Sidearms & Scatterguns Why you DON'T like Glock.
- Thread starter zjmccauley
- Start date
Are you going to refure the statements/make a counter argument.........or just make stupid statements in attempt to pussy foot around the subject?
Actully I never posted anything that really argued against your points in the first place other than to say that I personally don't care for how Glock's point and feel in my hands. Your the one who thinks I'm an idiot for not fighting forty plus years of muscle memory to shoot a gun that I don't care for shooting. I personally think that my choice of carry gun is more reliable than yours. I prefer revolvers by far over semi auto's .. I could use your logic and tell you that your stupid for not carrying a revolver even though I have no idea why you carry and that a revolver may not be the best handgun for you to use.
You sound mad...go ahead and wait. I recommend holding your breath, it will help.
As I mentioned previously, I have nothing to prove to you and really couldn't care less about your pathetic egotistical opinions.
While I understand where your coming from and even agree with it to a certain extent, even comparing revolvers to modern service pistols is a jest. It's hard to take someone serious who cannot tell the difference between the two.
I like a good model 19, 27 or 29 smith like anyone. They are works of art from a time when guns were built with skill and attention to detail. And you would still be a moron for carrying them for self defense against two legged critters when there are vastly superior options.
While were at is, lets have police, military and people who carry for self defence just carry a Colt Single Action Army. Afterall, .45LC > 9mm/.40/.45.
And exactly why is it a jest. That statement in itself shows a complete lack of thought. The comparison is very valid when taking the intended use of the particular firearm. I'm far more likely to have to use my handgun to dispatch a wounded animal or drive off a few coyotes that are after my chickens than face down a gang of thugs. If protection from the gang of thugs were my intended use than a 19 round Glock just might be my choice though that choice would be made after much research. The sp101 that I carry does what I want extremely well with .38 special loads that are comfortable to shoot and I have the option of some very potent .357 magnum loads if needed. I understand that this site is geared towards the military and law enforcement side of things but that is not the only purpose firearms fill.
Carrying in the wilderness is not the same as carrying for personal protection from people.
It would not be hard to imagine someone carrying a G20, M29 or other heavy revolvers for protection from animals WITH a secondary purpose of protection from people. It's a calculated decision. I used to carry a Model 19 with .357 loads when deer hunting durring rifle season. It will kill anything in my AO, while providing limited protection from people. The fact is, You are MUCH more likley to encounter people in the woods and get into a dangerous encounter than animals. More people are killed by methheads/criminals/robbers while hunting than actual animals.
I am back to carrying a G19 while hunting beacuse its more practical, and is a better overall solution (95% for people and 75% for animals) opposed to (25% for people and 85% for people with the .357). Numbers are pulled out of my ass but prove the thought process.
But there is a distinction. A G26 carrys as small as a SP101 or 638/642. It has more rounds, fires faster, has better sights, and the reload is MUCH quicker. If small CCW is the probelm, then there are other solutions as well.
For a full size or compact service pistol, they do not compare. Revolvers have had their time, and that is WAY in the past. They are nostalgic or have niche purposes like hunting or some sport shooting, but as people stoppers, they are way past their prime. Like shotguns, they will kill someone, which devistating effect if hits on vitals are scored, but the other drawbacks make them 100% obseolte to other solutions like Carbines/Rifles. 1930 called, they want their wheelguns back.
The xD is still a hunk over overpriced, unreliable piece of croation shit. The glock is still the pistol ALL others are judged by. The VP9 may very well be the pistol to knock the Glock of it's petestal. Time will tell.
It would not be hard to imagine someone carrying a G20, M29 or other heavy revolvers for protection from animals WITH a secondary purpose of protection from people. It's a calculated decision. I used to carry a Model 19 with .357 loads when deer hunting durring rifle season. It will kill anything in my AO, while providing limited protection from people. The fact is, You are MUCH more likley to encounter people in the woods and get into a dangerous encounter than animals. More people are killed by methheads/criminals/robbers while hunting than actual animals.
