Zermatt RimX 22LR Review - Bartlein, Benchmark, GM, Krieger, Lilja

[padom]

You planning on shooting that R50 I sent you? I'm pretty curious as to whether your chamber just doesn't like R50, or whether you just have had some bum lots. The lot I sent you has shot extremely well in over half a dozen of my rifles.

Yep, as soon as I screw that Benchmark back on. I would like to keep it as apples to apples comparison to your Benchmark/chamber.. don't want to shoot it in one of these other barrels. Ill screw it on and shoot it after this Krieger....the last barrel in this review hasn't shipped from Lilja yet so ill put the Benchmark back on.

 

[pepelefrog]

Nice shooting, does your chamber shoot ELEY well?

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Tbh the only reason I haven't ordered a RimX already is that I like the short bolt throw on my T1X. Debating if that is minor enough that I wont miss it if I get a RimX. Padoms results are amazing which is making it more and more likely that I get a rimx.

You should wait on the new Vudoo, it will have the shorter bolt throw. That's what I'm doing.

 

[orkan]

The extraction system alone is reason enough to get a RimX.

 

[rick137]

@padom

Most interesting results. For example with the SK+ the precision of one 5 shot group will be determined by vertical dispersion and the next by horizontal dispersion. Truly ammunition roulette in a five shot CTC group at 100 yd.

 

[munsonbw]

So I cleaned the barrel after the last outing. Bore scoped and it was nice and clean. Took it back out to try and get the R50 to shoot consistently. Shot 30rd through it then shot a 10shot group then a 5x5. Damn ammo wants to shoot but its so inconsistent from group to group. Produces some of the smallest groups out of this rifle then 0.6 then tight as hell then 0.8. Im over it.

Thanks for putting the time in to do this comparison, really great work.

As a 22lr neophyte, what is the explanation on the good then bad groups with the R50? It would seem from a statistical point of view that a "bad" group would look like 4 in a tight group then one flier representing a random bad round. The larger groups you have look more evenly distributed, just in a larger size. Then the next group is super tight.

 

[padom]

Thanks for putting the time in to do this comparison, really great work.

As a 22lr neophyte, what is the explanation on the good then bad groups with the R50? It would seem from a statistical point of view that a "bad" group would look like 4 in a tight group then one flier representing a random bad round. The larger groups you have look more evenly distributed, just in a larger size. Then the next group is super tight.

The lot... that's why we lot test

 

[orkan]

@padom

Most interesting results. For example with the SK+ the precision of one 5 shot group will be determined by vertical dispersion and the next by horizontal dispersion. Truly ammunition roulette in a five shot CTC group at 100 yd.

The conditions have even more of an impact than the ammo at 100yds, if the ammo is even kind of good.

If the wind is full value, a 1mph wind + or - will give you nearly 2 tenths of a mil of deviation. That's essentially a 3/4" horizontal that will show up if it drops from 10mph to 9mph, not to mention the tenth of a mil vertical that will accompany it if it's changing angle at all. There just aren't a lot of people walking around that can read a 1mph wind variation without about half a dozen flags between the shooter and the 100yd line.

 

[munsonbw]

So the 6x5 you posted is from more than one lot? If so, that makes sense. If not, I still don't see how in one box you can get 5 "consistent" rounds, then 5 not so consistent, and so on. Of course, just like throwing multiple die, randomness can occur enough times to appear like a pattern and not be.

 

[padom]

So the 6x5 you posted is from more than one lot? If so, that makes sense. If not, I still don't see how in one box you can get 5 "consistent" rounds, then 5 not so consistent, and so on. Of course, just like throwing multiple die, randomness can occur enough times to appear like a pattern and not be.

No 1 lot. And I've tested that same R50 in 3 barrels now. Exact same results.

 

[orkan]

So the 6x5 you posted is from more than one lot? If so, that makes sense. If not, I still don't see how in one box you can get 5 "consistent" rounds, then 5 not so consistent, and so on. Of course, just like throwing multiple die, randomness can occur enough times to appear like a pattern and not be.

It happens. ... and it happens FREQUENTLY. Bad lots of ammo of high class pedigree, will very frequently have 5-10 random rounds in the box that will just stink up the place. You can get those 5-10 back to back, or you can get them scattered throughout the box. It's totally random. As mentioned... this is why it's important to lot test. Firing 100rnds from a lot in one rifle, is usually a good indicator of its potential.

