Why we can't have nice things,

[Kasey]

Not for the first time. Last PRS match I shot was Franks in Ft. Morgan in like 2015? Drama city, NONE of it Franks fault.

They bitched because Vibbert helped set up a stage with his steel he somehow had an advantage and took the win away.

Some jack wagon from the AMU claimed during the alibi period that he got shorted like 30 points, like a whole section of the match worth.

Then nobody would let Frank talk at the awards and they descended on the prize table like vultures.

PRS = Precision Rifle Stupidity.

Bingo.

Because he's not a douchenozzle.

Lol, my one and only RO experience!

 

[Birddog6424]

Not exactly what i heard. I don’t even know why it would come to a vote. Lol. A cheater is a cheater. But you sound like your in the know so I’ll let that go as what happened. Long as he/them are not back i don’t give a shit how it went down. Thanks for the clarification.

Its all good brother.. but its a good example of how some of these issues can get blown out of proportion.

The reason it went to a vote, is because in spite of the many things a person may read in this thread or on this forum, PRS ownership does a fairly good job of letting the Match Directors participate in big decisions. We voted on all the rule changes for the last couple of years. The issues at this year's Finale, etc. We are well included in the PRS.

I remember last year all the fall out over the rule change to disallow points loss stages. The thread here on the Hide was as long or longer than this one, all venting and bagging on Shannon and the PRS. In reality, he had very little to do with it. All he did was put the new rule proposals to a vote. If I recall it was pretty much unanimous to no longer allow those stages. Nearly every MD stated the reason for their vote was because shooters complained about them. But all the abuse got heaped on the guy at the top who wasn't even responsible for it.

As I've said previously, a lot of these "ideas/wishes" as to what the PRS or NRL should be or could be make no sense to me. Its great sounding rhetoric to a disaffected audience, but a lot of it is already being done.

 

[Gleedus]

Its been a interesting read. There are always right and wrong on both sides. I am young self taught from a non-shooting family. The PRS is what brought the practical style comps to my attention. Travis with his excellent videos of the NRL matches let me see that yes I would enjoy this very much. Being in Ontario Canada we didnt have many matches centerfire matches.
Accidentally I discovered the Canadian Precision Rimfire Series. It is simular to what you now have with the NRL22X.
I am competitive and really enjoy the "series" aspect as I can compare against the guys in the west who I'll never see.
We have mostly 1 day saturday matches perfect for us trades guys. Prizes are all random number and its only $50.00 to spend a day with a amazing community of guys.
Everything is built on Community in this series. We have a number of very competent shooters but its not about them its more about the average guy.
We have a 2 day Championship match in the maritime's, east, west. Its simple and affordable.
We NEED the top "jersey" shooters they create goals and show people hey you can do this too this is possible! They can mentor newer guys. But the top needs the average joe even more. Without us there is no series no matches.

Reading this has reaffirmed my goals of mentoring a new shooter each match and appreciating our little series focused on building a community.

I would really enjoy heading south one day and seeing how matches are down there and gathering ideas...

That is why I shoot 22lr my 6mm is on holidays.

 

[Josh1978]

I don't think your finger-pointing and shit steering really helps.

Clearly it is, may not help the PRS but it’s opening eyes and changing change

change is coming on fast

don’t like leave

Frank sharing the information he is privy to helps enlighten forum members. I am brand new to competition shooting and am glad that I had an opportunity to see exactly how PRS leadership handles them selves. Saying that his, “finger-pointing and shit steering” doesn’t help things is obtuse at best. He didn’t tell me where I could go shooting, or who to involve myself with. He put the information out and now it’s up to me to decide if I want to associate with these people or not.

 

[Kasey]

So Summit calls are coming in,

People like the idea of a Summit to hash out the high level topics and put the community on better footing,

You can't get too granular on this stuff, you want talk coordination, community goals and standard, then how to work together across series or regions

What would you think is a good way to put some of the bigger issues to bed ?

Frank, just seeing this, I believe you have been spot on in fighting the good fight for the sport as a whole. You know my interest is and has always been promoting shooting sports over personal gain. Fact, the center of the USA is In Kansas, there is zero to do here so a great place to summit! I just want to be the Sergeant at arms!! Lol. Good luck!