I am back to carrying a G19 while hunting beacuse its more practical, and is a better overall solution (95% for people and 75% for animals) opposed to (25% for people and 85% for people with the .357). Numbers are pulled out of my ass but prove the thought process.
But there is a distinction. A G26 carrys as small as a SP101 or 638/642. It has more rounds, fires faster, has better sights, and the reload is MUCH quicker. If small CCW is the probelm, then there are other solutions as well.
For a full size or compact service pistol, they do not compare. Revolvers have had their time, and that is WAY in the past. They are nostalgic or have niche purposes like hunting or some sport shooting, but as people stoppers, they are way past their prime. Like shotguns, they will kill someone, which devistating effect if hits on vitals are scored, but the other drawbacks make them 100% obseolte to other solutions like Carbines/Rifles. 1930 called, they want their wheelguns back.
The xD is still a hunk over overpriced, unreliable piece of croation shit. The glock is still the pistol ALL others are judged by. The VP9 may very well be the pistol to knock the Glock of it's petestal. Time will tell.
Yea its not like when a company produces over 6,000,000 guns that some idiot does not use bad reloads or some other dumb shit like never changes wear parts or they hit the darwin lottery. I could spend all day posting blown of pics of everything from 1911's, xD's, M16's, AK's, FAL's, Rem700's ect.......
Your from california, should have realized I was dealing with someone with limited mental capacity off the bat. Jerry's kids need all the help they can get.
Or don't listen to me....Listen to Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, Travis Haley, Kyle Lamb or just about any of the top trainers in the world who have made a living putting rounds into bad guys and probally put more rounds down range in a week than you will in your entire life. They must be wrong too.
Your from california, should have realized I was dealing with someone with limited mental capacity off the bat. Jerry's kids need all the help they can get.
Or don't listen to me....Listen to Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, Travis Haley, Kyle Lamb or just about any of the top trainers in the world who have made a living putting rounds into bad guys and probally put more rounds down range in a week than you will in your entire life. They must be wrong too.
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I am a big fan of Glock's, but they are not the only good reliable pistol on the market. Your defense of them and attack on the choices others have made on a pistol purchase are honestly a bit disturbing. The 3 most common polymer pistols Glock, Springfield XD's, and S&W M&P's, are all fine choices for a role as a service pistol, and personal protection. One might make an argument that Glock's are more reliable than the others, and they may be right but regardless the playing field is very even amongst them.
I was actually just reading this thread for entertainment but what ultimately made me comment was your false statements about the "facts".
1. Glock is actually used in 65% of LE departments across the U.S. not 90%. This claim is based on a 2013 study. Even with that, 65% is impressive, however a big factor in that number is the cost. My opinion is that the percentage will actually get a bit lower in the coming years with more LE departments switching to M&P pistols.
2. Out of 52 countries I found 9 that currently use a Glock as their military sidearm. Even 9 is impressive, but much of this is due to costs and political factors, not just performance.
3. Yes, Glock's have been proven for 30 years. However, A well made 1911 has been proven for 100 years and is still being used today by some U.S. military units as their sidearm of choice, and by certain LE units. So by your logic that should make a 1911 better than a Glock right?
4. Your statement about taking a dirt farmer and teaching them to shoot a glock in a day or two, should hold true for teaching them how to shoot an XD or M&P then too, if not I don't understand why.
Glock's are great pistols, but they are not for everyone. Some people just simply find other pistols to be more of a natural pointer for them and more ergonomic which allows them to shoot better. Not to mention some people just prefer other trigger systems to a Glock's. As a Glock owner and fan I will admit that they are not as ergonomic as M&P pistols. Also, I have yet to see failures as a common issue in the other popular polymer pistols I mentioned, and I see them on a regular basis in use as I am am a pistol instructor and a student myself who enjoys attending courses.
This reply is simply stating my honest unbiased opinion on the matter at hand, and clearing up some of the innacurate points you made. This is really no different than Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. I respect many brands and types of firearms, and own many brands and types of firearms. It baffles me when someone is so biased towards something that they get tunnel vision and look past the actual facts and not just what their biased perception is.
