For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over
- Thread starter want2learn
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I haven’t shot an AI. My ifirst real target rifle was an MPA with the WTO switch lug. I can change from 6mm creedmoor to anything below or up to 308. The second barrel is a 6.5. i figured I would spen the money on a good scope and ended up with the NF Atacr 5x25. still have a great deal to learn behind the trigger, but I don’t feel like I am missing much.
My old inferior low class mk3....
Can't figure out which load to use.
If you have that kind of spare cash to spend, and/or you are that passionate about shooting, then go for the big price tag. Personally, I always try to justify my gun purchase by whether or not the gun fulfills all my requirements. Price is secondary. If the 2.5K gun fills the bill, then that's the one I buy. After all, it's what YOU can do with the gun downrange that counts. Fancy paint and lipstick doesn't make the groups any tighter.
And, the gun doesn't make the shooter. When I was a kid, I was big into trap and skeet. I won my first adult trap tournament with a 128 dollar shotgun - much to the dismay of some of the other shooters who were sporting 2400 dollar shotguns. I also set the club youth record at the time by breaking 562 straight with a .410 that cost 50 dollars.
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If you have to ask .... the answer is no...
But don't be surprised if you sell off you 3 or 4 rifles in different calibers just to buy 1 AI with 3 or 4 barrels in about 6 or 7 years lol
But don't be surprised if you sell off you 3 or 4 rifles in different calibers just to buy 1 AI with 3 or 4 barrels in about 6 or 7 years lol
I went the switch barrel route but found I like dedicated rifles for a cartridge better.
Someday I’d like to upgrade my 260 to one of the older AI’s and dump my savage for a savage loss.
The new ones really don’t give me a boner like the older ones do.
The new ones really don’t give me a boner like the older ones do.
AIs don't really appeal to me. Not sure why. I'd rather just build my own custom, which I've done twice now and completely happy with them. Currently looking at either MPA or KRG chassis build. Application is important, I have no use for a switch barrel or a super durable tank of a rifle like the AIs supposedly are.
Understandable. I used to think kinda the same way. A decade ago I didn't see what the big deal was with an ai, my rebarreled savages and rem shot just as good....Then I got an ai, once you run the bolt and shoot it, it all makes sense. Bolt feels like a vault door closing, ae trigger feels perfect, stock fits me perfect, and rifle just feels locked in. More so than the w3, mpa, and various manners I've owned.
They are built like a tank, not supposedly. I can only remember 2 or 3 threads on here of ai deficiencies in the time I've been here.
Are the ergonomics of the AI AX rifle vastly different than those of a Remington 700 in an AICS AX chassis in terms of scope height and overall length of pull? Just curious because I’d be buying one (an AX) without Actually getting behind one but have plenty of time with the AICS AX chassis
I like the older AI of my youth, not so much the newer. Generally, their weight and stock design are not something that appeals to me. The barrel setup is super sweet, but it’s not enough to get me into one. I’m sure I don’t know what I’m missing, but the desire to find out just isn’t there.
AI's are real nice if you don't have to Hump them. Try being a pack mule to the party an see how it works out in reality.
As stated, you’re comparing different classes of rifle as a $7k AI is going to be the MC/ASR area. If that’s what you truly want to compare, if you are going to utilize the full range of bolts and such with the AI, it’s cheaper to buy the AI than 3-4 or more setups. If you won’t, it’s not worth it.
Comparing the $4k AT, it all depends. Most importantly if it fits you ergonomically.
I believe the AT is the absolute best entry level rifle on the market (if you’re already willing to spend that type of cash).
It feeds without issue, isn’t too heavy or light so you learn proper recoil management, and trigger isn’t too heavy or too light so you learn proper trigger control.
Comparing the $4k AT, it all depends. Most importantly if it fits you ergonomically.
I believe the AT is the absolute best entry level rifle on the market (if you’re already willing to spend that type of cash).
It feeds without issue, isn’t too heavy or light so you learn proper recoil management, and trigger isn’t too heavy or too light so you learn proper trigger control.
Yes its heavier than a mountain hunting rifle and a m40. Whats a m40a4-m40a6 weigh? Whats a purpose driven comp rifle weigh? My mk2 with glass, bipod, and mag is 16lbs. Flyweight it ain't, but point out any contemporary precision/sniper rifle that is appreciably lighter
I get this, not the cheapest, but I understand. I had 2 mk3 and got an at. The switch barrel is neat, but I never really utilized it to make it worthwhile to me. I did notice bolt lift was not as light/smooth as my mk3's. Granted I only had 600rds in the at, and a bunch of dry fires, compared to a mk3 with 1800 rds/shit ton of dry fires and mk3 with maybe 300rds( bought that way in spring of 19). Also, the trigger on the at wasnt as good as the ae. It was heavier, but the real gripe was break. Sometimes it was crisp break after wall, but sometimes it was gritty and sometimes the wall was weak and it'd break earlier. At was new from euro, no one monkey'd with trigger. I traded the at for a brand new prs1/impact/triggertech/stutteville 6.5creed and some cash. I'll stick with my old inferior mk2/mk3 that feel slicker to me.
