games main predator would stalk them. So yes some of the hunting community does look down and call in unethical, not only for the "hunting" aspect but also more chance to just wound the animal then a quick kill. The more people shoot at those distances and promote it the more you will get crappy shooters doing that same and wounding the game rather then a clean kill.

I havent hunted in like 20 years, plan to start next year, while I do remember stalking game, it was fun, challenging and I feel respectful to the game. While I do feel that shooting game at long ranges is not fun, nor is it fair to the game, there have been times when I have seen (not in person) that a shot longer then 300 yards is taken and warranted.

I do not and will not condone most shots taken as I (my opinion) do not consider that hunting. Now if your someone that lives off the land alone and that is your main food source, then yes, buy all means take a longer shot, I dont want you starving, but just to get your kill because your tag is about to run out isnt a reason to just wound an animal.

I think that is his view, I am only guessing, I could be wrong.

 

[Rob01]

Looks like someone is trying to get their 100 posts. Lol

 

[spife7980]

Let me break this down real fast, for ya, while I dont look down on someone shooting game past 300 yards, there are times and places for it, a lot of hunters consider that just killing, not hunting. A lot of hunters consider giving the game a chance and to hone there STALKING skills, just like the games main predator would stalk them. So yes some of the hunting community does look down and call in unethical, not only for the "hunting" aspect but also more chance to just wound the animal then a quick kill. The more people shoot at those distances and promote it the more you will get crappy shooters doing that same and wounding the game rather then a clean kill.

I havent hunted in like 20 years, plan to start next year, while I do remember stalking game, it was fun, challenging and I feel respectful to the game. While I do feel that shooting game at long ranges is not fun, nor is it fair to the game, there have been times when I have seen (not in person) that a shot longer then 300 yards is taken and warranted.

I do not and will not condone most shots taken as I (my opinion) do not consider that hunting. Now if your someone that lives off the land alone and that is your main food source, then yes, buy all means take a longer shot, I dont want you starving, but just to get your kill because your tag is about to run out isnt a reason to just wound an animal.

I think that is his view, I am only guessing, I could be wrong.

 

[Ledzep]

The biggest thing that pops up in my mind is all of the "gimme" KYL rack plates I've missed at 350-450yd. With warm up and practice on previous stages no less...

 

[-Time-]

FWIW:
Re-read your post, then compare the phrasing and vocabulary you use to that you can find elsewhere on this site or others concerned with long range shooting. This last post and your prior post smack of a relatively young individual that has just enough knowledge to get into a conversation they're not equipped to have. You might argue that precision begins with language. That's well beyond basic grammar, which kicks all of us in the junk from time to time.

Indeed it does. Nothing wrong with being inexperienced and reading on this site, there’s a wealth of knowledge passed around for those willing to listen. Bolty if you do find yourself tempted to post in a thread where you don’t have experience, it’s probably better to listen, or ask a question as to why something is the way it is instead of trying to join the conversation with false knowledge. The vast majority of the site is willing to share what they know so you don’t make the same mistakes we did.

You posted those videos in a thread about the best cartridge (between .308 and 6.5cm) for long distance terminal performance on man sized targets. It’s only fair that your post was examined in that light.

I, and many many of us here have been there and done that the PRS with .308 thing, and found that 6.5cm (or the 6mms) does it better. It’s simply a better choice for the application. You’re more then welcome to shoot whatever caliber your heart desires, it’s no skin off my back. We’re all here just trying to point out that if the goal is x, y is the best caliber for it. Doesn’t mean you have to use it, by all means go for whatever you want. If you hopped on here and said “my only goal is to shoot tiny 100 yard groups, what caliber should I choose?” you’d get A lot of 6mm br, 22br, etc suggestions, and the justifications for why they’re a good fit. If you then came back and said “I bought a .50bmg because bigger is better right” you’re certainly entitled to think that, but you’d get your pp slapped for being a dumbass.

