I get it , trying to get multiple better aspects out of a short cary rifle. I’m 6’5” 275 lbs so a 16” AR15 Feels like a 22 lr to me. I could cary a 20” but the 24” is a one purpose platform.Where I’ve been chasing the rabbit is in a shorter, more compact AR-15 while increasing performance. Basically a Micro-Recce concept.
The 12” Grendel has been doing that really well for me over the past 7 years.
Think Mk.18 overall profile with better energy on-target than a 24” barrel .223 Rem bolt gun, so a CQB blaster than easily fills as a DM/Sniper System.
The hardest thing is being on the edge of optics developments with shorter and shorter scopes delivering pretty impressive performance, although most are LPVOs with an emphasis on great 1x clarity and exit pupil, vs the types of optics that were favored on SPRs with the smaller Leupolds and NightForce tubes.
The next hardest thing is chasing the "Own The Night" configurations, as some people have woken up to the reality of “Rent the Night” and going passive vs active IR signature.
This past week, I took the SOPMOD Block II with 1-4x LPVO out along with 3 Grendels (12” 17.6”, 18”), since I hadn’t shot that 5.56 blaster in a while. I’m thinking the Gen 3 Razor would go well on it for my terrain/environment.
The idea for me is that I want something maneuverable within tight spaces that also slings lead with really high hit probability at distance, and can also be used to hunt effectively with. The short guns remain about as stable when you bipod and suppress them, though the Mk.12s are kind of a gold standard in weight and stability when shooting from the prone and tripod, mainly due to the RLGS 18” being such a smooth shooter with that suppressor.
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Would you get into 6.5 Grendel in 2024?
- Thread starter KCode
- Start date
Love my 20" and 12.5" Grendels.
I'm sure I'm a caveman but I see a trend line between the Grendel and the 5.56 and the ARC etc are on it.
I think for 0-400 the 12.5 is fantastic walking around general purpose rifle, and the 20" makes 600 seem pretty easy and 800 isn't crazy. 1000 means you are a hobbyist. I'll say I'm confident in mine to be minute of pig out to 600. Working toward burning out the barrel and anticipate staying where I am.
6.8 and 6.5 = I do think the 6.8 may have a slight edge up close and with a shorter barrel, but I'd take money bets that past 500 the Grendel is easier and rides the wind bareback by comparison.
I'm sure I'm a caveman but I see a trend line between the Grendel and the 5.56 and the ARC etc are on it.
I think for 0-400 the 12.5 is fantastic walking around general purpose rifle, and the 20" makes 600 seem pretty easy and 800 isn't crazy. 1000 means you are a hobbyist. I'll say I'm confident in mine to be minute of pig out to 600. Working toward burning out the barrel and anticipate staying where I am.
6.8 and 6.5 = I do think the 6.8 may have a slight edge up close and with a shorter barrel, but I'd take money bets that past 500 the Grendel is easier and rides the wind bareback by comparison.
I have been thinking about building a 6.5 Grendel. I can't say that its dead because some of the guys I hunt with use the 6.5 Grendel and love it. From my experience, every caliber has its peak. I would say that its peak popularity may have gone by....
I dunno. I honestly thought the 6.8 was the more popular of the two when I stopped paying attention for a while.
My buddy with the 6.8 asked for my help with him getting a second gun. I was very surprised to see that the selection and availability of the 6.8 is appreciably less than the Grendel, maybe 4:1 or more. There are several types of factory ammo nearing $1/rd which may not be cheap but it is within reach.
My buddy with the 6.8 asked for my help with him getting a second gun. I was very surprised to see that the selection and availability of the 6.8 is appreciably less than the Grendel, maybe 4:1 or more. There are several types of factory ammo nearing $1/rd which may not be cheap but it is within reach.
Re-reading the thread, I am once again reminded of my annoyance that Sig doesn't make an MCX caliber conversion for 6.5 Grendel or 6ARC.
I like ARs, but I've yet to find a bufferless system that handles either caliber decently (Law ARIC and EWS internal carriers supposedly don't like either very much), and if I'm building a shorty in the current year, going bufferless seems to make more sense than not.
I like ARs, but I've yet to find a bufferless system that handles either caliber decently (Law ARIC and EWS internal carriers supposedly don't like either very much), and if I'm building a shorty in the current year, going bufferless seems to make more sense than not.
I went to the range this very day.
I'm hard pressed to ask for better results. Getting 2550-2600 out of the SST and 2600 and change from the Underwood.
I have found the Underwood to shoot ~ 100 FPS faster out of the shorter barrels, i.e. 12.5 SST is 2300 ish, Underwood hits 2400.
This is 105 yards with an old man at the helm making the rifle look bad.
If I see a 300+ lb pig, I want a Grendel or 308.
I'm hard pressed to ask for better results. Getting 2550-2600 out of the SST and 2600 and change from the Underwood.
I have found the Underwood to shoot ~ 100 FPS faster out of the shorter barrels, i.e. 12.5 SST is 2300 ish, Underwood hits 2400.
This is 105 yards with an old man at the helm making the rifle look bad.
If I see a 300+ lb pig, I want a Grendel or 308.
