Rifle Scopes SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

[justin204]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm June 6th if I remember right and I still have nothing. Non-Illum and 1-6x. I emailed SWFA back to see if I could find out what number on the list I am and here's the weird thing:
"For the 5-20 you are very close. Most likely the same is for the 1-6 however we are still waiting on those."

I get and hope I actually am close to the top of the 5-20, but if zero 1-6x have shipped, and there was the other promo's before the combo one, how am I anywhere close to the top of that list? </div></div>

I ordered on June 12th. No scopes, no Seekins rings, not even my damn SWFA hat that was an impulse add to my order!

There was a $250 off promo for the 5-20 scope before the 10k likes was activated, but my guess is not a lot of people jumped on board that one because they were waiting for the 10k likes and 2 scope deal.

I think the numbers has to be put into perspective. I don't think they sold boatloads of scopes so going from #76 to 30 in line isn't so unrealistic.

Does anyone know if they are automatically shipping the scopes as they come in or do you have to positively ask for that?

 

[i29gman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Not sure why people are so enamored with SWFA. I haven't got my scope yet, have never owned one previously but sure do get a bad vibe about their customer service. I'm beginning to wonder if they keep any inventory at all.

 

[Helter]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i29gman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure why people are so enamored with SWFA. I haven't got my scope yet, have never owned one previously but sure do get a bad vibe about their customer service. I'm beginning to wonder if they keep any inventory at all. </div></div>

How would a company keep inventory if orders exceed production?

 

[hotbrass]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Plan ahead. Use their own money. Take a business risk.

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Yup, seems pretty obvious that they are keeping no inventory on these items. They are taking absolutely no risk and their supplier is putting them (and us) absolutely on the bottom of their production queue.

 

[borefodder]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

It's a hot mess with this 1x6. I'm giving them till the end of the week for either a tracking number or a substantive and satisfying update or I will be going to a gun show this weekend and picking something up there and then canceling my 1x6 order. There is no sign that these will be shipped by the end of the year at this point let alone this month. I can wait a while but not forever. Yes they are nice guys at the customer service and all but have to move on at some point if they can't get it done.

 

[Nebraska]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: borefodder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a hot mess with this 1x6. I'm giving them till the end of the week for either a tracking number or a substantive and satisfying update or I will be going to a gun show this weekend and picking something up there and then canceling my 1x6 order. There is no sign that these will be shipped by the end of the year at this point let alone this month. I can wait a while but not forever. Yes they are nice guys at the customer service and all but have to move on at some point if they can't get it done. </div></div>

I was thrilled with my SS 1-4x and thought it was a great match for an AR-15. I sold it in anticipation of this 1-6x because I'm sure the 1-6x will be more of a great thing but, dammit, I GIVE!! No scope and very poor communication isn't worth the price break on this group-buy debacle IMO. I've budgeted this money into my finances and sitting on it month after month is just too frustrating. I'm bailing on this group buy and not looking back for quite awhile. Even if they come tomorrow, I don't want to risk getting a bad one and having to put up with a 6-12 month wait to have it repaired/replaced. Once they come out and establish a quality track record I might pick one up but they've soured me on their service and ability to take care of their customers with this group-buy. A great deal is nice but $$ isn't everything!!

 

[justin204]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

from reading this old thread and seeing the corresponding dates from when that promotion started and when people started posting about their arrivals, i estimate we will see our scopes within the next 15-30 days.

 

[borefodder]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I hear ya. I am a little concerned about the whole 6 month RMA thing too in case I get a bad one which by the sounds of the 5x20's isn't all that uncommon. I was actually going to bail on it last month but I had a busy Sept and due to fall events here, there was only one or 2 gun shows last months so I couldn't make it.

Unfortunately for me all of the shops that sell these types of scopes are over an hour or 2 drive from me. At least for anything beyond your garden variety eotech or acog. I want to see what else all is out there before i decide on another.

 

[33shooter]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I stopped by their shop last week. When I asked about the 1-6x I got the feeling they didn't care about me, and acted as though my question was an inconvenience. I will stick this out, but will likely never buy from SWFA again, especially with a preorder.

I bought this deal to use in this years 3-gun season and hunting season. Hunting season is upon us and the 3-gun season is about done.

