-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Zermatt TL3 to a muzzle loader (list on #162)
- Thread starter EN2722
- Start date
That’s what I was wondering. Some switch the med Palma and marksman so I wasn’t sure.
@bohem I’m in.
For an Impact long action if possible, otherwise short action Impact.
I don't suppose I'm lucky enough for this to fit a Sendero barrel channel.
If not, would a replacement stock like an Oryx with a 1.35 barrel channel work?
Need to start assembling parts for the next hunting season.
Thank you for doing this.
For an Impact long action if possible, otherwise short action Impact.
I don't suppose I'm lucky enough for this to fit a Sendero barrel channel.
If not, would a replacement stock like an Oryx with a 1.35 barrel channel work?
Need to start assembling parts for the next hunting season.
Thank you for doing this.
Hidesmen in which have claimed a spot at @bohem TL3 (can also be used with an Origin with HTL recoil lug) Muzzle Loader Sale
Date: TBD
Zermatt Arms
Matt_KJ (TL3)
@Danup8520 (Origin)
@mtnhunter22
@b6graham
@Codiekfx400
@waspocrew
@Slim Reaper
@M4guru
@verdugo60
@hwy1strat
@wadebrown
@tsu45 (TL3)
@codym (TL3)
@King_beardsly (TL3)
@evilsvt
@brado16 (Origin)
@goinghunting
@Matt_3479 (TL3)
@FlatwaterArmory (TL3)
@Smokenaces (TL3)
@Farrsp2270
@Quest1000 (Origin)
@Elnicko
@Gledeasy
Impact
@Philys21
@Hawk in WY (In for a LA Impact)
ARC
@Winny94
Mac Bro Evo SS:
@Mech Eng
_____________________________________________________
Total: 28
Current as of December 12th, 2020
More to follow...
Date: TBD
Zermatt Arms
Matt_KJ (TL3)
@Danup8520 (Origin)
@mtnhunter22
@b6graham
@Codiekfx400
@waspocrew
@Slim Reaper
@M4guru
@verdugo60
@hwy1strat
@wadebrown
@tsu45 (TL3)
@codym (TL3)
@King_beardsly (TL3)
@evilsvt
@brado16 (Origin)
@goinghunting
@Matt_3479 (TL3)
@FlatwaterArmory (TL3)
@Smokenaces (TL3)
@Farrsp2270
@Quest1000 (Origin)
@Elnicko
@Gledeasy
Impact
@Philys21
@Hawk in WY (In for a LA Impact)
ARC
@Winny94
Mac Bro Evo SS:
@Mech Eng
_____________________________________________________
Total: 28
Current as of December 12th, 2020
More to follow...
Last edited:
Bad timing or I would be jumping in on this, been wanting another smokeless since I sold my savage.
Hey Guys (and Gals?)
I spoke with LW this morning. The barrels can be pulled a little faster than 18tw so I ordered them as 16's to give everyone a little more margin for high BC solids as well as the existing SML bullets on the market. I have shot the 302's from ASG in a 14 twist, they do fine even at 2900fps. So there is no problem that I'm aware of with a faster twist rate within those parameters.
I ordered 32 blanks, so we can put a max of 32 slots in the GB
The price for the breech plugs is $90 for a min quantity of 25 pcs on the Arrowhead LRMP Gen 2 plugs
The price for the modules we got 20% off retail as long as I buy at least 750pc.
If everyone in the GB buys 20-25 modules to go with the barrel that will cover about 600-700 so far. If people want more than 20pcs then I can order more pieces, we just need to know how many because this is a once and done order discount. Please order in quantities of 10pc increments.
Barrel blank, contouring, headspacing the breech plug - $475
Add muzzle threads in 3/4-24 or 11/16-24: $25
Keep, machine and engrave barrel slug for bullet sizing - $45
Breech Plug - $90
Modules - $88 for 20 pcs (I was mistaken in my previous post, they had to go up 3 bucks per 20 pack) and additional 10 pc bags are $44
PVA Jetblast or Shockwave brake (Black Nitride Only): $100 or $115 respectively
Cerakote barrel alone (Black, FDE, OD Green) - $100
Cerakote brake with barrel - add $25
Shipping CONUS - $30
Barrels can be finished up to 27" long while including the 2" long "swaging slug" for a Swing Lock die.
