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Why the Controversey over Creedmoor 6.5?
- Thread starter river251
- Start date
Here is a good visual,
Both of these are a bit over 400 yards away, and these are small, but the plate just next to it's ear is 6" at 600 yards. maybe 8 inches, still a kill zone sized plate. I would take that shot on an animal this size.
As long as the energy is right, I think it is okay
A pro hunter took our class, shot this guy at 580 yards, his farthest ever
Not very big compared to an Elk or Moose,
Know your limitations
He had 9 guides?
Where is that? Zamnobiabikistan?
I didn't say it was "preferred", merely implied that it was a concept.
It's extremely dated information. I can't find the the book to quote from at the moment but I believe it was from this 1966 book:
John S. Tompkins
Author of The Weapons of World War III and The Crime Confederation
www.goodreads.com
The book is about then new theories behind the adoption of then cutting edge small arms such as the M16, the M26 grenade, etc. Among other things it discussed the reason why smaller caliber rounds were gone to: been counters figured it takes X amount of rounds fired to account for one enemy hit, so the ability to carry more ammo was better. Hence the move to the 5.56.
Now that I think about it though, I should have said "gov't bean counters" support the policy rather than "the military." And since when the book was written I've also heard first person retellings of difficulty in bringing down opponents on narcotics, both in Vietnam and more recently in the Middle East, with the new smaller caliber rounds
All of this is (at best) relevant only to military use, not hunting.
Thanks for the reply, re read the post and you are correct, preferred is not the terminology I should have used. I really was just interested in the doctrine or publication it came from as it's always cool to read back old concepts or ideas so thanks for the link ill check that out.I didn't say it was "preferred", merely implied that it was a concept.
It's extremely dated information. I can't find the the book to quote from at the moment but I believe it was from this 1966 book:
John S. Tompkins
Author of The Weapons of World War III and The Crime Confederationwww.goodreads.com
The book is about then new theories behind the adoption of then cutting edge small arms such as the M16, the M26 grenade, etc. Among other things it discussed the reason why smaller caliber rounds were gone to: been counters figured it takes X amount of rounds fired to account for one enemy hit, so the ability to carry more ammo was better. Hence the move to the 5.56.
Now that I think about it though, I should have said "gov't bean counters" support the policy rather than "the military." And since when the book was written I've also heard first person retellings of difficulty in bringing down opponents on narcotics, both in Vietnam and more recently in the Middle East, with the new smaller caliber rounds
All of this is (at best) relevant only to military use, not hunting.
As far as it's application on today's battlefield it's more common to see our enemies using tactics to wound and draw more personnel in as they know we will run into danger to get them.
100% agree it comes down to numbers ran by someone who doesn't have to apply it in the real world. What looks good on paper doesn't always prove to work out and it usually costs lives to figure it out.
First off it was a joke and combat, well it depends on how you define it. I’ve never been in a fire fight, but I someone did take a pop shot at me, my flight chief, and a buddy of mine while we were standing out side of our tower in Kirkurk. Why do you ask?
it was destined for greatness from the start
I like cake.
Or as a buddy of mine in the Corps would do when walking up to a heated debate. "Pizza."
That always A. Confused the fuck out of everyone and B. Changed the conversation.
That's all I'm getting out of this headache of a thread. This thing has gone through so many dimensions it's like watching Sliders. Anybody else remember watching Sliders, no? Just me? Okay, I'll leave now.
Or as a buddy of mine in the Corps would do when walking up to a heated debate. "Pizza."
That always A. Confused the fuck out of everyone and B. Changed the conversation.
That's all I'm getting out of this headache of a thread. This thing has gone through so many dimensions it's like watching Sliders. Anybody else remember watching Sliders, no? Just me? Okay, I'll leave now.
Wonder what the "real gunsmith" thinks of this thread?
I'm amazed the dude knows how to 1: record a video and 2: put it on youtube
Have you even shot a 308 and 6.5 to any distance?
Less wind drift = more hits on target quicker.
I shoot both. On steady wind days both are somewhat equal. When the wind is switching direction ever so slightly or the speed isn’t as steady, Hit percentage goes up with the 6.5. Those that go just off the plate with the .308 would have been on the plate with the 6.5. Hard to deny that.
I never said it would not kill game dead, I post those videos to just demonstrate how similar and different the rounds are. Hell I can kill a deer with my Springfield .40S&W if i got close enough. A bullet is a bullet and will cause damage or death. This argument is a mute point with a skilled shooter that is use to shooting either round or both rounds. With the 6.5 due to lower flight and LESS WIND push on the round, it is easier to adjust for shots taken at longer ranges but people still miss. Its not a magic bullet and I dont get why everyone gets there panties all wadded up. It is a fact that there more accurate for competition, hell I plan to shot PRS, going to start with .308 ( better barrel life) then if or when I decide I should move to shooting 6.5 creed then i will. Till then the little child in me that always wanted his .308 bolt action that never got it, well gets it soon.