 

[Bolty]

Really, thats all you got, week shot group, go back and zero.

 

[kriller134]

I don't hunt, so please excuse my ignorance, but why 300 yards? Seems like an arbitrary number to me. Wouldn't a 500 yard shot with zero wind be more ethical than a 300 yard shot with 20mph wind and vice versa? I would think it's all dependent on the conditions at the time. Also skill is obviously a huge factor too.

 

[-Time-]

Clearly I support 300 yards give or take. Wind is a huge factor. Terrain, slope/angle, back stop, weather, and many others.

The fact you've never considered it is a bit confusing and concerning.

You’ve clearly misread what I’ve said. I’m asking for the specific standards you hold yourself too. You named time of flight, I assumed you had an actual number that you held yourself too, given that you keep mentioning math and specifics.

I consider the sum of the factors that influence my shot, I don’t have hard numbers for each metric. From the prone or seated with a tripod and a low wind, I’d take a shot on a broadside deer at 500 yards any day of the week. Take that same situation, but change seated to standing, low to high winds, a quartering deer instead of broadside, etc and the likelihood of me taking that shot is reduced.

You talked as if you had actual numbers that you based your decision and ethical standards on, which is what I was curious about.

 

[Tokay444]

These guys say you just sound like a bitch who can't shoot.
Lots of 6.5mm in here too.

 

[Tokay444]

You’ve clearly misread what I’ve said. I’m asking for the specific standards you hold yourself too. You named time of flight, I assumed you had an actual number that you held yourself too, given that you keep mentioning math and specifics.

I consider the sum of the factors that influence my shot, I don’t have hard numbers for each metric. From the prone or seated with a tripod and a low wind, I’d take a shot on a broadside deer at 500 yards any day of the week. Take that same situation, but change seated to standing, low to high winds, a quartering deer instead of broadside, etc and the likelihood of me taking that shot is reduced.

You talked as if you had actual numbers that you based your decision and ethical standards on, which is what I was curious about.

No, he said it's not math, it's math, remember?

 

[Tokay444]

Every single shot listed in that last video was well in excess of 300 yards. All but one of the shots listed was with a 6.5mm bullet, and every single one dropped in their tracks.
How are those unethical kills?

 

[308pirate]

Let me break this down real fast, for ya, while I dont look down on someone shooting game past 300 yards, there are times and places for it, a lot of hunters consider that just killing, not hunting. A lot of hunters consider giving the game a chance and to hone there STALKING skills, just like the games main predator would stalk them. So yes some of the hunting community does look down and call in unethical, not only for the "hunting" aspect but also more chance to just wound the animal then a quick kill. The more people shoot at those distances and promote it the more you will get crappy shooters doing that same and wounding the game rather then a clean kill.

I havent hunted in like 20 years, plan to start next year, while I do remember stalking game, it was fun, challenging and I feel respectful to the game. While I do feel that shooting game at long ranges is not fun, nor is it fair to the game, there have been times when I have seen (not in person) that a shot longer then 300 yards is taken and warranted.

I do not and will not condone most shots taken as I (my opinion) do not consider that hunting. Now if your someone that lives off the land alone and that is your main food source, then yes, buy all means take a longer shot, I dont want you starving, but just to get your kill because your tag is about to run out isnt a reason to just wound an animal.

I think that is his view, I am only guessing, I could be wrong.

Do you think that shooting running big game with a rifle is ethical?

 

[kriller134]

Every single shot listed in that last video was well in excess of 300 yards. All but one of the shots listed was with a 6.5mm bullet, and every single one dropped in their tracks.
How are those unethical kills?

Umm because it’s past 300 yards ??

 

[Tokay444]

Umm because it’s past 300 yards ??

Oh yes, right.

 

[308pirate]

I don't hunt, so please excuse my ignorance, but why 300 yards? Seems like an arbitrary number to me. Wouldn't a 500 yard shot with zero wind be more ethical than a 300 yard shot with 20mph wind and vice versa? I would think it's all dependent on the conditions at the time. Also skill is obviously a huge factor too.

