-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Zermatt TL3 to a muzzle loader (list on #162)
- Thread starter EN2722
- Start date
Yes, we have more blanks than what's on the group buy. But the group buy pricing is closed.
The barrels are going to be a regular item that people can custom order from us like regular prefits.
- Feb 16, 2017
- 478
- 427
I'm finishing up some regular production orders and then we're running the SML's
The contours are going onto the machine next week. Since there are several different action options people requested for the SML's I'm getting the various tenon geometry updated from the usual programs so we can adapt them for the muzzle loader conversions.
I just got a ping when I logged in about this post.
Barrels are contoured, muzzle threaded, and I'm working on the breeches next week. Should be all done in about 10 days.
Status on these:
Barrel work is done, I'm doing final fitting on the breech plugs this week. I placed a PO with ASG for the compiled list of plugs and primer modules a few minutes ago.
Invoices for owed balances will be out sometime in the next week or so. Joe's on vacation starting tomorrow for a week and I'm going to be flying solo around here. Keeping machines running is the priority over writing invoices up so please bear with me on getting them out.
I think folks are going to really like these. I was shooting one of them on a Bighorn a couple weeks ago making sure everything was "right" before cutting a bunch more customer work. At 700 yard I could cover 3 shots with a credit card. I'm anxious for ML season in PA
Barrel work is done, I'm doing final fitting on the breech plugs this week. I placed a PO with ASG for the compiled list of plugs and primer modules a few minutes ago.
Invoices for owed balances will be out sometime in the next week or so. Joe's on vacation starting tomorrow for a week and I'm going to be flying solo around here. Keeping machines running is the priority over writing invoices up so please bear with me on getting them out.
I think folks are going to really like these. I was shooting one of them on a Bighorn a couple weeks ago making sure everything was "right" before cutting a bunch more customer work. At 700 yard I could cover 3 shots with a credit card. I'm anxious for ML season in PA
Email. I don't conduct business through PM's, it's too easy to lose things in transit, emails have some information and PM's have another. That's how mistakes end up with barrels being cut to different requests.
I've thought about it, I have a design that has been made and sold by Warner Tool already for long match bullets. I'm going to get the 45 caliber hunting bullets off the machine and then look at scaling it down to 40.
I'll put it up tomorrow. It's not currently listed because I didn't want to take more orders until the group buy ones were done.
I finished up all the machining 100% on them, the ones that aren't being cerakoted are going to be invoiced for the balance tomorrow. The cerakoted ones are all out at paint and should be back by September 1st, we'll invoice when we have them back and get them ready to head out immediately.
The process is pretty well ironed out now, the machine work is of course very clean and the target performnace has been very good. I think folks are going to be very happy with them.
Will you share the load data which is producing good results on target?
Bullet, primer, and powder at least so we can start looking.
Thank you for doing this.
Bullet, primer, and powder at least so we can start looking.
Thank you for doing this.
Liability-wise, I can't share my exact data but here's the components I'm using:
ASG 307 NO Size bullets with H4198 and a CCI 250 primer. Each barrel being minutely different I suggest buying a test pack of the NSR Small and NSR Large to see which bullet fits better in your particular bore.
I started by using 45-70 loads and working up until I found pressure signs. There's a lot of discussion on the internet about them ranging from in the lower 60's up to above 72 grains of H4198
I never got above 69.0gr because even with a shockwave brake on there the recoil was more than I cared to shoulder and I found excellent accuracy below that.
For those who didn't get in on the group buy, I've updated the website listing for a custom prefit.
patriotvalleyarms.com
Smokeless ML Prefits - Patriot Valley Arms
patriotvalleyarms.com
- Feb 16, 2017
- 478
- 427
A little krylon until the season is over and I can send the barrel to LRI for fluting and cerakote.
The brake is bored to allow for load through and found Arrowhead has a funnel that works.
