That’s why I said it was in the MDs court as shooters will still shoot. Never said boycott anything did I?
Why we can't have nice things,
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That’s why I said it was in the MDs court as shooters will still shoot. Never said boycott anything did I?
No, you didn't. You've been consistently saying that guys should just go shoot matches and ignore the higher level series drama.
I suppose I was responding more to some of the posts above yours, and so maybe shouldn't have quoted you.
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I live in New Zealand. PRS isn't here, there are several clubs doing that style of competition
But stay tuned for the instagram announcement of the Official suppository of the PRS for 2021
Hi,
Not really.
Name 1 single thing I have said that is incorrect.
Or do you and him operate in a world where what is good for the goose is NOT good for the gander?
Sincerely,
Theis
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Weren’t you leaving for the PRS Forum
Shannon loves loyalty — never asked for an apology, lol, I said you were an apologist for what has been done, note: talking out both sides of your mouth
The hedging is my favorite look, Defend the PRS, but make sure to kiss Scott’s ass without acknowledging the line of attack leveled against him. Which is, cute if you’re gonna play both sides without taking an actual stand.
I smell fear, the removal of the PRS label has you in panic, why else would you be here defending them, or is it about the schillings you bring in, dont want to risk that extra income.
You know, what made my job fun as an SDM instructor (before AMU stole it, who is the SDM equivalent of PRS it seems) really was that we sort of ran fun events like that after the KD and static UKD stuff. We'd find the best ranges and we'd come up with stuff. We had a Hogans Alley type thing that started out 600m, crawling through tunnels, smoke and sims, then moving through the streets where targets only became visible after reaching a certain point. Timed. Everyone used THE SAME SHIT. And it was FUN! So fun the snipers we used for adjunct instructors would come back as students. Best job ever, god I loved shooting and being on the range ALL day, some nights. The classes were run like a competition too, scores written down for individuals and teams each day. There were three categories, NM irons, NM optics, stress shoot totals. Did I say this shit was fun? All done with stock M4's and irons or ACOG, a Harris bipod and a modified M14 sling to be used like a leather 07.
Of course when I started having prototype DMR's made with FF barrels and donated KAC FF tubes, shit changed. I was untouchable (but not being a student I wasn't doing it for score). Enter the arms race, and THAT was where the SDM/DMR gear whore was born, and I helped father the fucker I guess --we were begging for better shit on day one. Military-wise it was a good thing, but apparently those same mechanics ruin shit in the civvie/mob world.
We were training SDM's BUT if you're really into shooting past a couple hundred meters this is the sort of thing that develops naturally! To keep it fun though it has to be kept out of the hands of megalomaniacs and narcissists.
I don't think you could have something where everyone uses the same shit today, in the civvie world, but I do think the idea of whatever finale is held that they do use supplied, identical gear. It's the only way. An MSRP based expenditure cap on gear could help too, spend it however you like but you only get $xxxx or whatever --that'll attract non-millionaires and others who can't keep up with the arms race and have to rely on their skills.
The arms race assholes really belong over in some kind of BR anyway where anything goes. I mean, that's what it sounds like they're trying to turn it into to me.
Of course when I started having prototype DMR's made with FF barrels and donated KAC FF tubes, shit changed. I was untouchable (but not being a student I wasn't doing it for score). Enter the arms race, and THAT was where the SDM/DMR gear whore was born, and I helped father the fucker I guess --we were begging for better shit on day one. Military-wise it was a good thing, but apparently those same mechanics ruin shit in the civvie/mob world.
We were training SDM's BUT if you're really into shooting past a couple hundred meters this is the sort of thing that develops naturally! To keep it fun though it has to be kept out of the hands of megalomaniacs and narcissists.
I don't think you could have something where everyone uses the same shit today, in the civvie world, but I do think the idea of whatever finale is held that they do use supplied, identical gear. It's the only way. An MSRP based expenditure cap on gear could help too, spend it however you like but you only get $xxxx or whatever --that'll attract non-millionaires and others who can't keep up with the arms race and have to rely on their skills.
The arms race assholes really belong over in some kind of BR anyway where anything goes. I mean, that's what it sounds like they're trying to turn it into to me.
I'm assuming you didn't create stupid and unrealistic rules to follow for the students? You let them think and adapt to the situation, and shoot it as they formulated a plan and improvised with what they had on hand?
I see as we evolved in PR over the years, both MDs and many shooters don't like people thinking outside the box, and improvising. They start crying that it's unfair that someone came along and shot the stage differently than they did. My answer always is, you should of thought about it first.
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Depends. There’s a difference in being creative and obviously circumventing the intent of the stage.
Though we’ve been doing this long enough, if an MD doesn’t want something to happen, they should write it in the cof.
I would mostly agree with your statement, however the road we've travel in many matches the past few years, like those in PRS and NRL, the "intent" often is a wild fantasy stage dreamed up or copied that shouldn't be in a match, especially one that purportedly is supposed to be a field match or practical in nature.
