Would you get into 6.5 Grendel in 2024?

[LRRPF52]

AAC just released their 6.5 Grendel factory ammo, sold out instantly.

This brings the active factory ammo SKU count of 2024 to 127 different loads.

123gr Black Tip (.80cpr)
123gr OTM (.80cpr)
123gr FMJ (.75cpr)

 

[ARShooter91]

That's an awesome price, love the Grendel within expectations.

 

[supercorndogs]

I would have bought it just for brass. I wonder how many rounds rhey sold at the price.

 

[pangris]

Happy to give those a whirl...

 

[hlee]

I would have bought it just for brass. I wonder how many rounds rhey sold at the price.

All of them, apparently…

 

[flogxal]

I'm using the JP bolts Noveske supplied with their barrels. Not cheap, $150ish for the bolt itself, but zero problems across 3 of them thus far.

Noveske just released their own proprietary Grendel/ARC BCG with their own branded bolt. They're as proud of that as they are the rest of their stuff but results justify investment. I'm just hoping they have another run of Grendel barrels.

16", 18" would be great .... if anyone is listening...

I have 16" version of this barrel, so far it's seen Hornady Black 123gr and Hornady Amer Gunner 123gr and it likes both of them. I've taken it to 1k on a calm day.

 

[JerkyFreak]

Whenever someone asks if you should by a rifle, the default answer is "YES!".

 

[Shoots 700's]

I would do 6.5 Grendel again. It’s a great round

 

[Thomas Geistman]

I haven’t played around with the more popular 6 ARCyet , but I’ve shot and hunted with my Grendel a lot for several years now. I feel like it’s an agile cartridge if loaded properly can get a lot done. It’s a good compromise if your hunting a variety of game close up. Mostly mine is used thermal hunting. So it’s gotta be able to take down big hogs, but also hit those small fox’s, coyotes, and bobcats. The 123 sst aren’t really fur friendly though. That’s why I’ve been developing a load using the 100gr VT. I’m hoping that will be more fur friendly and when we’re calling I’ll just swap mags. I’ve also taken several small whitetail with it. I think for the AR platform it’s one of the best cartridges aside from 5.56 and still fairly cheap to shoot.

I’ve been running the Rexus(used to be 65outfitters) barrels and I have a 14.5” and a 16” and for a cheap barrel like this it shoots great. Low recoil, never had issues with malfunctions except due to mags. Also have a 20” Aero stainless barrel that I’m gonna rig up soon for longer range stuff.

My only hesitation with the 6mm arc is not enough weight to knock down hogs good enough. But I still want to try it too.

 

[45-90]

I haven’t played around with the more popular 6 ARCyet , but I’ve shot and hunted with my Grendel a lot for several years now. I feel like it’s an agile cartridge if loaded properly can get a lot done. It’s a good compromise if your hunting a variety of game close up. Mostly mine is used thermal hunting. So it’s gotta be able to take down big hogs, but also hit those small fox’s, coyotes, and bobcats. The 123 sst aren’t really fur friendly though. That’s why I’ve been developing a load using the 100gr VT. I’m hoping that will be more fur friendly and when we’re calling I’ll just swap mags. I’ve also taken several small whitetail with it. I think for the AR platform it’s one of the best cartridges aside from 5.56 and still fairly cheap to shoot.

I’ve been running the Rexus(used to be 65outfitters) barrels and I have a 14.5” and a 16” and for a cheap barrel like this it shoots great. Low recoil, never had issues with malfunctions except due to mags. Also have a 20” Aero stainless barrel that I’m gonna rig up soon for longer range stuff.

My only hesitation with the 6mm arc is not enough weight to knock down hogs good enough. But I still want to try it too.

The 6mm ARC with 103 eldx hunting bullets all "knock down" (kill) hogs....about the same as the 6.5 120/123 gr 6.5 Grendel.
A 223 will kill hogs, especially with good hunting bullets.
The 300 Hamr, 8.6 Whisper, or 450 bushmaster would do a good job for the ranges most hog engagements are encountered.
Or a 510 whisper 350 gr super at 2450 fps for 4700 ft-lbs of energy...or go subsonic with a 750 gr Maker, or 1002 gr for 2700 ft at the muzzle and 2000 ft lbs at 1000 yds, for a 1100 fps subsonic load.