 

[munsonbw]

Thanks, guys. I am quickly learning that 22lr is a finicky system. However, after shooting my first NRL22 match last weekend I am hooked. I am reading the threads both of you guys (and others, of course) have going with great interest.

 

[flatland1]

Padom - I'll be watching with interest to see how you get along with the Krieger on your RimX, and especially how it compare to the Bartlein. In the very short few years that I've been doing 22RF bbl work, I've done Kriegers on a Stiller 2500XR, a jelrod-converted 40XB repeater, and two V-22s. I think they're amazingly consistent, considering my lack of experience in chambering .22s. My only reamer at this point in time is an EPS from PTG. Would consider using something else if there was a design out there specifically for SK/Lapua that's proven to have an advantage over the EPS chamber.

I do have one Bartlein 22RF bbl - it was purchased as a bbl'd action on the last V-22 I bought for myself, so has Mike's RAVAGE chamber. It's a 22" Kukri, and on any given day, it and the 22" Krieger sendero on another V-22 will take turns being the most accurate with any/all of my select lots of SK Std+, Rifle Match, LR Match, and Lapua Center-X.

I'm now 68yrs old, and have some rather minor issues with cataracts. I think it's getting harder to see good enough to shoot really consistently, even with good scopes, and this also varies day-to-day. Last visit to the eye doc for my annual exam was just a couple of weeks ago, but based on what he saw, he wants me back in 6 months rather than wait a year. Not crazy about letting someone cut on my eyes, but...

 

[orkan]

if there was a design out there specifically for SK/Lapua that's proven to have an advantage over the EPS chamber.

Nevius reamer is what you're after.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Nevius reamer is what you're after.

What is a nevius reamer and why is it better than other match reamers?

 

[flatland1]

Nevius reamer is what you're after.

Kevin should know what he's doing when it comes to chamber design. Thanks, I'll look into it.

 

[Sagittarius]

The extraction system alone is reason enough to get a RimX.

That is the reason I now prefer the RimX.

 

[orkan]

What is a nevius reamer and why is it better than other match reamers?

Kevin Nevius

Kevin Nevius is probably one of the kindest and most humble souls in competitive shooting, with a big heart and a great sense of humour. This guy is impossible not to like but nearly impossible to…

www.lapua.com

 

[OSU Fisher]

Just sent in the email to keystone for 2 rim x BA. I was originally set on bartlein barrels but John talked me into the green mountains. Went 20" m24 on both. I was lost here and couldn't make up my mind. I want heavier ish and balanced. Will be shot prone majority of the time and they will both start off in krg bravos. Sometimes suppressed. Hope I made the right choice.... But am super excited!!!

 

[Schütze]

Just sent in the email to keystone for 2 rim x BA. I was originally set on bartlein barrels but John talked me into the green mountains. Went 20" m24 on both. I was lost here and couldn't make up my mind. I want heavier ish and balanced. Will be shot prone majority of the time and they will both start off in krg bravos. Sometimes suppressed. Hope I made the right choice.... But am super excited!!!

I think you have made the right decision. I went out shooting my B14R and RimX yesterday to compare them just for myself.
The RimX has the 20“ m24 contour keystone barrel John did for me and I screwed on myself. Both rifles have a tt diamond and the same athlon ares scope installed. Everybody looking at this please have in mind that the shooter is relatively inexperienced, about 750 rounds in shooting from a wooden table with bipod and rear bag just learned by reading here on this website. Prone not allowed on the range. These are all contentious 10 shoot groups, not as good as Orkan and Padom yet lol, but I can dream they will one day.
The worst groups are clearly shooter errors mainly breathing and cheek weld (heart rate in scope visual).
I think they are two perfect 22lr training rifles and can‘t imagine there will be better ones (don’t own a vudoo).
Both function perfect as far as I can say, including the tt diamonds set to 8.5 ounces.

 

[chrome]

Just sent in the email to keystone for 2 rim x BA. I was originally set on bartlein barrels but John talked me into the green mountains. Went 20" m24 on both. I was lost here and couldn't make up my mind. I want heavier ish and balanced. Will be shot prone majority of the time and they will both start off in krg bravos. Sometimes suppressed. Hope I made the right choice.... But am super excited!!!

You definitely want in on the Bartlein carbon fiber group buy....we need a few more to make it work.

 

[chrome]

That is the reason I now prefer the RimX.

Can we go deeper on this real quick, for the uneducated?

 

[OSU Fisher]

You definitely want in on the Bartlein carbon fiber group buy....we need a few more to make it work.