My heart burn with that style of match, just advertise it as a circus style event, so I don't waste my ammo and money shooting the match.
I've said it to often to many MDs... You have an infinite amount of land with natural terrain, and you have us shooting off of a bag full of beach balls, what were you thinking?
And he’s still here, the prs forum called and it want’s it village idiot back
As we used to say in the Marines, good to be hard, hard to be smart
As we used to say in the Marines, good to be hard, hard to be smart
Reminds me of watching my cat play with a mouse. Birddog guess which one you are? LOL
I was debating after the drama of the prs finale whether or not to shoot the prs Leupold classic and some here said not to waste my money since I was an average local shooter but had never done a 2 day match. Of all people Matt Alwine spoke up and said to do it and it was the best $300 spent. As a south texas guy I ended up shooting with Morgun King and Matt Alwine and several other amazing shooters. I basically got a two day lesson from several of the best shooters in the country. What a fantastic experience! Stop the whining and go shoot. Ignore the soap opera and have fun. Some folks have forgotten what most of us average shooters are doing and just trying to improve ourselves each time out.
I learned if there’s a cargo net stage they don’t like you to shoot it prone.
Insults people and trying to make the point that insulting him is "not a valid argument, that's a defense mechanism from someone who has run out of anything else to say." Hmmm........
Hi,
So is it too early for:
Jump Jump Jump Jump Jump........(Forum Suicide in 3, 2..)?
Sincerely,
Theis
So is it too early for:
Jump Jump Jump Jump Jump........(Forum Suicide in 3, 2..)?
Sincerely,
Theis
I personally don't give 2 shits about affiliations. I'll shoot what's within driving distance and support local MDs if possible. We have our own small club with about 15 members where we meet up at 1 of 3 ranges and have some fun. Low cost, round count under 60, and a good time.
Keep.doing what you’re doing! MDs are going to struggle this year with way less shooters. The more we get out and shoot the better it will be.
The comment right above yours is going to be a key item for matches in all shooting disciplines, round count.
I am not sure about that. Leopold classic had 180 at $300 a pop. people seem to like drama on this thread....it sells. I like to shoot and learn and improve.
I hope you’re right... lots of talk about people slowing up their shooting though this year if components don’t return to normal. The Altus match isn’t full yet and we are less than a month out from it, it used to sell out within a day or two.
Once upon a time, I heard a budding young, championship water ski competitor talk about skiing at the pro tour. Before “cruise control” (which is an electronic throttle control to maintain speed no matter how hard the skier pulled) the drivers would increase power over what was needed when the skier was pulling towards the jump. Then the driver would back down on power after the skier had launched off of the jump so that his time through the course was within tolerance.
The Young Skier stated; “they don’t care about the rules, they just want everyone to ski better.”
What one hell of a way to put on a show for the fans and make the jumpers feel good about themselves. Its all about marketing. The competitors liked the way they skied and the distances they were able to achieve and the other paying group, the spectators got to see a great show.
Never saw anyone complaining to the officials. Mad Maybe because they skied poorly but not because the organizers / officials / drivers did a bad job. It was about seeing people with smiles on their faces.
Water skiing is a hard sport. Guess what else is not easy? When people wake up and quit marrying themselves to the hard and fast “its my way or the highway” method of thinking, only then will a sport continue to be self sustaining over the long run.
to quote an old line, if any of this does not make sense, please ignore
The Young Skier stated; “they don’t care about the rules, they just want everyone to ski better.”
What one hell of a way to put on a show for the fans and make the jumpers feel good about themselves. Its all about marketing. The competitors liked the way they skied and the distances they were able to achieve and the other paying group, the spectators got to see a great show.
Never saw anyone complaining to the officials. Mad Maybe because they skied poorly but not because the organizers / officials / drivers did a bad job. It was about seeing people with smiles on their faces.
Water skiing is a hard sport. Guess what else is not easy? When people wake up and quit marrying themselves to the hard and fast “its my way or the highway” method of thinking, only then will a sport continue to be self sustaining over the long run.
to quote an old line, if any of this does not make sense, please ignore
My first match as well (SHC 2015)That was my first PRS match ever. I was an RO on stage B1, "the box".
It was a shit show when it came to some of the folks during the alibi period. But it still remains one of the most fun CoF's I've ever shot.
The car stage (E-2?), the mover and the "Tower of Power" still remain in my mind as epic stages...
The weather was brutal.
I was an RO on A1 with @Foul Mike. It was the positional stage that everyone hated. It also had a handgun element. I met some really great people that weekend but yeah the prize table and alibi periods were a train derailment.
I totally hosed that stage. 5 Mil revs on my scope (which was still common back then) and was a full rev off from the previous stage (which IIRC, was the long range, barrel prop, where you shot support side, top, and stong side). My offhand shots on your stage were all over the top of the targets. I remember thinking WTF, how can I be missing? Lol.