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Great shooting m8. I love the Grendel. For me it’s just like the little train that could. I am in the process of breaking in my AR15 24” rig. The Grendel is just so versatile. Hunt, defend, target. Just such a great cartridge. The only thing for me that is problematic in the gas gun is with 450 cci primers , you really don’t get pressure signs of any significance until you are way over pressure. Your always chasing velocity along with accuracy and you know that your are pushing the limit on you bolt lugs. Other than that it is just a fun cartridge to shoot. I shoot AR’s and bolt guns from 223’s to 338 win mags. And this by far is the rifle that gets most the love.
My CFE223 loads that exceed the factory ammo velocities are only around 47,000-48,000psi. Love that powder and those loads are easy-button 1st-round connect for me from 600-800yds from 18”. I’ve been using Rem 7.5 since I started loading for it, with maybe a few CCI450s when helping friends get set-up because that’s what they bought.
This new 100gr ELD-VT is changing things though. Seems to basically duplicate or exceed 6mm ARC without having to use a tighter bore/ more bottleneck and chances of pressures spiking. 6.5 Grendel evacuates the bore at just the right rate it seems for common powders used in .223 Rem and .308 Win.
I’m seeing some interesting numbers from Hodgdon’s if you compare the two with the latest data. Looks like not even the 110gr A-TIP 6mm from a 24” ARC can beat the 100gr ELD-VT from an 18” barrel.
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G7 is .226, but G1 is .448.
Sure, there are higher BC projectiles available but it seems to be a well thought out design for intended uses.
Sure, there are higher BC projectiles available but it seems to be a well thought out design for intended uses.
100gr ELD-VT isn't ground breaking. The Sierra 6.5mm 107gr TMK has been on the market for years, has pretty much the same BC, and isn't limited terminally to varmint. TMK is generally regarded as an excellent hunting bullet with match grade performance.
100gr ELD-VT G1 .448
107 TMK G1 .455
Yes, I’ve been documenting the available list of projectiles for 6.5mm since the 2000s. Litz data on the 107gr 6.5 SMK is even better than Sierra states. It’s .462 G1, which makes sense when you put one next to a 123gr A-MAX or ELD-M. 107 SMK has a much longer boat tail.
You won’t be able to tell as a shooter the difference between a .448 and .462 G1 BC behind the gun. Basically difference between .450 and .460, which is nothing. I like the accuracy and consistency of the SMKs though, but you pay for that.
The difference with the 100gr ELD-VT is a little more velocity and double duty as a varminter and light/medium game hunter. Some who have chronographed it are getting 2690fps from 18” Grendels, so hand-loading with CFE223 and LVR will reach 2750fps easily without chasing pressure.
If I was cutting paper looking for X and 10 rind count, I would use SMKs, Bergers, or Scenars.
Since I’m shooting steel, I don’t care so I use Hornady a lot due to price/volume.
Another good one from Sierra is the 105gr Blitzking, which does double duty for TGT and hunting.
80gr Hammer Hunter .312 BC
85gr Hammer Hunter .316 BC
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
85gr Maker REX .270 BC
85gr Maker TREX .370 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC (Intended as varmint, works extremely well on medium game at Grendel velocities)
92gr Power Hammer .290 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC Also works on medium game
95gr Lehigh Defense CC .374 BC
95gr maker REX .310 BC
95gr Maker TREX .400 BC
97gr Absolute Hammer
99gr Hammer Hunter .368 BC
100gr Cutting Edge ESP Raptor .250 BC (with Talon Tip)
100gr Lapua FMJ .250 BC
100gr Lapua FMJ Cutting Edge .250 BC
100gr Sierra Varminter .259 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Lapua Scenar .424 G1/.212 G7
100gr Hornady AMAX .390 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Berger BTHP .370 G1/.193 G7
100gr Hornady ELD-M .385 G1
100gr Lapua Scenar-L
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 G1
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 G1
100gr Barnes Tipped TAC-TX BC not listed
100gr Hornady ELD-VT G1 .448, G7 .226
105gr Sierra Blitzking, .425 G1
105gr Cavity Back MKZ .480 G1
107gr SMK .461 G1/.230 G7
107gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) .445-.455 G1
108gr Scenar .465 G1/.231 G7
109gr Absolute Hammer .406 G1/.203 G7
110gr Lehigh Defense HV Controlled Chaos .538 G1
110gr Maker TREX
115gr Barnes TAC-TX .387 G1
118gr Cavity Back MKZ .505 G1
119gr Lehigh Match Solid Flash Tip
120gr Barnes TAC-X .381 G1
120gr Norma FMJ
120gr Barnes TSX .381 G1
120gr Maker TREX .385 G1
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 G1
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Sierra Tipped Game King .482 G1
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 G1