 

[warbird2006]

Lots of good points. I do not know Frank personally. I only had few interactions with Frank. They were not plausible. He comes around like a cocky little man with Napoleon syndrome. A conflict seeking leader will inflict more harm than good. That's how I see it.

 

[Alpine 338]

Lol, my one and only RO experience!

I remember by the end of the day when I got to your stage, you already had more than enough of it.

 

[Rob01]

Lots of good points. I do not know Frank personally. I only had few interactions with Frank. They were not plausible. He comes around like a cocky little man with Napoleon syndrome. A conflict seeking leader will inflict more harm than good. That's how I see it.

@lowlight isnt this the first time someone who doesn’t agree with you makes fun of your height? LOL

 

[Gleedus]

Lots of good points. I do not know Frank personally. I only had few interactions with Frank. They were not plausible. He comes around like a cocky little man with Napoleon syndrome. A conflict seeking leader will inflict more harm than good. That's how I see it.

I also have never met him. He comes across to that way to certain types of people. I see him as pointed says what he thinks he will stay by what he believes till the end. I dont agree with everything he says. Not at all! But I expect I can tell him hes being a ass and he can say the same to me and then go for lunch with no animosity. I love a good heated discussion where people say exactly what they think and why. To me there is no personal connection it is discussion not war.
He say repeatedly that he will not get involved with any series as it wouldn't work. He knows himself and is willing to own up to it. We all have inflated view of our opinions but few are willing to admit it.
This is not about what he thinks this is about what has happened and is happening. We can all quietly make our decisions by looking at both sides no ripples. The "finger pointing" helps us see the other side. Its up to us not to do anything stupid or radical and make a problem.

 

[Lowlight]

We should talk about this, ‘

Napoeleon syndrome, hmm, please expand on that...

Birddog is a true fan boi, plenty of justifications and excuses, funny how all of this started here and how i have been there done that but I am cocky so make a sad face everyone, I am a mean girl

Woke warriors who want the playing field leveled, you guys fucked this up and then cry when it pointed out.

No loss of point’s, waaa, I gambled and lost but don;t take My points

No, I just want to be party to breaking what you enjoy, that is the ticket. You found me out,

How about looking at the pros and cons who has done what for this community and who just takes... I will put my 20 years against anyone‘s , last time I checked I help with this community as bigger as any single source if not bigger

Some people like my opinion

 

[Lowlight]

Ignore themjust SHOOT THE MESSENGER MiNIONS

they are sent over to attack me personally it’s what they do... just like the opening paragraph attack on Scott,

Same MO, they just don’t have the balls to do it themselves, so they send the expendables

 

[Lowlight]

@lowlight isnt this the first time someone who doesn’t agree with you makes fun of your height? LOL

I am still offering money for the best unheard short joke ...

If you can get a rise out of me with your best short put down I will pay cash, $1000 gotta move me though

Later we’ll have the demonstration of, Feats of Strenght, the big tough guys only, you know the ones that would have joined the Marines and become a Sniper ...

Yep we started with 30 tough guys in class, I saw 17 of them disappear ...

 

[Newbie2020]

I loved your story about almost being kicked out on day one for being short—-funny now knowing what you’ve achieved!

 

[Lowlight]

So where were we

Anyone, I was reading some of the replies between here and Facebook lastnight during the race. And really my intrepretation of the situation has changed a big.

People are participating, begrudgingly, it’s as if it’s the only game in town, but in this case, the towns are far and few between. Yes we have some variety in matches, but very little anymore. They are repetitive and contrived today, they moved pretty far from where we started, the intent behind this. (See I can talk intent I was there, cocky as that may sound)

More and more you hear people are looking for a different type of competition. It just evolved, nothing sinister.

So bringing it back to 2 gun, rifle and pistol, fighting to and from position.

That is why Assassin Way, that is why Hunter styles, find it, range it, engage it, shoot, move communicate

I think I can hybrid this, develop a model that can be followed,

I am on a plane right now, have a few classes, but a bunch of downtime in CA this week... gonna flush it out a bit more

Broad strokes, the details I can get later, I will follow some of the classification models currently being used, probably Mimic the stuff Phil and Pete were talking about

I think I can flush this out pretty well, last night It was some strong ideas, now to just create them.

