Sidearms & Scatterguns Yavuz 16 Regard, talk me out of it.

[cupid stunt]

It's a Turkish Beretta 92 copy, I'm thinking about getting one and am almost ready to pull the trigger. I'm in need of another 9mm auto and these are supposedly just as good as the real deal if not better, I can get one for $ 480 Canadian shipped ( 360 USD ). A genuine Beretta 92 would be twice the price.

 

[...]

I do my best to avoid buying firearms from countries that actively sponsor terrorism

 

[cupid stunt]

I do my best to avoid buying firearms from countries that actively sponsor terrorism

What countries do not actively sponsor terrorism ?

 

[cupid stunt]

Would you turn a blind eye if it was a gold plated one ?

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I would be concerned about quality and workmanship of these guns. Does Turkey have a national proofing system like Italy or Germany? Where every production firearm MUST be proof tested at 150-200% of it's normal operating pressures? Does the government set a national safety standard? Those will be the things I will research thoroughly before I take a step towards that direction.

There are a lot of firearms manufactured by home gunsmiths in the Khyber Pass region of Pakistan, from scratch materials that are claimed to rival their commercial counterparts in quality. Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, AK's and AR's and everything else...Would I want to step onto the firing line and try one out? Hmm.......Let me go tell my family and friends that I love them first...

Not to sound discouraging or paranoid but make sure to have a whole lot of research material at your disposal before proceeding into uncharted waters.

 

[cupid stunt]

I would be concerned about quality and workmanship of these guns. Does Turkey have a national proofing system like Italy or Germany? Where every production firearm MUST be proof tested at 150-200% of it's normal operating pressures? Does the government set a national safety standard? Those will be the things I will research thoroughly before I take a step towards that direction.

There are a lot of firearms manufactured by home gunsmiths in the Khyber Pass region of Pakistan, from scratch materials that are claimed to rival their commercial counterparts in quality. Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, AK's and AR's and everything else...Would I want to step onto the firing line and try one out? Hmm.......Let me go tell my family and friends that I love them first...

Not to sound discouraging or paranoid but make sure to have a whole lot of research material at your disposal before proceeding into uncharted waters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GİRSAN

GIRSAN Gun Industry was established in Giresun Turkey in 1994. The models of Yavuz 16 compact and Yavuz 16 Regard guns have been introduced to the market in 1995. Girsan upgraded to the automatic control system using computer-aided CNC workbenches in 1999. And later the Yavuz 16 compact MC and Yavuz 16 Regard MC models in 2004. Bora, Tugra and Zirve models in 2006. MC 21 and MC 23 models in 2007 have been introduced to the market. With its employees reaching to 200 in total and its investments on the machines reached about 1.5 million USD in the fırst half of the year 2005, the annual gun production capacity of the plant had been increased 3 times more and reached to a level of 60.000 units per year. Yavuz 16 guns are being manufactured in NATO Standards and have been passed the complicated tests with zero error which are made in the scope of the mentioned standards. GIRSAN has ISO 9001-2000 Quality Management System, Ministry of Defence (MOD) Security Clearance and MOD Manufacturing Certificates. In addition to these GIRSAN has the ATF Form 4590 (Factoring Criteria Report)(importable report) given by USA Alcohol Tobacco Firing Guns and Explosives Directorate.[1]

I have had good experiences with the cheap Chinese Norinco 1911's,M14's etc etc, these are apparently even better. I can find no bad mouthing other than from people who have never held or seen one. From what I can gather they are supposed to be as good as an original Beretta.

Just wondered if anyone here knew about them.

Here's their website...........

http://girsan.com.tr/en/project/reg...aP6_6VnGt4FABdMEDWSykrmiOau4gdc6mPvexgAooicT0

 

[cupid stunt]

They are sold in the US and imported by Zenith and EAA.

https://eaacorp.com/girsan

 

[cupid stunt]

I'm going for it. It's the all metal components and quality that has persuaded me.

I will post an update when it arrives.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

I'm going for it. It's the all metal components and quality that has persuaded me.

I will post an update when it arrives.

