there are reasons dogs have been with us for > 15K years. the benefits are obvious.

I would say we need to differentiate between competitors and intended use of rifle. You are probably right about PRS shooters. They don’t need the precision level of F-Class or BR. I don’t mean this in a demeaning way because some PRS stages are at an unknown distance and error in ranging outweigh the need for ultra precision. In this regard PRS is more difficult. F-Class and BR are entirely KD with smaller targets which puts a premium on ultra-precision. I expect a PRS shooter could get away with not cleaning for several hundred rounds while that would give a BR shooter a heart attack.

Hunting rifles are another extreme. My hunting rifles (primarily deer and coyote) are cleaned maybe every other year and just with a solvent. These rifles are shot infrequently. Serious Varmint hunters are a different breed and their cleaning methods are similar to competition shooters.

So sorry to hear this.

The mil vs MOA debate is missing the point of this thread. It's a fucking tangent theta for 60% off. Those scopes never get discounted. Even if you hate MOA for whatever reason, tangent theta glass is worth major consideration. Not to mention the prospect of flipping that scope for a big profit. It's a no brainer - buy the scope at that price.

ma smith said:

Nobody shoots 22Lr .3-.4 at 100 yds [ETA- "consistently"] that's honestly just BS

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I totally agree. My most consistent average at 100 is .70, I know some that would beat that but our club champ can get to .64 regularly in his 1 piece rest.

Rob01 said:

Yeah there is always an abstract discussion that doesn’t have any ties to actual use to try and bend it around.



Yes we did and even then nothing was tied to any linear. You were given the target size and had to get the range. Whether the size was in inches or cm or whatever you just used the right tool/calculation and got the answer. Also as you know ranging with the reticle is not a very exact way to get range especially past about 600 yards. Not the best basis for an argument now about linear connection to angular.

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Yeah, I've learned my lesson. That's what I get for coming back to this hobby after 10 years.

$1000

Gunfighter14e2 said:

Murphy is my shadow, the exact reason I will never allow that skill to fade away. In the Subsonic matches we use to do LRF's & devices other than a ret were not allowed, (dialing was kicked to the curb in some stages was well).

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Yup it’s a good skill to have and why I still have my mil dot master(which also ranges in moa) in my pack.

nagantguy said:

I try not to profile to hard - but there is a fellow here whom likes to mount things and he thinks all people even kids and the old should be regularly beaten by police because everyone in a city is a shit human being and it’s the only thing that works and then we find out he also hates dogs and likes when they cook alive in vehicles.

I’ve been doing some reading and cruelty to young and old and animals is a very “special” classification .

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this particular asshole appears to have much more concern for murders and rapists than for dogs and cats. to each his own.
early cruelty to animals is a well documented precursor to much worse behavior later in life.
interesting that hunters and fisherman seem to have more regard and affection for their animals than a lot of non hunters/fisherman.

You know, Are we talking .x as in inches or .x as in .1 mil?
I thought we were in mils, yeah, bull if inches.

So 1.08-1.44" is "doable"

taseal said:

There's a rather good discussion here form some time ago about it actually...

Rifle Scopes - Mrad IS Meteric

I often see guys saying milliradians aka mrads are not metric. I can understand wanting to say it isnt as we often use it with yards and inches however a milliradian is equal to 1/1000 of a radian. A radian is a SI derived unit and therefore part of the metric system. If my logic is...

www.snipershide.com

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Yeah there is always an abstract discussion that doesn’t have any ties to actual use to try and bend it around.

taseal said:

I guess that's my point. Soon scopes will just give your holds in their own "units" and 10-20 years from now, nobody will even use these. Eliminator 6 already does it. it gives your wind hold in "units of dots" it's neither MOA or MIL. just "dots of hold".

If you've been here long enough (you certainly have) we used to measure distance with our reticles. That was the point I was trying to make. It wasn't an argument of "you need to shoot 35 centimeters left".

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Yes we did and even then nothing was tied to any linear. You were given the target size and had to get the range. Whether the size was in inches or cm or whatever you just used the right tool/calculation and got the answer. Also as you know ranging with the reticle is not a very exact way to get range especially past about 600 yards. Not the best basis for an argument now about linear connection to angular.

Rob01 said:

Ranging with the reticle is a dead skill now with very affordable LRF. I know how to do it and have done it with both mil and moa in matches like the Allegheny Sniper Challenge and other matches that used to throw it in a stage before the PRS was formed to standardize everything. That said if I find myself trying to do it in my head something went very very wrong.



You just need to know the target size in a linear to range with the reticle and even then it doesn’t matter which angular you are using.

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I guess that's my point. Soon scopes will just give your holds in their own "units" and 10-20 years from now, nobody will even use these. Eliminator 6 already does it. it gives your wind hold in "units of dots" it's neither MOA or MIL. just "dots of hold".

If you've been here long enough (you certainly have) we used to measure distance with our reticles. That was the point I was trying to make. It wasn't an argument of "you need to shoot 35 centimeters left".

Of course barring the wind with that number. Ammunition is a big part in these as you know. Although Center X isn't the top shelf, nor the bottom, it does have some fliers here and there. I have some 100 yard targets to where I tracked the velocities and normally I'm in the 1085-1095 range depending on temp, but those ones that pop out at 1060's or 1115 or so do show up. The Garmin has been a pretty good tool to help with the wild shots that occur.
I'm debating a single shot Benchrest .22, it appears so far that it's going to be a challenge either building or buying. From my point of view--it better shoot better than the above or what's the point?

Welcome and thank you for your service!

Benchmade Infidel full size. Why anyone would buy anything else baffles me?

Rob01 said:

All that will do is show you being a troll as anyone who knows anything knows it’s not true but I am sure it will fire up some.

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There's a rather good discussion here form some time ago about it actually...

armorpl8chikn said:

Reminds me of the nightmare i had last night when my meds wore off about 0330...
Login to view embedded media
View attachment 8699344
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"........jus cut tha skein!!....."

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Total knee replacement? I hear the only one worse is the shoulder.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

he has done several books on a wide range. his book on immigration and "intellectuals and society" are among several of his masterpieces.

taseal said:

I know how to trigger many people here.

I'm gonna start a post and say Mils work better with the metric system than mils with the imperial system.

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All that will do is show you being a troll as anyone who knows anything knows it’s not true but I am sure it will fire up some.

Gunfighter14e2 said:

Agree with that. I always preferred the IPHY method not as much for shooting but for ranging. To me ranging is a way more important finite task, than just pulling the trigger as the head math is simpler, at least to me.

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Ranging with the reticle is a dead skill now with very affordable LRF. I know how to do it and have done it with both mil and moa in matches like the Allegheny Sniper Challenge and other matches that used to throw it in a stage before the PRS was formed to standardize everything. That said if I find myself trying to do it in my head something went very very wrong.

taseal said:

I see that. and I totally get it. I guess it helps when ranging without LRFs.

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You just need to know the target size in a linear to range with the reticle and even then it doesn’t matter which angular you are using.

I know how to trigger many people here.

I'm gonna start a post and say Mils work better with the metric system than mils with the imperial system.