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 G1
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 G1
120gr Hornady GMX .450 G1
120gr Hornady CX .428 G1
120gr Cutting Edge Match Tactical Hunting .500 BC
120gr Hornady AMAX .465 G1
120gr Sierra Match King .403 G1
120gr Berger Match Target .453 G1/.232 G7
120gr Barnes Match Burner .460 G1
120gr Hornady ELD-M .486 G1
120gr PRVI HPBT
120gr Lapua Scenar-L .497 G1/ .246 G7
122gr Lehigh HV CC .540 G1
123gr Sierra Match King .522 G1/.260 G7 BC
123gr Hornady AMAX .468 G1/.232 G7 BC
123gr Hornady ELD-M .506 G1
123gr Scenar .527 G1/.263 G7
123gr Nosler Custom Competition .465 G1
123gr Fort Scott TUI .587 G1
123gr Hornady SST .462 G1/.230 G7 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
127gr Barnes LRX .468 BC
129gr Hornady SST .495 G1 BC/.247 G7 Litz(1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .495 BC /.247 (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .553 G1/.283 Litz G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco II .485 G1 BC (1.353")
130gr Sierra Tipped Match King .518-.535 G1 BC
130gr Norma Golden Target .548 BC
130gr Norma Diamond .548 BC
130gr Berger Target .552 G1/.282 G7
130gr Berger Hybrid OTM .564 G1/.290 G7 Litz
130gr Hornady ELD-M .554 G1/.297 G7
130gr Nosler RDF .615/.307 G7
136gr Lapua Scenar-L .545 G1/ .274 G7
139gr Scenar .578 G1/.290
140gr Hornady AMAX .600 G1/.299 G7 Litz
140 Berger Match Hybrid TGT .618 G1/.317 G7
142gr SMK .604 G1/.301 G7 Litz
85gr Hammer Hunter .316 BC
85gr Sierra Varminter .225 BC
85gr Maker REX .270 BC
85gr Maker TREX .370 BC
90gr Speer TNT .281 BC (Intended as varmint, works extremely well on medium game at Grendel velocities)
92gr Power Hammer .290 BC
95gr Hornady VMAX .365 BC Also works on medium game
95gr Lehigh Defense CC .374 BC
95gr maker REX .310 BC
95gr Maker TREX .400 BC
97gr Absolute Hammer
99gr Hammer Hunter .368 BC
100gr Cutting Edge ESP Raptor .250 BC (with Talon Tip)
100gr Lapua FMJ .250 BC
100gr Lapua FMJ Cutting Edge .250 BC
100gr Sierra Varminter .259 BC
100gr Nosler Partition Flat-Base .326 BC
100gr Lapua Scenar .424 G1/.212 G7
100gr Hornady AMAX .390 BC
100gr Hornady SP .358 BC
100gr Berger BTHP .370 G1/.193 G7
100gr Hornady ELD-M .385 G1
100gr Lapua Scenar-L
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .350 G1
100gr Barnes TTSX .359 G1
100gr Barnes Tipped TAC-TX BC not listed
100gr Hornady ELD-VT G1 .448, G7 .226
105gr Sierra Blitzking, .425 G1
105gr Cavity Back MKZ .480 G1
107gr SMK .461 G1/.230 G7
107gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) .445-.455 G1
108gr Scenar .465 G1/.231 G7
109gr Absolute Hammer .406 G1/.203 G7
110gr Lehigh Defense HV Controlled Chaos .538 G1
110gr Maker TREX
115gr Barnes TAC-TX .387 G1
118gr Cavity Back MKZ .505 G1
119gr Lehigh Match Solid Flash Tip
120gr Barnes TAC-X .381 G1
120gr Norma FMJ
120gr Barnes TSX .381 G1
120gr Maker TREX .385 G1
120gr Remington Core-Lokt .323 G1
120gr Swift A-Frame .344 BC
120gr North Folk Soft Point Bonded Core
120gr Sierra Tipped Game King .482 G1
120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip .458 G1
120gr Speer Hot Cor .433 BC 1.09"
120gr Sierra Pro-Hunter .368 G1
120gr Barnes TTSX .443 G1
120gr Hornady GMX .450 G1
120gr Hornady CX .428 G1
120gr Cutting Edge Match Tactical Hunting .500 BC
120gr Hornady AMAX .465 G1
120gr Sierra Match King .403 G1
120gr Berger Match Target .453 G1/.232 G7
120gr Barnes Match Burner .460 G1
120gr Hornady ELD-M .486 G1
120gr PRVI HPBT
120gr Lapua Scenar-L .497 G1/ .246 G7
122gr Lehigh HV CC .540 G1
123gr Sierra Match King .522 G1/.260 G7 BC
123gr Hornady AMAX .468 G1/.232 G7 BC
123gr Hornady ELD-M .506 G1
123gr Scenar .527 G1/.263 G7
123gr Nosler Custom Competition .465 G1
123gr Fort Scott TUI .587 G1
123gr Hornady SST .462 G1/.230 G7 BC
125gr Nosler Partition .449 BC (1.17")
127gr Barnes LRX .468 BC
129gr Hornady SST .495 G1 BC/.247 G7 Litz(1.30")
129gr Hornady Interbond .495 BC /.247 (1.25")
129gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point .445 BC (1.187")
129gr Nosler Accubond Long-Range .553 G1/.283 Litz G7
130gr Sierra Game King HPBT .375 (1850-2400fps BC, .355 2400fps+)
130gr Nosler Accubond .488 BC (1.32")
130gr Berger Hunting VLD .552 G1/.282 G7 (1.389")
130gr Barnes TSX .365 BC (1.325")
130gr Swift Scirocco II .485 G1 BC (1.353")
130gr Sierra Tipped Match King .518-.535 G1 BC
130gr Norma Golden Target .548 BC
130gr Norma Diamond .548 BC
130gr Berger Target .552 G1/.282 G7
130gr Berger Hybrid OTM .564 G1/.290 G7 Litz
130gr Hornady ELD-M .554 G1/.297 G7
130gr Nosler RDF .615/.307 G7
136gr Lapua Scenar-L .545 G1/ .274 G7
139gr Scenar .578 G1/.290
140gr Hornady AMAX .600 G1/.299 G7 Litz
140 Berger Match Hybrid TGT .618 G1/.317 G7
142gr SMK .604 G1/.301 G7 Litz
Yes, I’ve been documenting the available list of projectiles for 6.5mm since the 2000s. Litz data on the 107gr 6.5 SMK is even better than Sierra states. It’s .462 G1, which makes sense when you put one next to a 123gr A-MAX or ELD-M. 107 SMK has a much longer boat tail.