There are many calibers to choose from.
The orginial post was, Would you get into a 6.5 grendel in 2024.
My answer is a firm no...it's one of the few I have no desire to own...and I own every caliber I want, from 17 Rem to 50BMG.
Around here, Grendel brass gets turned into 6mm ARC.
Kinda like the AK 47 ho- hum, it will kill hogs too, but I don't want one.
But you go ahead with your choice, I do.
And for me, the 6.5 Grendel is Not one of those, I'd even consider, today.

 

[Jsp556]

Yes, I’ve been documenting the available list of projectiles for 6.5mm since the 2000s. Litz data on the 107gr 6.5 SMK is even better than Sierra states. It’s .462 G1, which makes sense when you put one next to a 123gr A-MAX or ELD-M. 107 SMK has a much longer boat tail.

You won’t be able to tell as a shooter the difference between a .448 and .462 G1 BC behind the gun. Basically difference between .450 and .460, which is nothing. I like the accuracy and consistency of the SMKs though, but you pay for that.

The difference with the 100gr ELD-VT is a little more velocity and double duty as a varminter and light/medium game hunter. Some who have chronographed it are getting 2690fps from 18” Grendels, so hand-loading with CFE223 and LVR will reach 2750fps easily without chasing pressure.

If I was cutting paper looking for X and 10 rind count, I would use SMKs, Bergers, or Scenars.

Since I’m shooting steel, I don’t care so I use Hornady a lot due to price/volume.

Another good one from Sierra is the 105gr Blitzking, which does double duty for TGT and hunting.

10 rounds of factory 100gr Hornady above.
5 rounds of Hornady Black 123 eldm below.
Shot from an 18” barrel.

 

[WindstormSCR]

@LRRPF52 have you ever heard of someone doing a grendel in a roller lock? I was looking at a friend’s PTR32 earlier today and the gears started turning.

Getting my lathe to turn full barrel profiles in a couple months, and have access to a very large arbor press so swapping the barrel *should* be doable.

Thinking a 12.5” barrel for HK93 handguard length?

 

[LRRPF52]

@LRRPF52 have you ever heard of someone doing a grendel in a roller lock? I was looking at a friend’s PTR32 earlier today and the gears started turning.

Getting my lathe to turn full barrel profiles in a couple months, and have access to a very large arbor press so swapping the barrel *should* be doable.

Thinking a 12.5” barrel for HK93 handguard length?

Would be fun but my main concern was ejector damage to the case heads, same problem as with AKs.

I love the Hk33 and have shot it and the Hk53 a bit with the Finns who had them. Magazines would be another thing to consider for the Hk frames.

It’s really hard to depart from the AR-15’s long list of benefits, being the mechanical and ergonomic pinnacle of shoulder-fired self-loaders.

I had thoughts of an Hk53 SD in Grendel with an MP5SD forend and sleeved suppressor.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Would be fun but my main concern was ejector damage to the case heads, same problem as with AKs.

I love the Hk33 and have shot it and the Hk53 a bit with the Finns who had them. Magazines would be another thing to consider for the Hk frames.

It’s really hard to depart from the AR-15’s long list of benefits, being the mechanical and ergonomic pinnacle of shoulder-fired self-loaders.

I had thoughts of an Hk53 SD in Grendel with an MP5SD forend and sleeved suppressor.

My thinking is to use the PTR32 since it uses AK mags, and already shares the case head, and AK grendel mags are pretty reliable. It’s simply a question of making the barrel to spec and fitting it properly

 

[308pirate]

It doesn't take any skill to shoot at 1k. If you can shoot accurate 100 yard groups you can shoot 1k with ease. A ballistic calc does all the work and all you need to do is read wind.

I don't know why people make it seem like its so much harder than it is.

The only one exaggerating anything here is you, trivializing the skill needed to be a truly effective judge of wind's effects.

Just reading a kestrel a plugging in data is far from enough.

