WTF Gunbroker? Buyers beware of this easily exploitable fraud!

[Praetorian_6]

Last night I noticed a KAC bipod auction that ends today and the bipod was still priced in the $3xx range. I've been watching them lately, and I know they typically sell for $750+. So, I put in a bid of $600. The high bid jumped to $605, and I saw the message, that I was unfortunately not the high bidder at that point. I logged back in this afternoon to check out the item's status again, and come to find out, I'm the high bidder with a price of $385.

I check out the bid history and find this (note the bid retraction at the bottom):

So, basically, Burlsbuying has an F rating. Yesterday, I recall seeing that his bid was from 4/14, I think... maybe 4/15. The date there is only the retraction date. So, the guy had a winning bid for 5-ish days before retraction. Because my maximum bid was exposed, I was not satisfied with the idea that the seller or whomever could fraudulently and confidently bid me right up to my maximum before auction end. So, I sent a note to gunbroker that I was not satisfied with this situation, wanted my bid retracted and would NOT honor the bid if it were pushed up to my maximum at auction end. The response:

So, if you're a seller, it behooves you to have at least 1 fraudulent account with which you can test the maximum bids of your buyers. Then you can retract your fraud account's bid, and push your top buyer to his maximum bid with confidence.

I just thought you folks should know about this easily exploitable problem. I'll send them a link and invite them to defend this policy.

 

[CraigT]

That is interesting, I have not see that as of yet. I will keep an eye out for it.

 

[Maggot]

Ive bought a couple items off GB and had no problems but they are hard to reach and their responses are shakey, at least it seems that way to me.

Like with anything else youve got to watch your ass...and wallet. They wont accept American Express as a card for that very reason, American Express almost always rules in its clients favor.

 

[Alienta]

I’ve recently seen some ammo selling higher on GB auctions than is now being offered by internet retailers. Is the tide starting to turn?

 

[theLBC]

can you choose not to pay or purchase, or does that hurt you in some way?

/don't buy stuff from auctions...

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

I've never bought anything off Gunbroker. Never needed to. But I can see how this type of shenanigans would be easy for a seller to do.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

dont pay and give him feedback of what happened

 

[Praetorian_6]

I see no way, as a buyer, to use it to my advantage.

In my opinion, no bids, except perhaps the very first, should ever be allowed to be retracted. Once a guy has been outbid and his maximum bid exposed due to a higher bid, then the auction should be allowed to end and bidders who were outbid can be offered the product at their maximum bid if the high bidder himself turns out to be a flake. That's the only reasonable approach I can see. There may be others, but exposing a buyer's maximum bid and then allowing higher bids to be retracted means that they have no defense against being pushed to their maximum, except to refuse to pay... Obviously doing so would damage their reputation, which puts them in a bind.

 

[theLBC]

i have also heard that since searches may come back with the earliest item submitted first, so sellers will list something they don't have at a stupid price that nobody will pay, so that when they have one, they can fix the price and still be at the top of the search results.
or something like that...

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I see no way, as a buyer, to use it to my advantage.

low balll him and use guntab as payment
edit i thought the auction already closed....would you be happy if you won it for that price?

 

[Im2bent]

Can you change your max bid to what the current bid is so they cannot run up the price on you?

 

[Praetorian_6]

Is that something you're normally allowed to do? If so, I wasn't aware... Too late for me to test, anyways. I've been outbid again.

It's an interesting question, but they could still run you up before you could reduce your own bid.

 

[KZP]

i have also heard that since searches may come back with the earliest item submitted first, so sellers will list something they don't have at a stupid price that nobody will pay, so that when they have one, they can fix the price and still be at the top of the search results.
or something like that...

I browse gunbroker a lot and another annoying thing sellers have been doing is listing like this:

2lb of IMR 4064 Reloading Powder Not Hodgdon Varget H1000 H4831 Retumbo​

Berger .264 / 6.5mm 140 Grain Target Hybrid #26714 (500ct) Berger 6.5 140 Not H4350 H1000 Varget 140 ELD-M ELDM ELD-X RL 17​

They fill the title with popular keywords that aren't related to their auction. Clutters up the search results with a bunch of stuff you don't want to buy.