 

[dinc]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I ordered the two scope deal on May 24th along with BC flip-ups caps. I got an emaill confirming the order and the backorder status. I got the BC caps in July. CC was charged for the caps and shipping for the whole deal. Got an email that the 5-20 was shipped Sep 28 & the 1-6 was still BO. The CC was charged for the 5-20 only. Got the scope last week. It's nice. I've got faith the 1-6 is coming.

Group buys, deals, other Hide buys, my rule is take the longest that you possibly think it will take to get the goods, then double that. I don't even start worring about it until then. I'm still waiting on an action to be barreled from a group buy that was promised in 6-8 weeks on July 3rd. It hasn't been 4 months yet so I check in monthly but I don't consider it late yet.

 

[The King]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Yeah guys. Don't worry about it. Probably has the same part in it that the SB 1-8 has been hankering for. They will get it sorted soon.

 

[catalyst]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

It is a bit refreshing to know that I am not the only customer with concerns or complaints - especially in regards to being billed full price for the 5-20 (potentially so those combo customers couldn't back out over the $286 remaining charge for the 1-6).

SWFA can claim production issues with the reticle, and that is definitely a VALID claim - I would NEVER dispute that, and I am glad they rectified the build issues. However, as soon as that production issue was recognized to cause a product delay, that information should have poured out via email (NOT THIS SITE!).

I still have other concerns. In the 24 pages of this thread, I might have missed it, but are there before and after photos of the old reticle for the 1-6 vs. the new one? I would like to think this won't happen, but what if we don't like the new reticle compared to the old one? Is it still going to match the reticle on the product page? http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

 

[Mumbles]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I would like to know about the reticle changes too. I asked about that a page or two back, and got nothing but crickets.

I am not upset about the delays. This isn't the first time I've been on the pre-order list for a brand new optic. I am a little irked about the lack of communication.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Yeah, I asked about the reticle change at the end of August back on the bottom of page 20.

"How exactly has the reticle changed? Is the illumination still going to be as good or better than the 1-4 (super bright, daylight-visible high end, nice, dim low end)? Are the subtensions and reticle thickness roughly the same as the pictures that were published? If not, would you mind posting details of the new reticle?"

 

[Tactical22]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

SWFA replied the next day with this:

"Lines do not extend all the way to the edge of the field of view. Illumination is very good and bright. Subtentions are the same. We'll get some images up soon."

 

[mike72]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

And soon = months for them.. lol =)

 

[fireguyty]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I participated in the first SWFA deal, and got a 5-20. I got it at a smoking deal, and am still very impressed with it. It took a long time to get, and was worth it.

I knew this was going to be a similar deal. I knew it would take a long time to get, but it will be an amazing scope at an excellent price. I look at it the same way as when I buy a suppressor and submit a form 4. Pay for it, forget about it, and be stoked when it comes in.

Truth be told, I am taken aback that so many of you didn't see this happening.....again.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Truth be told, I am taken aback that so many of you didn't see this happening.....again. </div></div>

Me too. I figured it would be like this, maybe not as bad, but longer than anticipated for sure.

 

[dogman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I was prepared for a long wait as well, based on observing the previous deals...I think it is getting to the point now where they sold the eggs before they got the chicken.

Also, looking at the general 1-6/8x scopes coming out (Premier, S&B, USO, Vortex) who has really produced something in any quantity...or at all?

CQBSS owns the 1-8x and I have only seen one Vortex 1-6x posted.

 

[oldrifleman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I cancelled my 1-6 from the buy a while back and ended up going to the Leoupold VX-6 1-6X24 with the illuminated German #4. not the best, but it does have great glass and it is a true 1X.

 

[NoFail]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Well we should be over the hump now and heading down hill with the wait.
I'd like to think it's now a matter of weeks instead of months. But even that's painful to think in weeks. But I don't dare think days......

 

[catalyst]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SWFA replied the next day with this:

"Lines do not extend all the way to the edge of the field of view. Illumination is very good and bright. Subtentions are the same. We'll get some images up soon." </div></div>

I read that, as well. They were supposed to get images up soon. I haven't seen them yet, though.

 

[crlutes381]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I got in on the deal the very last day... I know it will be a bit of a wait. My gun isn't here for another 9 months so I have time.

 

[allwheeldriven]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical .22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SWFA replied the next day with this:

"Lines do not extend all the way to the edge of the field of view. Illumination is very good and bright. Subtentions are the same. We'll get some images up soon." </div></div>

Wasn’t that about 2 months ago when they posted the long version of an “oops, we really had no idea we couldn’t actually get someone to produce the 1-6x we had in mind”?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UPDATE

Our initial ETA was early summer and we were hesitant to put that out there because inevitably delays occur.