 

[MadDuner]

It doesn't take any skill to shoot at 1k. If you can shoot accurate 100 yard groups you can shoot 1k with ease. A ballistic calc does all the work and all you need to do is read wind. As long as you have a cartridge suited to the task, and a reasonable sized target, its cake. Shouldn't take more than 2-3 rounds to walk on target if you cant call wind anyway.

I don't know why people make it seem like its so much harder than it is.

I would like to invite you out to a little spot outside of Flagstaff AZ.
You can hold your Kestral at the firing line and enter your numbers.
Then we'll just sit and wait for the results.
Although I would expect you to decide that our target isn't reasonably sized eventually.

 

[JS8588]

My thinking is to use the PTR32 since it uses AK mags, and already shares the case head, and AK grendel mags are pretty reliable. It’s simply a question of making the barrel to spec and fitting it properly

My immediate thought (and I love the idea) was the new PTR 63 and Duramags.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I would like to invite you out to a little spot outside of Flagstaff AZ.
You can hold your Kestral at the firing line and enter your numbers.
Then we'll just sit and wait for the results.
Although I would expect you to decide that our target isn't reasonably sized eventually.

Yea I've never shot small targets or at high altitude. Never lived in the high desert ROFL. Never competed shooting sub half moa targets at long range on the clock......

Tell us more about your physics defying range and how little you know about everyone's else experience. None of us understand thermals or how wind effects elevation across terrain.

When is your next class so we can all learn from a real master? When's your ajunct teaching dates at hat creek?

 

[MadDuner]

Yea I've never shot small targets or at high altitude. Never lived in the high desert ROFL. Never competed shooting sub half moa targets at long range on the clock......

Tell us more about your physics defying range and how little you know about everyone's else experience. None of us understand thermals or how wind effects elevation across terrain.

When is your next class so we can all learn from a real master? When's your ajunct teaching dates at hat creek?

I invited you.
It's a nice challenging environment.
Always gusting winds from 15-40 mph and changing direction 360* from minute to minute - depending upon which part of the flight path your are talking about.

But you're the one that said no skill was involved - so enter your Kestral numbers into the calculator and show us how it's done!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The only one exaggerating anything here is you, trivializing the skill needed to be a truly effective judge of wind's effects.

Just reading a kestrel a plugging in data is far from enough.

Lol. Where did anyone say anything about a first round impact?

There is a huge difference between making an initial wind call ( which can be easy or difficult) and making corrections based on what you are seeing downrange when you shoot.

It's incredibly easy to make a shot when you can see your splash or miss. It's even easier if you are feeding a shooter the Info.

If you know how the equipment works or have someone to show you, it's very easy.

If you have a few brain cells, you can then take what you see downrange and backwards engineer wind speed, atleast at a full value equivalent.

Something I'm sure you know all about shooting nothing but uspsa.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I invited you.
It's a nice challenging environment.
Always gusting winds from 15-40 mph and changing direction 360* from minute to minute - depending upon which part of the flight path your are talking about.

But you're the one that said no skill was involved - so enter your Kestral numbers into the calculator and show us how it's done!

No skill is involved. Plop a new shooter down, figure out the elevation, read the wind, see where the trace/bullet is missing and make a correction.

You don't live anywhere unique nor are those conditions most competitive shooters haven't shot in a ton of times.

I shot a match this weekend that had a .8l to a 1.3r wind change in less than 30 seconds. Shit happens...you adjust. It's the exception not the rule.

You are making assumptions and being autistic about my statements. If your equipment is sound and your data is good, it's pretty easy to get a new shooter on steel at 1k. If you think it isn't, then you don't know as much as you think it does.

The fudds are always blown away to find out we shoot moa or smaller targets out to a k. They think it's black magic or vudoo. That's what happens when your ignorant and don't understand.

Go shoot Lead farm in high wind the firing line is 360* Then Go shoot Oklahoma in 40mile an hour switching winds. WAR and shoot a bunch of moa targets in switching wind all on the clock and then tell us how hard your home range is....no one is impressed or cares.

 

[MadDuner]

No skill is involved. Plop a new shooter down, figure out the elevation, read the wind, see where the trace/bullet is missing and make a correction.