Because hunting "ethics" were thought up by fudds a long time ago when optics sucked, ammo wasn't as capable as it is today, and most fudds couldn't shoot worth a shit.

And while optics and ammo are much more capable now, most fudds still can't hit their own ass with a paddle.

 

[Ledzep]

These guys say you just sound like a bitch who can't shoot.
Lots of 6.5mm in here too.

What's the deal at 1:00? Rolling a carcass off a cliff face for B-roll?

Here's shot placement for the ones I could see. Most are okay, a few are questionable. Lots of spine and front shoulder shots.

You can cut it however you want. But if you run realistic numbers through a hit percentage calculator, 1st shot hit % slumps off hard past 600-700yd in most conditions, slumps off hard after 350-400yd in bad conditions.

The 750+yd shots IMHO are all a gamble. I'm not saying lottery odds. I'm saying, 80/20, 70/30, 50/50 maybe. Even if you count a gut shot or an immobilizing shot the odds aren't high enough that I feel comfy with it. Easy enough to test on a cold bore 10" plate every time you practice. Hell, just look at your PRS/NRL match scores or hit % within 800yd. Here's another one, shoot 20 rounds on a chrono, take the highest and lowest velocity and see what kind of vertical spread it has at 850, 1000, 1240yd. Just food for thought.

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Fucking public land hunt once and you'll see that an alarming percentage of the morons out there can't hit a deer at 75yd with 5 shots... I do believe that A LOT of people have themselves convinced they and their gear are better than they really are, though.

 

[Bolty]

Because hunting "ethics" were thought up by fudds a long time ago when optics sucked, ammo wasn't as capable as it is today, and most fudds couldn't shoot worth a shit.

And while optics and ammo are much more capable now, most fudds still can't hit their own ass with a paddle.

Just because you can doesnt mean you should.

Ever heard of that quote ? Those "fudds" know why you dont take a 800 yard shot at an elk, just because you can. Simply put higher percentage of a kill shot then a wounding shot at closer range.

Wait, so let me ask you this smart guy, so lets say you got a 1/2 minute/inch rifle at a 100 yards then what do you have at 800 yards? It isnt 1/2 a minute/ inch. That gets bigger as ypu move out. There is no perfect shooting platform when your hunting. Look at the videos of Lowlight shooting, while he is very very good, he doesnt hit dead center every time. That is were morales and ethics come in. Hence just because you can doesnt mean you should.


You can post all the videos you want but they missed or worse, wounded more game then they have killed for that one video.

Lastly, you wound the game you shot at, next year a hunter comes out and gets the kill. Now the hide isnt perfect because some guy decided to take a 800 yard shot. Bullet still in there ect, or worse the games dies due to infection. Wonder how you would feel about that ? Just a couple simple questions for you to give us all answers to.

Just stating the over looked facts. Dont care to change if it changes your mind or not, but something to think about.

?????

 

[kriller134]

Let me break this down real fast, for ya, while I dont look down on someone shooting game past 300 yards, there are times and places for it, a lot of hunters consider that just killing, not hunting. A lot of hunters consider giving the game a chance and to hone there STALKING skills, just like the games main predator would stalk them. So yes some of the hunting community does look down and call in unethical, not only for the "hunting" aspect but also more chance to just wound the animal then a quick kill. The more people shoot at those distances and promote it the more you will get crappy shooters doing that same and wounding the game rather then a clean kill.

I havent hunted in like 20 years, plan to start next year, while I do remember stalking game, it was fun, challenging and I feel respectful to the game. While I do feel that shooting game at long ranges is not fun, nor is it fair to the game, there have been times when I have seen (not in person) that a shot longer then 300 yards is taken and warranted.