Trust me, its taken everything I have to not jump in. I'm a sucker for carbon! Just not sure if its worth the $$

 

[chrome]

Trust me, its taken everything I have to not jump in. I'm a sucker for carbon! Just not sure if its worth the $$

 

[Schütze]

just so nobody thinks I’m full of it lol

 

[orkan]

Can we go deeper on this real quick, for the uneducated?

The extraction system on the RimX is flush mount with the front of the bolt nose. This removes the necessity to cut extractor grooves into a barrel, which are notoriously difficult to time properly and ensure the extractors are sitting correctly as to not affect accuracy. By consequence, this gives the ability for you to swap out your own barrels, if you like messing with differently configured barrels or chambers, as many of us do.

Combine that with the 6:00 firing pin, tool-less bolt design, flawless feeding/extraction/ejection, best magazines available, and superior bolt lift and operation ergo's... and the RimX becomes the best 22lr repeater action available.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Kevin Nevius

Kevin Nevius is probably one of the kindest and most humble souls in competitive shooting, with a big heart and a great sense of humour. This guy is impossible not to like but nearly impossible to…

www.lapua.com

Thanks for the read, appreciate the link. So this guy has his own rimfire reamer? I have never seen nor heard of it. Where can I get/see a drawing for the reamer?

 

[orkan]

Thanks for the read, appreciate the link. So this guy has his own rimfire reamer? I have never seen nor heard of it. Where can I get/see a drawing for the reamer?

Not hard to have your own reamer. Just call up your favorite reamer maker and give them dimensions, and poof... you have your own. We have two 22LR Primal reamers. Our own design.

 

[chrome]

The extraction system on the RimX is flush mount with the front of the bolt nose. This removes the necessity to cut extractor grooves into a barrel, which are notoriously difficult to time properly and ensure the extractors are sitting correctly as to not affect accuracy. By consequence, this gives the ability for you to swap out your own barrels, if you like messing with differently configured barrels or chambers, as many of us do.

Combine that with the 6:00 firing pin, tool-less bolt design, flawless feeding/extraction/ejection, best magazines available, and superior bolt lift and operation ergo's... and the RimX becomes the best 22lr repeater action available.

Super helpful, thx.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Not hard to have your own reamer. Just call up your favorite reamer maker and give them dimensions, and poof... you have your own. We have two 22LR Primal reamers. Our own design.

Thanks for taking the time to post the drawing.

 

[jlwwade]

You guys pushed me over the edge I now have a new reamer and my action should ship in July!
Can‘t wait!!

 

[padom]

Krieger is screwed on and ready to go. I plan to get out Wednesday or Thursday if the weather permits.

 

[Schütze]

Krieger is screwed on and ready to go. I plan to get out Wednesday or Thursday if the weather permits.

Oh no, stop it.... I bought already a GM and have a Bartlein coming too because of you lol

 

[padom]

Oh no, stop it.... I bought already a GM and have a Bartlein coming too because of you lol

Don't worry I only have 1 more after the Krieger...Lilja is scheduled to be here Wednesday.

 

[SanginSpecial]

Don't worry I only have 1 more after the Krieger...Lilja is scheduled to be here Wednesday.

"Here", as in spun up and ready to shoot, or just delivered to Keystone? Either way, that was a fairly sudden change from the last time we chatted. Glad they finally got them out to you!

 

[padom]

"Here", as in spun up and ready to shoot, or just delivered to Keystone? Either way, that was a fairly sudden change from the last time we chatted. Glad they finally got them out to you!

Blanks...they still have to go get spun up.

 

[padom]

Which barrels are you going to sell?

Only time will tell. Haha

 

[flatland1]

Well, I'll wager you're the only one that's taken the time, $$$, & effort to have this many custom bbls done with your own reamer for a true, apples-to-apples comparison; certainly this early in the life of the RimX. Kudos to you, and thanks a bunch for putting the results up here on the Hide for all of us to enjoy reading about. I hope you've got a plan for posting a list of the group averages or aggs after you've been through all the barrels & gotten results that you have confidence in printing. Takes a lot of time & shooting, which is what I was getting at when I said "that you have confidence in printing" - I'm confident that you're taking the time to wait for decent, comparable shooting conditions so that you've got the best comparison of the barrels that you can reasonably get. Would be a lot easier on you if you had access to a good, well-lit 50-100yd indoor range....

