Worst Value Optic?

[Ronws]

You don’t have the humidity we do in the North East

Actually, yes, we do. The eastern part of the state, especially the closer you get to the Gulf Coast.

 

[Jrb572]

You don’t have the humidity we do in the North East

Still not the point I’m trying to make. Oh and I live in the Midwest with plenty of heat and humidity.

And OP I apologize for the thread derailment.

 

[Rob01]

Enough with the Youtube BS. Next to post about it or off topic is banned.

 

[Huskydriver]

Enough with the Youtube BS. Next to post about it or off topic is banned.

 

[chevy_man]

Stick around long enough and a person can see every brand of scope get dumped on.

So, everyone, and I do mean everyone, craps on Vortex. They have the Razor Gen III 6-36X56 that was just used to make the longest record shot recorded at 4.4 miles. And some people have placed well in PRS competitions with various models, including the Diamondback Tactical 6-24X50. Yeah, supposedly a shit optic there.

People go goo-goo ga-ga over Arken. The set screws on the turrets back out and it happens to others who have a lot of experience with rifles and scopes and the solution is to use vibra tite on the screws. Other scopes do not require that. People talk of using them for hunting but I have not seen people putting them on their PRS or other competition rigs.

However, according to tiborsaurus rex, the Arken has no sun glare as opposed to his Night Force ATACR, which does get glare or wash-out at a close angle to the sun.

But from what I can see, pick an optic that works for you and stick with that. Of course, we cannot afford all the scopes in the world. And believe it or not, videos of the view are not as accurate as you think. The chromatic aberration you might see is not just the coatings on the lens of the scope, it is also an artifact of the camera taking the video.

All scopes look good when you are standing in the store and looking about 30 feet away at another wall.

Problem is, I see some old wive's tales in the stories of scope problems here and there. And humans, well, humans only lie on days that end in the letter 'y'.

But my general rule is that I would not spend more than 1500 on an optic and rings unless it also going to do the dishes and vacuum the carpet. But, then, again, I am not a professional competitor. Plenty of people way smarter than I am can attest to the quality increasing with the price. One bit of wisdom I thought was most important.

When it comes to choosing an optic, decide what your intended use is. Then, choose glass quality over feature set. Maybe one scope holds zero, no shift near the end of turret travel. Great glass but it doesn't have a zero stop. Get that scope and figure out your own redneck way to return to zero. The glass trumps the whiz bang stuff.

I'm not going to depend on home modified turrets or any such nonsense.

Match rifles wear decent glass with the feature set I prefer. I'd rather have a usable reticle, capped windage turret, locking elevation turret, rev indicator on the elevation, and easy to use parallax and mag knobs. Glass is pretty much last as long as it's usable, while tracking/zero consistency is first.


Hunting rifles? Most of them get zero'd and rarely ever get moved again. Glass is top priority only second to holding zero.


Isn't it great to have options?


I'll agree that the Arken and other $500 offerings give up a lot in the glass department to make room for all the rest of the features. I only have a couple rifles wearing sub $800 optics anymore, as I've discovered that I can get what I like in the $1-2k range and I'm ok with it.

 

[Rob01]

View attachment 8184711

Couldn't pistol whip you but that little ban was good shenanigans huh? LOL

 

[Huskydriver]

Couldn't pistol whip you but that little ban was good shenanigans huh? LOL

I'm sure you made a lot of fuds happy with that red banner next to my name this afternoon haha...

So when's this gem of thread getting moved to the pit Rob?

 

[FuhQ]

From my own personal experience and money...

The NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 glass is sub-par at best for the $3,100 MSRP. Glass-wise, it's about a $1,500 scope tops. The parallax is way off, too...At 100 yards, I'm running mine on about 60 yards for clear images. But everything else is phenomenal. The scope is robust, solid, the turrets are amazing (probably the best feeling turrets I have currently), the tracking is true, the ZS is great, and the MIL-XT reticle is awesome... It just lacks tremendously in the glass department for it's price.

 

[FuhQ]

I'll agree that the Arken and other $500 offerings give up a lot in the glass department to make room for all the rest of the features. I only have a couple rifles wearing sub $800 optics anymore, as I've discovered that I can get what I like in the $1-2k range and I'm ok with it.

Nailed it! I'm no longer "a poor", so I have been upgrading every rifle with sub-$800 scopes with Burris XTR-II's while they're on sale at EuroOptic...MSRP was $1,499, and retail was around $1,100. That's the cheapest scope I'll put on anything anymore.

My pool table looks like "scopepocalypse". With all the Vortex and Arken scopes, it looks like a Poor's gun safe threw up all over it.

 

[hafejd30]

From my own personal experience and money...

The NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 glass is sub-par at best for the $3,100 MSRP. Glass-wise, it's about a $1,500 scope tops. The parallax is way off, too...At 100 yards, I'm running mine on about 60 yards for clear images. But everything else is phenomenal. The scope is robust, solid, the turrets are amazing (probably the best feeling turrets I have currently), the tracking is true, the ZS is great, and the MIL-XT reticle is awesome... It just lacks tremendously in the glass department.

NF has a reputation for reliability. Which is what many people pay for. But everything you said here is definitely correct. They were top dogs but have since been leapfrogged

If NF would up the glass a notch, get rid of the tunneling and have a non rotating ocular on the ATACR series especially with the Mil XT reticle it would definitely give ZCO and TT some real competition in the entire class in todays market. It would have to remain reliable however and be similar pricing to ZCO options

 

[BurtG]

NF has a reputation for reliability. Which is what many people pay for. But everything you said here is definitely correct. They were top dogs but have since been leapfrogged

If NF would up the glass a notch, get rid of the tunneling and have a non rotating ocular on the ATACR series especially with the Mil XT reticle it would definitely give ZCO and TT some real competition in the entire class in todays market. It would have to remain reliable however and be similar pricing to ZCO options

Nothing competes with the nx8 2.5-20 and 4-32

 

[Huskydriver]

Nothing competes with the nx8 2.5-20 and 4-32

Sure there is... Lots of glass options with just as terrible glass as those 2 in that price range or lower lol

 

[FuhQ]

NF has a reputation for reliability. Which is what many people pay for. But everything you said here is definitely correct. They were top dogs but have since been leapfrogged

If NF would up the glass a notch, get rid of the tunneling and have a non rotating ocular on the ATACR series especially with the Mil XT reticle it would definitely give ZCO and TT some real competition in the entire class in todays market. It would have to remain reliable however and be similar pricing to ZCO options

Yeah, those are the 3 things I'd like to see fixed on the NF scopes. The glass really needs overhauling for their prices. That rotating ocular is kind of stupid...You'd think they could have figured out a better design by now. Also, the tunneling makes it feel like you're looking through a paper towel tube. EVERY $2,000+ scope should have edge-to-edge clarity with no tunneling (thick black ring) in the image when looking through the scope...Just a clean sharp edge-to-edge image where you don't even see any ring at all.

 

[FuhQ]

Nothing competes with the nx8 2.5-20 and 4-32

If my $3,100 ATACR F1 5-25X56 has lower-quality glass than my $1,300 Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24x50, then I'd guess the much lower-priced NX8 is probably somewhere around the Burris XTR-II 5-25x50... In that case, I'll just save $1,500+ and buy the Burris while it's on sale. It tracks true, has a solid pin zero-stop, has decent turrets, and at least the parallax is semi-close to accurate.

 

[BurtG]

Yeah I can see y’all don’t hunt or use clip ons

Vudu 5-25 fits the size requirements also but glass sucks

 

[BurtG]

Also. Putting Burris and Nightforce in the same sentence.

SMFH

 

[Huskydriver]

Yeah I can see y’all don’t hunt or use clip ons

Vudu 5-25 fits the size requirements also but glass sucks

I use both thermal and passive clip- ons.... Wtf do you even need 25x with a clip on... Might as well run a 1-10 if that's your only criteria.....

What clip on doesn't fall apart at 12x max?

 

[srt-4_uk]

I use both thermal and passive clip- ons.... Wtf do you even need 25x with a clip on... Might as well run a 1-10 if that's your only criteria.....

What clip on doesn't fall apart at 12x max?

You dont. But during the daytime when the clip on isn't on, a 5-25 with adjustable parallax and turrets meant to be dialed are better than a 1-10.

 

[Huskydriver]

You dont. But during the daytime when the clip on isn't on, a 5-25 with adjustable parallax and turrets meant to be dialed are better than a 1-10.

I agree.... And I see 0 need to run a 9 power scope when a 5 does just fine that isn't trash glass ...

Eh @BurtG

 

[Stevo86]

Come shoot in heavy ass mirage or in fog where you can't even see the targets with the likes of a Mk5 or lessor scopes. Both situations happened in the last few months where I could see and hit the target while others took a zero on the stage.

You can obviously be successful with cheaper shit but there is performance penalty, especially in bad weather. Gear doesnt seperate the best shooters but it sure can make life much easier, especially when learning and not having to fight your gear at the same time.

Shit I love my mk5s. I’m in Texas and shoot in the high heat and humidity and I’ve never had this issue…. I also have nightforce, s&b and us optics… they’ve all done well.