One thing to keep in mind is not everyone comes from the same world. People these days seem to think an hawk heavy is better based upon group size., at XXXX distance. I can assure you,... if you ever have to hump a heavy scoped rifle on foot everywhere for 3 days or much, much longer you will rethink that.
An m24 weighed about 15lbs with a mk4 on it.
M40’s are 15-16.5lbs depend on variant.
An AT is 17.5lbs scoped with optics over 30oz.
An AX is about 1lb heavier than an AT.
The carry weight is very similar unless you start throwing mtu and straight taper barrels on them.
M40’s are 15-16.5lbs depend on variant.
An AT is 17.5lbs scoped with optics over 30oz.
An AX is about 1lb heavier than an AT.
The carry weight is very similar unless you start throwing mtu and straight taper barrels on them.
I think the M40A1 was 15-16 pounds. The M40A3 was 18-19. The A4 stock with sniper fill, Ross metal and scope rings added poundage!
To me weight does not add that much stand off distance. Then again depending chambering, stand off can be increased if for only for the first 3-5 shots. Much depends upon the venue an A/O,..but blankly saying extra weight is required to complete the task at hand does not hold water. Would you rather carry a 17lb 308 or a 9.5lb 338LM that will place the first 3-5 shots where they are supposed to be?
If you’re mil/le, except in special units and sometimes even then, you don’t get the choice anyway.
As a civilian hunter or what not, it’s all situationally dependent. Is it a 500yd walk to a blind, or a 3 day trek in the mountains.
As a civilian hunter or what not, it’s all situationally dependent. Is it a 500yd walk to a blind, or a 3 day trek in the mountains.
Yes and yes to all the above. As I said, the ae, at, & ax aren't any heavier than contemporary sniper rifles or match rifles. No one said they want to carry an ai sheep hunting, or that its better for that. Op specifically asked on mpa comp rifle vs ai, someone else veered this to ai are too heavy. All I'm saying is ai isn't any heavier, in fact lighter, than near peer sniper rifle platforms and prs dedicated match rigs.
Considering that for me, an important survival plan HAS to be how to walk my way home 50 to 60 miles on foot (maybe I get to pull a cart, maybe a bicycle, but maybe not if things are a bit to hostile), I'm in a bit of a never ending search for wanting some effective and long reaching firearm, but also needing to be able to carry it and possibly hide it when you don't want to look threatening.
Interestingly enough, I have an AI AW in .308 and an AI AWSM in .338LM
Fully kitted out, they are around 1 pound difference.
Ammunition weight is a big factor if you want to carry a lot of ammo between the two however.
That being said, I'm not sure I'd really want to hike any of them on a multi day event over carrying something in the 5 to 10 pound range.
I don't carry them in the vehicle with me daily because if something goes down, I'm not going to be able to hump them and everything else (including water) I need to get home, so I'd have to leave them.
If I was doing something where I had to cover several bases, for the weight, I'd probably take the .338LM one with some ammo and then carry my ultra light sub 6 pound AR-15 with a bunch of ammo for anything I could get with that and then save the .338LM for what I brought it for.
Either way humping a heavy gun is not going to be all that fun, my guess is the walk around, hike around rifles might be something a lot lighter and then save the 20 pound guns for if you need to take them somewhere for a specific purpose.
If you don't have to walk, well things are a lot easier.
One of my shooting buds has an AT, and I thought it was a pretty lack luster trigger, to be honest. Gritty as you mentioned, with a lot of creep. No tinkering, OEM setup from the UK AI factory.
AI's used to be "too heavy" for matches and all of a sudden in 2019 they became "too light"
Sometimes all that is needed is a slight adjustment of the sear screw. My AX had some creep, especially compared to my AT. 1/4 turn of the sear screw fixed it.
I tried an ai comp trigger, but I couldn't get 2nd stage any heavier than 8oz. I have my ae's at 1.25-1.5 1st stage and 1-1.25lb 2nd stage. I ended up adjusting the sear engagement screw on factory at about 1/4-1/2turn and got it crisper and consistent break after the wall. That screw is hidden and there is not alot of adjustment to do.