You don't live anywhere unique nor are those conditions most competitive shooters haven't shot in a ton of times.

I shot a match this weekend that had a .8l to a 1.3r wind change in less than 30 seconds. Shit happens...you adjust. It's the exception not the rule.

You are making assumptions and being autistic about my statements. If your equipment is sound and your data is good, it's pretty easy to get a new shooter on steel at 1k. If you think it isn't, then you don't know as much as you think it does.

The fudds are always blown away to find out we shoot moa or smaller targets out to a k. They think it's black magic or vudoo. That's what happens when your ignorant and don't understand.

Holy shit.
I sure wish the entire fucking world were as accomplished as you seem to think you are.
But then again, how can you be so fucking good if you say no skill is involved?

Which is it?
No skill required?
Or you are so fucking superior that nobody else can be that good?
I'm having difficulty figuring out just how fucking awesome you believe you are from here.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Holy shit.
I sure wish the entire fucking world were as accomplished as you seem to think you are.
But then again, how can you be so fucking good if you say no skill is involved?

Which is it?
No skill required?
Or you are so fucking superior that nobody else can be that good?
I'm having difficulty figuring out just how fucking awesome you believe you are from here.

Again you are taking statements out of context and being autistic about it.

The simple fact is you can take a new shooter and coach them onto steel at 1k. That's it. It's not hard. If you have someone who can guide you. It happens all the time. Now you can disect that however you want or tell us how hard your home range is but no one really cares. You arent special or unique and you haven't experienced anything most decent shooters already haven't.

There is no skill involved in getting someone on steel at 1k.

There is a ton of skill involved In being a acomplished shooter and wind reader.

Both statements can be true.

This is not about me at all. I was just using examples and getting of tangent becuase of the dumb shit you were saying trying to paint my statement Into something that was never intended. It's a grendel thread...so drop it.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

Could you ladies take your catfight elsewhere? Really not adding anything to the discussion

 

[smarcus]

Any data or tests on the AAC Sabre Black Tip ammo? Like a gel test or chrono? Thanks.

 

[ARShooter91]

Send me some and I'll get 100/200m groups and Garmin numbers same day!

 

[Jimbo1]

The 6mm ARC with 103 eldx hunting bullets all "knock down" (kill) hogs....about the same as the 6.5 120/123 gr 6.5 Grendel.
A 223 will kill hogs, especially with good hunting bullets.
The 300 Hamr, 8.6 Whisper, or 450 bushmaster would do a good job for the ranges most hog engagements are encountered.
Or a 510 whisper 350 gr super at 2450 fps for 4700 ft-lbs of energy...or go subsonic with a 750 gr Maker, or 1002 gr for 2700 ft at the muzzle and 2000 ft lbs at 1000 yds, for a 1100 fps subsonic load.

There are many calibers to choose from.
The orginial post was, Would you get into a 6.5 grendel in 2024.
My answer is a firm no...it's one of the few I have no desire to own...and I own every caliber I want, from 17 Rem to 50BMG.
Around here, Grendel brass gets turned into 6mm ARC.
Kinda like the AK 47 ho- hum, it will kill hogs too, but I don't want one.
But you go ahead with your choice, I do.
And for me, the 6.5 Grendel is Not one of those, I'd even consider, today.

Real Hunters don't use 223 on big game, sorry

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Real Hunters don't use 223 on big game, sorry

Ya it's overkill. .22lr is all real pros need.

 

[308pirate]

Lol. Where did anyone say anything about a first round impact?

There is a huge difference between making an initial wind call ( which can be easy or difficult) and making corrections based on what you are seeing downrange when you shoot.

It's incredibly easy to make a shot when you can see your splash or miss. It's even easier if you are feeding a shooter the Info.

If you know how the equipment works or have someone to show you, it's very easy.

If you have a few brain cells, you can then take what you see downrange and backwards engineer wind speed, atleast at a full value equivalent.

Thanks for proving my point

Something I'm sure you know all about shooting nothing but uspsa.

We can spend a friendly day at Thunder Valley or Rayners, then you can decide.