We missed our first deadline due to complications with the reticle design. We had to switch reticle vendors ……

….We thought we had overcome these problems as our initial reticle supplier assured us that it is not a problem. They kept pushing back the delivery little by little but not enough for us to pass on the news. Finally it became evident that they were not able to produce the reticle as designed and their delays where due to failed attempts………

……. we opted to go with a new vendor …………

…….Every other component is ready and has been ready so once reticles start coming in they will be installed and shipped in small batches…….

we will have them air freighted in, in small quantities as little as 25 units so that we can get them to our customers that are patiently waiting.

……So now we are waiting on the new reticle vendor to provide us with an ETA…..

…..it truly is a case of being a small family owned and operated business that is way under staffed and way over worked……

</div></div>
Edited out the blah, blah, blah smoke up your ass section of their response but yeah. Sounds like a “we offered a pre order deal before we had out shit together” situation.

I’ll keep my preorder for a bit longer just to see how it is if they ever actually ship them but I ordered another scope when they posted the last time.

 

[NoFail]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

If I knew in the first place the wait would be this harsh I don't know if I would have signed up. But now that were here I'm going to stick it out.

There were some other 1-6 offerings coming down the pike at the same time that advertised similar timeline for release dates. One of those has recently been released and it is sold at a significantly higher price point. It looks nice and seems to get good reviews, on this forum anyway. But I still think that this SS 1-6 will be superior, but that is pure speculation solely based on Jon's original review way back in January, almost 10 months ago!!
The delay doesn't bode well for SWFA in a competitive sense, obviously, as some of their competitors with a direct threat to SS 1-6 have already released their versions.

There is one version in particular which just recently released. Looks to be a fine scope and too bad SWFA couldn't be ready for release by that time. But I'm sticking this out, I think the SS 1-6 (after all will finally be said and done) smokes the other one in many ways, not least of which is price even without group buy deal.

I'm glad I'm sticking it out for a better scope at a better price. Now come on SWFA, DON'T PROVE ME WRONG!!! Specs and features are great, I expect quality to be great too..

 

[atomicpunk]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluto77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered a 5-20 on Sept 23. It's not the one with the illuminated reticle. ... I started off as number 76 in line for the 5-20 with no illumination. As of Oct 5 I was number 30 in line. She told me they just had a shipment come in. Based on everything else I've read in different places, it sounds like my scope will be in one of the next 2 deliveries. Seems to be moving relatively quick. </div></div>

I'm not sure how. I ordered 6/2 and have seen neither hide nor hair, and several other people have posted the same. Either they're not properly maintaining the waiting list, or they're blowing smoke.

 

[Rhenerie]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaky Geek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluto77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered a 5-20 on Sept 23. It's not the one with the illuminated reticle. ... I started off as number 76 in line for the 5-20 with no illumination. As of Oct 5 I was number 30 in line. She told me they just had a shipment come in. Based on everything else I've read in different places, it sounds like my scope will be in one of the next 2 deliveries. Seems to be moving relatively quick. </div></div>

I'm not sure how. I ordered 6/2 and have seen neither hide nor hair, and several other people have posted the same. Either they're not properly maintaining the waiting list, or they're blowing smoke.

</div></div>

Im going to have to agree here. It just doesnt seem possible that they've caught up that much and still so many people are waiting. If they truely did provide you that information, and if it is, non factual than I find that more concerning to swfa credibility than this long wait. As others have stated, i dont mind the wait. I would just like swfa to throw a bone every month or soo.

Who can be so over worked they cant post a message to keep customers informed and happy?

 

[Ranger413]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I'm still patiely waiting. But, I'll have to agree with another poster when he said that, basically it was bad form for SWFA to make their update via this forum rather than a more personal email. Sure, that mass email would have taken some time but not everyone who took part in the group buy is reading the hide.

My financial status has taken a turn for the worse since I hit "confirm" for the combo. Not sure I'll stick it out if the wait is much longer. I had intended to put the 5-20X on a precision 308 I'm putting together. The 1-6X doesn't have a solod home. Strongly considering cancelling the combo and going with a fixed 12X.

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rhenerie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who can be so over worked they cant post a message to keep customers informed and happy? </div></div>

^ Have to agree.