Barrels can be finished up to 29" without a swing lock slug
Finish lengths will be offered as follows
23, 25, 27, 29
Contouring will be MP, MM or HP with the modification on a 5.5" shank length at 1.25" round shanks.
Jetblasts are available at 11/16-24
Shockwaves are available at 3/4-24
I suggest the Shockwave for max recoil reduction.
Actions available are for the ones that folks have listed interested in on @Matt_KJ 's list plus some Curtis ones.
If someone wants to do it on a 700 or a Savage action we'll do it as a custom outside of the group buy and we'll need your action. I cannot handle a group buy with actions coming in and out as well. ETA: @Mech Eng I know I promised you earlier that we'd do your Mack Bros if you sent it it. I'll still do that for you since I already agreed to it. I don't want to complicate things by doing more of them though. Sorry folks.
We will not be taking order changes. So please make sure you order what you want, we're going to process these as fast as possible when the blanks arrive and mixups happen much more often when orders are changed. Deposits cover the cost of the parts ordered. Cancellations are a lost deposit. These are all being custom ordered and parts are being ordered based on the orders placed. We are ordering modules and other small parts immediately based on orders placed.
There have been a few guys lately who placed barreled action orders and then 3 weeks cancelled due to "Covid" related reasons. I get it, but please understand this isn't Amazon. Deposits are $400, balance is due when the work is completed per the terms on the website. Again, cancellations mean you're going to get a box of parts based on the above pricing. If we've started cutting you will owe us for the labor put into the order already.
The currently estimated delivery for the blanks is mid to late February and it will take about a month or so for machine work to be completed, about 3-4 more weeks for all the painting and lasering to be done. Figure orders placed now will be shipped out of here around mid to late April. If something needs to change due to parts availability we will update in this thread on Sniper's Hide. The gun industry is absolutely crazy right now, we will do our best to inform everyone how things are going.
Here is the link for deposits.
I spoke with LW this morning. The barrels can be pulled a little faster than 18tw so I ordered them as 16's to give everyone a little more margin for high BC solids as well as the existing SML bullets on the market. I have shot the 302's from ASG in a 14 twist, they do fine even at 2900fps. So there is no problem that I'm aware of with a faster twist rate within those parameters.
I ordered 32 blanks, so we can put a max of 32 slots in the GB
The price for the breech plugs is $90 for a min quantity of 25 pcs on the Arrowhead LRMP Gen 2 plugs
The price for the modules we got 20% off retail as long as I buy at least 750pc.
If everyone in the GB buys 20-25 modules to go with the barrel that will cover about 600-700 so far. If people want more than 20pcs then I can order more pieces, we just need to know how many because this is a once and done order discount. Please order in quantities of 10pc increments.
Barrel blank, contouring, headspacing the breech plug - $475
Add muzzle threads in 3/4-24 or 11/16-24: $25
Keep, machine and engrave barrel slug for bullet sizing - $45
Breech Plug - $90
Modules - $88 for 20 pcs (I was mistaken in my previous post, they had to go up 3 bucks per 20 pack) and additional 10 pc bags are $44
PVA Jetblast or Shockwave brake (Black Nitride Only): $100 or $115 respectively
Cerakote barrel alone (Black, FDE, OD Green) - $100
Cerakote brake with barrel - add $25
Shipping CONUS - $30
Barrels can be finished up to 27" long while including the 2" long "swaging slug" for a Swing Lock die.
Barrels can be finished up to 29" without a swing lock slug
Finish lengths will be offered as follows
23, 25, 27, 29
Contouring will be MP, MM or HP with the modification on a 5.5" shank length at 1.25" round shanks.