Heavy is subjective when it comes to rifles. A 20# sniper rifle might feel heavy to the average user but it might not even register for a sniper. Dudes claim a 16# MC is too heavy for a match yet competitors are strapping weights to rifles so their 6mm weighs over 20#.AI's used to be "too heavy" for matches and all of a sudden in 2019 they became "too light"
Weight doesn’t mean shit to those that know what weight feels like. People want to bitch about hunting with 15# rifles yet people ruck 35# rifles everyday when out hunting. Always use the right tool for the job.
Weight doesn’t mean shit unless you are unable to move it. It’s a constant thread on here about PRS and weight, especially those that say an MC is too heavy for PRS...yet rifles are being touted at 20#+.
Get what fits your needs. If you can’t pick it up and carry it across the ground you need to cover, then buy something else.
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I have owned an AT, AXSA and AXMC. I've owned Surgeons, Defiances, Bighorns and Impacts.
I know I'm probably in the minorty but I prefer my customs. When I sold my AXMC, which at the time was my grail rifle, I thought I'd miss it. I don't. Not one bit.
So far both of my Impacts have been considerably more reliable. I rarely used the quick change barrel system and it doesn't take me much time or effort to change my barrel out on the Impacts. Originally prefits were a big draw for both but now I have a preferred smith so that's become a moot point.
I'm just one guy that shoots a handful of matches a year. Everyone has their experiences and preferences. I personally don't think the AI is worth the uptick in prices considering the limited option for personalizing them to fit your ergos.
I know I'm probably in the minorty but I prefer my customs. When I sold my AXMC, which at the time was my grail rifle, I thought I'd miss it. I don't. Not one bit.
So far both of my Impacts have been considerably more reliable. I rarely used the quick change barrel system and it doesn't take me much time or effort to change my barrel out on the Impacts. Originally prefits were a big draw for both but now I have a preferred smith so that's become a moot point.
I'm just one guy that shoots a handful of matches a year. Everyone has their experiences and preferences. I personally don't think the AI is worth the uptick in prices considering the limited option for personalizing them to fit your ergos.
@want2learn I quote "For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over a $2.5KMPA or similar rifle? " My question is if you have had "experienced" shooting both the MPA and AI? If you do then you should be able to judge for yourself the intricacies of each rifles. I was in similar situation as you, and after shooting both set ups, I could discern the experiences of both rifles. Given that both rifles are very accurate and shoot light out, you should be able to judge for yourself which system will give you the most FUN experience!
To be fair, your issues were abnormal, and likely related specifically to the short action mags and adapter. I don’t remember if you did anything to try to remedy it, but a new adapter and/or mags may have solved it.
Also, the AXMC is clearly not a purpose built PRS rifle, so comparing it to an Impact in a Foundation or ACC is obviously going to be imbalanced. For someone with a desire for a “one rifle to do EVERYTHING” and AXMC isn’t a bad setup. But if PRS is 95% and ELR or hunting is 5%, it starts making less and less sense.
I'm sure mine was abnormal. But 3 different AX mags and 2 AWs had issues feeding. I guess I expected better from a $7k rifle. I'm not saying I wouldn't consider an AI. But if I did it again, I'd stick with an AT.
I got to shoot an AX today.
It fed pretty Damn nice.
Certainly a nice rifle but my custom build is as well.
It fed pretty Damn nice.
Certainly a nice rifle but my custom build is as well.
First,
figure out what you want to do with it and go from there.
Bench shooting, F class, PRS style matches, plinking around, Hunting etc.
How far you’re going to be carrying it. How far you want to reach out
etc, then research.
Bought an AXSA, spent a bunch of money on some custom barrels for it etc. Finally got it,
didn’t care for the ergos or the trigger. Sold the AX with everything except for my barrels.
picked up a nice used AT in the px for 3K with a low round count 308. Trigger is better. And I like the ergos better, can still use my other barrels and put quite a bit back in the account. Win win.
I know some love the AXs, but unless you’re going AXMC and shooting LA calibers, its kinda hard to justify he added expense of a AX over an AT. Find out someone shooting one in your area and go try it out. You might not like it. Then buy or build. My favorite factory rifle was my TRG22 back in the day, but it’s not that easy to change barrels Or ergos. My fav custom overall so far is a lightweight Manners PRS1/Proof CF/Mac Bro’s Ti. But my favorite action by far is my AI. Throwing the bolt on that is better than every factory, blueprinted, or custom action I’ve ever had IMHO.
So I’ve gotta try a MPA chassis on the AT with a Proof CF spun up for it. That may be the perfect one for me. So make the effort to get out and try as many as you can prior to dropping all the coin,
and research like you’re doing and maybe you can be the one that can do what so many of us has failed to do. Find the near perfect rifle that fits your needs the first time. Without going through 20 rifles to finally figure out your needs have changed and you’re back to square one.
figure out what you want to do with it and go from there.