Okay........That IS a pretty solid and impressive resume.......You're HIRED

Let us know how it handles and performs when ya get it

 

[myronman3]

all metal.....hmm. what KIND of metal? pretty broad statement...which in my experience, means there is a hook.

my default position on stuff like this is “you get what you pay for” in most cases. yes, there is the law of dimenishing returns....but 360? they cheaped out somewhere, you can bet on it.

 

[cupid stunt]

all metal.....hmm. what KIND of metal? pretty broad statement...which in my experience, means there is a hook.

my default position on stuff like this is “you get what you pay for” in most cases. yes, there is the law of dimenishing returns....but 360? they cheaped out somewhere, you can bet on it.

Here's a comparison with a Beretta.... I just discovered it and
have not watched it yet.

 

[308pirate]

The Turks know how to make guns.

 

[308pirate]

I would be concerned about quality and workmanship of these guns. Does Turkey have a national proofing system like Italy or Germany?

Do we?

 

[cupid stunt]

The finish on the Turkish clone seems better than the Beretta, and like I mentioned earlier everything is metal. It looks like the Yavuz has the edge, I will find out soon enough, it will be interesting to see.

It's a pity you can't buy Chinese pistols in the US now, but you can at least buy some of the Girsan offerings which don't really cost a lot more.

 

[cupid stunt]

One downside that I have heard reports of is that the felt recoil is greater on the Yavuz. Does not really make a lot of sense to be but that's what's been reported.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Think about it this way, if it turns out to be shite (very likely) then you're out half the price of a real 92. The value of the 92, in my eyes, is that it's accurate and can go for an insanely high round count when properly maintained. For those high tech users, it's a fantastic suppressor host. A Turkish copy is unlikely to offer any of that. Coat it all with an underwhelming warranty and you're 150% further away from where you started, all because you trust to depend on something with questionable utility.

I see no utility in a 92 that I wouldn't trust my life on. Literally zero. There are other fish in the sea which I would around the $500 price point. None are as good as the real gen 3 92's in my opinion, but it's all in what you're looking for. If you want a range toy and can afford to risk it then go for it. When the markings fall out of the sights and the recoil spring scratches along like a bad blowjob you won't have to care.

 

[cupid stunt]

Think about it this way, if it turns out to be shite (very likely) then you're out half the price of a real 92. The value of the 92, in my eyes, is that it's accurate and can go for an insanely high round count when properly maintained. For those high tech users, it's a fantastic suppressor host. A Turkish copy is unlikely to offer any of that. Coat it all with an underwhelming warranty and you're 150% further away from where you started, all because you trust to depend on something with questionable utility.

I see no utility in a 92 that I wouldn't trust my life on. Literally zero. There are other fish in the sea which I would around the $500 price point. None are as good as the real gen 3 92's in my opinion, but it's all in what you're looking for. If you want a range toy and can afford to risk it then go for it. When the markings fall out of the sights and the recoil spring scratches along like a bad blowjob you won't have to care.

I base my trust in the underdog on the even cheaper Chinese Norinco firearms that are everywhere up here in Canada. The Chinese pistols are good but have visible machining internally, they shoot well out of the box and get better with use. I would trust a Norinco 1911 without a second thought.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Do we?

Shit I just remembered a similar convo that we had on the trad hunting forums when those CVA in-line muzzleloaders were going kaboom left and right...And with normal recommended loads too.

Some reading turned up the fact the US Gov't doesn't regulate firearms like they do with other consumer goods so the gun companies essentially have to regulate themselves. The lawsuits from the CVA saga were long and dragged out and it turns out these guys were having the barrels made overseas, and proof marks were then stamped on without the guns even being test fired, much less proof fired. Still remember seeing pics of shooters who got their hands blown off by 120-grain charges of Pyrodex or Triple Se7en going kaboom.

Big question is....what the heck is keeping us safe here right now? Threats of lawsuits?

 

[308pirate]

Big question is....what the heck is keeping us safe here right now? Threats of lawsuits?

You don't want the US government running a proof house.

 

[cupid stunt]

My new toy was shipped today, must be a record.... With a bit of luck I will have it this week, early next for sure.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

I would trust a Norinco 1911 without a second thought.

You don't have to, though. Your life is worth more than that. Think quality over quantity in that regard. Something that lets you down when you need it most is far worse than just springing to buy the sure thing in the first place. If it's just a range toy who cares, but you will see a diminished return in quality at the lower price point. That's why I think the genuine gen 3 92's are still a better value in all regards.