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Your knickers are in a serious twist now, eh? I never said I that Glocks were bad. I just said I preferred the XD. You're obviously a rabid Glock fanboy and everyone who doesn't agree with you is essentially an idiot. I feel bad for all your friends as well as everyone on this board who has endured your asinine and insulting remarks. And now with the ad hominem arguments? When that crap comes out, it's pretty obvious you're grabbing for straws. Like everyone in California is a liberal or an idiot or what? Pffffffffffffffffft. You've got big problems man. Along with the arrogance, I see a healthy dose of prejudice and bigotry.
Grow up would you?
Oh...and by the way, I've probably been shooting guns longer than you've been alive...most certainly far before Glocks were invented.
Been around long enough to recognize a festering a-hole when I see one too...
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There is a reason you can take a dirt farmer and teach him to shoot a glock in a day or two.
There is a reason they are used by 90%+ police/federal agencies.
There is a reason it is the most common military sidearm in the world.
There is a reason the brit's just replaced the P35 (highpower which is similar to 1911 in feel) with G4 Glock 17's.
the glock is used by way less than 90 percent of law enforcement agencies
the glock is used by very few militarys
the glock is no easier to use than other modern handguns
there is a reason they replaced it duh what is it
fuck glocks. they are no better than any other modern pistol. why did the US choose the berreta over the glock because fuck glocks. you cant just make shit up and then call it facts. you sound like james yeager when you do that
There is a reason they are used by 90%+ police/federal agencies.
There is a reason it is the most common military sidearm in the world.
There is a reason the brit's just replaced the P35 (highpower which is similar to 1911 in feel) with G4 Glock 17's.
the glock is used by way less than 90 percent of law enforcement agencies
the glock is used by very few militarys
the glock is no easier to use than other modern handguns
there is a reason they replaced it duh what is it
fuck glocks. they are no better than any other modern pistol. why did the US choose the berreta over the glock because fuck glocks. you cant just make shit up and then call it facts. you sound like james yeager when you do that
Really? LOL care to back that up with actual numbers? Almost every PD who went to the M&P from the Glock is going back to the Glock. Notice how Atlanta PD, one of the largest in the country has already went back to glocks They thought the grass was greener too.
If you need to know the reason the US chose what it did (M9/M11) then you really are as fucking stupid as you sound. LOLOLOL.
Really? You're back? And more foul mouthed than ever...man you just don't know you quit. You got schooled by Metalgear.
Just go back to GlockTalk where you undoubtedly have have several newbie mall ninjas hanging on your every word.
What a loser.
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Disagree. The M&P is flawed out of the box and STILL has engineering deficiencies that result in firing out of battery and a shitty barrel lockup that doesn't lend well to accuracy. Lets not even get to rust out of the box and the abomination of a trigger/sear group that requires a $200 replacement to become serviceable. With that being said, its still a vasty superior pistol to the XD. That is pretty telling....
Please tell me what other pistols are use by other military s, that are superior to glocks. The Most ELITE units in the world, all shoot glocks and HK's. Delta, Rangers, SEALS, SF, GSG-9, SAS, ect.... All shoot either HK or Glocks. Yea there are some other shit sprinkled in there and plenty of non gun guys or followers who just use whatever they are issued, but the fact remains.... The BEST combat shooters in the world almost all shoot glocks. Is this some sort of coincidence? Do they get some kind of super special glocks with fairy dust? Most countries shoot domestic guns if they can, or shoot what is provided via FMS. Those that are hindered by neither, and know what the fuck is up, usually chose HK's or Glocks.
You are cherry picking information. One of the BEST 1911 builders in the world, and the former pistol instructor & one of the founders of IDPA is Larry Vickers. He will be the first to tell you, the 1911 has seen its day. Just because a few special snowflakes want to ignore reason, does not make it a good idea. You have no fathomable idea how much money and maintenance it takes to keep a 1911 running durring heaving firing schedules. There is a reason most operators were issued 3 guns. At any given time, 1 or 2 were down for maintenance.