I have the Cup, I can flirt with a standalone SHC to play with it,

 

[Lowlight]

LOL the Leprechaun in bootcamp they are always making fun of me, so disheartening, where is my bed so I can curl up and cry

 

[kingston]

I thought when I deleted my Facebook account, I would lose my ability to stir the pots. I found a couple pots for one day.

Fuck FaceBook and FaceBook owned Instagram. I know this is off topic, but the mega-power social media platforms are no place to build a home for the shooting sports. I used to think that we had to be there to represent, but I was wrong. We need to be places like here and the 24HRCF, ARF, RokSlide, LRH...

 

[Lowlight]

For being a Napoleon the same guy in the USMC picture, who was my Platoon SGT is sitting right next to me 34+ years later we are still working together

Funny how that works ...

 

[warbird2006]

We should talk about this, ‘

Napoeleon syndrome, hmm, please expand on that...

Birddog is a true fan boi, plenty of justifications and excuses, funny how all of this started here and how i have been there done that but I am cocky so make a sad face everyone, I am a mean girl

Woke warriors who want the playing field leveled, you guys fucked this up and then cry when it pointed out.

No loss of point’s, waaa, I gambled and lost but don;t take My points

No, I just want to be party to breaking what you enjoy, that is the ticket. You found me out,

How about looking at the pros and cons who has done what for this community and who just takes... I will put my 20 years against anyone‘s , last time I checked I help with this community as bigger as any single source if not bigger

Some people like my opinion

Frank, if you don't know what the Napoleon syndrome is, please Google it.

 

[Lowlight]

I want your take on how it applies to me

please enlighten me, seriously I want you to spell it out for me

You brought it up randomly we did not speak to each other in this thread but you felt the need to call me out over this,

So take your best shot, or are you gutless

 

[427Cobra]

"concernedshooter@iamafuckingcoward"

Get rid of the prize tables

 

[TriggerJerk!]

Wow... can I play?

For all those pulling out the term “Napoleon Complex” like it is some universally known sweeping insult, even wikipedia thinks it is bullshit....

“In 2007, research by the University of Central Lancashire suggested that the Napoleon complex (described in terms of the theory that shorter men are more aggressive to dominate those who are taller than they are) is likely to be a myth. The study discovered that short men were less likely to lose their temper than men of average height”.

So... what now? Point at the doll and tell me where @lowlight hurt you

 

[Lowlight]

My Alpha offends their Beta and if a person Under 5’8” is Alpha it automatically means Napoleon

How come if an average height person does it, it’s great, but if a below average person does the same exact thing it’s not ? they are grandstanding, or is this all code for stay in your place Little boy?

The funny part is, I never thought being smart had anything to do with height? Which is why I say, lack of oxygen up there is affecting your brain, inhale MORE

Weird what does your size have to do with a conversation ? Then again I am a loud talker so maybe that is it, but I grew up in a big family, my Grandmother’s kitchen table was 18ft long, not the dining room, the kitchen, 33 first cousins all on the same street. We were all loud, aggressive, big personality types. There is a lot of competition for food, that pasta is not gonna eat itself.

 

[kriller134]

Lots of good points. I do not know Frank personally. I only had few interactions with Frank. They were not plausible. He comes around like a cocky little man with Napoleon syndrome. A conflict seeking leader will inflict more harm than good. That's how I see it.

Can’t understand you. You gotta take Shannon’s cock out of your mouth when you speak.

 

[Birddog6424]

Birddog is a true fan boi,

You obviously dont know me.

I'm actually not a big fan of the PRS right now. The decisions they made over a Finale placement really went against the grain for me. And I was quite vocal about it. Which means there are a fair share of people in the PRS who aren't very happy with me at the moment either. Jake V. and I kinda hung our asses out there and it didn't go well.

But that doesn't mean the entire system is broken. Nor do I see the sweeping problems that have gotten so much air time here. Its ran by people, and everyone has their flaws. Ive participated in every shooting sport under the sun in the last 40 years, and every governing body had its issues. And vocal detractors.

There's a lot of hyperbole in this thread that folks who don't know any better are taking as gospel. I see people saying they won't participate because of the things being said. I feel they are being misled by a one sided argument. While every weekend there are hundreds of shooters who go out and have a great time shooting a PRS match. They aren't Sniper's Hide woke, so they don't know they are supposed to be mad at the system. And it effects them not at all.