 

[cupid stunt]

You don't have to, though. Your life is worth more than that. Think quality over quantity in that regard. Something that lets you down when you need it most is far worse than just springing to buy the sure thing in the first place. If it's just a range toy who cares, but you will see a diminished return in quality at the lower price point. That's why I think the genuine gen 3 92's are still a better value in all regards.

Have you ever owned a Norinco 1911 ?

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

No. The relevant firearms I own are the Beretta 92A1, M9A3, and a DW Wraith in 9mm. I wouldn't trust the Wraith with my life and it has run flawlessly for the 500rnds I put on it, both my decision and its performance are based off the tight tolerances on that gun— so I don't extend this insight or opinion to an arbitrary 1911. 1911's do have their shortcomings all the same though, not saying it takes rocket science to get right but it is pretty easy to get wrong, consistently. The Beretta 92s and my Glock 19 are what I would bet the world on because they have exact tolerances. They have been tested to hell and back by people a lot smarter, and who have owned many more types of guns, than probably both of us combined.

That's just my 2 cents, I really do think you'll enjoy your new gun all the same. Owning a real 92 is a more fulfilling experience in my mind even at twice the cost is all I should have said. Sorry if I came down on your excitement at all.

 

[cupid stunt]

No. The relevant firearms I own are the Beretta 92A1, M9A3, and a DW Wraith in 9mm. I wouldn't trust the Wraith with my life and it has run flawlessly for the 500rnds I put on it, both my decision and its performance are based off the tight tolerances on that gun— so I don't extend this insight or opinion to an arbitrary 1911. 1911's do have their shortcomings all the same though, not saying it takes rocket science to get right but it is pretty easy to get wrong, consistently. The Beretta 92s and my Glock 19 are what I would bet the world on because they have exact tolerances. They have been tested to hell and back by people a lot smarter, and who have owned many more types of guns, than probably both of us combined.

That's just my 2 cents, I really do think you'll enjoy your new gun all the same. Owning a real 92 is a more fulfilling experience in my mind even at twice the cost is all I should have said. Sorry if I came down on your excitement at all.

You did not come down on my excitement in the slightest, the more the naysayers knock it the more exiting it is........... I could easily have bought a new Beretta but that would be as boring as could be If you are happier without ever taking a chance I'm pleased for you.

I like bikes as well as guns, the bike that gives me the most enjoyment is a Chang Jiang, owning it is best described as extreme satisfaction. It is also the cheapest bike I have ever bought.

 

[mgrs]

I'm sure it will be fine....I was going to offer to sell you my 92fs until I saw the canadian dollar prices!

I'm not why the doubts on Turkish firearms continue to come up here and on other forums with folks acting like it is a third world country.

Some the Turkish license built clones like the Zenith MP5s and Stoeger M2 knockoffs are very good.

 

[myronman3]

ya know what? good luck.

when dealing with high pressure stuff that can cause real problems if there is one part not up to snuff...i prefer not to take chances. folks who decide to.....it’s your fingers, your eyes, your cash, your life.

you ask for opinions, and then scoff at those who point out possible issues. good luck man. seriously. i hope you dont get hurt or hurt someone else.

 

[myronman3]

I seriously hope it works out well for you.

 

[cupid stunt]

I'm not why the doubts on Turkish firearms continue to come up here and on other forums with folks acting like it is a third world country.

I don't think it's just doubts, I'm sure ego comes into it as well in varying degrees. People generally like to have the best quality and many have paid for the privilege. For some discovering that there is a pistol with possibility the same quality at half what they paid can seriously dent their ego, especially if it turns out to be true.

 

[cupid stunt]

ya know what? good luck.

when dealing with high pressure stuff that can cause real problems if there is one part not up to snuff...i prefer not to take chances. folks who decide to.....it’s your fingers, your eyes, your cash, your life.

you ask for opinions, and then scoff at those who point out possible issues. good luck man. seriously. i hope you dont get hurt or hurt someone else.

I take calculated risks with firearms on a regular basis, I'm used to it. That said I don't consider shooting this particular firearm to be taking any more of a chance than shooting an Italian made Beretta.