No one is saying glocks are perfect. They are just ONE of the right solutions to certain problems. Natural pointer and all this bullshit is just that, bullshit. Pistol shooting is fucking hard. There is no other way to put it. Its magnitudes harder to not only train to proficency, but to maintance proficency with a pistol then with a rifle/carbine. Most people can't shoot for dick. Training fixes this. What you think you know about pistol shooting (and I admit I am not a great shot with one, hence why I train) and reality are not the same. Too many guns&ammo and internet bullshity urban legend shit.... just like most of this thread, prove most people don't know dick.
How many rounds do you see down range a week? Because the top instructors in the world do not sugar coat this shit. They know what works and what doesn't work. Low round count, low sample size bullshit is just that. If you aren't putting 500-1200rnds through the gun each training day, you aren't doing anything. Feel free to search out their opinions. Ask any of the most respected guys in the industry (some lurk here) what they think about XD's.
Its not a Ford vs chevy, its more like Toyota vs some shitty Chinese brand that costs less but leaves you stranded on the side of the road in the middle of a snowstorm.
Like I said glock is not perfect, but compared to those mentioned, its not even close.
And how long have you been here?
You haven't even been here a month and you pretend to know how shit works..... go back to your homework, 3 oranges and 5 apples makes 8 in case you were stumped.
Yea sorry Rob, It was already sent before I saw your post....
I'll take it down if you want.
Any gun without a manual safety is considered more dangerous, especially upon reholster with a chambered round. SA/DA with a manual safety/decocker would be considered the safest. The only exterior safety a Glock has is a trigger bar which can still have AD's if caught or hung up
Considered by who? No gun pulls it's own trigger. Look at the holster before reholstering, keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Follow these rules , and there is no reason to consider any striker fired gun less safe than any other quality firearm, safety or no .
Yes in a perfect world those rules would prevent any accidents BUT we are not in a perfect world and as humans we are not without flaw either that is why we call them accidents.
Well the flip side is when you need the gun and seconds count, you can't fire it beacuse its on safe, you don't have a round chambered, or you cannot deactive the saftey.
If you want a VERY good reason why grip safteys and the other silly lawyer made shit are bad ideas, read this AAR : My CCW Shooting AAR--Now with More Graphic Pics on pg 29 & 30 - AR15.COM
Guns are as safe as the person who shoots it. There have been PLENTY of officers/enlisted who have shot/killed themselves from ND or plain stupidity with the M9. It's one of the more "safe" pistols.
This is one of the reasons I will only carry glocks and HK's with light LEM. NO safteys, no levers or other bullshit to hinder when I need the gun RFN to fire.
Even highly trained and conditioned shooters fuck up durring an incident, you have no idea what it's like unless you have been through them. There are books written about the pyschological side, but lets not get into that.
If glocks were so unsafe, then why are the they most widely used LE sidearm, where they are fired little and handled all the time by users with very minimal training?
Exactly, someone would have to violate at least two of the four cardial saftey rules when handling a gun in order to have a ND and shoot someone.
If someone cannot be trusted with a glock or other striker service gun, then they should not be trusted to handle any gun.
Darwinism failed to cull them from the herd and our society allowed them to survive when nature would have removed those defective genes from the pool at a much earlier time.
I don't like Glocks because most of the 17s and 19s I've shot fling brass back to the shooter.
My M&P feels more comfortable and shoots pretty good.
My M&P feels more comfortable and shoots pretty good.
I guess it all really boils down to personal preference, even with a gun equipped with a safety your training and familiarity with it should still be second nature, draw-safety off-stance-shoot. The safety goes off as the gun comes up to position no time lost. But you are quite right when the shit hits the fan even the most highly trained and experienced professionals can choke.
You must have lived in a bubble outside of 2011-2012. This is when Glock had issues with flinging brass back. For the 30 years before it was never a problem and has since been fixed.
What about resale value and value retention? Do Glocks hold their value better than other brands?
You ever been in a car accident? EVER? So can I call you a negligent driver? You ever spilled a glass of milk? SHIT CAN HAPPEN EVEN TO THE VERY BEST AND MOST INTELLIGENT OF US!!!
Of course we have to do the VERY BEST we can to be safe especially with firearms! but sometimes shit happens, it just does. With firearms there are no do-overs that bullet can't be taken back.