Its just shooting. Its supposed to be fun. Maybe everyone is taking this a little too seriously.

 

[Lowlight]

His button might be sticky, I am landing anyway it was fun thanks

Stupid, TSA said my AI gaiter was not approved, would not let me through

Then my waist band flagged the scanner, so they basically did a full body search and chemical testing

Flight was delayed an hour taking off

-8 leaving the house

The PRS still sucks

But this is all my fault so don’t sweat it

 

[Gleedus]

Lmao "that pasta is not gonna eat itself"..... wow.....

Growing up i didnt know anything about these different personality traits etc. Some call our family "agressive" "hard to deal with". We call it saying how we see it. Yes is yes no is no. This beating around the bush is pointless. Either your in or your out.

Unless of course your weaving a little trap for the bush beaters.....

 

[Lowlight]

Why are you here again

I heard the PRS has a forum now, much friendly there I am sure,it will be like SH used to be

 

[Lowlight]

Nob

You obviously dont know me.

I'm actually not a big fan of the PRS right now. The decisions they made over a Finale placement really went against the grain for me. And I was quite vocal about it. Which means there are a fair share of people in the PRS who aren't very happy with me at the moment either. Jake V. and I kinda hung our asses out there and it didn't go well.

But that doesn't mean the entire system is broken. Nor do I see the sweeping problems that have gotten so much air time here. Its ran by people, and everyone has their flaws. Ive participated in every shooting sport under the sun in the last 40 years, and every governing body had its issues. And vocal detractors.

There's a lot of hyperbole in this thread that folks who don't know any better are taking as gospel. I see people saying they won't participate because of the things being said. I feel they are being misled by a one sided argument. While every weekend there are hundreds of shooters who go out and have a great time shooting a PRS match. They aren't Sniper's Hide woke, so they don't know they are supposed to be mad at the system. And it effects them not at all.

Its just shooting. Its supposed to be fun. Maybe everyone is taking this a little too seriously.

Nobody believes you

I know all I need to know, you made it clear, trying to pretend you have issues now too is funny, and weak

 

[sstacllc]

So where were we

Anyone, I was reading some of the replies between here and Facebook lastnight during the race. And really my intrepretation of the situation has changed a big.

People are participating, begrudgingly, it’s as if it’s the only game in town, but in this case, the towns are far and few between. Yes we have some variety in matches, but very little anymore. They are repetitive and contrived today, they moved pretty far from where we started, the intent behind this. (See I can talk intent I was there, cocky as that may sound)

More and more you hear people are looking for a different type of competition. It just evolved, nothing sinister.

So bringing it back to 2 gun, rifle and pistol, fighting to and from position.

That is why Assassin Way, that is why Hunter styles, find it, range it, engage it, shoot, move communicate

I think I can hybrid this, develop a model that can be followed,

I am on a plane right now, have a few classes, but a bunch of downtime in CA this week... gonna flush it out a bit more

Broad strokes, the details I can get later, I will follow some of the classification models currently being used, probably Mimic the stuff Phil and Pete were talking about

I think I can flush this out pretty well, last night It was some strong ideas, now to just create them.

I have the Cup, I can flirt with a standalone SHC to play with it,

Create a play ground folks will show up!

 

[Josh1978]

LOL the Leprechaun in bootcamp they are always making fun of me, so disheartening, where is my bed so I can curl up and cry

View attachment 7556468

What year was this picture taken? Just curious.

 

[Newbie2020]

I will vouch for Frank even though he doesn’t ask for it or need it. He is NO Napoleon. He’s self deprecating and his whole life and occupation is to serve and to help people—-especially us plebes. If all anyone knows of Frank is a few posts, freaking drive to Fort Morgan (or Alaska, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Texas, or Tennessee...) and take his class. You’ll change your mind.

 

[_Windrider_]

Lots of LOLzzzz in here.

 

[Lowlight]

What year was this picture taken? Just curious.

87-88

 

[Birddog6424]

Nob

Nobody believes you

I know all I need to know, you made it clear, trying to pretend you have issues now too is funny, and weak

You're definitely an odd sort of fellow. The funny thing being you seem to be nothing at all like you are here on your forum compared to the person I spoke to in real life. Yes, we've met.