45CAL LOAD THROUGH FUNNELS - Arrowhead Rifles
This is for 45cal brakes that have been bored to .500". Funnel stem is .497" OD and .452" ID. This allows bullet to be loaded through funnel. 45cal brakes bored under 0.500" should use these funnels. Click Here
www.arrowheadrifles.com
Perfect, thanks! Wanted to confirm before i completed my arrowhead order.The brake is bored to allow for load through and found Arrowhead has a funnel that works.
45CAL LOAD THROUGH FUNNELS - Arrowhead Rifles
This is for 45cal brakes that have been bored to .500". Funnel stem is .497" OD and .452" ID. This allows bullet to be loaded through funnel. 45cal brakes bored under 0.500" should use these funnels. Click Here
No restrictions in Georgia regulations.
I don't even see any definitions for black powder, nor muzzle loaders.
Looks like I am good to go...
- Feb 16, 2017
- 478
- 427
took mine to the range today.
I started with some 300 XLD’s from Luke at ASG, per his recommendation. I also picked up his 3 piece rod and load through funnel for the shockwave. I already had a smooth sizer and lee hand press from a mcwhorter muzzleloader I used to own. I threw 30 charges of each (just in case) of the following 68 gr of 4198, 70 gr of h4198, and 100 gr of h4895. This is out of a 25” medium Palma with a shockwave. Most groups hovered around 1” or less at 111 yards with a 14-20mph 30-50 percent value wind in Kansas at 91-95F and 1350ft. Chrono data is from a lab radar and 5-6 shots, I didn’t record the decimal place on the SD’s for you attention to detail nazis.
68gr H4198 = 2751 fps ES 5 SD 2
70gr H4198 = 2791 fps ES 28 SD 12
100gr H4895 3044 fps ES 15 SD 5
The recoil difference from 68 to 70 is significant. I think the most accurate was the 68gr, but in Kansas I’ll take a little over a 1” group if I can beat some of that wind. So I settled on the 4895, against my shoulders wishes.
I found the best method to get the same seating pressure, which seems to make a big difference on muzzle velocity, was to run a 45 cal nylon brush down the barrel once between shots. The 4895 doesn’t burn as clean and most likely isn’t completely burning. But I don’t care because I’m getting better velocity out of a muzzle stuffer than my 338 RUM with a smaller bullet.
disclaimer - use load data at own risk, those work for me, they may not for you.
ETA: I used CCI 250’s primarily. I tried FGMM215 and the accuracy fell off.
I started with some 300 XLD’s from Luke at ASG, per his recommendation. I also picked up his 3 piece rod and load through funnel for the shockwave. I already had a smooth sizer and lee hand press from a mcwhorter muzzleloader I used to own. I threw 30 charges of each (just in case) of the following 68 gr of 4198, 70 gr of h4198, and 100 gr of h4895. This is out of a 25” medium Palma with a shockwave. Most groups hovered around 1” or less at 111 yards with a 14-20mph 30-50 percent value wind in Kansas at 91-95F and 1350ft. Chrono data is from a lab radar and 5-6 shots, I didn’t record the decimal place on the SD’s for you attention to detail nazis.
68gr H4198 = 2751 fps ES 5 SD 2
70gr H4198 = 2791 fps ES 28 SD 12
100gr H4895 3044 fps ES 15 SD 5
The recoil difference from 68 to 70 is significant. I think the most accurate was the 68gr, but in Kansas I’ll take a little over a 1” group if I can beat some of that wind. So I settled on the 4895, against my shoulders wishes.
I found the best method to get the same seating pressure, which seems to make a big difference on muzzle velocity, was to run a 45 cal nylon brush down the barrel once between shots. The 4895 doesn’t burn as clean and most likely isn’t completely burning. But I don’t care because I’m getting better velocity out of a muzzle stuffer than my 338 RUM with a smaller bullet.
disclaimer - use load data at own risk, those work for me, they may not for you.
ETA: I used CCI 250’s primarily. I tried FGMM215 and the accuracy fell off.
