Rifle Scopes Zero Compromise Optic update
- Thread starter gebhardt02
- Start date
If you get a chance, check close focus on both. You mentioned in preliminary testing you though the ZCO might have a bit more depth to the image, I'd be curious once you'd had more time behind both if that stands out as something major or something minor. I really love my K318i but wish it had more FOV, optically though it is pretty stunning especially for how short it is.
I'd love to eventually see ILya get his hands on the ZC420, K318i, S&B US 3-20 for an alpha class ultra short dance fight
Mmmmmm.........donuts. (Have an extra if you can’t find one)
Take my k5-25 as partial
You wouldn’t like the value I gave you for it ??
Take my k5-25 as partial
She gone!
Unless @Mile High Shooting still has one, or @gebhardt02 knows where one is at a retailer.......I believe the first batch of 420’s is gone everywhere.
Then ill trade you my LRR with you 5-27 then
Ship it. I promise you’ll get something in return.
I haven’t had time to get behind the one I’m testing before sending to another member here. But I’m being told these 420 are badass.
I’ll be hands on for a couple hours on Sunday. Try to post thoughts by Monday evening.
I’ll be hands on for a couple hours on Sunday. Try to post thoughts by Monday evening.
That's what scares me! I'll end up selling current optics in PX and picking up more ZCO'S ?
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You won’t be wrong, it really leaves nothing to any other scope on the market. In fact it’s probably better then any scope in its price range and out features the higher priced stuff. The reticle is tits, glass is impeccable, turrets are the best AND THEY LOCK !!! Seriously there isn’t anything better
Oh and the illumination is Christmas colors who doesn’t love Christmas, if they added a strobe light it would be a party starter.
I have a Nightforce and I love it, but man, I HAVE to get a ZCO now.
The first ZCO I will get my hands on is likely the larger 56mm version. Personally, I am more interested in the smaller scope, but the larger one fits the article I am working on better. I just received TT with Gen 3 XR and ZCO should be here in not too distant future. I pinged Steiner for their new 4-28x56, Leupold for the new 7-35x56 Mark 5 and Nightforce for the 7-35x56 with MilXT. S&B promised to loan me the 5-25x56 with the new GR2ID reticle and I know someone who will loan me his ZP5.
I can not take on another major high end comparison until this one is done.
ILya
I'll post the whole thing on my website and then link it here and on my social media. It will take a little time.
ILya
I’ve got a 4-20 zco that will ship Monday. We should arrange a couple days for comparison
Let me know if you need a K525i to add to the list or if the K318i is enough. I don't have any matches for the foreseeable future and pretty much have a backup with the 223 now.
I may take you up on that. Let me get a few more scopes here and I might borrow your K525 for a side by side.
ILya
@gebhardt02, I'm sure you're tired of people asking about production, but do you have any guess when the next batch of scopes might be shipping? Specifically to me the ZC420 w/ MPCT1, but any of them will make several people on here happy. Thanks for interacting with us as much as you do. This level of communication is rare from any company.
I believe the next shipment of ZC527s should happen pretty soon. I don't know a specific date, but soon. Next batch of 4-20s should be right behind that.
Shot a match today with the 4-20 after using a TT all season so far. Will post a review from a prs/comp perspective soon. ZCO has a lot going for it. The 420 is nice
Will be looking forward for your review on the ZC4X20.
Got my zco 420 mounted in MPA mount after finishing up assembly project on rifle. More details on that in another thread coming.
Took it out and got to spend some time behind it at our range with steel out to 1000. I’ve owned and/or shot a lot of scopes here at our range in the last 18 months from gen 2 razor, kahles 624i, s&b 5-25 and 3-27, Tangent 5-25, kahles 318 and the zco 5-27 and now this 4-20. I really can’t find a complaint on either zco right now. Glass is awesome I love that it holds clarity to max power and doesn’t lose that sharpness up there. The FOV is something that I don’t feel like I’m behind a compact scope and only thing I can say is well done there. I went from 380-1000 at mid power and the reticle is very useable in that 8-15 range. You can power down to 8 and still see the subtentions fine which I can’t say the same for all the 5-25 class scopes above. Really like the change of balance it adds too, the gun doesn’t feel top heavy like some of my other setups. Still one of my favorite scopes from initial impression, we will see after a match if I still feel that way.
Took it out and got to spend some time behind it at our range with steel out to 1000. I’ve owned and/or shot a lot of scopes here at our range in the last 18 months from gen 2 razor, kahles 624i, s&b 5-25 and 3-27, Tangent 5-25, kahles 318 and the zco 5-27 and now this 4-20. I really can’t find a complaint on either zco right now. Glass is awesome I love that it holds clarity to max power and doesn’t lose that sharpness up there. The FOV is something that I don’t feel like I’m behind a compact scope and only thing I can say is well done there. I went from 380-1000 at mid power and the reticle is very useable in that 8-15 range. You can power down to 8 and still see the subtentions fine which I can’t say the same for all the 5-25 class scopes above. Really like the change of balance it adds too, the gun doesn’t feel top heavy like some of my other setups. Still one of my favorite scopes from initial impression, we will see after a match if I still feel that way.
I'm also looking forward to the review, even though I'm already leaning towards the ZCO as the next scope. Will the review be here on the forum or another site? Thanks.
After trying both of the ZCO scopes when at the same power ranges are they equal in image quality? For example, when the 420 is maxed at 20x and the 527 is set to 20x. Like you mention, especially on ARs, balance of the smaller scopes is a tiny bit better.