 

[ARShooter91]

Thanks for proving my point



We can spend a friendly day at Thunder Valley or Rayners, then you can decide.

Some of them old retired fellas can shoot out there! Guy shooting first in our squad last month was nailing that 4x6" at 711, 900, and 1k. First round impacts on all 3.

 

[Bakwa]

Real Hunters don't use 223 on big game, sorry

 

[LRRPF52]

Any data or tests on the AAC Sabre Black Tip ammo? Like a gel test or chrono? Thanks.

That stuff sold out so quickly, I didn’t even realize it dropped until it was gone.

 

[WindstormSCR]

My immediate thought (and I love the idea) was the new PTR 63 and Duramags.

Problem is you might also need the trunnion for a 32 as iirc it uses slightly different locking recess geometry

edit to avoid double posting:

idea would be to use these: https://stores.csspecs.com/ak-6-5g-30-round/

seen them used in converted AKs just fine.

 

[keenedge]

AAC just released their 6.5 Grendel factory ammo, sold out instantly.

This brings the active factory ammo SKU count of 2024 to 127 different loads.

123gr Black Tip (.80cpr)
123gr OTM (.80cpr)
123gr FMJ (.75cpr)

Great news LRRPF52, thanks for tracking those factory loads (here and in your posts on the 65Grendel forum).

Of the factory loads you've tried so far, what are your top few faves for hunting, target shooting, and steel at longer ranges?

 

[keenedge]

To the OP question: yes. 6.5G is a great round, with growing adoption, no reason not to check it out. What's not to like? It's a soft-recoiling round that fits in a standard small-frame AR, has widely available parts, factory ammo, and components, and has better ballistics than 5.56 for hunting or longer range shooting with a small-frame gas gun.

Just ordered my second 6.5G upper from Precision Firearms, so I'm in. For my uses, 6.5G is a more appealing all-purpose round than the alternatives that are available for small-frame AR's. Even though some of the newer rounds are optimized to do certain things better than 6.5G (22 Arc is interesting on paper), 6.5G gives me the most bang for the buck in a single do-it-all AR cartridge that offers more than 5.56.

 

[LRRPF52]

Great news LRRPF52, thanks for tracking those factory loads (here and in your posts on the 65Grendel forum).

Of the factory loads you've tried so far, what are your top few faves for hunting, target shooting, and steel at longer ranges?

I really liked the 123gr A-MAX before it was replaced with the 123gr ELDM, which is just as good or better. That has been my go-to factory load since it was released I think for a more affordable option, but that may be changing here with the 100gr ELD-VT from Hornady. That round flies really flat like a 6mm AR, groups really well with a tight waterline at 1000yds so far for me. They did something with the propellant I think to shrink the SDs on the samples that have been measured so far.

For premium ammo, I’ve had great results with Alexander Arms and Precision Firearms, many different loads.

For the cheapest ammo, I’ve had mixed results with the 110gr PPU. Couldn’t get it to group in any of my known-performers (taking multiple Grendels to the range), but then from another box, I go 3-for-3 at 780yds out of the gate, then 1st-round connect at 900yds on an 18” plate. That’s from a 12” Grendel with a 1-6x24 LPVO using the GRSC tree reticle. Crazy. Seems like one box is super-accurate, then another can be all over the place. Last time I shot the 110gr PPU, it was all over at 400yds, so I think it’s just box-to-box variations.

So right now, I’m really liking the 100gr ELD-VT box ammo from Hornady. It gives you basically 6mm AR/ARC performance without having to make the change when I looked at my real-world numbers vs Doppler data for 6mm ARC with 103gr-110gr.

 

[pangris]

For those who are looking to get into the 6.5 Grendel in 2024 - Craddock is about to run some Grendel barrels - 13.9", .750" diameter threaded 5/8x24.

 

[smarcus]

For those who are looking to get into the 6.5 Grendel in 2024 - Craddock is about to run some Grendel barrels - 13.9", .750" diameter threaded 5/8x24.

Are these the RTR barrels? Will they be listed on their site?