 

[stevenc23]

Honestly don't know how you guys get groups as good as you do outdoors. Wind is never calm here in Colorado. Shot quite a few groups at 50 outdoors with 5-8mph twitchy breeze (mild for CO) and groups were mediocre at best even with high end ammo. Took it indoors and groups shrank dramatically. My take away was never do lot testing outdoors in CO.

 

[orkan]

Honestly don't know how you guys get groups as good as you do outdoors. Wind is never calm here in Colorado. Shot quite a few groups at 50 outdoors with 5-8mph twitchy breeze (mild for CO) and groups were mediocre at best even with high end ammo. Took it indoors and groups shrank dramatically. My take away was never do lot testing outdoors in CO.

By shooting really fast. Being able to manipulate the bolt quickly without violating NPA. This lets me get rounds off during steady conditions. Some days, nothing works. Just depends if the wind is steady or not. A nice steady 10mph wind isn’t actually that difficult to shoot in. A tearing 3-8 mph that changes intensity every 2 seconds is basically impossible to deal with.

 

[Redfisher60]

Honestly don't know how you guys get groups as good as you do outdoors. Wind is never calm here in Colorado. Shot quite a few groups at 50 outdoors with 5-8mph twitchy breeze (mild for CO) and groups were mediocre at best even with high end ammo. Took it indoors and groups shrank dramatically. My take away was never do lot testing outdoors in CO.

I’m up north of Fort Collins, and the Wyoming winds are almost always a challenge. I haven’t convinced myself I need to join Trigger Time yet, 100 yards indoors would be a treat.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Trigger Time yet, 100 yards indoors.

Shhh. Don't give away my secret sauce.

 

[stevenc23]

A tearing 3-8 mph that changes intensity every 2 seconds is basically impossible to deal with.

That pretty much describes Colorado on a good wind day

 

[orkan]

That pretty much describes Colorado on a good wind day

South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana are just like that. It's annoying when working with 22lr! I get just as many days that are 3-15mph ripping winds. Centerfire is SO much easier. lol

 

[TeebirdsRoc]

I'm in Northern Kentucky, right below Cincinnati, OH. I had an awesome facility with 100 yards indoors called "ready line" that just announced last week they are closing their doors for good Now I'll be driving an hour+ to shoot even 50 yards

 

[ntrinsik]

Super excited about seeing the Krieger results.. cause its the barrel I chose for my RimX.

 

[padom]

Had a virtually dead calm day today for 50yd RimX testing. A few infrequent 3mph gusts but pretty dead and the target showed. I had video recorded at both the firing line and at the target for the entire test which I will upload here shortly for anyone that cares to bore themselves.

This Krieger just barely edged out the Bartlein by 0.003" with a 0.177" 6x5 with SK Rifle Match! The 10x5 was 0.198". The best lots of CX werent far behind either. This is the first Krieger rimfire Ive shot and it didnt disappoint. Cant wait for 100yd testing up next!

 

[escopeta2020]

Took my Shilen barreled RimX our again today for casual ammo testing. 50yds and and several at 100yds. Lapua Pistol King was better than Midas +. SK STD + also did good for cheaper ammo.

 

[escopeta2020]

Took my Shilen barreled RimX our again today for casual ammo testing. 50yds and and several at 100yds. Lapua Pistol King was better than Midas +. SK STD + also did good for cheaper ammo.

For 100 yds shooting didn’t want move scope, just aim high. Another shooter decided to to shoot my my target when I was shooting @50 yds.

 

[flatland1]

padom - Your results with the Krieger validate my confidence in the ones I've got on V-22s & a CMP 40XB that jelrod did the V-22 mag repeater conversion on. I chambered all three of mine with a EPS reamer from PTG, and all three really like a lot of SK Rifle Match I found at Grafs three years ago. I had to do some explaining to the sales gal who I bought some lot samples from, but when she understood what I was after & why, she was good help, and at the time (June 2017), they were running a dealer special featuring free freight & insurance. So when I found a lot # that shot really well in my two 40Xs, and ordered a case of it, my dealer price was $638 delivered. She even called me back a couple of days later, asking if I wanted another case of the same lot - she'd taken it upon herself to go snooping through the warehouse, and had found one more unbroken case of it. Bless her heart - you bet I snapped it up at the same price! However, the next few times I called to ask for lot samples, I got some dude who really didn't have a clue, and what's worse - didn't care.

Whatever, thanks for posting the results with your Krieger...hope you have time to do some Center-X lot testing with it down the road....