You won’t be able to tell as a shooter the difference between a .448 and .462 G1 BC behind the gun. Basically difference between .450 and .460, which is nothing. I like the accuracy and consistency of the SMKs though, but you pay for that.
The difference with the 100gr ELD-VT is a little more velocity and double duty as a varminter and light/medium game hunter. Some who have chronographed it are getting 2690fps from 18” Grendels, so hand-loading with CFE223 and LVR will reach 2750fps easily without chasing pressure.
If I was cutting paper looking for X and 10 rind count, I would use SMKs, Bergers, or Scenars.
Since I’m shooting steel, I don’t care so I use Hornady a lot due to price/volume.
Another good one from Sierra is the 105gr Blitzking, which does double duty for TGT and hunting.
TMK though.
The 107 TMK is .238 G7 . When I first got the 100 ELD VT somehow someone mid printed the G7 as .266. With that G7 pushing it made it just a 2.0 mils drift at 1,000 yds at sea level, 10 mph crosswind . Got me all excited. Then I found the correct G7 of .226. Drift went to 2.65 mills and transonic at 965 yds. Drift got the 107 TMK 2.5 mils, transonic at 975 yds. Thanks for posting your 6.5 bullet sheet as well.
So for a 100 gr bullet it performs pretty well. Worst let down . Any hoot it’s all good , try to take my 264 LBC to range tomorrow for some ladder testing. 6.5 Grendel is just an awesome round
So for a 100 gr bullet it performs pretty well. Worst let down . Any hoot it’s all good , try to take my 264 LBC to range tomorrow for some ladder testing. 6.5 Grendel is just an awesome round
100gr ELD-VT is only changing things for people that get their news from Hornady. It's nice Hornady is making a similar product in the market place but I've shot thousands of Sierra 107TMK out of a Grendel. While all the oldsters on the Grendel Forum were complaining about components being out of stock I was buying the TMK they didn't know existed.
3.1 and 10.7. It is super sonic past 1100 yards with a slow muzzle velocity of 2620.
The difference is I can walk into big box stores now and buy 100gr ELD-VT off the shelf or order it for a reasonable price. I’ve been shooting 107gr SMK 6.5mm at times over the past 15 years, but not as regularly as I’ll be able to shoot this.
There are several Grendel factory options for the 107gr SMK and 107 TMK from Defender, Hendershot’s, HSM, and Precision Firearms.
I think one of the things that kept me from shooting much 107gr SMK is that I worked up my main initial loads for it with 8208XBR and also that 107 SMKs were unavailable for a while.
I would like to see this weight class updated with a pointed tip and long boat tail, longest ogive possible. It’s a fun weight to shoot through Grendel, very flat and pretty fast.
Not only would I get into the Grendel again in 2024, I couldn't be happier with it. We're getting married in the fall.
I had a great day at the range. This was all shot with a 20".
I'm bound and determined to shoot a sub half MOA 10 shot group. The gun will consistently hit .6 with Hornady SST, ELD, and better than that with Underwood, but I've got more SST than the rest. Forgive the group that disregarded that lil guy. I put 7 in the group I wanted then threw 8 and 9. I don't even want to talk about 9.
I'm getting 2690 - 2700+ out of the Hornady 100 Vmatch. It made 2450 out of a 12.5".
SST is 2550-2575 from the 20", 2275-2300 from the 12.5".
I owe someone at Steiner a beer. Its more a story for the clip on thermal thread but I would have never put my VX-6 on the Grendel as it has lived happily for years on my 308 bolt gun... in a safe.
I initially threw it on the gun for what I thought would be one hunting trip in a cheap mount. I've come to realize they're meant to be. The varmint reticle is a perfect match - zero'd at 100, the drops are dead on at 200, 300, 400 and 500. Stayed sub MOA at 300 and 400, and I suspect I'll be able to do the same at 500 and 600 next go round.
I need a better mount, and to get my scope dead level, but I suspect that this combo will be super excellent out to 1000 yards. I knew I didn't get that custom dial made yet for a reason.
Be it a short gun or a long gun, its a fun gun.
I had a great day at the range. This was all shot with a 20".
I'm bound and determined to shoot a sub half MOA 10 shot group. The gun will consistently hit .6 with Hornady SST, ELD, and better than that with Underwood, but I've got more SST than the rest. Forgive the group that disregarded that lil guy. I put 7 in the group I wanted then threw 8 and 9. I don't even want to talk about 9.