You were well spoken and engaging. Here on the hide you're combative and very quick to get your hackles up at any perceived challenges to your opinion. I'll admit that to a new shooter to the sport, it was pretty cool meeting you. But your forum persona really changed all that. You aren't who I thought you were.

I've been respectful and offered you no insult. In response you twist everything into an insult. And all I've done is disagree with you.

But its all good. Think what you want. I'm going to take my own advice and not take this too seriously.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Shooting sports at the higher levels has been expensive, always. Making anything more expensive these days is sorta like pushing the rope.

There are a lot of reasons why you don't see me participating.

First, I'm not that good at what the programs do. But being an underdog is actually pretty attractive to me, so that's not the point here.

Next, my health is not, shall we say, at the superhero stage; but I have been known to push myself to the very edge of having a heart attack to compete; so that's not it, either.

It's expensive, and all I could probably afford would be something on a regional level. But I still have that compulsion to compete with my 'Stupid Savage' factory rifles with cosmetic mods, so we're still not at an answer.

What turns me off? It's those big fat dripping greasy prize tables. The fatted calf, up for dibs... This is not a shooting competition. It's a marketing potlatch, and oh yeah, people are shooting, too. I used to run club level and state level matches back in the 1990's, mostly in NJ, before NJ became politically devolved to the level of the Neanderthal. While I was running the program, there were no prizes. You got a certificate for class and finishing position; that's all folks. When I moved on, physical trophies, money, and prizes got involved (somewhat), and the fecal matter hit the rotary oscillator. Always has, and always will. The pleasure people get out of a thing is in direct inverse proportion to the greed factor involved.

My difference, I'm not driven to win. I know my limits and they are mighty. I go for the challenge of the task, the camaraderie, and the satisfaction of stretching my own personal limits. For me, it's about marksmanship, not athletics and obstacle courses; and very definitely not about taking home some coveted abstract object.

I couldn't give a shit about personalities, and have nothing more to say on the subject. I don't talk shit about people I don't know, and in this sport(?) I don't know anyone (well, LL, some, a while ago... (measured in decades)). My loss.., probably...

This sport(?) has grown beyond its capabilities, the Peter Principle in action.

Time for a total reset. Begin over with basics, very basic basics. Do not immerse oneself in the ordure of mega prizes,

Every time you add a rule, the playing field gets slanted, you exclude someone or something, and I will be among the first to leave. If inclusiveness is not a key priority, you're playing polo. Elitism ain't my thing.

Old words from an old fart looking in from beyond the pale, but who the Hell am I am I to talk, anyway?

Greg

 

[TriggerJerk!]

What turns me off? It's those big fat dripping greasy prize tables. The fatted calf, up for dibs... This is not a shooting competition. It's a marketing potlatch, and oh yeah, people are shooting, too

^^^^^^This!!

Well stated. Same thing seems to happen in all shooting sports. A real same.

 

[Lowlight]

Honestly I haven't see a fat prize table in a while, most of them are much smaller, it's not about prizes or tables

This is about so much more

You were well spoken and engaging. Here on the hide you're combative and very quick to get your hackles up at any perceived challenges to your opinion. I'll admit that to a new shooter to the sport, it was pretty cool meeting you. But your forum persona really changed all that. You aren't who I thought you were.

Is this the never meet your heroes moment ?

I forget, am I Napoleon, am I causing problems, too divisive you guys are all only the place

Please be nicer to me is what I read, forget the 100s of insults I received, even here, just above your post, the hate mail, every single day because you want to sell your shit and can't do it for free.

Sounds like being Factually Correct but Morally wrong to me ... ok aoc

Quick to get my hackles up, 20 years, MILLIONS of comments, but I quick to get my hackles up.

Like they said, build it and they come, just be warned when they show up at your door, don't expect any respect, they will spit on the floors, piss in the sinks, critique the food, complain the paint on the walls, but sure, build it, they will come.

Funny, none of you acknowledge my first post, didn't make it about me, didn't weigh in especially hard on any single topic, didn't try to push the narrative in a divisive ways, in fact I am the only one, and I repeated it several times on the podcast, to host to Summit to put it to bed.

I seem to recall the summit part, I seem to recall saying, I know how divisive I am I'll take a back seat but work towards a solution.

