Savage Kaboom at Local Range
- Thread starter enichols
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Light charge of a slow stick powder can bridge. Especially in cold weather and pressure will skyrocket and cause this. I've seen 2 different 300um's do this with both were using Retumbo. Below is the armor plate from Yamamoto after a 16" shell hit. Heat changes steel's molecular structucture combined with pressure will cause the why the action looks like pot metal. That action looks like it saw well over 250k psi The action was still locked in battery with what was left It did what it was supposed to do and saved the shooters face from being a bolt stop
I witnessed the same kind of failure last year at a match. Not a Savage. Dude beside me shooting a rifle with a suppressor. He fired, gun went boom….thought that’s strange….he is suppressed. Also felt something hit my shoulder. Looked over at him and the whole side of the rifle receiver was missing. 6.5 Creed factory ammo. Sustained cuts to hand and some shrapnel to the face. Had eye pro on thankfully. Dude sent rifle back for analysis. Determination was barrel had loosened from receiver and started to back out. Maybe same here?
Looks almost identical to this one, loader supposedly had 30 years experience which obviously doesnt translate to expertise.So... long ago and far away, I was able to tour the factory a few times. At their test range there was a rack of fully assembled guns from across the entire product line, all slated for destructive testing - aka 'Death Row'. Including (at the time) a row of 110BAs in .338LM. Those actions were supposedly rated for 130k psi... I asked "how the hell do you plan to blow one of *those* up?!?" The answer... "Probably fill the case with Blue Dot and sit a bullet on top."
FWIW the failure mode was supposed to look a lot like what happened here.
What Happens When You Load Pistol Powder in a Rifle Cartridge « Daily Bulletin
This is a grim tale. A man almost lost the use of his right hand, and did suffer terrible injuries to his fingers. All because he picked the wrong bottle of powder off the shelf. <img src=http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/denny1501.
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Spell check is going to be the absolute death of me. I hope everyone picked up, decapping dies.
This was preached to us by reloading manuals and articles regarding the .25-06 in the late 60’s and 70’s. While it could not be repeated in the lab, several documented events where very light charges (10 grains in a case that can easily hold 60 grains) of the old surplus H4831 had blown up rifles in that caliber.
All of my pistol powder i keep stored in a two round 105mm military wooden crate and have for years, all rifle powder is stored in other crates.
I would have to be drunk, blind, stupid or all three to mix them up and only keep one container out at a time.
Its also a practice of mine to look into cases i have charged before i start seeting bullets, the reason is it only happened once but i did seat one bullet into a case years ago without a powder charge.
Felt pretty stupid on that one.
I would have to be drunk, blind, stupid or all three to mix them up and only keep one container out at a time.
Its also a practice of mine to look into cases i have charged before i start seeting bullets, the reason is it only happened once but i did seat one bullet into a case years ago without a powder charge.
Felt pretty stupid on that one.
My dad taught me how to reload. One of the first lessons was the only powder that is in the hopper/charger/powder measure is the only powder on the bench. If I'm working with 260 and using 4350, I don't have Unique also on the bench because I want to load 45acp. Glad everyone is ok
That was some advice my dad gave me as well when I was learning to reload, was to keep a flashlight on the bench and look inside every single case before seating a bullet. I caught a couple bridged powder charges back when I loaded longer stick powder on a rotary RCBS.
Good reason to match the hand of the gun to the hand of the shooter.
An issue I found, IMR4350 as currently packaged and SR4759 is packaged in a bottle with a wrapper very close to the color of the 4350. Easy to mistake. I find that too many bottles of powder just look too close to other not similar powders.
Problems happen, Made it myself once, loaded 20 of 40 .223 rounds with WW296 instead of WW748. Guess what, double and triple checks during the process saved my leg and ass and hand. that very sweet little Kimber Predator, shooting creedmoor would have removed my right leg, probably my hand and who knows what else.
Double and triple check and then still check again. So, much of this thread would make an outstanding preface to any reloading manual or article.
In these days, I have solved a lot of this worry (not all but a lot) with the three rounds I load the most. I use three very distinct and distinctly packaged powders. Those three calibers I load for; .223 uses TAC in the square bottle, 6GT uses VARGET with the Hodgdon colored bottle and 6.5 Creedmoor, I am pretty much married too Superformance in its very maroon bottle. Makes it easy but not foolproof, still triple check both before and during the loading process. (Oh, did I forget to mention, I use checkweights on the scale to verify the weight I set on the scale?).
Problems happen, Made it myself once, loaded 20 of 40 .223 rounds with WW296 instead of WW748. Guess what, double and triple checks during the process saved my leg and ass and hand. that very sweet little Kimber Predator, shooting creedmoor would have removed my right leg, probably my hand and who knows what else.