I don’t know that that would be a fair comparison in my mind which is why I haven’t done it. I’ve run the 5-27 against my Schmidt and tangent like that but 4-20 is a different class scope and I can’t see comparing one scope at max against another that is still well below max to see if 20x is equal. It will not be. Reticle at 20x in 5-27 is still on upper end of that mid range so doesn’t have that heavy feel to it yet, while on 4-20 max power the reticle is as heavy as it gets. Compare both at max or 70% and I think they are very comparable, FOV aside its 50 vs 56mm. Both zco make me contemplate selling a TT so that says a lot. Turrets and reticle are subjective as is glass, these are the 3 things that everyone wants to “read another review on” before buying but honestly you’re gonna have to buy one to understand the minute differences in these upper echelon scopes. Zco has to this point not much at all I can complain about. I’ll make it easy.
Glass is as close as I’ve seen to TT I almost like it better (yes I’ve looked through a Minox, no minox isn’t at this level)
Turrets are very nice, think kahles that lock and a ton of adjustment
Reticle I have mpact1 and mpact2 I like them both. For a tree reticle it’s the most open I’ve seen starting 2 mil down.
Features can’t be matched at this price range for turrets glass the illumination, fit and finish. 36mm tube eliminates all tunneling.
Comes in a pretty sexy black box.
Your welcome, go buy one instead of waiting on that one more review and see for yourself
-Not Ilya
Glass is as close as I’ve seen to TT I almost like it better (yes I’ve looked through a Minox, no minox isn’t at this level)
Turrets are very nice, think kahles that lock and a ton of adjustment
Reticle I have mpact1 and mpact2 I like them both. For a tree reticle it’s the most open I’ve seen starting 2 mil down.
Features can’t be matched at this price range for turrets glass the illumination, fit and finish. 36mm tube eliminates all tunneling.
Comes in a pretty sexy black box.
Your welcome, go buy one instead of waiting on that one more review and see for yourself
-Not Ilya
My thoughts as well. When you take all the features of the optic, there’s nothing else in this price point that has them all.
HKDave thought the TT and ZP5 he owns are very close optically in his review, but we often find this to be the case, some like scope X and think it compares favorably to scope Y and others disagree - it makes me wonder how much could be sample variation, how much could be personal preference, how much could be setup error, etc. To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong Gilly, your experience is your experience and it is impressive to hear you think the ZCO is optically better than the ZP5. I believe ILya is going to do a alpha/tier one review of these scopes (5-25 and the like) later this year and I believe the TT, ZCO, Minox ZP5, Schmidt and others are on his list. Would love to see a shootout of the best of the best with the attention to detail that ILya takes great lengths to ensure all is equal.
I don’t put the minox into the same category. A big part of the reason is the lower price. They can be had new for 25-2800.
Unless manufacturers are charging $1k for a name, they have to give up something to the other optics to cut the price that much.
The glass was awesome on the zp5 I owned. But I’d definitely put it a tier down and into the kahles/NF category.
I don't think it's an issue of whether or not it is a "fair" comparison, it could be that SAMR is trying to decided whether or not he (assuming SAMR is a he) should purchase a ZC527 or the ZC420. For example, Schmidt makes the 3-27 scope and a 3-20; however, some shooters opt for the 3-27 because it is better optically in the 20x range than the 3-20 is, but if the ZC420 is just as good in the 15-20x range as the 5-27 then I can see some shooters preferring the shorter, lighter ZC420. I disagree with your assessment that the ZC420 will not be on par with the ZC527 at 20x, while that may be the case, it is not necessarily true, different optical formula's perform differently and it's entirely possible that ZCO has created a scope in the ZC420 that is every bit as capable as its bigger brother at the top end of its range, but we won't know until someone puts them to the test.
I basically look at tier 1 as anything above $2500 but maybe need to change that mindset. I look at it this way, ZP5 is in the $3k range, ZCO in the $3500 range and TT in the $4K+ range, depending on model you can find some TT's cheaper when on sale and some ZP5's cheaper. The reason a lot of folks lump the ZP5 and TT in a similar class is because they share a common design, that being the parent design from Optronika for Premier back in the day, TT inherited that design and made some slight improvements and Minox used Optronika to design the ZP5 line essentially using the same template but also with some minor tweaks. Normally I agree with you DT, but with regard to the ZP5 not being in the same class as Kahles/Nightforce well I'd have to disagree, but will look forward to ILya's review later this year for further verification.
The ZP5 has wild sample variations in glass. I owned 2 and they were nowhere close to each other. The better of the two samples was like Kahles/NF quality as stated above, however everything else on the scope was worse other than FOV compared to the Kahles 525. Nothing even close to a TT which is the best glass I've ever looked through, including ZCO. The ZCO has awesome glass though. I'd compare it to S&B which in my opinion is redic good resolution. It may even be a hair better, but at this level you'll be more limited by your vision probably. I have very good vision and still pretty young eyes and have noticed I can see differences that others cannot.
I agree that minox is not in this category. Good scope for the money but after using TT, ZCO, s&b, and minox I would pick the first three I mentioned over the minox as far as glass. One thing I really noticed with the minox was that I didn’t like it on low light/cloudy days. I feel the minox fits in the mk5 and kahles area.
Far too many minox getting returned for warranty for me put them a tier above their price point.
I even know if one person they actually refunded them the purchase price they had so many problems.
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