 

[Im2bent]

Yeah no I just checked you can go up you cannot go down but if you were outbid you should be off the hook

 

[Praetorian_6]

I browse gunbroker a lot and another annoying thing sellers have been doing is listing like this:

2lb of IMR 4064 Reloading Powder Not Hodgdon Varget H1000 H4831 Retumbo​

Berger .264 / 6.5mm 140 Grain Target Hybrid #26714 (500ct) Berger 6.5 140 Not H4350 H1000 Varget 140 ELD-M ELDM ELD-X RL 17​

They fill the title with popular keywords that aren't related to their auction. Clutters up the search results with a bunch of stuff you don't want to buy.

In google, you can put a "-" before a word to ensure it excludes results containing the word. If something like that works in gunbroker you could exclude those with "not" in the title.

 

[KZP]

In google, you can put a "-" before a word to ensure it excludes results containing the word. If something like that works in gunbroker you could exclude those with "not" in the title.

The products I want have the word Not in the title. Basically you can pick the top 10 reloading components by popularity and their keywords are cross listed. Looking for 4046? It will say Not varget h100 etc. Looking for varget? Will say Not h100 4064 etc.

I don't think gunbroker cares much about how their site works. Maybe because there isn't a good competitor right now.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Good point.

 

[1911hombre]

Well, now you're the high bidder..... at $605. So... you re-bid. "Binkydoo" pushed you, but not to $605; you did that. I don't think there's anything shady going on with this auction. Only thing I'll say is if I was the seller I would have shitcanned the bum with the "F" rating sooner. Looks like no harm , no foul to me.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Well, now you're the high bidder..... at $605. So... you re-bid. "Binkydoo" pushed you, but not to $605; you did that. I don't think there's anything shady going on with this auction. Only thing I'll say is if I was the seller I would have shitcanned the bum with the "F" rating sooner. Looks like no harm , no foul to me.

No, "Binkydoo" did not. Go back and read again. My high bid was exposed by a later retracted bid... that's a problem when my bid returns to $385, because now anyone paying attention knows exactly what my high bid is.

 

[1911hombre]

No, "Binkydoo" did not. Go back and read again. My high bid was exposed, by a later retracted bid... that's a problem when my bid returns to $385, because now, anyone paying attention knows exactly what my high bid is.

OK, I see now. Nevertheless, you're outbid, and the rest of my post still stands. If you would have won it for $600 after bidding $600 you would be happy.

 

[rustyinbend]

I've been damn lucky that all my GB transactions (both buying and selling) have been devoid of drama. That said, I only buy from very highly rated sellers, and when I sell, I require payment via PayPal F&F, No Comments, and the transaction has to transfer successfully from PayPal to my bank before I ship anything. So far - so good. That whole "Bid Retraction" thing is weird ... never experienced that.

 

[Huskydriver]

Last night I noticed a KAC bipod auction that ends today and the bipod was still priced in the $3xx range. I've been watching them lately, and I know they typically sell for $750+. So, I put in a bid of $600. The high bid jumped to $605, and I saw the message, that I was unfortunately not the high bidder at that point. I logged back in this afternoon to check out the item's status again, and come to find out, I'm the high bidder with a price of $385.

I check out the bid history and find this (note the bid retraction at the bottom):
View attachment 7608728So, basically, Burlsbuying has an F rating. Yesterday, I recall seeing that his bid was from 4/14, I think... maybe 4/15. The date there is only the retraction date. So, the guy had a winning bid for 5-ish days before retraction. Because my maximum bid was exposed, I was not satisfied with the idea that the seller or whomever could fraudulently and confidently bid me right up to my maximum before auction end. So, I sent a note to gunbroker that I was not satisfied with this situation, wanted my bid retracted and would NOT honor the bid if it were pushed up to my maximum at auction end. The response:

View attachment 7608730

So, if you're a seller, it behooves you to have at least 1 fraudulent account with which you can test the maximum bids of your buyers. Then you can retract your fraud account's bid, and push your top buyer to his maximum bid with confidence.

I just thought you folks should know about this easily exploitable problem. I'll send them a link and invite them to defend this policy.