Jetblasts are available at 11/16-24
Shockwaves are available at 3/4-24
I suggest the Shockwave for max recoil reduction.
Actions available are for the ones that folks have listed interested in on @Matt_KJ 's list plus some Curtis ones.
If someone wants to do it on a 700 or a Savage action we'll do it as a custom outside of the group buy and we'll need your action. I cannot handle a group buy with actions coming in and out as well. ETA: @Mech Eng I know I promised you earlier that we'd do your Mack Bros if you sent it it. I'll still do that for you since I already agreed to it. I don't want to complicate things by doing more of them though. Sorry folks.
We will not be taking order changes. So please make sure you order what you want, we're going to process these as fast as possible when the blanks arrive and mixups happen much more often when orders are changed. Deposits cover the cost of the parts ordered. Cancellations are a lost deposit. These are all being custom ordered and parts are being ordered based on the orders placed. We are ordering modules and other small parts immediately based on orders placed.
There have been a few guys lately who placed barreled action orders and then 3 weeks cancelled due to "Covid" related reasons. I get it, but please understand this isn't Amazon. Deposits are $400, balance is due when the work is completed per the terms on the website. Again, cancellations mean you're going to get a box of parts based on the above pricing. If we've started cutting you will owe us for the labor put into the order already.
The currently estimated delivery for the blanks is mid to late February and it will take about a month or so for machine work to be completed, about 3-4 more weeks for all the painting and lasering to be done. Figure orders placed now will be shipped out of here around mid to late April. If something needs to change due to parts availability we will update in this thread on Sniper's Hide. The gun industry is absolutely crazy right now, we will do our best to inform everyone how things are going.
Here is the link for deposits.
Last edited:
No, an Origin order will come for an Origin.
The HLR lug was deigned to allow use of existing TL3-SA barrels on the Origin.
Perfect! Thanks for the clarification, something said in the earlier posts had me wondering.
M24 has a smaller shank (1.2 vs 1.25) and sits directly between an MM and HP, weight wise the MM is identical to an M24.
The muzzle on an M24 is 0.9
MM is 0.88
HP 0.92
For the sake of processing a GB quickly I had to deselect some options and this was a pretty easy one to forego since it's so close to 2 other contours.
Ah yes, I see that now. Would do Medium Palma then.
Gotcha, will do a medium Palma then.
For the Canucks on the thread, i'm going to shoot Tom an email and see what he says. Will keep you posted.
I emailed Joe @PVA and asked the same thing. Also inquired if fluting would be a option for weight reduction.
I’ve messaged Tom and he said he’s going look into it. But I’d shoot him a message anyways to let him know there’s more then 1 interested.
Matt
Question for guys hunting out west...What are the options for open sights on these? Only option I've been about to find that works with a pic rail and doesn't require drilling in the barrel is the Revic Exo. Any other options I'm missing?
As did I.. hope he can work out a deal and get some north of the border.
I'm actually down for two barrels. I'd think the SR3 and TL3 (short actions) are the same dimensions, as I'm not 100% sure if I'm going to use an existing action or get a new one to play around with.
As for the 5.5'' shank.. I guess most are running these in a chassis? If not, I figure I'd have to open up the stock if inlet for a standard medium palma (for example).
This is going to be a blast to play around with.
I recommend Paul from Pro Precision for fluting. I am not doing it on a group buy though to keep things streamlined.
TL3-SA & SR3-SA are the same
Likewise the -LA are the same.
The barrel slug is only used if you are going to using a swing lock die for full-engraving bullets before loading.
It may be a requirement for solids, I am no sure yet. It is not a requirement for jacketed bullets.
It has 2 additional machine ops as well as a laser engraving and tracking step, hence the extra cost.
TL3-SA & SR3-SA are the same
Likewise the -LA are the same.
The barrel slug is only used if you are going to using a swing lock die for full-engraving bullets before loading.
It may be a requirement for solids, I am no sure yet. It is not a requirement for jacketed bullets.
It has 2 additional machine ops as well as a laser engraving and tracking step, hence the extra cost.