Does this make you feel better, because I said at the end of my post, choose one and go have fun, i have no skin in this cat, just showing some fun interesting things.
Then there is this......... take it how you want.......
Hell why are we even talking 6.5 vs .308, they all suck compared to ........
Barrett M82A1 .50 BMG 29" Barrel 10-Rounds Flip-Up Sights
The Barrett M82A1 offers reliable performance in a durable and hard-hitting rifle platform. It comes chambered in 50BMG with a 29 inch barrel. Features include flip-up sights, a bipod, and a 10 round magazine. Buy guns online for the best price form GrabAGun today!grabagun.com
Your putting your ignorance on display bringing up a m82 in regards to accurate shooting
I suck with my 308 and a 6.5 isn't going to suddenly make me a rockstar.
I have one precision rifle. Before purchasing it, I had to make a decision between .308, or 6.5 Creedmoor. I went with the Creedmoor for one reason. Recoil. I’m getting older and just don’t like to get beat to death. The 6.5 definitely has less recoil. I can shoot my rifle all day if I want.
Just like my 12 gauge shotgun. I used to bird hunt with a 12 gauge pump. Screw that. I went with a gas operated auto and will never go back.
Just like my 12 gauge shotgun. I used to bird hunt with a 12 gauge pump. Screw that. I went with a gas operated auto and will never go back.
LOL, LOL, LOL same old discussion...
PRS and hunting are similar but different. I love that PRS opened my mind and gave confidence.
A long range hunting shot gives time and opportunity as Frank says. I had more than half an hour watching a buck bedded chewing his cud.
PRS and hunting are similar but different. I love that PRS opened my mind and gave confidence.
A long range hunting shot gives time and opportunity as Frank says. I had more than half an hour watching a buck bedded chewing his cud.
Phew ?! Is the thread over now? Can @lowlight or @Marine PMI or @Dthomas3523 punctuate the thread and close it down? I’m EXHAUSTED!!!
This exactly. 2 legged creatures are way more fragile than 4 legged variety.
A ton of animals have been killed with ballistically less capable rounds than 6.5 CM. I don’t care for the 6.5CM I am a 260 Rem fanboy but same science applies. Down here in South Texas, I cant tell you how many people poach with 22 LR’s and 17 HMR’s and they are one in done. The iconic 30-30 win has killed a whole slew of animals.
It’s all about shot placement! My grandpa after falling off of a JD 4450 tractor (about 9’) busted up his shoulder bad. From then on he exclusively shot a .17 Rem and killed a bunch of animals. He got pissed off one day about the last Asian water buffalo bull on our place not letting his bull breed his heifers. He earholed that water buff at 125ish yards, any closer and it would get honery, and run your ass off. Low and behold he dropped it in its tracks. Knowing what I know now grandpa was a bit crazy shooting an animal like that with a 17 Rem about 40 yards from the truck when he ran slower than a tortoise. that being said the Morale of the story is ballistics like the one here are for campfire arguments, and saying a 308 win vs a 6.5 is better or worse is a moot point.
Yep, it’s amazing. typically if you shoot things in the head or heart, they die. And pretty efficiently.
Most people are over-gunned for their intended prey.
"My 6.5 CM shoots so well, I can't even hear how you are insulting me. " LOL
There's no extra points for owning ONLY guns that are difficult to shoot / reload for.
For self - flagellation, I have my rimfire benchrest guns.
There's no extra points for owning ONLY guns that are difficult to shoot / reload for.
For self - flagellation, I have my rimfire benchrest guns.