I'm getting 2690 - 2700+ out of the Hornady 100 Vmatch. It made 2450 out of a 12.5".
SST is 2550-2575 from the 20", 2275-2300 from the 12.5".
I owe someone at Steiner a beer. Its more a story for the clip on thermal thread but I would have never put my VX-6 on the Grendel as it has lived happily for years on my 308 bolt gun... in a safe.
I initially threw it on the gun for what I thought would be one hunting trip in a cheap mount. I've come to realize they're meant to be. The varmint reticle is a perfect match - zero'd at 100, the drops are dead on at 200, 300, 400 and 500. Stayed sub MOA at 300 and 400, and I suspect I'll be able to do the same at 500 and 600 next go round.
I need a better mount, and to get my scope dead level, but I suspect that this combo will be super excellent out to 1000 yards. I knew I didn't get that custom dial made yet for a reason.
Be it a short gun or a long gun, its a fun gun.
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Good shooting! I never got into 6.5 grendel but the desire is still there to be honest. I was hoping someone would come up with a solution to the weak bolt problem in the ar and it seemed like cmmg did by using a larger bolt, but I don't see any mention of those anymore. I see the mcx uses a bolt that looks much stronger than the ar15 bolt...
I also thought of building an ak in 6.5 grendel but have doubts that the accuracy would be there enough to make use of it at long range.
So it's been enough to keep me away. Still think it's the ultimate cartridge for an ar15 sized gun if the bolt issue could be fixed.
I'm using the JP bolts Noveske supplied with their barrels. Not cheap, $150ish for the bolt itself, but zero problems across 3 of them thus far.
Noveske just released their own proprietary Grendel/ARC BCG with their own branded bolt. They're as proud of that as they are the rest of their stuff but results justify investment. I'm just hoping they have another run of Grendel barrels.
16", 18" would be great .... if anyone is listening...
Noveske just released their own proprietary Grendel/ARC BCG with their own branded bolt. They're as proud of that as they are the rest of their stuff but results justify investment. I'm just hoping they have another run of Grendel barrels.
16", 18" would be great .... if anyone is listening...
How many rounds do you have on any individual bolt? It seemed to me like they were failing around 1k rounds on average, if I remember correctly
LRRPF will surely drop in on to comment on bolt longevity, and my experience with 8 Grendel’s indicates only one failed extractor in many thousands of rounds over about 10 years of use, never once the bolt itself.
I exercise proper loading practices, keep headspace and shoulder setback in order, and while I push loads pretty hard, they rarely exceed sensibility and I do get good brass life before primer pockets show me they’ve had enough.
Don’t want to say a bolt can be a non issue, but wouldn’t let that hold me back from moving forward.
I exercise proper loading practices, keep headspace and shoulder setback in order, and while I push loads pretty hard, they rarely exceed sensibility and I do get good brass life before primer pockets show me they’ve had enough.
Don’t want to say a bolt can be a non issue, but wouldn’t let that hold me back from moving forward.
Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places but I've looked in Sportsman's, Bass Pro/Cabelas, and a bunch of other local shops, in three states and I haven't seen ELD-VT in any of them. I'm sure it will eventually show up, since this is what Hornady is really good at, but your point about game changing compared to other Sierra 6.5mm 107 seems odd. Sportsman's used to stock 107, like lots of other non loaded bullets, until COVID. I assume those will eventually come back too.
At any rate, I look forward to your ELD-VT reviews. Maybe it'll turn out better than TMK. Can't say I'm in any hurry to change at this point but we'll see.
I've owned all three caliber variants of the Grendel case and now the only one I'm interested in is the 22 ARC/ Grendel. It spanks the fuck out of a 6.5 for longer range steel shooting. I was hyped about Whitley's 6mm AR/ AR turbo/ AR Turbo 40° Improved...Gen III, V2.0 etc etc back in 2006 but then I saw the struggle. He was using looooong barrels and by all his blown out variations you could tell he was struggling for speed. It was still better than a 223 Wylde 77gr at distance but not what it needed to be. Which is probably why it died until the massive marketing company brought it back to life. By then I'd already moved on to 22 Grendel. The high BC .224 bullets that have come out put the 6mm and 6.5mm bullets you can stuff into a Grendel case to shame.This entire thread and no one brought up 22 ARC, lol.
The one purpose I would go 6.5G is east coast hunting. For me, a 120gr 6.5mm bullet going somewhere between 2600 and 2800 is Goldilocks for putting down whitetail. I still have a 6.5G bolt gun for hunting. The 100gr 6.5mm Nosler BT is also a great hunting bullet but I just haven't seen it available for years so I moved on to the Barnes 115gr TAC TX. I think I'm doing 2650 - 2700 out of a 20" bolt gun with that. I could see doing a 12" SBR and giving up all notions of speed and longer range chops just to have a short hunting AR...but then I'm back to my 300BO. For that role and speed it's 6 vs 1/2 dozen....and no the 6.5mm BC doesn't matter in that role.
It's pretty obvious when you watch the proponents of their favored cartridge quote velocities how much they're biasing their speeds. Like some 70K plus PSI loads. 2750fps in a 168gr 16" barrel? LOL. 2700 in a 123gr 16" barrel? Lol. The industry standard for a 20" Grendel shooting 120gr bullets is 2550. Let's keep it real people.
