I've seen some bad CA in my day, but if that is how it looks through the scope with the naked eye, that is probably the worst I have seen, yikes, let us know how the new one looks when you get it back.
Rifle Scopes New High End Tactical article
- Thread starter koshkin
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I will keep yo all in da loop. Lets see how it goes and how good Steiner really is. As I have owned pst gen II and PM II and havn’t seen such ugly CA.
That looks like a Kahles gen1 K624i, but with better resolution.
And whomever mentioned finding a TT for less than half retail (apple:apples does not equal apples
ranges), could you point me in that general direction?
And whomever mentioned finding a TT for less than half retail (apple:apples does not equal apples
ranges), could you point me in that general direction?
I had to send a new M7xi back as well but to Steiner in the states. I’d be curious to hear how you make out with Steiner Germany.
That is absolutely terrible. I would’ve done the same. Neither of the three M7Xi’s that I have look anything like that and when I do see any CA it’s only above 22x and when my eye is off axis, mainly from bright objects. As long as I’m centered, there is very little to no CA throughout the entire elevation adjustment range. It’s there but I have to induce it to notice it.
I will add that the third M7Xi I picked up has either focus issues or something else may be going on because the overall IQ above 16x is not as impressive as the first pair I bought. It has roughly the same amount of CA as the first pair but the image becomes slightly hazy/out of focus above 16x and certainly does not resolve quite as well. Parallax is easily removed at any distance I’ve checked so far but the target cannot be brought into as clear of focus regardless of diopter/parallax position until I back the power down to 16x or below.
There is a decent deviance between this scope and the first pair regarding where the parallax dial is indexed in relation to the actual distance at which parallax is removed. The problem might only be the calibration of the parallax in this particular scope because everything else is spot on but it has me curious if maybe it’s either a sample variation or if something is actually slightly off with this one. From 4x-16x it does extremely well and is still definitely better than my M5Xi above 16x so I’m not too inclined to contact Steiner over it yet.
I’d say something definitely went wrong in more than just the QC department with that scope of yours. Truly disheartening. I sure hope they see it as a problem and get you fixed up with one that doesn’t make sharp edges look like a neon sign. Anxious to see how Steiner Germany handles it as I would rather have them go through the optic than Steiner USA.
My two are fine, at least to my eyes. That being said, when I looked at the first pic. I thought "wow, that really sucks..." after studying it further I also thought: " while that might suck, when I look at POA and evaluate the resolution (which appears to be as excellent as my two examples) is there really anything going on here that would cause me to miss a shot....?
"Ooooh, that's a pretty shade of purple... crap, I missed the shot" Seriously, while on the surface CA should not cause you to miss a shot, but depending on your target and your background it will rob the image especially with micro-contrast. In the image above it's hard to distinguish the actual edges because CA is causing distortion at the edge, while CA is most apparent at the edges it still exists elsewhere and can cause a softness to the overall image in say a scene with a lot of rocks or vegetation. Also, it can play an even bigger factor in low light scenarios. So while it may not cause you to miss a shot, it does have an overall effect on the quality of the image you see. I can accept a level of CA in a $1500 scope, but above $2k I have much higher expectations and one of those is that the mfr eliminates CA and other aberrations much better. That being said, this scope certainly seems to be waaaay outside the norm so it will be interesting to see what Steiner does, my guess is they may replace the entire scope and the new scope that summataja receives I expect to do much better.
Seriously, while on the surface CA should not cause you to miss a shot, but depending on your target and your background it will rob the image especially with micro-contrast. In the image above it's hard to distinguish the actual edges because CA is causing distortion at the edge, while CA is most apparent at the edges it still exists elsewhere and can cause a softness to the overall image in say a scene with a lot of rocks or vegetation. Also, it can play an even bigger factor in low light scenarios. So while it may not cause you to miss a shot, it does have an overall effect on the quality of the image you see. I can accept a level of CA in a $1500 scope, but above $2k I have much higher expectations and one of those is that the mfr eliminates CA and other aberrations much better. That being said, this scope certainly seems to be waaaay outside the norm so it will be interesting to see what Steiner does, my guess is they may replace the entire scope and the new scope that summataja receives I expect to do much better.
If it’s anything like the sample I saw at SHOT 19, it’ll make March a household name.
Keep in mind that when taking images through a scope you are compounding CA with your camera's lens as well, and if that lens doesn't control CA it's going to look worse than with the naked eye. That being said, for a through the scope image, that is some of the worst I've seen. I am sure Steiner will take care of the poster, they are a good company and have been pretty responsive to fixing issues through their warranty.
I think this is an improvement over what they had at SHOT, but I could be wrong. They have a couple of prototypes floating around and I think the one I am looking at is the newer version.
So far, I find it extremely promising.
ILya
I have heard the High Master glass is a 3 layer objective sandwhich with a proprietary lens in between two super ED elements. What all that mumbo jumbo means is that the glass is suppose to be superb in color, contrast, resolution and control of CA. I am anxious to see how well it compares to some of the best glass out like my ZP5 and ZCO (Edit - not my ZCO as I don't own one yet, but a friend does).
It’s just a matter of time and you know it! Lol
My life is settling down again, so I am back to testing scopes.
5-42x56 March has exceptional CA control and overall contrast is a step forward. Resolution had always been good on March scopes and this one is no exception.
ILya
I'll be releasing information as I go along, initially in a series of YouTube/Gunstreamer videos and then in a more structured written form. If you have specific questions, ask any time or as the videos come out.