The drop is used to make a full form die to engrave the bullets with the rifling from your barrel as bohem said. If shooting solids it helps the bullet swell into the rifling. Since the bullet is already sitting in the rifling verses being driven into it like a center fire, harder bullets sometimes need this.
I have 2 origins with mz barrels on them now, one .40 and one .45. All the same components bohem is using other than barrel maker. We are using jacketed bullets by Pittman and arrowhead and just smooth size for them. We are mainly shooting blackhorn because the matches don't allow smokeless and haven't had any issues.
Took my buddies .40 to a mile smooth formed and shot great
bohem, what is the bearing surface length on the solids you plan on making?
Overall bullet length?
Land riders .(451), or full form bullets (.458)
Bullet weight?
The vast majority of custom muzzle loader bullets are shot in 1:20 twist barrels...and have been shot is barrels with twists as slow as 1:30
On one of my SMLs, I have a 31" 1:17 twist Brux barrel, but I knew I was going to shoot 300 to 400 grain+ bullets (415) @ 2850,
or 335 APBs @ 3230
Some of these guys might just end up using a lighter (250 grain) bullet such as Arrowhead, Fury or Parkers
Is a 1:16 twist going to be too much for those thin jacketed (.015-.020") bullets, with a very short bearing surface?
Have you test fired your longer bearing surface solids yet?
I had a little luck with the lighter Barnes 416 bullets in my 416 SMLs
Overall bullet length?
Land riders .(451), or full form bullets (.458)
Bullet weight?
The vast majority of custom muzzle loader bullets are shot in 1:20 twist barrels...and have been shot is barrels with twists as slow as 1:30
On one of my SMLs, I have a 31" 1:17 twist Brux barrel, but I knew I was going to shoot 300 to 400 grain+ bullets (415) @ 2850,
or 335 APBs @ 3230
Some of these guys might just end up using a lighter (250 grain) bullet such as Arrowhead, Fury or Parkers
Is a 1:16 twist going to be too much for those thin jacketed (.015-.020") bullets, with a very short bearing surface?
Have you test fired your longer bearing surface solids yet?
I had a little luck with the lighter Barnes 416 bullets in my 416 SMLs
Certainly a lot of good information here!
As far as barrel lengths, are you guys who are shooting longer barrels seeing greatly increased velocities? My only experience with ML's are my T/C Omegas and Encores, which are 26''. But if it's not too much of a velocity loss would go shorter (23" or so) to make it a little lighter and more manageable while hunting.
As far as barrel lengths, are you guys who are shooting longer barrels seeing greatly increased velocities? My only experience with ML's are my T/C Omegas and Encores, which are 26''. But if it's not too much of a velocity loss would go shorter (23" or so) to make it a little lighter and more manageable while hunting.
The biggest gain with a longer barrel (28-32") is mainly seen when using slow powders with heavy pay loads
My best load in my 31" Brux is 131 grains of RL-16 and a 335 grain bullet. (~3230 fps)
It's basically a target shooting SML, it weighs 17 lbs+
For you guys hunting, 25-26" is a great barrel length... that's what 3 of my "hunting" SMLs have
25-26" is lighter, maneuverable, and it doesn't have that "10 foot pole" feeling to it
But you guys absolutely need a recoil proof scope, no matter what.
I don't recommend a 1" class VX3 scope for these guns, on a regular hunting rifle...yes
A SML...no
My best load in my 31" Brux is 131 grains of RL-16 and a 335 grain bullet. (~3230 fps)
It's basically a target shooting SML, it weighs 17 lbs+
For you guys hunting, 25-26" is a great barrel length... that's what 3 of my "hunting" SMLs have
25-26" is lighter, maneuverable, and it doesn't have that "10 foot pole" feeling to it
But you guys absolutely need a recoil proof scope, no matter what.
I don't recommend a 1" class VX3 scope for these guns, on a regular hunting rifle...yes
A SML...no
The designs currently being worked on are too juvenile in their development to provide any data along those lines except by saying that they're currently full form bullets for simplicity. I'm not going to comment on weight or BC's because as soon as I do the internet has a way of writing that in stone and then when something changes certain people get upset.