Look at what happened with the 9 year old girl and the UZI that killed that range officer he thought he was in in perfect control.
How many have died from friendly fire?
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A safety is just a mechanical device on a firearm that CAN fail. You should NEVER rely on a safety. The biggest and only real safety on any firearm is your finger. Firearms don't just go off on themselves, you should ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until coming up on target and ready to shoot. I teach this a couple times a month and by the end of a course a student may be annoyed with how many times they hear the words "finger off the trigger" come out of my mouth, but it will be drilled into their head.
As far as the tragic accident with the little girl at the range shooting the instructor, it is honestly the instructors fault for being so irresponsible. Why would anyone put a full auto firearm in a childs hand? At that age a child should be shooting air guns or single shot or semi auto 22 lr at most. It is no different than putting a DE 50AE or S&W 500 in the hand of a person shooting for their first time, pure stupidity.
I am of the school that you dont look at the holster while reholstering unless absolutely necessary. In a threat environment you should have your head up searching for other threats.
What does resale value have to do with anything? Its a tool, and one that will last your lifetime if you take care of it.
When people talk about resale of guns, it makes it VERY hard to take anything they say seriously. They are not even on the right problem.
With hat being said, all guns hold their values pretty well. Most handguns sell for new price when used on the secondary FTF market. People are willing to pay more to not have their named tied into an FBI, ATF or State database.
You buy the best tool for the job, all things being equal. Not everyone can afford the best, but there are distinctions.
I personally prefer Gen 1 and 2 glocks. Used guns are great, someone else already paid the tax and started the break in process. I don't really trust a gun till its had about 1500-2000 rounds through it wear parts in together. They can be found for less than $400, are already broken in and if I decide to chop/mod them, it just works. I have a $1k HK45c getting butcher right as we speak. Right with it are a brand new FDE g19, and older OD G19 and a police trade in G17 I picked up last year.
ou think I give a shit about resale value? I will pass these guns down to my kids one day, and in the event they will ever need to be used in anger, they will be set up for it optimally.
If there is a threat why are you reholstering?
Which is what many moronic law enforcemant and wanabe trainers push. In a perfect world everyone would only need 1 round per target and could do it blindfolded.
There is NOTHING wrong with looking at a holster when reholstering. In fact, if you are going to be holstering the weapon, the threat has been reduced enough that deadly force is no longer on the table and is there really a risk? Now I agree with you that people SHOULD be able to do it without looking just on feel alone. Its not really that hard. But people are idiots and new shooters are scared. I would rather someone take the 1 or 2 seconds to safely reholster for the novice.
Some trainers push this shit and it's a surefire sign that you need to find a new trainer. If Larry Vickers, Travis Haley and Ken Hackthorn do not have a problem with the shooter looking at his reholster, then NO trainer should have a problem.
reasons i don't like Glock:
1- it's an ugly, aesthetically unappealing gun
2- the grip angle has me pointing it upwards (close to 20 years of Sig, Beretta and 1911 pistols)
3- the finger grooves don't fit my smaller-than-average hands, like Hogue grips
4- to make a Glock into a nice gun, the physical trigger, sights, slide-lock, and disconnector all need to be replaced
5- i haven't found a SINGLE polymer gun that i LIKE.
6- polygonal rifling is a no-go for lead bullets
i will say, when i focus on the shortcomings of the Glock design, and mentally pay attention to the basic fundamentals, i shoot them very well.
1- it's an ugly, aesthetically unappealing gun
2- the grip angle has me pointing it upwards (close to 20 years of Sig, Beretta and 1911 pistols)
3- the finger grooves don't fit my smaller-than-average hands, like Hogue grips
4- to make a Glock into a nice gun, the physical trigger, sights, slide-lock, and disconnector all need to be replaced
5- i haven't found a SINGLE polymer gun that i LIKE.
6- polygonal rifling is a no-go for lead bullets
i will say, when i focus on the shortcomings of the Glock design, and mentally pay attention to the basic fundamentals, i shoot them very well.