 

[River44]

Just ordered or got on order 80% of the parts needed for a 6.5 Grendel build. All that’s left is lower parts kit,stock/grip,buffer tube and spring, scope and mount. Went with a Seekins upper and lower and Satern cut barrel and JP enhanced BCG

 

[keenedge]

So right now, I’m really liking the 100gr ELD-VT box ammo from Hornady. It gives you basically 6mm AR/ARC performance without having to make the change when I looked at my real-world numbers vs Doppler data for 6mm ARC with 103gr-110gr.

It'd be cool if we start to see some more factory 6.5G loadings available in these lighter bullets. It gives 6.5G more flexibility compared to some of the other wildcat calibers--you can go more for long-range performance with the lighter bullets, or more for terminal effect with heavier ones. I need to get some of the 100gr ELD-VT and check it out.

 

[Big Grizz]

I got Hornady Match ammo. Was getting 2,725 out of a BHW 24" 1-8 P3 barrel. Handloads can get 2,850 +/- with 100 gr ELD M'S. So I got 200 qty. 100 ELD VT bullets on the way. I'll be loading these up as soon as they get here.

 

[pangris]

I'm curious to load up some 90s/100s for pigs/deer. There are lots of ways to get it done. Just talked to a guy who went from a Grendel to a 22-250 shooting 35 gr at 1,000,000 FPS - said hitting pigs in the neck is almost always a DRT.

Art, not science. I'd be an 80-90 gr Grendel at 3000+ will yield comparable results.

 

[pangris]

Are these the RTR barrels? Will they be listed on their site?

RTR barrels that should hit the site in 2 weeks

 

[pangris]

RTR 6.5 Grendel 13.9" The Pangris

craddockprecision.com

They're here... apparently I've made an impression with Craddock, but to be clear I have no financial interest in these.

I have to say the .625" ultralight option is intriguing, can't wait to get mine in hand.

Per LRRPF52, there is ammo coming out that will exceed 3000 FPS (+!) out of a 13.9"... we live in a golden age.

 

[rlsmith1]

RTR 6.5 Grendel 13.9" The Pangris

craddockprecision.com

They're here... apparently I've made an impression with Craddock, but to be clear I have no financial interest in these.

I have to say the .625" ultralight option is intriguing, can't wait to get mine in hand.

Per LRRPF52, there is ammo coming out that will exceed 3000 FPS (+!) out of a 13.9"... we live in a golden age.

@LRRPF52 do tell!

 

[BJames]

RTR 6.5 Grendel 13.9" The Pangris

craddockprecision.com

They're here... apparently I've made an impression with Craddock, but to be clear I have no financial interest in these.

I have to say the .625" ultralight option is intriguing, can't wait to get mine in hand.

Per LRRPF52, there is ammo coming out that will exceed 3000 FPS (+!) out of a 13.9"... we live in a golden age.

Just grabbed one, starting my first Grendel build. Any idea whose blanks they’re using?

 

[MK20]

I have the option to buy an unfired Howa mini in 6.5 grendel with a walnut stock for 500. I don't currently own any 6.5 grendel rifles. Do you guys think this would be worth the price of entry?

 

[pangris]

I believe they are using Rock Creek blanks.

The Grendel, at 25, is still evolving - there are more and more ammo options, with some lighter than current offerings cracking through 3000 fps. I'm a Grendel enthusiast so call me biased but for deer its perfect and for pigs it gets the job done if you put it in the right places.

 

[LRRPF52]

@LRRPF52 do tell!

You can already do 2950fps with the 80gr Hammer from a 16” Grendel. 80gr does 3150fps from 24”.

Experiments with machined-down 75gr Hornady GMX (from 120gr GMX) yielded over 3000fps from 18” Grendel several years ago.

What we’re working on now will deliver well over 3300fps from a 12” Grendel without chasing pressure.

13.9” Grendel should be in the 3450fps (3400-3500fps) space.

I’m more excited about the 8.5”, maybe even 7.5”.

This is all part of a multiple technology path culmination, so the kinetic aspects of it are only one area of the overall system.

Think about a tiny little PDW that smokes legacy M16 musket size performance, with a bunch of other things that streamline ancillary systems.

 

[pangris]