The Victim card is strong today, I know I need to go back to OVER explaining things so people don't take offense, saying too little is my problem. You need specially written and received invitations with each reply. Got it I will endeavor to do better in the future

wouldn't want to misunderstand any of the top level comments I read.

N.B.

 

[_Windrider_]

Honestly I haven't see a fat prize table in a while, most of them are much smaller, it's not about prizes or tables

This is about so much more



Is this the never meet your heroes moment ?

I forget, am I Napoleon, am I causing problems, too divisive you guys are all only the place

Please be nicer to me is what I read, forget the 100s of insults I received, even here, just above your post, the hate mail, every single day because you want to sell your shit and can't do it for free.

Sounds like being Factually Correct but Morally wrong to me ...

Quick to get my hackles up, 20 years, MILLIONS of comments, but I quick to get my hackles up.

Like they said, build it and they come, just be warned when they show up at your door, don't expect any respect, they will spit on the floors, piss in the sinks, critique the food, complain the paint on the walls, but sure, build it, they will come.

Funny, none of you acknowledge my first post, didn't make it about me, didn't weigh in especially hard on any single topic, didn't try to push the narrative in a divisive ways, in fact I am the only one, and I repeated it several times on the podcast, to host to Summit to put it to bed.
I seem to recall the summit part, I seem to recall saying, I know how divisive I am I'll take a back seat but works towards a solution.

The Victim card is strong today, I know I need to go back to OVER explaining things so people don't take offensive, saying too little is my problem. You need specially written and received invitations with each reply. Got it I will endeavor to do better in the future

wouldn't want to misunderstand any of the top level comments I read.

N.B.

Wait a minute. Are you saying we aren’t supposed to piss in the sink? Cause on my last flight to the DR I had a guy shit in a bag and leave it in the sink.

 

[Lowlight]

And now, as promised,

We move to the display of "Feats of Strength"



PS. he weighed 305 or something close

 

[Newbie2020]

That’s so good...haha

 

[_Windrider_]

Some will say it’s photoshopped, but at least now we know how your shoulder and neck got jacked up.

 

[Lowlight]

Ya, I pushed hard a lot, was the job.

My back and neck were always complaining about the weight I carried, like I said in the video, the USMC doesn't say, Gee Frank that is okay, we'll skip that part. I think people believe it's like the revolutionary war or something where they go, oh look Mom dropped the kid off to Military Camp, give him a Drum and let him tag along, vs the reality.

I must have missed the, don't worry we'll hand out participation trophies later, have a soda and snack while you wait.

 

[Lowlight]

I was thinking, the stuff last night,

Maybe mix it a bit of CD, do stages that are multi parts, not just 1x, 2x, but have the stages connected at times so you are doing 3 stages at once.

I have this thought about creating "target" packages to help test as well push, I still believe progressive targets are better when shooting more than one shot at any particular target. The old way of doing 5 shots on a single piece of steel used to drive me crazy, hated it. So I am thinking make every "stage/firing point be either 2 or 3 targets, big to smaller to increase the pressure a little and push towards smaller. So a 2x would be 2 targets and a 3x would be 3, sort of standardize different aspect of it. It reads wrong but I know in execution it's better we do a variation in classes

But creating a model that can easily replicated around the country should be the goal. Where space is a problem, they can easily transition into 22 stages because the room needed is less.

I think the movement is a missing element today, it's one thing to walk up to a tank trap and hit every point, it's another thing to scramble to a position, then fight to another, mix in handgun

I can tell you the exact moment pistols were stopped in PRS, I was there when the guy shot himself in the leg at K&M it was the first time someone hurt themselves in this style match, they included a draw, something we didn't do, we always started from low ready and under the time, he grabbed the trigger and clipped his leg.

So I want pistols back, we are letting that skillset fall away, nothing crazy, just some basics, when the recent people say they enjoyed the SH Matches it's usually the combined stages. Like the one where you fought from vehicle to vehicle and then got out and used the bolt gun, looked like a car accident with targets.