Resale value would be considered important to someone that wanted to "upgrade" possibly to a newer model or different caliber. Or worst case scenario in a "need cash now" situation.
Finger off the trigger until ready to shoot is one of the golden rules to safe firearm handling, and can be a bad habit that is hard to break which is why you find yourself repeating the command, I have seen many shooters find this rule hard to follow.
I would guess to have a manual safety fail would be extremely rare?
Finger off the trigger until ready to shoot is one of the golden rules to safe firearm handling, and can be a bad habit that is hard to break which is why you find yourself repeating the command, I have seen many shooters find this rule hard to follow.
I would guess to have a manual safety fail would be extremely rare?
The ability to re-holster while maintaining eyes on a subject when transitioning from lethal to less lethal is a very valid point for law enforcement.
And I love my Glocks. All six of them.
I for one am not a Glock fan boy but have come to learn I shoot them the best. I to own and have shot many guns. hk, Sig, S&W, 1911, berretta, Steyr.Glock was my last choice and other than my HKP7 is my go to firearm for everything from competitive shooting to carry. But that doesn't mean my other firearms suck. Just means I shoot it the best. My wife prefers her M&P.
Why you DON'T like Glock?
Who said that? Actually I like Glocks. More important...I Trust Glocks.
Who said that? Actually I like Glocks. More important...I Trust Glocks.
Over 40 plus years of driving, been involved in four auto crashes. I was the neglegent driver on one occassion. Don't drink much milk, but I have spilled a beer or three. Had a negelent discharge once. Fortunately, I did not violate any other rules, so the bullet stuck the berm downrange. Wasn't on site when the instructor was killed, but he most likely did something wrong.
What we call "accidents" are almost always caused by someone doing something they should not.
Agreed ^^^^ but the ability to see these things coming or about to happen is what separates the dumbasses from the more intelligent of us all.
Cobracutter,
I have to step in here and correct some of your false statements. Please don't take any of this personally as I do understand you are just trying to prove your point that Glocks are great combat handguns. Honestly I agree they are great pistols but are not the end all be all of handguns.
First off I know of several large Police Departments that do allow carry of the M&P and XD. How do I know? I carry an M&P and work for one of the top 30 largest agencies in the country. I know of many other large agencies that also allow them. Most of those agencies run the pistols through a pretty thorough selection process before allowing them to be carried. BTW there were several H&K pistols that failed those tests and we're not approved. The H&K pistols that were approved were recently removed from our authorized list since some broke and H&K customer service was pure shit even to a large agency. We have had no known failures with the M&P so far. Glocks have a great track record too with very few failures over many years.
One of your firearms training experts you keep mentioning also has a track history of using the M&P. That person is Travis Haley. Watch all his Magpul training videos and check out the M&P in his holster. I would not put too much stock in what those trainers say because most of them are paid to use what is in their holster or get some form of kickbacks for it, not because they are using the best of the best....
Just my two cents....
I have to step in here and correct some of your false statements. Please don't take any of this personally as I do understand you are just trying to prove your point that Glocks are great combat handguns. Honestly I agree they are great pistols but are not the end all be all of handguns.
First off I know of several large Police Departments that do allow carry of the M&P and XD. How do I know? I carry an M&P and work for one of the top 30 largest agencies in the country. I know of many other large agencies that also allow them. Most of those agencies run the pistols through a pretty thorough selection process before allowing them to be carried. BTW there were several H&K pistols that failed those tests and we're not approved. The H&K pistols that were approved were recently removed from our authorized list since some broke and H&K customer service was pure shit even to a large agency. We have had no known failures with the M&P so far. Glocks have a great track record too with very few failures over many years.
One of your firearms training experts you keep mentioning also has a track history of using the M&P. That person is Travis Haley. Watch all his Magpul training videos and check out the M&P in his holster. I would not put too much stock in what those trainers say because most of them are paid to use what is in their holster or get some form of kickbacks for it, not because they are using the best of the best....
Just my two cents....
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Thanks for the info. However there is a big difference between being issued by a large department and letting officers buy what they want (which is common in the west and south).