It is due to a "seat of the pants" style of business operations. This style resulted in poor vendor choice (perhaps reticle only, perhaps main scope assembly AND reticle), being the last priority with vendors, inability to react quickly, be nimble and make changes as well as an overall lack of willingness to communicate.

This scope (1-6) better knock my socks off...

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

The 5-20x (the replacement, the first one I got not so much) and the 1-4x knocked my socks off.

Well at the price point they did anyhow.

 

[jasonk]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

SWFA is sadly learning the same thing that Vortex did and you all are teaching the lesson. In short, don't talk to the customers, don't ask their opinions, don't give them any sort of expectations because if you don't meet them then you'll be flamed.

Vortex Optics used to literally post here several times a day until the PST scopes went longer than intended on their development and release. Guys here flamed them, overwhelmed them with PMs of questions and bitching, etc. Now they don't ask for opinions on the scopes we want or give ideas on when they might be released. Why, fear of bullshit like this! Same reason why Leupold doesn't post here and a few others I personally know of as well. It's a lose/lose deal for them.

I love the guys throwing stones here, discussing how SWFA does business, critiquing their vendor choices, etc. I'm sure you've all have personal experiences with product development, outsourcing to countries with different native languages in another hemisphere and putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. You guys should really hire yourself out as consultants to SWFA. I'm a business owner, but I'm not in their business, so I keep my mouth shut.

Let's look at the alternative to the long lead time. SWFA releases a scope that's not ready, has reticle issues, etc. Bulk of them are returned, SWFA SS line gets a bad name, no one buys them again and SWFA spends tons of $$$$ trying to return/replace/fix the issues because they released a product that shouldn't have gone out in the first place. Another good family owned American company dies....

Or... Wait a couple extra months, release an awesome scope, everyone's happy and within 2 months everyone has forgotten about the delay being a few months longer than expected. SWFA = Winning!

Don't worry, I've got inside intel that the zombies will not be coming until at least 30 days after the 1-6's are delivered, you'll have plenty of time to get it dialed in and stored away in the safe.

Lastly, if I was as pissed as the handful of bitchers appear, I'd simply cancel my order and move on with life instead of coming back here to whine on a regular basis. But then that wouldn't be the internet, would it?

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the guys throwing stones here, discussing how SWFA does business, critiquing their vendor choices, etc. I'm sure you've all have personal experiences with product development, outsourcing to countries with different native languages in another hemisphere and putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. You guys should really hire yourself out as consultants to SWFA. I'm a business owner, but I'm not in their business, so I keep my mouth shut.</div></div>

Just FYI, I have done engineering, engineering management, product development, vendor selection, sales and marketing all for large intentional companies. I know a thing or two about these endeavors. Obviously I can not speak for anyone else complaining, but I can say any customer is justified in observing terrible customer service and a botched product launch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or... Wait a couple extra months, release an awesome scope, everyone's happy and within 2 months everyone has forgotten about the delay being a few months longer than expected. SWFA = Winning!
...
Lastly, if I was as pissed as the handful of bitchers appear, I'd simply cancel my order and move on with life instead of coming back here to whine on a regular basis. But then that wouldn't be the internet, would it?
</div></div>

I can appreciate this sentiment. However, No one has said they want a bad product really quickly. I feel between a rock and a hard place on this and that stinks as well. There aren't many good options in the market at this price/performance ratio. Let folks vent, SWFA does not need the defenders. They have lost some business over this debacle, however, if the products continue to have their high performance to price ratio the company will do just fine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't worry, I've got inside intel that the zombies will not be coming until at least 30 days after the 1-6's are delivered, you'll have plenty of time to get it dialed in and stored away in the safe.</div></div>

It is pretty huge arrogance and condescension to believe that those that complain only have safe queen firearms and only own firearms for the "zombie apocalypse". Get out there and get busy with your National Security Black Ops mission (with your personally selected and purchased gear...). I'm actually surprised you can post on the internet when under such deep cover.

 

[M4Convert]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SWFA is sadly learning the same thing that Vortex did and you all are teaching the lesson. In short, don't talk to the customers, don't ask their opinions, don't give them any sort of expectations because if you don't meet them then you'll be flamed.

Vortex Optics used to literally post here several times a day until the PST scopes went longer than intended on their development and release. Guys here flamed them, overwhelmed them with PMs of questions and bitching, etc. Now they don't ask for opinions on the scopes we want or give ideas on when they might be released. Why, fear of bullshit like this! Same reason why Leupold doesn't post here and a few others I personally know of as well. It's a lose/lose deal for them.