If I scoff at opinions it's only opinions which would appear to be based on nothing more than superstition. Any genuine advice from an actual owner for example would be great.

 

[myronman3]

“made out of metal”. well shit. there is a definate statement of strength. or not.

steel? aluminum? pot metal?

i’ve seen people go down the same road with hi points. and those people swear up and down the same thing...just as reliable, just as accurate, every bit as good, “i’d trust my life...”.

more power to ya if you believe it. i will stick with the proven platforms made from known materials. “Metal”....to broad a claim that leaves open too many questions.

Again, good luck.

 

[cupid stunt]

“made out of metal”. well shit. there is a definate statement of strength. or not.

steel? aluminum? pot metal?

i’ve seen people go down the same road with hi points. and those people swear up and down the same thing...just as reliable, just as accurate, every bit as good, “i’d trust my life...”.

more power to ya if you believe it. i will stick with the proven platforms made from known materials. “Metal”....to broad a claim that leaves open too many questions.

Again, good luck.

Metal components as opposed to plastic Beretta components. I suspect all the metal components will be made from firearm quality steel alloy. I will let you know soon !

 

[cupid stunt]

The only plastic components I'm aware of are the grips.

 

[cupid stunt]

The best review I have found .

 

[308pirate]

I suspect all the metal components will be made from firearm quality steel alloy.

Why would they be, if it's a copy of the Beretta 92?

The frame should be aluminum.

 

[308pirate]

“made out of metal”. well shit. there is a definate statement of strength. or not.

steel? aluminum? pot metal?

i’ve seen people go down the same road with hi points. and those people swear up and down the same thing...just as reliable, just as accurate, every bit as good, “i’d trust my life...”.

more power to ya if you believe it. i will stick with the proven platforms made from known materials. “Metal”....to broad a claim that leaves open too many questions.

Again, good luck.

Honestly, I don't think you know much at all about the Turkish firearms industry to be passing those judgements.

How do I know? Your comparison to Hi Point.

 

[cupid stunt]

Why would they be, if it's a copy of the Beretta 92?

The frame should be aluminum.

That's a pity. I have a Walther P1, the only thing I don't like about it is the aluminium frame.

 

[308pirate]

That's a pity. I have a Walther P1, the only thing I don't like about it is the aluminium frame.

Not seeing the problem there. Not everything needs to be made of steel. Sometimes steel adds weight without adding anything positive or useful. Adding strength where it's not needed is not a positive in my book.

 

[cupid stunt]

This is what I based my assumption on..........

Girsan Regard MC

These high quality Turkish made pistols are part of the Tisas, Zigana, Girsan, family of firearms. They are renowned for providing high quality at a very competitive price point. This is a high quality steel pistol modeled after the Beretta 92 series of pistols.

Specifications:

• Caliber: 9mm
• Capacity: 10 Rounds
• Action: Hammer
• Frame: Steel
• Grip: Polymer
• Slide: Black Matte Finish
• Barrel: 4.9"
• Sights: 3-Dot System
• Trigger Weight: 5.5 lbs.
• Overall Length: 8.54"
• Weight: 31.04 oz.

 

[cupid stunt]

Not seeing the problem there. Not everything needs to be made of steel. Sometimes steel adds weight without adding anything positive or useful. Adding strength where it's not needed is not a positive in my book.

I know aluminium can be ok, but it's not substantial like cold steel. I should have compared the weight, it's the same as a Beretta more or less.

 

[308pirate]

I know aluminium can be ok, but it's not substantial like cold steel.

Do you fly?

"Substantial" isn't an absolute quality. It's relative to the application.

In case you can't tell, I'm an engineer......

 

[cupid stunt]

Do you fly?

"Substantial" isn't an absolute quality. It's relative to the application.

In case you can't tell, I'm an engineer......

Steel seems to be better at keeping it's finish though.

I once handled a cops Beretta 92 in France, I was surprized how light it was. The Girsan is actually lighter than the Beretta. 874 grams vs 945. I'm pissed off now.

 

[myronman3]

Honestly, I don't think you know much at all about the Turkish firearms industry to be passing those judgements.