I learned a metric shit ton from that first national level match...
I think we can all agree there is a lot of equipment advancements and gaming going on, but if you look at the PRS finale from just this past year, what equipment won?
1. Rem 700 clone action, a relatively plain stock (Foundation), a 10+ year old scope design.
2. Same as above
4. Same as above
5. Same as above
6. Same as above, but with a Manners (and a medium palma barrel, only 16 pounds)
etc...
Coming full circle with it, a lot of guys are taking off their full 1.25" barrels and going back to something more manageable, switching to shorter barrels, going back to simple stocks from chassis' that have a million adjustments and attachments, ditching a big floppy game changer in favor of a smaller sand filled bag (I saw a guy win with a small homemade denim sandbag), and learning how to hold their rifles still without a bunch of extraneous support. While the big heavy guns, multiple bags, gamer plates, etc can certainly help the low/mid pack shooter, but it's not going to win against an adaptable shooter than can hold his gun still on his own, and make wind calls without having to ask the guy in front of him.
I personally think the gear race is virtually gone at the top level, it's not even worth mentioning. But I think the gear race is real at the low / mid pack level, and is slowing progress for most of them, and this is what I have issues with. The sooner they show up and learn how to adapt themselves to the stage vs dragging around a ton of mechanical supports, the faster they too will be competing at the top level. It's just going to require MD's to create stages that reward adaptability vs gaming.
Simple is adaptable, adaptable equals consistent, consistency wins.
Where's this "PRS Forum"?
It’s coming, they just didn’t turn it on yet, it will be a similar style as they used the same software.
I spoke with them for about 2 hours yesterday and the the cut to the chase answer is,
I am throwing in the white towel, you all win.
I don’t feel we agreed on a single question, I don’t see a single change happening, everything is grand, people are content, so who am I to question it... it was just a circular discussion. I really felt i was wasting everyone’s time and once that happens, its not worth it. Time is too short to waste on this anymore.
If you send me complaint, I will not open it, just be deleted. You’re welcome to discuss them all you want on SH, but my advise would be something else. The interest is not there, they only see success, so who are we to complain.
You all enjoy, I think I may just change the SHC to something I want to do, won’t be this year, it’s part of the RTC program as it’s been. I‘ll move the day to a time of a the year I can put more focus into it. Then just create the single event I might enjoy and forget the rest. Maybe make it invite only and not charge people or something silly, it can become a hangout, lol.
I’m Out, PEACE Shooter‘s —> no wind.
I mean I don't think anyone is ever going back to 260 rem...
I'm still shooting a 308 Win.
SHC in winter would be epic, especially if it’s in the same place as past few years
I do like Carl’s location for the SHC, I think there is a lot of potential around those pieces of property
not sure about winter per say, but Oct, November would be easier for me
not sure about winter per say, but Oct, November would be easier for me
I know for me a June is difficult, in non COVID times, cause that the beginning of peak travel And for you because it’s peak training season. October is a no brainer. Make the cup part of the guardian series
giving back to the Guardian would not be a bad thing, Gary is my favorite MD of all time
But being a standalone there is no reason do anything, I can make the SHC a laboratory for guys
But being a standalone there is no reason do anything, I can make the SHC a laboratory for guys
I am still shooting 260 too
I will make the SHC a 260 match, every 260 gets an extra 3 points for just showing up
I will make the SHC a 260 match, every 260 gets an extra 3 points for just showing up
I am still shooting 260 too
I will make the SHC a 260 match, every 260 gets an extra 3 points for just showing up
Just double check with Shannon to make sure it doesn't conflict with PRS match dates.
Really sorry to hear that there will be no change or improvements or even anyone paying attention to this issue. It is obvious that those heavily involved are satisfied with themselves and their efforts. The $$$ speak much louder than those that have offered input and alternatives. Those that would be heard are completely pigeonholed in their minds as non-shooters and bad apples. It’s easier if they think that way.
We’re good, he can do what he wants, stack as many matches around me as necessary, I’m here for the greater good
I was in a fog, my apologies, should have known better
I was in a fog, my apologies, should have known better
As a not so new shooter, but not too many matches under my belt, after seeing behind the curtain reading the last 10 pages of comments, it has opened my eyes. I’ll just continue to support my club matches, obviously not PRS sanctioned.
being an Aussie expat, the IPRF is something that is needed there. Their gun rights are being eroded every year, and this could give some legitimacy to any PRS-type of match.
being an Aussie expat, the IPRF is something that is needed there. Their gun rights are being eroded every year, and this could give some legitimacy to any PRS-type of match.
And that is my main reason for thinking the IPRF should exist. Secondarily, as a recognized International Sport, it paves the way for transporting legal firearms in and out of countries that have otherwise, very restrictive firearm laws.
The more firearms are viewed as tools in a competitive sport, the more they gain normalcy in these other societies. And IMHO, that's a good thing.
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