Double and triple check and then still check again. So, much of this thread would make an outstanding preface to any reloading manual or article.
In these days, I have solved a lot of this worry (not all but a lot) with the three rounds I load the most. I use three very distinct and distinctly packaged powders. Those three calibers I load for; .223 uses TAC in the square bottle, 6GT uses VARGET with the Hodgdon colored bottle and 6.5 Creedmoor, I am pretty much married too Superformance in its very maroon bottle. Makes it easy but not foolproof, still triple check both before and during the loading process. (Oh, did I forget to mention, I use checkweights on the scale to verify the weight I set on the scale?).
I’m going to guess a squib, just because he likely loaded those 50 cartridges at the same time and it wouldn’t have made it that far if pistol powder was in them.
Could have been a bad bullet. A .270 or 7mm got past QC got squished in the case but not down the bore.
That wouldn't work in any caliber specific sizing die i own, and would have crushed the neck and shoulder if forced. Chambering would be out of the question as well.
Glad nobody was hurt too bad,
Now we need the Savage fans to tell us how accurate they are... you wonder when we tell you in the podcasts how much we wrench on Savages in classes and people want to argue with us, we see 100s of shooters across the country every year, not just one location or situation , but a wide variety
Friend's don't let friends shoot Savages
Now we need the Savage fans to tell us how accurate they are... you wonder when we tell you in the podcasts how much we wrench on Savages in classes and people want to argue with us, we see 100s of shooters across the country every year, not just one location or situation , but a wide variety
Friend's don't let friends shoot Savages
The last savage I messed with, every single screw was loose. It was in a MDT chassis it came from the factory in it, and every single screw on that chassis was loose also, even the little panel screws.
I wonder how many scopes get sent back because of loose base screws.
It seems that everyone wants to blame the shooter and a bad reload. If you look at the pictures there isn't any damage to the barrel apparent. If you do a little research you might find that there have been more than a few Savages fail because of firing out of battery. That would better fit the damage in the photos.
If it would have fired out of battery then there wouldnt be the distinct and deep impression of the bolt lugs on the reciever lug abutment would there ?
Normally an explosion that big in a bolt action is operator error
Either pistol powder in case or squib that blew up, but generally speaking bolt actions don't explode, wasn't the bolt in the action and locked in place? It sounds like it blew when fired
Interesting that the barrel "looks" just fine. Case didn't stand and chance, gas cut through the bolt like a block of cheese and away went the action.
That was indeed surprising. When we looked at the barrel, we couldn't find any obvious bulges, and the bore was clear of any obstructions.
Impossible to determine at this point, but if it had been a squib, wouldn't we expect to see some obvious damage to the barrel?
I agree. It suggests to me that it wasn’t a squib halfway down the barrel, unless it was just deep enough to allow the next cartridge to be chambered.
I also blows my mind that the guy didn’t even keep all the parts in order to help figure out what went wrong.
A lot of people just don’t think that way. Folks like us need to investigate and debrief. We want answers. A lot of folks are just “ well that sucked” and move on.
I think we are less perplexing to them, than they are to us…..
That is true. I’ve always said and seen that ignorance truly is bliss. Those with inquiring minds find that things are usually not just black and white. The more that I know, the more I realize what I don’t know.
It was a savage axis so he was probably going to throw it away after the range session anyway.
The fact of the matter is NOBODY on here knows what actually happened. Naturally, that in no way will hinder the Savage bashers. This is like a high, hanging curve ball for them. GOT to take a swing! Facts, whatever they might be, be damned. It`s rather amusing. Predictable, but amusing nonetheless. Wouldn`t be SH without them!
I can substitute a case full of Bluedot for H4350 and put it in a short action savage i have and use a long string to fire from cover.
Im sure the resulting carnage would look just like the rifle in question in this thread.
Bridged Powder Charge.
First I've heard that term. It's a good one.
Yes, that's why we look at cases in loading blocks under bright lights.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Replace Savage for any other action and you get the same results I would think. I've seen more non-Savage actions blown up than I have Savage but it almost always comes down to the powder.
False.... It was .5 moa all day if you do your part I heard
It’s not that I’m wanna bash savage, I actually love my 112. But the axis is just crude, it doesn’t feed well, the bolt binds. It’s a sloppy mess. I’m not sure why savage wouldn’t refine it to at least the model 10 standards.
I never said anything different, fill a rifle case up with fast burning pistol powder and you have a grenade.
Are some actions better made and more durable with higher quality steel and better tested by intentional destruction testing, sure.
I read somewere on this site i think it was kelbly tested one of thier new actions to 130,000 psi.
I will see if i can dig it up.
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