How do I know? Your comparison to Hi Point.

actually....i know some. I have a cz ringneck shotgun. And i know where it was made. And it is a nice gun.

Dude’s title read...”talke me out of...” which to me means “point out possible negatives i havent thought of”.

in the end, i dont give a flying fuck or a fast rolling donut. It aint my cash, it aint my time, or my risk. So i really couldnt gives a fuck less. Dude askes for negatives.....alright. I stand by all the possible points i made. Damn thing could end up being something. Hell, some cheaply made gun years ago was selling a lot, they were made in croatia. Springfield ended up buying therights to them and BAM! They then released the “revolutionary” xd. Now i bet the xd owners will get pissed at me.

 

[cupid stunt]

actually.

Dude’s title read...”talke me out of...” which to me means “point out possible negatives i havent thought of”.

in the end, i dont give a flying fuck or a fast rolling donut. It aint my cash, it aint my time, or my risk. So i really couldnt gives a fuck less. Dude askes for negatives.....alright. I stand by all the possible points i made. Damn thing could end up being something. Hell, some cheaply made gun years ago was selling a lot, they were made in croatia. Springfield ended up buying therights to them and BAM! They then released the “revolutionary” xd. Now i bet the xd owners will get pissed at me.

You have not pointed out any facts negative or otherwise. Give me something factual that you actually know about the gun and I might take you seriously.

You seem to have anger issues.

 

[...]

you arent honestly looking for anyone to actually post any negatives......youve already made up your mind, as evidence that you already bought one.

you are looking for people to reaffirm your purchase for you.

 

[cupid stunt]

you arent honestly looking for anyone to actually post any negatives......youve already made up your mind, as evidence that you already bought one.

you are looking for people to reaffirm your purchase for you.

My already bought one comment came after it was obvious that nobody here is qualified to give an opinion either way. Not a single person has come forward to say they own one of these pistols, that being the case nobody is in a position to reaffirm my purchase for me.

At the start of the thread I stated that I was almost ready to pull the trigger, and that is exactly what I have done.

 

[myronman3]

anger issues? more like troll issues.

it was obvious that nobody here is qualified to give an opinion either way.....

Excellent. You have all the answers. Congrats. I’ve changed my postition from hoping it works out for you, to hoping it is a hopeless POS. You have just been regulated to the same catagory as the pants pisser and shitter......aka blocked. your bullshit “shooting into space” and “talk me out of” threads wont waste my time ever again. You have accompished much today.

 

[cupid stunt]

anger issues? more like troll issues.




Excellent. You have all the answers. Congrats. I’ve changed my postition from hoping it works out for you, to hoping it is a hopeless POS. You have just been regulated to the same catagory as the pants pisser and shitter......aka blocked. your bullshit “shooting into space” and “talk me out of” threads wont waste my time ever again. You have accompished much today.

I think he needs help.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

My already bought one comment came after it was obvious that nobody here is qualified to give an opinion either way. Not a single person has come forward to say they own one of these pistols, that being the case nobody is in a position to reaffirm my purchase for me.

Lol, I told you I own the 92A1 and the M9A3.

 

[cupid stunt]

Lol, I told you I own the 92A1 and the M9A3.
View attachment 7011034

I have a feelng that might be a Beretta.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Yea, it's a Beretta. What's more relevant to compare it to than the real deal? Granted, it's not a side by side, and the evolution and viability of the Beretta 92 is highly documented without me cosigning for it. The clones will likely not be proofed to such a degree where it matches exactly the original specifications or standards of Beretta. Will that matter? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't heard much about any of the clones except the Taurus, which I have held one in person. They are not too bad but compared to the real deal the fit and finish is unremarkable. Beretta is not a company I would want to compare an imitation to, they kinda set the bar pretty high in my opinion.

I think you'll still enjoy it, if you run it yourself and gain confidence in it even trust your life with it— but there is a chance of poor QC in a metallurgical and measurement spec/exactness with a ton of clones. To the point where it's almost a rule to expect a few "flyers" in quality with any clone. It happens to Beretta, too, but they stay on top of it really well. Just make sure it runs out of the box and don't get discouraged if it has a hiccup or two while breaking in. I seriously doubt it will blow up in your hand if people have any decent amount of input on them otherwise. You hear about shit like that pretty easily.