I do not and will not condone most shots taken as I (my opinion) do not consider that hunting. Now if your someone that lives off the land alone and that is your main food source, then yes, buy all means take a longer shot, I dont want you starving, but just to get your kill because your tag is about to run out isnt a reason to just wound an animal.

I think that is his view, I am only guessing, I could be wrong.

I think if you want to be respectful to the game, then you shouldn’t be using rifle. You should be just like a predator and stalk it and then rip it’s head off with your hands and teeth.

 

[Bolty]

I think if you want to be respectful to the game, then you shouldn’t be using rifle. You should be just like a predator and stalk it and then rip it’s head off with your hands and teeth.

Hmmmm maybe that should be law!!!

Now back to reality, so is that your argument against what is said, because you basically have nothing to say due to logic and facts. I know you got a better response, plus since you quated me, where are the answers to my question ?

 

[Lowlight]

On my range, the one in my videos, the guys there, have been getting the speed goats on the range beyond 800 yards with a single shot, DRT, for a while now.

The last one I know of, they ranged the pronghorn about 950 yards, backed up to 1125 or so, and smoked it with a single round

We have that area mapped to the Nth degree, there is not much we don't have zeroed in on out there

The animals hang around all day, even when we shoot they just chill, so when the season opens and everything is good, getting them is pretty easy.

There are tons of people I meet through the classes, who have missed inside 200 prior and then went out that next season and got their hits beyond 400, in many cases beyond 500. Training is a key element here.

Ego vs Training, many have too much ego not to try, others have the training to succeed.

 

[Lowlight]

Here is a good visual,

Both of these are a bit over 400 yards away, and these are small, but the plate just next to it's ear is 6" at 600 yards. maybe 8 inches, still a kill zone sized plate. I would take that shot on an animal this size.

As long as the energy is right, I think it is okay

A pro hunter took our class, shot this guy at 580 yards, his farthest ever

Not very big compared to an Elk or Moose,

Know your limitations

 

[wade2big]

These guys say you just sound like a bitch who can't shoot.
Lots of 6.5mm in here too.

Nobody makes videos of all their misses and bad shots. Just sayin. A thousand yard shot on an animal is stupid. The best shooters in the world cant put a bullet in an 8” circle on the first trigger pull every time at that range.

Know your limits. The lack of support, wind, terrain, distance, all play a part. This part we agree it seems.

 

[kriller134]

Hmmmm maybe that should be law!!!

Now back to reality, so is that your argument against what is said, because you basically have nothing to say due to logic and facts. I know you got a better response, plus since you quated me, where are the answers to my question ?

You’re the one waxing poetic about fairness and respect. Let me be very clear about this. I have nothing against hunting, but to say shooting an animal from hundreds of yards away is fair to the animal is a joke. You have an advantage and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have a lot of respect for someone who and provide food for their family. It’s not something I can do because I’m a pussy and don’t like blood and guts. My opinion is if you want to be “fair” to the animal, then go head to head with one.

 

[Lowlight]

You use the right rifle and scope combo and not sweat what you are walking with, the odds go way up.

most reference this based on a guy with a magnum rifle he shoots very infrequent, a sub par scope, and a shitty zero. No dope, poor fundamentals, the hunter list of faults is pretty long.

change those variables and the game changes quickly

 

[coldboremiracle]

Lastly, you wound the game you shot at, next year a hunter comes out and gets the kill. Now the hide isnt perfect because some guy decided to take a 800 yard shot. Bullet still in there ect, or worse the games dies due to infection. Wonder how you would feel about that?

That exact scenario happens everywhere, every year, at every distance. And since the majority of animals are probably shot at inside the magical 300 yards, I'd wager it happens more up close than out far. And its due to lack of skills and discipline as Frank mentioned.

 

[DangerRanger]

I thought this had made a turn for the better but it’s just some generic ass hunting ethics thread.

 

[tomcatfan]

I always love the hunting ethics debate. Shooting an animal and not dropping them dead in their track is just plain wrong, say the fudds.