The one purpose I would go 6.5G is east coast hunting. For me, a 120gr 6.5mm bullet going somewhere between 2600 and 2800 is Goldilocks for putting down whitetail. I still have a 6.5G bolt gun for hunting. The 100gr 6.5mm Nosler BT is also a great hunting bullet but I just haven't seen it available for years so I moved on to the Barnes 115gr TAC TX. I think I'm doing 2650 - 2700 out of a 20" bolt gun with that. I could see doing a 12" SBR and giving up all notions of speed and longer range chops just to have a short hunting AR...but then I'm back to my 300BO. For that role and speed it's 6 vs 1/2 dozen....and no the 6.5mm BC doesn't matter in that role.
It's pretty obvious when you watch the proponents of their favored cartridge quote velocities how much they're biasing their speeds. Like some 70K plus PSI loads. 2750fps in a 168gr 16" barrel? LOL. 2700 in a 123gr 16" barrel? Lol. The industry standard for a 20" Grendel shooting 120gr bullets is 2550. Let's keep it real people.
All true. Grendel is a massive compromise because the market demands the AR-15 frame. An intermediate length AR is the solution but would likely flop. A BRA or GT based cartridge in a medium length AR would be awesome. Until then, I'm enjoying the Grendel I have for what it is, but not building or buying more.
Because a whitetail doesn't require all that. All you're doing is ruining meat. Dumb
An intermediate length AR would be the solution but then they'd try to retire of the cost of the magazines and then it would flop. Like Geisselles $80 ARC mags
That's why the 5.56 was mentioned, and it can do the same job, with even less meat destruction...So under "your" very definition the 5.56 would be an even better cartridge than the Grendel for whitetail deer...with "less meat ruining."
Silly you, made my point...
LOL, WUT?
Bro, you don't even make sense half the time you post. How is you freq hopping to 5.56 some kind of rebuttal to the 338 for a whitetail deer cartridge being dumb?
Bro, you don't even make sense half the time you post. How is you freq hopping to 5.56 some kind of rebuttal to the 338 for a whitetail deer cartridge being dumb?
I'm not talking about 5.56. I made a post about Grendel based cartridges. And you missed that in your rush to say something stupid. You always come in half-cocked and cavalier with exploits of some weird ass science project you pulled off, missing the nuance of the current conversation. You're also the worst on this forum for recommending irresponsible, spittin hot load data that is way over max. Ain't no one got time for your bullshit.
The OP was,... Would you get a Grendel in 2024...My short answer is hell no...
Then why not a different much more powerful caliber, than the Grendel ...or just use a 5.56 it wiil do the same job, as the Grendel, even if it was necessary to shoot twice.
You then say you don’t want all the "meat ruining" of the larger caliber.
So I made the point of telling you, that you just confirmed the argument, of using the 5.56 as a better cartridge for "you", then the Grendel, because of "your" less "meat ruining" objective for "your" cartridge selection, as the better option....and that I was dumb for asking about choosing the larger caliber, because of the "meat ruining".
Your words... not exactly intelligent thinking.
Plus you can choose a larger caliber than the 5.56, but it's dumb if I choose one larger than the Grendel, because of the "meat ruining," for my caliber.
Totally scientific....man!
How about BOTH of you dipshits quit dicking up a perfectly good thread and take your bitchfest to the pit where it belongs???
I still like the Grendel. I'm going to shoot mine some more on Sunday.
I understand the pursuit of a better mousetrap. I understand the 6 ARC has a better BC.
I understand the 6 MAX might be magic.
I'm sure the 22 ARC can travel through time and arrive in the X ring before you actually shot it.
I understand you can push lighter bullets faster and that we have case capacity limitations on the AR-15/45mm platform.
HOWEVER. I like that the Grendel is 25 years old, a lot of companies make ammo, mags, rifles etc in the caliber. Its relatively well developed. I don't like "new" gun things as I've gotten older (47) I'm willing to let others work out the kinks rather than doing it myself.
I like being able to use slightly heavier bullets. My primary application is whacking pork.
Mine makes shooting back to 600 pretty easy with 123s. I'm looking forward to getting to a 1000 yard range and seeing how the new 100's work. As a general purpose rifle that has capacity, carries well, suppresses well, big aftermarket, and has a great spread of results from 12-24"...
I might even build another one or two for my kids.
I understand the pursuit of a better mousetrap. I understand the 6 ARC has a better BC.
I understand the 6 MAX might be magic.
I'm sure the 22 ARC can travel through time and arrive in the X ring before you actually shot it.
I understand you can push lighter bullets faster and that we have case capacity limitations on the AR-15/45mm platform.
HOWEVER. I like that the Grendel is 25 years old, a lot of companies make ammo, mags, rifles etc in the caliber. Its relatively well developed. I don't like "new" gun things as I've gotten older (47) I'm willing to let others work out the kinks rather than doing it myself.
I like being able to use slightly heavier bullets. My primary application is whacking pork.
Mine makes shooting back to 600 pretty easy with 123s. I'm looking forward to getting to a 1000 yard range and seeing how the new 100's work. As a general purpose rifle that has capacity, carries well, suppresses well, big aftermarket, and has a great spread of results from 12-24"...