Edit: and i shoot an Impact

 

[BurtG]

I use both thermal and passive clip- ons.... Wtf do you even need 25x with a clip on... Might as well run a 1-10 if that's your only criteria.....

What clip on doesn't fall apart at 12x max?

What if I were to tell you people use day scopes. During the day. And want higher magnification during the day. While having a short light low Mag scope for night work.

Also. HISS / INOD. Utc xii somewhat. I know some nv will support higher mag. But nv is for non slaying posers.

 

[Ronws]

Shit I love my mk5s. I’m in Texas and shoot in the high heat and humidity and I’ve never had this issue…. I also have nightforce, s&b and us optics… they’ve all done well.

A colleague of mine who likes Leupold scopes got an Aoudad Sheep with his .300 Win Mag at 250 yards. Dead center of the boiler room. It does the job.

Have they quality issues? Probably so. The only time a company does not send a defective unit out the door is when the doors are closed and locked and people took the day off.

 

[Huskydriver]

What if I were to tell you people use day scopes. During the day. And want higher magnification during the day. While having a short light low Mag scope for night work.

Also. HISS / INOD. Utc xii somewhat. I know some nv will support higher mag. But nv is for non slaying posers.

Then I would tell you to quit being a poor and get a SB 327 high power

 

[FuhQ]

Yeah I can see y’all don’t hunt or use clip ons

Vudu 5-25 fits the size requirements also but glass sucks

Well, maybe we don't all hunt graboids... But I've hunted my entire life, and no I don't use TCO's.

 

[BurtG]

Then I would tell you to quit being a poor and get a SB 327 high power

Misses the Mark on length weight reticle glass quality etc. And tunnels.

Junk

Had a shit and bender 545 and 525. Glass was terrible. NF blows them out the water

 

[BurtG]

Well, maybe we don't all hunt graboids... But I've hunted my entire life, and no I don't use TCO's.

What the f is a TCO?

 

[FuhQ]

Misses the Mark on length weight reticle glass quality etc. And tunnels.

Junk

View attachment 8184959

Had a shit and bender 545 and 525. Glass was terrible. NF blows them out the water

We agree on something... Shit & Bender is overpriced vermillion-tinted 30 year old technology that fanboys are still dumb enough to pay modern prices for. Just like Leupold.

 

[FuhQ]

What the f is a TCO?

If you used them, you should know... TCO = Thermal Clip-On.

 

[BurtG]

If you used them, you should know... TCO = Thermal Clip-On.

Lol I’ve been using them since way back when you had to buy Canadian shit cause you couldn’t buy American stuff.

And never heard that term.

 

[FuhQ]

Lol I’ve been using them since way back when you had to buy Canadian shit cause you couldn’t buy American stuff.

And never heard that term.

Canadian? I think you're confusing me with someone else... The only Canadian optics I'm aware of are ZCO.

Well... That whole American made debate isn't really holding its weight with my NF experience... The Japanese/German/Austrian stuff I own is kicking it's ass...

 

[Secant]

Canadian? I think you're confusing me with someone else... The only Canadian optics I'm aware of are ZCO.

Well... That whole American made debate isn't really holding its weight with my NF experience... The Japanese/German/Austrian stuff I own is kicking it's ass...

ZCO aren’t Canadian made.

Look at the bottom of your NF, it’s not American made.

 

[BurtG]

Canadian? I think you're confusing me with someone else... The only Canadian optics I'm aware of are ZCO.

Well... That whole American made debate isn't really holding its weight with my NF experience... The Japanese/German/Austrian stuff I own is kicking it's ass...

Gsci was the only thermal available to civilians “.

Was a while ago.

 

[FuhQ]

ZCO aren’t Canadian made.

Look at the bottom of your NF, it’s not American made.

 

[ALShooter]

View attachment 8184993

Turn 180° and take another.

 

[FuhQ]

Turn 180° and take another.

Yeah, it says made from PARTS that were imported and domestic. Not that it was made somewhere else.

And at the top is says "Developed ASSEMBLED and Verified in USA". "Assembled" is a synonym for "made".

Also, I don't know of any scope in existence that doesn't at least use SOME imported chinese plastic and rubber parts in them...Even the tippy-top German scopes most-likely use cheap chinese o-rings. Not even Leupold who loves to proclaim "American Made" status, as well.

 

[Secant]

Not mine.

 

[FuhQ]

Not mine.

Well, I know ALL of NF scopes use LOW (Japan) glass, which is where your scope was made. Which is about the highest quality opitcal company in Japan.

But, yall can clearly see where the new production ATACR F1 5-25x56 is made (USA)... I'm sure the reason it says "imported parts" is because they're still importing the glass and lens sets from LOW for them. I doubt NF is polishing their own lenses now.