Wait, what about archery hunting? Well that’s ok because it is harder to do. But what about the animal? I always ask the wrong questions...

 

[Bolty]

You’re the one waxing poetic about fairness and respect. Let me be very clear about this. I have nothing against hunting, but to say shooting an animal from hundreds of yards away is fair to the animal is a joke. You have an advantage and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have a lot of respect for someone who and provide food for their family. It’s not something I can do because I’m a pussy and don’t like blood and guts. My opinion is if you want to be “fair” to the animal, then go head to head with one.

Ok so is it fair to raise a cow and kill it so you can have beef in the store, is it fair that a pig or lamb is slaughtered every day from a farm so you can eat? Yes I have respect for the game out there, they live in harsher conditions then we do, provide for there young, protect them. I have respect for the animals and land. No I am not a tree huger, but at the same time, respect for the animal means you dont shoot outside your skill level. You dont wound an animal because you decide that your ego (as lowlight has stated) isnt going to get hurt this year because you went home empty last season.

Well when you tell the elk, deer ect to get rid of there antlers, the bears to get rid of there claws and all other animals to get rid of there weapons then I will go head to head with any animal. Till then they have there weapons and us humans have ours.

Lastly, why do you think hunters go hunting, yes its a sport and guys grunt and display there kills ect, but its also to provide for there families, part of hunting is skinning that game, taking the meat and processing it. Then putting it in the freezer for you to eat all year instead of that cow from the store. Make jerky out of it, all kinds of things. The hide is used for what ever you like, so nothing is wasted or should not be wasted. Head is taken and either mounted or taken down to the bone and saved.

 

[supercorndogs]

Their, there, they're.

 

[spife7980]

Ok so is it fair to raise a cow and kill it so you can have beef in the store, is it fair that a pig or lamb is slaughtered every day from a farm so you can eat? Yes I have respect for the game out there, they live in harsher conditions then we do, provide for there young, protect them. I have respect for the animals and land. No I am not a tree huger, but at the same time, respect for the animal means you dont shoot outside your skill level. You dont wound an animal because you decide that your ego (as lowlight has stated) isnt going to get hurt this year because you went home empty last season.

Well when you tell the elk, deer ect to get rid of there antlers, the bears to get rid of there claws and all other animals to get rid of there weapons then I will go head to head with any animal. Till then they have there weapons and us humans have ours.

Lastly, why do you think hunters go hunting, yes its a sport and guys grunt and display there kills ect, but its also to provide for there families, part of hunting is skinning that game, taking the meat and processing it. Then putting it in the freezer for you to eat all year instead of that cow from the store. Make jerky out of it, all kinds of things. The hide is used for what ever you like, so nothing is wasted or should not be wasted. Head is taken and either mounted or taken down to the bone and saved.

 

[DangerRanger]

The other day I watched my barn cat drag a field rat out into the driveway and then let it repeatedly get about 10 yards away and think it could escape then pounce on it and drag it back to the middle.

He did this for around 6 hours, it tried to sit him down and explain that’s not ethical and fair but he didn’t seem to care.

he finally killed it and then took a nap.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Chickentoast]

Just realized that the 147 eld-m and 208 eld-m are ballistic equivalents. Creed will push the 147 approx 150 fps faster than my lowliest 308 will push the 208, which mean differences of approx 1" of wind @ 500 yds and 4" of wind @ 1000 yds. Does the heavier projectile make up that difference in the wind? Don't know. My conclusion, however, is that 7mm is better than both. The lowly 7mm-08 running a 180 eld-m beats the 147 by ~10" of wind @ 1000. 284 Win or 280 ai running ~150 fps faster seem like the best all-rounders.

 

[hengehold]

I've been reading a lot, would like to get into long range shooting of some sort. Crazy I know but my underlying motivation is if things went south somehow, I could defend my ranch and family from a long ways away. Will never happen I know but it would give me great comfort to have a precision rifle on the wall knowing I am able to use it. In the meantime practicing will be a blast.