I might even build another one or two for my kids.
To me at least the Grendel is just such a versatile do it all cartridge, that works. It is the little train that could. I got my first 20” Grendel in 2013 and I still love shooting it.
Sure both the 6 ARC and the 22 ARC can shoot 1,000 yds a little better. As said I respect the building a better mouse trap. The 22 ARC will make a great varmint or coyote rifle. But in 11 years there is just not enough significant difference to engage me to make a jump. The 22 Arc is enticing though.
I have some 100 gr ELD M , I’ll be trying to work some loads on to set the groundwork for some 100 ELD VT’s whenever I can get my hands on some. In the end I am thinking I may just build a 22 ARC upper. But I love the Grendel and over 11 years it is my rifle with the most rounds down the tube , with the 308 win on its heals.
Sure both the 6 ARC and the 22 ARC can shoot 1,000 yds a little better. As said I respect the building a better mouse trap. The 22 ARC will make a great varmint or coyote rifle. But in 11 years there is just not enough significant difference to engage me to make a jump. The 22 Arc is enticing though.
I have some 100 gr ELD M , I’ll be trying to work some loads on to set the groundwork for some 100 ELD VT’s whenever I can get my hands on some. In the end I am thinking I may just build a 22 ARC upper. But I love the Grendel and over 11 years it is my rifle with the most rounds down the tube , with the 308 win on its heals.
SOLGW is coming out with an Aermet 100 6arc/6.5 Grendel bolt.
SRC makes their S7 tool steel reliabolt in 6.5 Grendel.
No 6.5 Grendel for me, but if it takes off in the next 2 years I would probably get a 6mm Max upper for my AR.
556 is a trash deer round, anyone who is an actual Hunter knows that and wouldn't suggest such a thing. My 300 Blackout AR-15 for example is 2 lb lighter than your AR-10 and kills deer just as well without damaging meat. The Grendel could do the same while extending the effective range by 2x or 3x
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You have to be careful with S7 when the parts are so small like on an AR-15 bolt. Sharps Bros had a lot of lug failures with them in 5.56.
I’ve been almost trying to break a bolt in the 12” Grendel suppressed CLGS and it just keeps running.
I used the predecessor bolt to the current Rexus bolt, which has some refinements to it to add root strength in key areas that are easily overlooked.
I’ve been almost trying to break a bolt in the 12” Grendel suppressed CLGS and it just keeps running.
I used the predecessor bolt to the current Rexus bolt, which has some refinements to it to add root strength in key areas that are easily overlooked.
The 5.56 for hunting is not my thing, but alot of people use it with success and are satisfied with its performance...shooting deer, hogs, even for helicopter, on hogs.
Native Alaskan have used 22 magnum, 22 hornet, 222, 220 swift and now 223 on large game walrus to polar bear.
Remember the Gator hunters and the 22LR on aTV series, kill hundreds of alligators each season.
Subsistence hunters are not exactly fair chase hunters on game, but killing the animal at the lowest cost and the least effort.
I do not care what caliber you use, it's your choice.
One of my light AR 10s weighs in at 6 lbs, probably lighter than your 300 Blkout...certainly not 2 lbs lighter.
My personal AR 15, 300 blkout 16" barrel weighs 7 lbs 3 oz ...a full lb HEAVIER than my 16" AR 10...you can build an AR 10 light.
Plus the 308 has much more power and range, shooting 168 grs at 2756 fps from its 16" barrel, and over 2800 ft/lbs of muzzle energy...sometimes I want the extra energy, range, and killing power, along with the light weight, because I can.
A personal choice...I could go to the 7 lb 11oz 338 RCM AR 10, also, even more power....or choose an AR 15 in one of it's many calibers, ...or maybe a 50BMG.
A personal choice.
As a side note I did get the Sharps extreme performance bolt and ran it in my rifle. I was not happy. I was running ladders for velocity only for my 100gr ELD M’s and some 107 Smk’s. On the lowest start load the first couple of rounds stove piped. I went to single feed them. Alternatively the rifle would go from not ejecting from the gun well, to just barely flopping out, to 2:00 o’clock ejection pattern to not even ejecting the round with it still being squarely in the bolt. I was single feeding do the bcc was held by the bolt catch.
I pulled that bolt and put back the previous Odin works bolt. The following day this is when I did some other bullet straight ladder test for velocity and pressure signs. That bolt functioned flawlessly.
I contacted Sharps and told customer service of my problem and suggested that I return the bolt and some accompanying brass so they could figure out what was going on and correct them. Their response was looking at pick I sent you were running rounds well over pressure which caused the brass flecks on the case head and ultimately functional failure of the bolt after 30 rounds.
So I decided I would pull the bolt apart. The extractor and ejector pin and figure out the problem. Here is a quick summary of my findings.
The extractor had a fairly large o-ring on it which made any movement of the extractor when the round was going into battery offer a tremendous amount of resistance. Examining my brass from that firing cycle the faces of the case head were pretty stable very little if any case swiping but the rims of the case heads had small cuts in the from the claw of the extractor.