You are just barley figuring this out high speed?

Guys use throw away accounts all the time to drive the bids up

 

[Praetorian_6]

You are just barley figuring this out high speed?

Guys use throw away accounts all the time to drive the bids up

Ok, you must be smart and experienced while I'm stupid and inexperienced. Well done! Go you! I'm sure I'm not the only stupid and inexperienced person on here who was unaware how easily their max bid can be exposed and exploited. Also, it's still wrong.

Gotta love the bear pit...

 

[Praetorian_6]

OK, I see now. Nevertheless, you're outbid, and the rest of my post still stands. If you would have won it for $600 after bidding $600 you would be happy.

Not if I would have gotten it for less in a fair, unexploitable auction.

Let me ask you a question, would you ever publicize your maximum bid on an open auction? Are you still happy with the outcome if you're forced to pay more, and perhaps quite a bit more, than you otherwise would have had to? If the answers to those questions is no, then you should not be supportive of this bid retraction policy. If you were not aware of it before now, then you're welcome.

 

[theLBC]

i have to admit at first i thought this was about a fake kac bipod at a low price.
would suck after all this...

 

[seanh]

That's nothing. On eBay I know there's people that have friends that pushed bids up. Friends don't have to buy it if they win, you'll just get a notice hey the buyer retracted do you still want this. Either A you buy it or B it gets relisted

 

[Ruger1300]

Yeah, one of the guys in my squadron used to do this. He sold a lot of stuff on gunbroker and would always ask the guys in our shop to help him jump buds against other buyers. Some of the guys would help him and others not. It was shady as heck and taught me a valuable lesson about money and people.

 

[Praetorian_6]

That's nothing. On eBay I know there's people that have friends that pushed bids up. Friends don't have to buy it if they win, you'll just get a notice hey the buyer retracted do you still want this. Either A you buy it or B it gets relisted

The only difference I see there is that you're no longer bound to your bid. That would be perfectly alright, but apparently with gunbroker, I am legally bound to honor a bid that has been exposed.

Not that that would stop me from telling them to piss off after I feel the bidding process has gone shady.

 

[1911hombre]

Auction is still going per 15 minute rule. Up, up.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Yeah... I find it remarkable that it's still below $700. Maybe these bipods are coming back down to reality.

I've kept track of the ones I've seen in this thread (link), and as you can see for yourself, nothing has sold near to this one's current price.

 

[458win]

I’ve purchased a few guns on gunbroker. Always seemed kind of fishy how they get run up to my max bid. When I sell something... it receives 2-3 bids and that’s that. If I put a bid down, I’ll pay it because I still think it’s worth the price. However, last couple purchases definitely didn’t feel right. Now, I just look for guns with “buy it now” price if I am after something particular.

 

[chevy_man]

An I the only one with a good LGS? They will order me anything I want, try to find it at another store if the distributors don't have it, etc.

I've found every "good deal" online isn't worth the shipping when I price it locally. Although, they only do 12-15% on guns and will give me 5% off for cash (costs them 3.5% to run a card, 5% sounds better).

Even in this economy they sold me a pistol for 10% over their cost and it was only on the shelf for 1 day.

 

[Mister Ridge]

An I the only one with a good LGS? They will order me anything I want, try to find it at another store if the distributors don't have it, etc.

I've found every "good deal" online isn't worth the shipping when I price it locally. Although, they only do 12-15% on guns and will give me 5% off for cash (costs them 3.5% to run a card, 5% sounds better).

Even in this economy they sold me a pistol for 10% over their cost and it was only on the shelf for 1 day.

Don't buy used much?

 

[Anointed1]

I just look now for guns with buy it now price if I am after something particular.

^^^This...

 

[E. Bryant]

Never bid early on an active auction. Set a reminder to come back later (same day of close).

Never bid more than you would be delighted to pay under any normally-expected circumstances (when means that you expect fuckery).

Do the above, and it becomes much harder for the seller to fuck around. "But I really want the item!”, someone screeches. Well, then you're gonna pay the price because right now, GB is filled with thousands of other impatient mofos.