So, the 6.5 and 6 mm cartridges are very popular now. But some older guys on youtube say these target rounds are not suitable for hitting alive things. So if it came to it, would the 6.5 and 6 cartridges really be good for defense against bad guys? I read that the US Military is trying out 6.5 Creedmoor for its snipers. Are there different 6.5 Creedmoors with differently constructed bullets?

Obviously I'm a beginner, never had a centerfire yet. Any wisdom that might help me choose the right caliber for me would be appreciated.

Examples:

Real Gunsmith -- gotta respect this guy at least a little







GunBlue -- bit of a blowhard but knowledgeable sometimes
(go to 32:40)


But Hickock45 likes it:
https://www.full30.com/watch/MDA5NTc4/savage-model-10-ba-stealth-65-creedmoor (go to 17:25)

To answer your question, A 6.5 Creedmoor should be just fine for killing folks. A 6.5mm 140gr HPBT going 2800fps muzzle velocity will go through a 2x4 at 1,000yds. I don’t hunt so I can’t say how it reacts on impact with bone but I suspect that penetration is not a problem.

 

[Ledzep]

To answer your question, A 6.5 Creedmoor should be just fine for killing folks. A 6.5mm 140gr HPBT going 2800fps muzzle velocity will go through a 2x4 at 1,000yds. I don’t hunt so I can’t say how it reacts on impact with bone but I suspect that penetration is not a problem.

There was a guy last fall on here questioning why his 140 bthp didn't penetrate the shoulder on the antelope he shot at 450-500yd and get into the vitals... It's a lost cause arguing this shit on here because there's too many people that have gotten away with it for long enough and there are enough gun writers, videos, and even bullet makers pushing the idea of non-expanding BTHP bullets for hunting that it'll never go away. If the bullet pencils through "It's making a hole thru & thru for the animal to bleed out".... if it does anything between exploding on impact and leaving pieces of jacket in the offside hide after an 8" neck "It's delivering 100% of the energy to the animal!".

 

[coldboremiracle]

It's a lost cause arguing this shit on here because there's too many people that have gotten away with it for long enough and there are enough gun writers, videos, and even bullet makers pushing the idea of non-expanding BTHP bullets for hunting that it'll never go away. If the bullet pencils through "It's making a hole thru & thru for the animal to bleed out".... if it does anything between exploding on impact and leaving pieces of jacket in the offside hide after an 8" neck "It's delivering 100% of the energy to the animal!".

Thats because bullets do weird things sometimes. Which is why those who know say that shot placement is king, bullet, caliber, velocity etc. are secondary.

 

[glefos]

Attention! Attention! - New rule of engagement for snipers. No shooting bad guys past 300yds...it's unethical.

Equating ethics to an arbitrary shooting distance is hunting's version of virtue signaling. SJW of the hunting world.

 

[Steel head]

Attention! Attention! - New rule of engagement for snipers. No shooting bad guys past 300yds...it's unethical.

Equating ethics to an arbitrary shooting distance is hunting's version of virtue signaling. SJW of the hunting world.

Hunting for sport and war are entirely different.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I've found that for many hunters, including the 300yd crowd, ethics and accuracy envelopes depend greatly on the size of the antlers they see.

 

[Steel head]

I've found that for many hunters, including the 300yd crowd, ethics and accuracy envelopes depend greatly on the size of the antlers they see.
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That’s funny!

 

[tomcatfan]

Attention! Attention! - New rule of engagement for snipers. No shooting bad guys past 300yds...it's unethical.

Equating ethics to an arbitrary shooting distance is hunting's version of virtue signaling. SJW of the hunting world.

I think you got this all wrong. Ethics only apply to animals. One one cares about people. It's perfectly ok, nae in fact encouraged to wound a person.

A screaming person brings more targets to bear. Killing him outright, not so much.