I measured all my spent cases for evidence of drastic over pressuring of the loads. All measurements, neck, base, case web, were within .001 tolerances. While primers ( cci 450’s) were a little flattened but still with round edges, there was no cratering of the primers. So this was not causational to bolt function.
So my take is that the extractor exhibited so much resistance to opening during the final rotational movement into battery that the sharp edge of the extractor was cutting the edges of the case rim as it pushed by. So I will either find a slightly smaller o-ring or shave of a little of the existing to lessen the resistance of the extractor as the case goes into battery.
As far as the ejection pin. I soaked the pin head area with WD40 and then successfully pushed down on the ejector until it loosened enough and finally extended all the way. There actually were a few brass shards that had made their way down in between the pin and the wall of the hole which ultimately locked it in a flush condition.
I cleaned out the hole with a small rat tail file very lightly moving it back and forth. Again I picked up a very small shard of brass. really small pieces, barely visible to my eye but pick up in light. I then wiped down the pin inspected it and placed it in the hole. It was still binding up. So I broke out my Dremel and put a polishing wheel on it. Put some Flick on it it and went about polishing the pin.
I then placed the pin in the hole to check for clearance and function. Absolutely no snagging, it ran up and down with little or no resistance. I reassembled the bolt and I will see what I have or I can find to replace the , what I believe is over sized o-ring. If I can’t find one I will shave some the existing o-ring off, and then I will put it back in.
I still think the Sharps extreme bolt is a good deal and I suspect going forward it will function flawlessly. But when you pay $131 for a bolt you expect it to function 100% out of the box.
I did write a review to the customer service rep of my findings in a little more lengthy report, hoping they will apply it to their QC and production operations. I did let them know that I was not happy with their dismissal of me as a customer. Assuming I was just some buffoon.
I pulled that bolt and put back the previous Odin works bolt. The following day this is when I did some other bullet straight ladder test for velocity and pressure signs. That bolt functioned flawlessly.
I contacted Sharps and told customer service of my problem and suggested that I return the bolt and some accompanying brass so they could figure out what was going on and correct them. Their response was looking at pick I sent you were running rounds well over pressure which caused the brass flecks on the case head and ultimately functional failure of the bolt after 30 rounds.
So I decided I would pull the bolt apart. The extractor and ejector pin and figure out the problem. Here is a quick summary of my findings.
The extractor had a fairly large o-ring on it which made any movement of the extractor when the round was going into battery offer a tremendous amount of resistance. Examining my brass from that firing cycle the faces of the case head were pretty stable very little if any case swiping but the rims of the case heads had small cuts in the from the claw of the extractor.
I measured all my spent cases for evidence of drastic over pressuring of the loads. All measurements, neck, base, case web, were within .001 tolerances. While primers ( cci 450’s) were a little flattened but still with round edges, there was no cratering of the primers. So this was not causational to bolt function.
So my take is that the extractor exhibited so much resistance to opening during the final rotational movement into battery that the sharp edge of the extractor was cutting the edges of the case rim as it pushed by. So I will either find a slightly smaller o-ring or shave of a little of the existing to lessen the resistance of the extractor as the case goes into battery.
As far as the ejection pin. I soaked the pin head area with WD40 and then successfully pushed down on the ejector until it loosened enough and finally extended all the way. There actually were a few brass shards that had made their way down in between the pin and the wall of the hole which ultimately locked it in a flush condition.
I cleaned out the hole with a small rat tail file very lightly moving it back and forth. Again I picked up a very small shard of brass. really small pieces, barely visible to my eye but pick up in light. I then wiped down the pin inspected it and placed it in the hole. It was still binding up. So I broke out my Dremel and put a polishing wheel on it. Put some Flick on it it and went about polishing the pin.
I then placed the pin in the hole to check for clearance and function. Absolutely no snagging, it ran up and down with little or no resistance. I reassembled the bolt and I will see what I have or I can find to replace the , what I believe is over sized o-ring. If I can’t find one I will shave some the existing o-ring off, and then I will put it back in.
I still think the Sharps extreme bolt is a good deal and I suspect going forward it will function flawlessly. But when you pay $131 for a bolt you expect it to function 100% out of the box.
I did write a review to the customer service rep of my findings in a little more lengthy report, hoping they will apply it to their QC and production operations. I did let them know that I was not happy with their dismissal of me as a customer. Assuming I was just some buffoon.
Any hoot some velocity results in the 24” BHW 1-8 barrel.
100 gr ELD M we’re no joke with PPV . 2,880
Actually hit 2,920 but at 2,880 three gr less.
120 Gr PPU CFE. 2680
123 gr SST AR comp 2676
130 gr PPVand AR Comp 2550
140 Grain AR Comp 2,423
Now I’ll have to start building ladders in 5 round groups at 100 and 200 yds. For starters. Very promising. My 20” BHW barrel run approximately 100 fps slower
100 gr ELD M we’re no joke with PPV . 2,880
Actually hit 2,920 but at 2,880 three gr less.
120 Gr PPU CFE. 2680
123 gr SST AR comp 2676
130 gr PPVand AR Comp 2550
140 Grain AR Comp 2,423
Now I’ll have to start building ladders in 5 round groups at 100 and 200 yds. For starters. Very promising. My 20” BHW barrel run approximately 100 fps slower