I love the guys throwing stones here, discussing how SWFA does business, critiquing their vendor choices, etc. I'm sure you've all have personal experiences with product development, outsourcing to countries with different native languages in another hemisphere and putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. You guys should really hire yourself out as consultants to SWFA. I'm a business owner, but I'm not in their business, so I keep my mouth shut.

Let's look at the alternative to the long lead time. SWFA releases a scope that's not ready, has reticle issues, etc. Bulk of them are returned, SWFA SS line gets a bad name, no one buys them again and SWFA spends tons of $$$$ trying to return/replace/fix the issues because they released a product that shouldn't have gone out in the first place. Another good family owned American company dies....

Or... Wait a couple extra months, release an awesome scope, everyone's happy and within 2 months everyone has forgotten about the delay being a few months longer than expected. SWFA = Winning!

Don't worry, I've got inside intel that the zombies will not be coming until at least 30 days after the 1-6's are delivered, you'll have plenty of time to get it dialed in and stored away in the safe.

Lastly, if I was as pissed as the handful of bitchers appear, I'd simply cancel my order and move on with life instead of coming back here to whine on a regular basis. But then that wouldn't be the internet, would it?

</div></div>

I can see the logic in some of your comments, but you *ass*ume many things.

Where do you get the idea of "a couple extra months" and the scope will be "awesome" and everyone will be happy with what ships and forget about the delay being longer than expected ?

I hope your speculation is correct.

Regardless of the outcome on this, lack of communication is just bad customer service - period.

I for one won't order from SWFA again, not because of the wait, but because of the extremely poor customer service exhibited by them on this buy.

In my opinion, the way they have handled this *really* puts forward the thought that they don't care about customers.

I can understand not wanting to come here to get a beat down every day, but not keeping customers informed is in my opinion indicative of lack of concern.

I do indeed have personal experiences with product development, outsourcing to countries with different native languages in another hemisphere and putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.

In every case, when ANY delay or setback occurs, keeping MY customer informed is just good business, not to mention an ethical obligation.

As far as seeking an engagement from SWFA for consulting services, I will agree it appears they do need some help to take care of basic customer service communication duties.

But, that's not something they could really hire out if it isn't an integral part of the way they do business.

They might make a fantastic scope, but the warranty claims taking months, the reticle change (how long does it take to snap a couple of pics ?) and deafening silence just leaves me with the impression they are more concerned with their new building and other things than taking 5 minutes to provide a courtesy update.

I'd rather hear bad news than no news at all, especially after it is clear they are aware of this thread and the buyers here have all shown a great deal of patience and professionalism when receiving ANY news.

In my opinion, they either lack the balls to tell the truth about the situation, or, they have taken the customers in this buy for granted.

 

[Helter]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SWFA is sadly learning the same thing that Vortex did and you all are teaching the lesson. In short, don't talk to the customers, don't ask their opinions, don't give them any sort of expectations because if you don't meet them then you'll be flamed.


</div></div>

This...
The only thing that I can see people having much issue with, is having been shipped a 5-20, mounted it and used it, and now you can't cancel or you bought it at full price.
In retrospect, I'm sure that SWFA wishes they hadn't listened to the customers who asked for their 5-20 to ship ahead of the 1-6. Then they'd have had plenty in stock for RMA's and full price orders, and they could just tell complainers to cancel or wait.
Lesson doubly learned.
Personally I'm glad they shipped my 5-20 ahead of time, I love it and get quite a bit of use out of it. I'm ok with waiting on the 1-6 too, a $600 discount buys quite a bit of goodwill with me.

 

[33shooter]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Jasonk, I understand what you're saying and agree with most of it. However, I was not around for the other deals they had, and took a "summer delivery" as the word of a company with a solid reputation. My contacts with SWFA have been short, and they on both occasions (both in person and on the phone) were handled poorly by SWFA in my opinion, and have lost me as a customer. I will wait for the 1-6x as I am not the type who has lots of money to spend on equipment as I would like. But I will take my future business elsewhere.

On the flip side. If SWFA would have simply kept me in the loop, and gave me updates about the progress, I would have been happy, even though there was a delay.

 

[dfwm]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dfwm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not see the tie in. Why would the sale price be based on a social site that many of us have no interest in?