Last edited:
Had a few inquire about the single shot sled I'm running and info is below. Will also let you know if your TL3 is AI cut the AICS/CS sled will need modified and CNCSWERKS can make it happen. The sled they offer for AW requires no additional mods. Hope this helps.
cncswerks.com
cncswerks
cncswerks.com
I am hearing that there is possible problem with these barrels and the rifling opening up.
If anyone has such experiences, please post them.
I had really wanted to build one of these, but would rather avoid an expen$ive mistake.
Thanks.
If anyone has such experiences, please post them.
I had really wanted to build one of these, but would rather avoid an expen$ive mistake.
Thanks.
Last edited:
I have been corrected:
"The barrel opens up in the area that it’s contoured not the chamber.
Button rifling puts stress in the barrel and when you remove metal it “opens up” or expands to find relief.
So the chamber area is tight but the rest of the barrel opens.
So don’t go with a HEAVILY contoured barrel, as that removes more metal and causes the barrels to expand."
I am not trying to cause problems, just seeking information to make a purchase.
Thanks!
"The barrel opens up in the area that it’s contoured not the chamber.
Button rifling puts stress in the barrel and when you remove metal it “opens up” or expands to find relief.
So the chamber area is tight but the rest of the barrel opens.
So don’t go with a HEAVILY contoured barrel, as that removes more metal and causes the barrels to expand."
I am not trying to cause problems, just seeking information to make a purchase.
Thanks!
Sorry that my newbie questions are possibly offending people?
I am merely seeking information so as to not endure a costly mistake on my part.
At this time I will have to pass on this interesting build.
Thanks to everyone for all the posts and information.
I sincerely enjoy this place, MUCH more than all the other sites, that i know of.
I am merely seeking information so as to not endure a costly mistake on my part.
At this time I will have to pass on this interesting build.
Thanks to everyone for all the posts and information.
I sincerely enjoy this place, MUCH more than all the other sites, that i know of.
- Feb 16, 2017
- 478
- 427
They work! 274 yards. Literally a football sized hole on exit. Bang flop!
Would love to see some pics of that if you can PM them to me. An that young man looks beyond excited!
Not a PVA but I do have an arrowhead smokeless barrel that I use a SilencerCo hybrid on. It does take much of the crack out and helps with the recoil but I wouldn’t call it hearing safe. My ears don’t ring on the first shot but I wouldn’t take more than a shot or two without hearing protection on.
That being said I do think it provides enough advantage that I had the barrel cut back to 20” to better facilitate its use. I just hope that Dead Air releases a 3/4”x24 .46 cal KeyMo brake so that I can use my KeyMo mounts on it instead of direct thread for easier reloading.
That being said I do think it provides enough advantage that I had the barrel cut back to 20” to better facilitate its use. I just hope that Dead Air releases a 3/4”x24 .46 cal KeyMo brake so that I can use my KeyMo mounts on it instead of direct thread for easier reloading.
I can't add anything to the SML / Suppressor discussion, but I got out at the end of last week and shot my SML at 200yds and 300yds.
From a 100yd zero, using 68gr of IMR4198, 275gr Parker Black Max, 200yds + 2.0MOA, 300yds +6.0MOA. My three shot group at 300yds was about 2.75 inches. I'm very pleased. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to get in the woods for muzzleloader bear season. Oh well.
From a 100yd zero, using 68gr of IMR4198, 275gr Parker Black Max, 200yds + 2.0MOA, 300yds +6.0MOA. My three shot group at 300yds was about 2.75 inches. I'm very pleased. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to get in the woods for muzzleloader bear season. Oh well.
I have a few smokeless guns and with a .45 bore the 5/8 thread doesn't leave much meat. All of them that are threaded are 3/4.
On another note ,not sure how to tag bohem, was wondering what the status is on the .45 monolithic bullets? We are getting a gun done for a guy going on a hunt in California and not many options with a good bc.
Thanks
I’m currently shooting the 275 gr XLDs from Arrowhead with some 4198 at 2900. Plan to try some heavier bullets after Deer season is over.
- Feb 16, 2017
- 478
- 427
Similar threads
- Sticky