We need to add back a little imagination and I think I can build something around that imagination, that can easily be replicated

It might mean a few less stages, but part of the plan is to create a 20 stage 2 day, not more. The variety is the missing elements

Read the comments, and not just the bullshit ones, but the ones from shooters who walked away or cut back on their participations. There is a lot of insight in these comments, even the ones of those who don't shoot as much any more and might be slightly off base. But their opinions are valuable

There are certain themes that repeat, sometimes they are bolder, but in this case they are all these, just subtle

 

[_Windrider_]

I was thinking, the stuff last night,

Maybe mix it a bit of CD, do stages that are multi parts, not just 1x, 2x, but have the stages connected at times so you are doing 3 stages at once.

I have this thought about creating "target" packages to help test as well push, I still believe progressive targets are better when shooting more than one shot at any particular target. The old way of doing 5 shots on a single piece of steel used to drive me crazy, hated it. So I am thinking make every "stage/firing point be either 2 or 3 targets, big to smaller to increase the pressure a little and push towards smaller. So a 2x would be 2 targets and a 3x would be 3, sort of standardize different aspect of it. It reads wrong but I know in execution it's better we do a variation in classes

But creating a model that can easily replicated around the country should be the goal. Where space is a problem, they can easily transition into 22 stages because the room needed is less.

I think the movement is a missing element today, it's one thing to walk up to a tank trap and hit every point, it's another thing to scramble to a position, then fight to another, mix in handgun

I can tell you the exact moment pistols were stopped in PRS, I was there when the guy shot himself in the leg at K&M it was the first time someone hurt themselves in this style match, they included a draw, something we didn't do, we always started from low ready and under the time, he grabbed the trigger and clipped his leg.

So I want pistols back, we are letting that skillset fall away, nothing crazy, just some basics, when the recent people say they enjoyed the SH Matches it's usually the combined stages. Like the one where you fought from vehicle to vehicle and then got out and used the bolt gun, looked like a car accident with targets.

We need to add back a little imagination and I think I can build something around that imagination, that can easily be replicated

It might mean a few less stages, but part of the plan is to create a 20 stage 2 day, not more. The variety is the missing elements

Read the comments, and not just the bullshit ones, but the ones from shooters who walked away or cut back on their participations. There is a lot of insight in these comments, even the ones of those who don't shoot as much any more and might be slightly off base. But their opinions are valuable

There are certain themes that repeat, sometimes they are bolder, but in this case they are all these, just subtle

I finally finished the episode this am. Been thinking about it all day as I laugh at some of this thread. Personally, I favor movements. I like endurance challenges (Even though mine is diminished and needs improvement). i Have more I want to say but haven’t formed a cojent thought out response yet. Different venues will dictate what we do. Smaller targets, multiple targets like you said, and shooting with our bags in our back to simulate an ambush where maybe you don’t have time to shed everything right away. Take a few shots at a target with full kit. She’d the pack, move to a different position and shoot 3 more. Just shooting from the hip here

 

[Kasey]

I remember by the end of the day when I got to your stage, you already had more than enough of it.

That obvious?! Lol. But seriously, I was disappointed in the conduct of a FEW “pro” shooters. Two were anything but ambassadors for the shooting world. As a community we need to do our best to gain more people into gun ownership.

 

[_Windrider_]

That obvious?! Lol. But seriously, I was disappointed in the conduct of a FEW “pro” shooters. Two were anything but ambassadors for the shooting world. As a community we need to do our best to gain more people into gun ownership.

Honestly we need an outreach to anti 2A or more on the fence types to come out and participate and observe.

 

[Longshot79]

sweet! So essentially you’re supporting the PRS whether you want to or not......sounds like extortion.
View attachment 7556121

Pretty much

 

[LV Precision]

I was thinking, the stuff last night,

Maybe mix it a bit of CD, do stages that are multi parts, not just 1x, 2x, but have the stages connected at times so you are doing 3 stages at once.

I have this thought about creating "target" packages to help test as well push, I still believe progressive targets are better when shooting more than one shot at any particular target. The old way of doing 5 shots on a single piece of steel used to drive me crazy, hated it. So I am thinking make every "stage/firing point be either 2 or 3 targets, big to smaller to increase the pressure a little and push towards smaller. So a 2x would be 2 targets and a 3x would be 3, sort of standardize different aspect of it. It reads wrong but I know in execution it's better we do a variation in classes

But creating a model that can easily replicated around the country should be the goal. Where space is a problem, they can easily transition into 22 stages because the room needed is less.