Bench shooting, F class, PRS style matches, plinking around, Hunting etc.
How far you’re going to be carrying it. How far you want to reach out
etc, then research.
Bought an AXSA, spent a bunch of money on some custom barrels for it etc. Finally got it,
didn’t care for the ergos or the trigger. Sold the AX with everything except for my barrels.
picked up a nice used AT in the px for 3K with a low round count 308. Trigger is better. And I like the ergos better, can still use my other barrels and put quite a bit back in the account. Win win.
I know some love the AXs, but unless you’re going AXMC and shooting LA calibers, its kinda hard to justify he added expense of a AX over an AT. Find out someone shooting one in your area and go try it out. You might not like it. Then buy or build. My favorite factory rifle was my TRG22 back in the day, but it’s not that easy to change barrels Or ergos. My fav custom overall so far is a lightweight Manners PRS1/Proof CF/Mac Bro’s Ti. But my favorite action by far is my AI. Throwing the bolt on that is better than every factory, blueprinted, or custom action I’ve ever had IMHO.
So I’ve gotta try a MPA chassis on the AT with a Proof CF spun up for it. That may be the perfect one for me. So make the effort to get out and try as many as you can prior to dropping all the coin,
and research like you’re doing and maybe you can be the one that can do what so many of us has failed to do. Find the near perfect rifle that fits your needs the first time. Without going through 20 rifles to finally figure out your needs have changed and you’re back to square one.
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Well as an example, what would an AI do for me (besides switch barrel) that my current favorite rifle doesn't?
Defiance Deviant Tactical action (flawlessly accepts both AICS and AW mags and I've never had a failure to feed or eject)
McMillan A5-Adjustable stock with KMW Loggerhead hardware
Surgeon DBM
Bartlein barrel
Jewell trigger (or whatever trigger user prefers)
Maybe ergonomics? Folding stock? Is the AI gonna be more accurate? More durable? Lighters? I dunno...
Idk, sounds nice. I picked up a used deviant on here. It had a left lug that was peened from bolt stop, ai won't have that. It would also bind just slightly when id push bolt forward, my ai's don't do that.
It’s going to do nothing for you. That’s the whole point of the thread. If you want an AI for what it offers than get one. If a custom fits your style of shooting better get that.
There’s a ton of guns that can compete with the AI in terms of accuracy. There’s some that compete with it in reliability and ease of caliber switch.
I own an AIAT and love it. I own a Savage 110 and love it. I own a full custom and love it. I will never sell the savage or AI. Both are easy 1/2 MOA guns. One is built like a tank and one functions very reliably for MY needs.
If you can set up a custom to exactly what you want than get that. If the AI is what you want than get that. Getting a chance to shoot both will let you know what you prefer.
There is no cut and dry, one size fits all answer. Many of us own both.
I have a deep lust for a MKII/III or AIAT in 308; it’ll happen one day; I just have to get behind one to fully cement investing that type of money. For now, I’ll stick to my FN being built to hold me over.
My blueprinted FN SPR is my second favorite action that I own next to the AI in feel. CRF has never caused me a single issue, and the trigger is perfect. And with the Brougton that’s on it, it is easily the most accurate I own now
or ever have. Think long and hard before selling your FN. I shoot this one more than any other rifle i own.
The price difference is easily equal to 2-3000 rounds of ammo (caliber dependent, obviously), or the cost of some good training. Just a thought.
I see we're still comparing axmc prices to mpa, lol.
Based on the prices OP quoted, and because he hasn’t stated he was altering those numbers even after several posts about ATs, it seemed appropriate.
He seems to be keen on making the comparison, and member are dutifully informing him of what the extra cash gets him in capability. It is completely legitimate to compare things in different price ranges.
i've not had the privilege of shooting a sample of nice rifles as of yet....perhaps when the ranges reopen there might be an opportunity.
Just trying to gain some practical insight on what one gains or lacks with respect to these platform subsets.
very grateful for all the information. not trying to stir any pots. not sure how better to gain this information aside from asking.
Just trying to gain some practical insight on what one gains or lacks with respect to these platform subsets.
very grateful for all the information. not trying to stir any pots. not sure how better to gain this information aside from asking.
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Laughing,...
No matter if she is a high priced multi talented hooker, cheap slut, or you have just a hand full of vaseline, all used,.... properly,... the end result is the same.
Just had to,...I'll go stand in the corner now,....
No matter if she is a high priced multi talented hooker, cheap slut, or you have just a hand full of vaseline, all used,.... properly,... the end result is the same.
Just had to,...I'll go stand in the corner now,....