I would like to support good companies that offer great products but being "forced" to join something like facebook is a negative in my opinion.

Now, I see no issue with offering a discount if XXXX people commit to buy a product and are willing to wait for delivery so the manufacturer can negotiate a good price from suppliers with the knowledge the product will sell. I would be willing to wait 6 months to get this deal.

I am in the market for a good scope and I have heard good things about them so they were high on me list. As it stands now, I am on the fence about dealing with SWFA. I think they F'ed up.

Does anyone know of a group buy on a high end scope anywhere else? Please PM me as I do not want to disrupt this thread and it's intent. </div></div>

</div></div>


Well, I decided to heed the advice of the Scope Nazi and did not order. It was pretty apparent they did not have a product - thus the delays posted here. My estimate of 6 months may have pretty close. A lot closer than SWFA either knew or were willing to share with customers.

Many of you thought their response with "No Scope for You" was funny and it was. It was also very disrespectful of a potential customer. I will spend my money on products that are proven and with people who want my business. The customer service issues some of you are having are not surprising - at least to me.

Now, many will rally to their support. I have worked in engineering, product development, manufacturing, marketing and sales. These guys have a LOT to learn. Regrettably, they are learning at YOUR expense. Hopefully, they will learn and do better next time.

 

[i29gman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SWFA is sadly learning the same thing that Vortex did and you all are teaching the lesson. In short, don't talk to the customers, don't ask their opinions, don't give them any sort of expectations because if you don't meet them then you'll be flamed.

Vortex Optics used to literally post here several times a day until the PST scopes went longer than intended on their development and release. Guys here flamed them, overwhelmed them with PMs of questions and bitching, etc. Now they don't ask for opinions on the scopes we want or give ideas on when they might be released. Why, fear of bullshit like this! Same reason why Leupold doesn't post here and a few others I personally know of as well. It's a lose/lose deal for them.

I love the guys throwing stones here, discussing how SWFA does business, critiquing their vendor choices, etc. I'm sure you've all have personal experiences with product development, outsourcing to countries with different native languages in another hemisphere and putting hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. You guys should really hire yourself out as consultants to SWFA. I'm a business owner, but I'm not in their business, so I keep my mouth shut.

Let's look at the alternative to the long lead time. SWFA releases a scope that's not ready, has reticle issues, etc. Bulk of them are returned, SWFA SS line gets a bad name, no one buys them again and SWFA spends tons of $$$$ trying to return/replace/fix the issues because they released a product that shouldn't have gone out in the first place. Another good family owned American company dies....

Or... Wait a couple extra months, release an awesome scope, everyone's happy and within 2 months everyone has forgotten about the delay being a few months longer than expected. SWFA = Winning!

Don't worry, I've got inside intel that the zombies will not be coming until at least 30 days after the 1-6's are delivered, you'll have plenty of time to get it dialed in and stored away in the safe.

Lastly, if I was as pissed as the handful of bitchers appear, I'd simply cancel my order and move on with life instead of coming back here to whine on a regular basis. But then that wouldn't be the internet, would it?

</div></div> Your perspective falls flat with me. I might actually be more patient and appreciative of SWFA's predicament if they had been straight up honest with me. But, they were not. I was told by someone on their staff that the delay for the 1x6 was the result of an issue with Customs. That now appears to be completely false. Secondly, if I did not come to this forum or personally call SWFA, I would still (after all these months) be in the dark. It comes down to customer service (or lack thereof). I'm not sure why SWFA did not email all potential buyers with accurate updated information. Perhaps they will in another month or two. And, since you know when the zombies are coming, maybe you can enlighten us.

 

[BW88]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Wow. Lots of grief going on with this thread.

I bought the 1-4 and was really impressed with the construction and performance. FFP, weather proof, well lit reticle, CQB/red dot capable, Mil/Mil, solid turrets,...etc. SWFA knocked out a top notch scope--$2000 features on a $800 scope.

I'm waiting for the 1-6 and I expect SWFA to impress me again. I'll wait until they have it right because it will be an incredible value.

The age of instant information and next day delivery has us spoiled and presents challenges for the vendor and consumer alike.

I'm practicing patience and I'm gonna be ok.

 

[elephantrider]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Lastly, if I was as pissed as the handful of bitchers appear, I'd simply cancel my order and move on with life instead of coming back here to whine on a regular basis. But then that wouldn't be the internet, would it?