Scenario 1: Police department is looking for new issued guns. Does an analysis, T&E and or buys based on what another agency does. Gets the guns and "support"
Scenario 2: Guy gets hired as police. Is either given a small stipend or told to buy what he wants. Since most cops don't know their ass from hole in the ground (like most civilians) about guns, he buys the cheapest gun he can get away with. It's not like the cops here in MD/DC/VA who can start around $50K a year and easily push $100K with overtime. So he buys a cheap gun and doesn't know any better.
There is a HUGE difference between an individual officer purchase, a small department purchase and a large agency purchase. Look at what the large agencies buy. Also notice, Atlanta PD is not getting rid of the M&P going back to the Glock because of the massive amount of issues with them. Texas DPS & NC State Troopers also got rid of theirs over same issues. Even agencies get caught up in the latest/greatest thinking the grass is always greener. Who knows, if their armorers or people doing the T&E are even competent?
Love to hear more about the HK, considering it usually tops most tests in performance but is either not chosen because of price or lack of a striker variant.
Your right about the trainers in their videos. Actually take their classes and talk to them offline, and you will get no bs answers. They know what works and what doesn't because guys bring different gear all the time.
Depite all that, there are still serious issues with the M&P. Some have been fixed, and some haven't. They took an older design, cleaned up some lines to make it pretty, and sold it as the M&P. It still has the same accuracy issues, it still has an absolute shit trigger that needs $200 in parts/work to be serviceable. It still has barrel lock up issues that are one of the reasons for accuracy issues. Some are better than others, but thats more to do with manufacturing variability. Looks like they fixed the rusting issues and a couple of others so they get credit for that.
Bottom line, people who have a HIGH probability of getting into a gunfight, and can choose their gear..... usually have one of two brands strapped to their hip. S&W and Springfield they are not.
Sir,
All these problems with the M&P you speak of... Do you know of them by personal experience or just bases upon Internet rumor / what some big name trainer told you?
I know for a fact the M&P was put through a very professional and thorough test here as one of the guys doing it was a die hard Glock guy and admitted he wanted the gun to fail. It didn't.
As of right now there are over 300 agencies including some large ones like Detroit PD Cincinnati PD, Colorado State Patrol, Charlotte PD and Denver PD to name a few. None of those agencies are reporting problems with them. As for the ones you named that dropped the M&P so you know anything other than what you read online? Sure there is not way more to the story? Well I will tell you now there is....
Texas DPS a certian person in a fairly high rank stated something to the effect that they will never carry some sissy plastic pistol as long as he is around. BTW they use Sig handguns not Glock or H&K. A source i know confirmed there is way more to the story and it was not because of failures.
Atlanta PD.... LMAO that Glock press release says it all but incase you didn't catch on it was pure politics and you are a fool if you don't see it. What state are US Glocks made in? Hmmm GA is written on the slide of mine interesting..... How many jobs did Glock say they created there? Word from someone I know out there was that it was a political move plain and simple.
NC State don't know anyone there and don't know any further details like I do from the other two where I have been told it was all political. It's interesting from the story I read online they use .357sig and now carry Sig 226's. It's also interesting that they were in no rush to pull them all out of service saying the M&P issues were not a major safety concern. Ever think Sig might have under bid S&W to get the contract?
BTW we trained with some of those high speed low drag operator types that are very likely to be out on the two way range in some unknown place. I didn't see too many Glocks on their hips. I actually think SIG dominated the holsters of those types not Glock or H&K. Granted it's only one such unit I was with but they definitely did not have what you said sould be on their hips (or on their vests).
Since you like to bring up examples why do you seem to forget that many departments dropped the .40 Glocks that were having the well documented issues with weapon mounted lights? Sig and S&W sure won a few contracts after that. There have also been plenty of issues with the Glock and they have been fixed and modified over the years just like the M&P or any new offerings from anyone else.
All I ask is be fair and don't bash everything else baised on what rumors you've heard. Glock pistols are fine weapons and I carried one for a while but the M&P's / Sig's (and many more such as H&K) are also great weapons that are carried by many that do work in harms way and are likely to end up in a gun fight.
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