ILya
Thi
This will be an interesting test, lots of competition in this market segment now. Hopefully can get a XTR3 in there too.
Will you be comparing these to a known quantity? Say a Vortex PST 3-15 or Razor 3-18?
This will be an interesting test, lots of competition in this market segment now. Hopefully can get a XTR3 in there too.
Will you be comparing these to a known quantity? Say a Vortex PST 3-15 or Razor 3-18?
I will take the 4-16x ATACR over the NX8 any day. I tested the 4-16x42 and really liked it. The NX8 is not my cup of tea.
ILya
Wish list for SHOT 2020:
- Schmidt PM III with illumination off the parallax and new Christmas Tree reticle (MR4, Gen 3 XR style)
- March 5-42 Highmaster (I know it was at SHOT 2019 but that reticle was not my cup of tea), glass is supposed to be amazing.
- ZCO MPCT3 reticle (basically the MPCT2 but with dots instead of solid lines in the Christmas Tree)
- Minox ZP5 4-20x58 (GSO designed the ZP5 and they designed the Blaser 4-20x58, and Blaser and Minox seem to be connected so hoping the design will carry over into the ZP5 line with the Minox turrets and MR4 reticle)
- Vortex AMG with 5x magnfication range, ideally a 4-20x50 under 30oz
- Vortex HD or UHD with 5000 LRF unit (the Fury is a great start but give us better glass to compete with the big 3) oh and bluetooth to connect with Kestrel et al
- A true Nightforce Ultra Short, not the NX8 with uber erector, but keep it to 5 or 6x with ATACR glass, a 4-20 or 3.5-21x50 would be really nice
If even a few of those wants became real a lot of wallets around here would be in serious danger...
I am not at all convinced we will see a tactical/precision oriented version of the Blaser 4-20x58, but I would certainly like to. Same for their 2.8-20x50. If you look at these two scopes, you will notice how much shorter the erector portion of the tube is in the 4-20x58 and how much longer the objective system is. That allowed Blaser to extract really impressive image quality out of a fairy short overall design.
ILya
I have the AMG and I compared it extensively to ZCO 4-20x50 and TT315M, along others.
ILya
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I was just trying to figure out how to help you get your hands on an XTR3 and get in the mix. But looking at the calendar, between the club Championship this month, NRL 22, Vibbert's PRS match, the PRS National Championship, and the PRS Regional Championship, I'll be shooting a match 5 weekends out of the next 7.
We gotta find someone to give up their new scope for a week.
We'll see how it goes.
Given the limited supply, I am not pushing for it. Burris has orders to fill.
I am tracking how it does in the field to see if there are any complaints. I want to see the illuminated version anyway, so I might wait.
ILya
I all not testing it. I am testing 3-24x52. The 2.5-25x42 happened to be in hand, so I used for size comparison.
ILya
ILya,
Thanks for your video. If the S&B ultra short’s were thrown into the mix where would they sit in that line up?
Thanks for your video. If the S&B ultra short’s were thrown into the mix where would they sit in that line up?
Thank you for the video. I was actually planning on selling the March for the NX8 when the Mil-xt came out. Then I got behind one and wasn’t impressed. I thought it may have just been that scope so I didn’t write it off completely. But your impressions match mine so I don’t think it was just an anomaly with the one I looked behind.
The Vudu looks very interesting though.
The Vudu looks very interesting though.
Talked a friend into the vudu. I’m going to compare it to my Steiner T5xi 5-25. Same mag range, same price range, so we will see what we lose by making the scope so short.
I just watched Koshkin's High End Tactical video, good stuff!
Here's the YouTube link for folks late to the thread.
Here's the YouTube link for folks late to the thread.
For those who are Mil/LE DSG Arm's has a killer deal on the M7Xi's in both black and Coyote (but the best deal is on the Coyote)
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I usually only promote Hide dealers, but I have yet to see one who can match DSG's pricing, just wanting to share for those who might be interested in this scope. One final thought, most Hide dealers will "price match" if you can show what another dealer is offering so it doesn't hurt to contact them and see...
For those who are not Mil/LE please do not contact me asking how much; however, I do encourage you to contact a Hide Dealer and ask them what's the best they can do for you, I've found more often than not that the Hide Dealers can match and sometimes beat Mil/LE pricing so it's worth asking.
Got mine for $2399 at DSG. Went with the black, I didn’t like the yellowish tone of the Coyote.
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That was the best price I saw anywhere and was so tempted to grab that scope, but alas the reviews of heavy CA and finicky DOF kept me hesitant...
Well, like people have stated the CA is similar to the k525, in my case I Barely notice it like I can on my ERS even on really sunny days. When it comes to DOF I really haven’t noticed.
Unfortunately DSG no longer has that deal, they are back up near $3k.
If I recall, ILya said CA was pretty bad with the M7Xi for the price, I'm going off that as well as a local friend who had one and was not impressed compared to Schmidt and Minox ZP5. At some point I'm going to have to try and test one out to see for myself, I really like the FOV and mag range, the MSR2 is decent but not my favorite.
When you do please post here, I’d like to know what you think of it. In my case, I’ve never been able to pick up CA like others can except on the ERS which is overkill.
A lot depends on the types of conditions you shoot in, there are a lot of shooters who would agree with you - they just don't pickup CA like others do. I always try to tell shooters, if you don't detect CA don't go looking for it
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