I think the movement is a missing element today, it's one thing to walk up to a tank trap and hit every point, it's another thing to scramble to a position, then fight to another, mix in handgun

I can tell you the exact moment pistols were stopped in PRS, I was there when the guy shot himself in the leg at K&M it was the first time someone hurt themselves in this style match, they included a draw, something we didn't do, we always started from low ready and under the time, he grabbed the trigger and clipped his leg.

So I want pistols back, we are letting that skillset fall away, nothing crazy, just some basics, when the recent people say they enjoyed the SH Matches it's usually the combined stages. Like the one where you fought from vehicle to vehicle and then got out and used the bolt gun, looked like a car accident with targets.

We need to add back a little imagination and I think I can build something around that imagination, that can easily be replicated

It might mean a few less stages, but part of the plan is to create a 20 stage 2 day, not more. The variety is the missing elements

Read the comments, and not just the bullshit ones, but the ones from shooters who walked away or cut back on their participations. There is a lot of insight in these comments, even the ones of those who don't shoot as much any more and might be slightly off base. But their opinions are valuable

There are certain themes that repeat, sometimes they are bolder, but in this case they are all these, just subtle

I was thinking, the stuff last night,

Maybe mix it a bit of CD, do stages that are multi parts, not just 1x, 2x, but have the stages connected at times so you are doing 3 stages at once.

I have this thought about creating "target" packages to help test as well push, I still believe progressive targets are better when shooting more than one shot at any particular target. The old way of doing 5 shots on a single piece of steel used to drive me crazy, hated it. So I am thinking make every "stage/firing point be either 2 or 3 targets, big to smaller to increase the pressure a little and push towards smaller. So a 2x would be 2 targets and a 3x would be 3, sort of standardize different aspect of it. It reads wrong but I know in execution it's better we do a variation in classes

But creating a model that can easily replicated around the country should be the goal. Where space is a problem, they can easily transition into 22 stages because the room needed is less.

I think the movement is a missing element today, it's one thing to walk up to a tank trap and hit every point, it's another thing to scramble to a position, then fight to another, mix in handgun

I can tell you the exact moment pistols were stopped in PRS, I was there when the guy shot himself in the leg at K&M it was the first time someone hurt themselves in this style match, they included a draw, something we didn't do, we always started from low ready and under the time, he grabbed the trigger and clipped his leg.

So I want pistols back, we are letting that skillset fall away, nothing crazy, just some basics, when the recent people say they enjoyed the SH Matches it's usually the combined stages. Like the one where you fought from vehicle to vehicle and then got out and used the bolt gun, looked like a car accident with targets.

We need to add back a little imagination and I think I can build something around that imagination, that can easily be replicated

It might mean a few less stages, but part of the plan is to create a 20 stage 2 day, not more. The variety is the missing elements

Read the comments, and not just the bullshit ones, but the ones from shooters who walked away or cut back on their participations. There is a lot of insight in these comments, even the ones of those who don't shoot as much any more and might be slightly off base. But their opinions are valuable

There are certain themes that repeat, sometimes they are bolder, but in this case they are all these, just subtle

This actually sounds a lot like the older style Ironman or Hard as Hell stages that used to be popular in 3gun, only this time with precision rifles. Those type of stages are really awesome, except it takes a long time to run shooters through (or reset if there’s falling steel or paper). Average times of 3-5minute stages x 10 shooters per squad gets backed up pretty quickly. Most matches like that only run about 3-4 stages per day, which isnt a lot of shooting for the amount of time spent on a range.

Easy way to account for people not to shoot themselves is to force no hot reholsters, and movement in Condition 4 no rounds in the gun, and going hot only when you’re ready to shoot.

 

[Lowlight]

I have the timings down no worries on that,

Out west a lot of matches, and my SHC stages are 5 minutes and we move people no problem

I know how to do it

 

[Kasey]

Seven pages and probably less than 10 posts are about the proposed summit. Mayhap people, like the proverbial frog, like the warming waters.
Several posts about International shooters not a US problem, can’t you understand the problem international shooters are facing? Maybe that egocentric mindset is why US rifle comps are so fractured. We can and should do better.
Last as a small manufacturer, we do not discriminate. Large or small we have sponsored all. Trivia question- Do you know how much growth in sales we can attribute to such sponsorships In the NRL vs PRS? We have no idea and frankly, we don’t care! We simply want to support the community.