My biggest issue the last several months on GB has been winning an item at a "good" price (that being strictly relative to the market on that particular day), and then the shop refuses to hold up their end because "it just sold in the store" or "I can't find the inventory in the stockroom". Yeah, sure, you had 4 in stock on a Sunday evening when I clicked Buy Now, and they all went "poof" overnight?!? The first time is happenstance, the second coincidence; by the third time, it's clear I'm getting fucked by a dealer who isn't happy with the outcome.

Private sellers have been much more reliable as of late.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Yep. When it comes to auctions, I find it easier to bid at the very last minute. Avoids a lot of fuckery. At the end of the day it's gonna sell for what it's gonna sell for.

 

[MtnCreek]

Gunbroker is too complicated for op.

 

[EddieNFL]

I no longer have issues with GB or egay. Virtually every seller refuses to accept a postal MO or certified funds and, after my last experience, I will not use Paypal or any electronic payment method. Haven't missed either site.

I'm on a reloading site that posts info on confirmed scammers. "Confirmed Scammer" is the most common thread title. Even beats out "Is it okay the reseat a high primer in a loaded round," and the ever popular, "Is it okay to tumble loaded ammo."

 

[sawgunner2001]

This is one of many reasons why I don't bid on online auctions. I DO use Gunbroker, but only for items with a reasonable 'Buy it Now' price.

 

[chevy_man]

Don't buy used much?

Not generally. I've bought used when something catches my eye on the rack.

Used prices have been so outrageous I see no reason not to buy new unless it's out of production. I got to a point a few years ago where I'm done with out of production anything that I can't get parts for. If it's going to take a machinist to keep it going, I don't want it.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

I've only bought a few times off GB, but I've been treated fairly so far. (that I know of)

I do wish they didn't have the 15 minute rule. I'd rather take my chances on either I get the last bid in, or I don't. When I'm buying, I want the best price, but there's nothing I'm buying I can't do without. It's not food.

I will have to keep an eye out for fake accounts now though...

 

[adubeau]

I recently bought off of GB, saved a good 100 bucks over retail, no issues and everything went pretty damn smooth, I was impressed to say the least.

 

[Praetorian_6]

Yep, I've had good experiences too. It just takes one bad one though...

 

[Charger442]

So OP has not been to a live auction over the last 100 years or so? Shill bidders are at every auction and have been and always will be. even charity auctions.

if you dont know how to do it, then stay away. if there's something you cant live without, the price is going to reflect that. have discipline and be smart. same rules for just about EVERYTHING IN LIFE.

 

[Praetorian_6]

To the contrary, in most live auctions when a bid is retracted, which is uncommon but can happen prior to the sale, it does not revive previous bids.

Besides, that's irrelevant. I don't mind shill bidders, I mind being on the hook after the full exposure of my maximum bid. I still think several people in here don't get what actually happened.

 

[loveha]

Just like fleabay. I will never trust anything there. I'm sure there are plenty of great deals, but shit like this keeps me from bothering.

 

[Charger442]

To the contrary, in most live auctions when a bid is retracted, which is uncommon but can happen prior to the sale, it does not revive previous bids.

Besides, that's irrelevant. I don't mind shill bidders, I mind being on the hook after the full exposure of my maximum bid. I still think several people in here don't get what actually happened.

I get what happened. You told them you'd be fine to pay up to that amount by making a bid. Whether you were again bid up by shills or real bidders after the other person's retraction, did your bid not mean you were comfortable paying that price? If not why did you bid that price?

You yourself said these typically go for $750, so what were you really expecting, to bid $600 but walk away with it for $385?

You bid $600. You should be fine paying $600. If you weren't fine paying $600, why did you bid $600?

 

[Praetorian_6]

I addressed that question in response to 1911hombre above.

 

[Charger442]

I addressed that question in response to 1911hombre above.

So your answer is you bid $600 but don't want to pay $600? Why did you bid $600?

 

[MtnCreek]

So your answer is you bid $600 but don't want to pay $600? Why did you bid $600?

I think this is the same guy that was arguing back on scout that srp's work in place of lrp's because they fit in the pocket. Assuming it is, that should explain the situation.