I was just checking out the new 156gn Berger 6.5 projectile and can't wait to get my hands on some. The accuracy is ridiculous and retained energy at distance great. > 300 G7 BC just outstanding for a 'Hunting' projectile. I love handloading and it will be fun to try to put together a round/chamber combo to be able to shoot these babies. My impression of those YouTubers is that they are grumpy old FUDDs. The simple stuff they have is OK if you are really new to reloading or shooting but that's about it. There's nothing to hate about the 6.5CM or 6CM as with the projectiles available now they are blowing everything else away and all those .270 lovers out there are hating it! How can that new fangled cartridge outshine US??!! Don't you know who we are?? There's a very good reason it is being touted by the military and that's because it's an awesome round. I can see why people might say 'but we already have the .260 Rem!' but it's just not that much more than the CM which has been fortunate enough to be released on the scene with plenty of good brass and factory loadings that the .260 missed a trick with. The 6.5x55 requires a long action and that's just not as handy especially for PRS and fiddling with those 'massive' magazines in changes. It will always hold a special place for me in my Swede M96 which is just a beautiful piece of machinery but all the loads available pussy foot around the supposed weakness of the actions and lower safety specs cf. the M98 action so your loads with the new high BC projectiles are only 6.5CM velocities or less. I know the custom target rifles of Europe shooting the 6.5x55 with chambers designed for high pressure loads utilising the new long high BC projectiles are a different kettle of fish but they still require a long action. In saying all that the venerable .308 is still a fine round and a proven performer and with better projectiles has been retained by most militaries around the the world as their standard sniper rifle and round. There's endless data on endless loads and it must be the most studied and tested round in the history of shooting and has 50 odd years of continual development behind it but the fact is it just doesn't perform as well as the 6.5CM. Brokeback Mountain it may be to some but the numbers don't lie and I'm afraid to say it but it here's to stay so best get over it.
Nah, he'll be 8mm Lebel or something he can shoot with his soy latte.
What’s the body guard shoot? 300 Norma?
There is nothing the faunciest new XYZ Cr-r-r-eedmoor (MUST roll the "r"s) will do that a 30-30, 308, or 30-06 won't. Creedmoor is just another redundant wildcat with a Limey name and a bunch of gunwriters looking for anything except the usual .308 VS 30-06 vs 300 Win Mag or the Rem 700 vs Winchester M70 to write about. "Creedmoor" sounds a bit european, therefore exotic to the great unwashed, and therefore worthy of spilling some ink. If you research it, you'll find Creedmoor has 2 claims to recognition; first is the Creedmoor insane asylum, still in operation as of over a little over a century. Second (wa-aa-ay down the list) is just another run-of-the-mill (but well promoted) shooting range/club such as you'll find all over the USA. There are, of course, a bunch of white-shoed hoity-toidy types wandering around displaying their highly embellished smoke-poles and high-dollar wardrobes. In my limited experience, many of the self-promoters trying to enter this class are nothing but trouble for the rest of us.
I take it you've never owned one or reloaded for it then? It's a great cartridge. Super efficient, super accurate and the range of excellent target and hunting projectiles is nearly as good as .30 Cal. but they generally have better Sectional Densities and higher BC's for their weights. Saying it is a 'redundant wildcat' is the most Fudd thing someone can say. It's here to stay.
It's appropriate to necro this on Halloween. Well done.
Also, does everyone in Alabama qualify as Limey or just some? Do they get UK citizenship as well? Is Hornady British owned? So many questions...
Also, does everyone in Alabama qualify as Limey or just some? Do they get UK citizenship as well? Is Hornady British owned? So many questions...
I love 6.5 Creedmoor. I can wail on shooters (man bun pussies) and deniers (100yd fudds) equally!
Im telling you, that fan-dangled new smokeless abomination 30-06 just wont catch on.
The 45-70govt can do anything the 30-06 can do, and better. There is nothing new here. They even tried to copy the caliber number format. How uncooth.
If its good enough for the governement to use, then its good enough for me. More buffalo have been shot this year than ever before, and 30-06 doesnt have the staying power.
The 45-70 is so perfectly made and named, it even had the powder charger of 70gr of the good black stuff.
That fancy-pants 30-06 is basically a kids gallery gun. Its a passing fad that will die off, mark my words.
And whats with "smokeless" ? Taking the smoke away takes power away, thats why its underwhelming. Smoke is expanding gas dont you know, so removing the smoke makes it an oversized air rifle. I wouldnt even let my wife in the home stead use one when the cattle rustlers come by. We want to defend our land not put on a comedy act.
Now if you'll excuse me, i need to go and shine my boots.
The 45-70govt can do anything the 30-06 can do, and better. There is nothing new here. They even tried to copy the caliber number format. How uncooth.
If its good enough for the governement to use, then its good enough for me. More buffalo have been shot this year than ever before, and 30-06 doesnt have the staying power.
The 45-70 is so perfectly made and named, it even had the powder charger of 70gr of the good black stuff.
That fancy-pants 30-06 is basically a kids gallery gun. Its a passing fad that will die off, mark my words.
And whats with "smokeless" ? Taking the smoke away takes power away, thats why its underwhelming. Smoke is expanding gas dont you know, so removing the smoke makes it an oversized air rifle. I wouldnt even let my wife in the home stead use one when the cattle rustlers come by. We want to defend our land not put on a comedy act.
Now if you'll excuse me, i need to go and shine my boots.