I'm designing around an 18 twist profile currently but as I mentioned above I have shot the 302 ASG's in a 14 twist to 2900fps without any ill effects.
Last edited:
Does anyone recommend YouTube videos that show these things going off?
Common trends I’m seeing is recoil pad, recoil pad, and bomb proof scope
So I’m rethinking my KRG Bravo hunting set-up.
Also, 2900+ FPS with a 300+ grain projectile is nuts and makes my giddy!
Common trends I’m seeing is recoil pad, recoil pad, and bomb proof scope
So I’m rethinking my KRG Bravo hunting set-up. Also, 2900+ FPS with a 300+ grain projectile is nuts and makes my giddy!
This is why I HIGHLY recommend a muzzle brake.Does anyone recommend YouTube videos that show these things going off?
Common trends I’m seeing is recoil pad, recoil pad, and bomb proof scope
Also, 2900+ FPS with a 300+ grain projectile is nuts and makes my giddy!
I’m absolutely taking your recommendation. I’ve learned the hard way not listening, not again!
Asked this yesterday but think it got lost in the thread. For guys hunting out west, what are the option on these for open sights that dont require drilling into the barrel? Only option I’ve been able to find that mounts to a pic rail is the gunwerks/revic EXO.
I have one of the Arrowhead barrels threaded and shoot my Silencerco Hybrid on it. Not sure what the upper limit is in terms of pressure on the can so I am running mine at a mild 2350 fps with a 300gr bullet, the can is rated for .45-70 so I think I’m pretty safe with 56gr H4198 on a 26” barrel.
XS Ghost Ring Sights | Ghost Sights | XS Sights
These white stripe dovetail front sights draw focus to the front sight for fast target reference while also offering fast target acquisition.
www.xssights.com
XS Ghost Ring Sights | Ghost Sights | XS Sights
These white stripe dovetail front sights draw focus to the front sight for fast target reference while also offering fast target acquisition.
This is a good idea for the rear sight. Thank you. As far as front sights go will there be mounting holes in the barrel? (probably a better question for @bohem ) Or what would options be for front sights? Looked on their site and couldn't find anything to mount for a front sight.
No, we're not planning on putting front sights on the barrels. Prefits time up close enough for cosmetics but not for that.
Folks,
Not for nothing here but it sounded like there was all kinds of interest and people put their names on the list. We have exactly 1 person who placed a deposit. I have til the end of the week to cut the barrel quantity back down to a min quantity order. If I don't have the deposits in as people requested then I'm going to chop down the order so I'm not sitting on so many very specific blanks and we're going to have to cancel the GB. The barrel blanks and parts from ASG are far too expensive to buy that many and drop them here without buyers.
Not for nothing here but it sounded like there was all kinds of interest and people put their names on the list. We have exactly 1 person who placed a deposit. I have til the end of the week to cut the barrel quantity back down to a min quantity order. If I don't have the deposits in as people requested then I'm going to chop down the order so I'm not sitting on so many very specific blanks and we're going to have to cancel the GB. The barrel blanks and parts from ASG are far too expensive to buy that many and drop them here without buyers.
Was hoping this was the case. Thank you. If anyone has info on a barreled mounted front sight, other than the revic exo, that doesn’t require screw holes in the barrel that would be great. Trying to see what options are out there. Thanks guys.
I think there'd be a few Canadian orders incoming if we can work something out with Tom at GBT. I think he's reached out to you to see what can be done.
Yep, we've talked. I suggested to him to approach it as a handling fee plus import costs. There's nothing on the bone here to give him a further discount considering how expensive the components are. This is basically a marketing stunt pricing deal to get some more attention to these conversions and put our name out there for making them. Regular pricing is going to be about $200 higher on the barrels and other parts are going to be retailed around 20% higher (Ecept the breech plugs, we didn't get a price break on them).
Similar threads
- Sticky