 

[hafejd30]

I’d have to look but my 4-16’s are made in US. And it’s printed on top of the optic tube in front of the elevation turret. My 7-35 I think is Japan. Not sure on the 4-20

 

[Huskydriver]

OkMisses the Mark on length weight reticle glass quality etc. And tunnels.

Junk

View attachment 8184959

Had a shit and bender 545 and 525. Glass was terrible. NF blows them out the water

It's not sb fault your eyes are bad and you can't have lasik . Crazy thing is it makes sense why NF looks good to you as you have stated how bad your eyes are before.

NF has some of the absolute worst glass I have looked through.... Easily the worst of the "top end" brands lol

Khales, zco,TT,SB, even vortex razors all have better IQ.

I really do think getting this shit show thread back on the shitter that kahles is the worst bang for the buck new followed by NF and Leupold.

SB at current new prices is retarded too.

 

[TylerN]

"Assembled" is a synonym for "made".

Not according to the regulations on origin markings in which is why your scope doesn't say "Made in USA". Assembly is not a synonymous with manufacturing.

 

[BurtG]

It's not sb fault

2 other people said the 545 looked terrible. Like it was horrible.

kahles is the worst

Lol I had a 318i I liked that scope good glass stc




Minox is another great scope. Cheap to buy used and glass second to none with good reticles clicks etc

 

[FuhQ]

Not according to the regulations on origin markings in which is why your scope doesn't say "Made in USA". Assembly is not a synonymous with manufacturing.

Really? Assembly is not synonymous with manufacturing an optic? Because last time I checked, they all had to be assembled somewhere.

Or are they made when a boy scope really likes a girl scope, and they twist their turrets together, and 9 months later the girl scope craps a baby scope out of her objective?

 

[Huskydriver]

2 other people said the 545 looked terrible. Like it was horrible.


Lol I had a 318i I liked that scope good glass stc




Minox is another great scope. Cheap to buy used and glass second to none with good reticles clicks etc

Its a 9x erector.... I mean I have never looked through one but I have heard they suck but not surprised.

I had 3 or 4 kahles 318s. Glass is fine in the 318 but value at new pricing is silly. At 1800-2k that's a solid scope.

 

[Nik H]

Also. Putting Burris and Nightforce in the same sentence.

SMFH

I'll just keep using my inferior NF 7-35 ATACR on my inferior AT

ROFL

 

[Huskydriver]

I'll just keep using my inferior NF 7-35 ATACR on my inferior AT

ROFL

I mean if NF is your jam run it. That AT better be a thumbhole or gtfo guy

 

[TylerN]

Any of the top scopes are bad value. They offer minimal incremental gains over mid tier items at a lot more cost. And brands often have model to model variation; ie S&B 6-36 might be good and 5-45 terrible, or NF 7-35 good, 5-35 mediocre. And with that said with a quick browse of MSRP prices my vote for the worse valued optic would be the S&B 5-45 MRC2 with a T3 reticle for $7,580.

 

[Secant]

Well, I know ALL of NF scopes use LOW (Japan) glass, which is where your scope was made. Which is about the highest quality opitcal company in Japan.

But, yall can clearly see where the new production ATACR F1 5-25x56 is made (USA)... I'm sure the reason it says "imported parts" is because they're still importing the glass and lens sets from LOW for them. I doubt NF is polishing their own lenses now.

Like I said, that 5-25 isn’t mine. The 4-16x42 ATACR used to be marked as “Made” in the USA on the top of the main tube in front of the elevation turret. My 4-16’s now have the same weasel words as your 5-25 on the bottom - they obvious do not meet the regs to be marked as “Made in the USA”.

The 7-35 are marked as made in Japan. I believe the entire SHV line are marked as made in Japan. NX8s are marked made in Japan.

As far as ZCO is concerned, mine are marked as made in austria - not Canada. My Tangent is marked Made in Canada tho.

 

[Tex68w]

View attachment 8184993

My ATACR has a DOM of 05/2020 and it says the same. Haven't seen one with the 'Made in USA' on the top of the tube.

 

[Nik H]

Then I would tell you to quit being a poor and get a SB 327 high power

I generally agree with all of your posts but....that is the shittiest scope S&B ever released. I rode that train and was DISAPPOINTED

EDIT to add

I use a ZCO on my MC. It is better in a few ways but I love my NF. Comparing it to a Burris is laughable. My NF tracks perfectly. That is what is important to me

 

[Huskydriver]

I generally agree with all of your posts but....that is the shittiest scope S&B ever released. I rode that train and was DISAPPOINTED

Oh I am aware and was poking at ole Burt gbpse motif...


Again it's a 9x erector... Tough to be the best at everything there