</div></div>

But, but, but.... I wanted my deeply discounted scope to be here by now!

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Lots of complaints from brand new members. Maybe most of them didn't know that things like this can/do happen with deeply discounted group buys. For the rest of us who knew how these things sometimes go, getting the deals this promotion offered should be worth the wait. I do hate that some folks have had long waits for returns/repairs but I'm sure SWFA learned from how that all went down. I hope they continue to listen to their faithful customers and put out products we ask for. I also hope none of this discourages future deals.

Thanks for not knowingly shipping sub par scopes to us and letting us in on the prices you gave us. Not everyone is pissed and ready to cancel and or not continue to do business with SWFA. Looking forward to laying down some pigs and ringing steel with that 1-6... Whenever it shows.

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I was one of those people with the 6 month RMA... while the wait did suck, the scope is awesome so I'm content. Never once did they not answer my inquiries about my RMA. They were always cordial and helpful.

I seriously doubt SWFA would make the mistake of not having scopes for RMA service again... my guess is when people started asking for the 5-20s in advance instead of how it was originally planned... which was as a combo when the 1-6x came out... it caused a little hardship with the RMAs.

I'm happy to wait for the 1-6x.

Especially if the hold up is to get it done right.

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Anyone tired of waiting I will more than happily take their place for the 1-6 and wait for it.

It's a group buy for a new product, you get it first at a big discount the downside being you have to wait and contend with last minute changes, problems, etc. It's a compromise.

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

A good spectrum of comments and opinions here on this issue. Luckily not everyone feels the same way as that would be either way too favorable for or against SWFA. A common theme is that most of us are excited to get some great glass at a great price. Sure would be nice to have at least a clue when to expect the 1-6s...

 

[propulsionclimbing]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

All you have to do is go to a few matches and see the extent to which SWFA supports the shooting community, and it is quite evident that they are a good company worth supporting.

Not only that, they make an exceptional product that really has no competitors for the price point, especially when you factor in the tremendous promotions they have run for Sniper's Hide members.

These group buys are great opportunities, and although you could argue that they are mutually beneficial, we are still getting a great product at an unprecedented price point. I would encourage everyone who participated in this group buy to excercise a little patience. Also, remember why you got in on this group buy to begin with. If you are like me, it was because you know SWFA is a solid company with great customer service that offers a superb product at a substantial discount to the shooting community.

 

[wcb6092]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I am waiting on this group buy also. I have had a several transactions with SWFA and they have always treated me right. I am glad they are not just throwing junk out there and leaving it up to us to try and figure out. It takes a while to determine a scope is bad. Some companies could care less about quality as long as they are making money. I know the wait is frustrating but I would rather wait and have it right the first time.

 

[NoFail]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I will wait for this 1-6. When that box, with a new SS 1-6x24 HD inside of it, shows up at my door, that will be a exciting time. Trying out the new reticle and illumination will be very fun. Reading your guy's reviews about it will be fun, providing there are no problems. The fact this is going on so long leads me to think quality will be high. I think SWFA will have a winner on there hands.

 

[Jimichanga]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don't worry, I've got inside intel that the zombies will not be coming until at least 30 days after the 1-6's are delivered, you'll have plenty of time to get it dialed in and stored away in the safe.

</div></div>

LOL that was funny.

When do big sales promotions ever go quickly? This will be my 4th SWFA scope, I don't mind waiting for them to get it right. Think of it like a NFA purchase. Pay your money and forget about it. Be happy when it comes.

 

[i_rep]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I have zero doubt that people that say they ordered recently and were given a number in line paid posted web prices and are being bumped to the front of the line.

In no way could someone that was part of the group buy and expect to be put in front of a customer paying full price. Just the way it works. If you want one faster. Then step up and order one at full price and it will show up faster.



It took 6 months for them to ship my 5-20 from the last group purchase. I did not expect any less with this one. I was suprised when they shipped out some of the 5-20 they had in stock early to get them into customers hands. It is too bad that things got backed up and them shipping out 5-20 out made inventory / supply problems for the people that ended up needing an warranty replacement that had long delays to get replacements.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the guys throwing stones here</div></div>
While I have been defending SWFA, I nevertheless feel that better communication would have prevented many of these stones from being thrown in the first place.

A simple update every couple of weeks, even if it's nothing more than <span style="font-style: italic">"the reticle guys are still struggling with this"</span>, would go a long way.