Was "House Hunting" ever an enjoyable experience?

LuckyDuck · Jun 23, 2024

For the sake of my own sanity- I have to ask the question- has this ever been "fun" for folks that went through this the 1st time? My bride and I continue to look at houses and as an example- last weekend, 3 of the 4 we had scheduled... the previous Thursday if I remember correctly got canceled because they went under contract (sight unseen/no contingencies) before we could even view them. Previously we've looked at houses and offers were already in by the time we looked at the next house on the same day. It's maddening (although they seem to go for asking price and the 'bidding wars' have died down).

I've got a level head on my shoulders but gosh dang if this isn't frustrating and it's taking a lot out of me. I love my wife but I'm letting the frustration bleed through in the process as well admittedly. I'm stressed out about the initial cost, the lot/drainage of the lot, foundation issues, roof/appliance conditions, utilities, taxes etc- and while we're touring houses and I'm looking to do a deep dive into these concerns my cohort is making comments about colors, cabinets, pantries, closet space, windows, etc. I knew what I was marrying into and it wouldn't be fair to place the blame on my wife, I know it's just a super frustrating process (for me at least) and I have no complaints about our real estate agent but dang, if this whole process isn't a giant "bag of dicks" but my question is- was it always this way or am I "chasing skirts" for home ownership? Has anyone else experienced the same "conflict of concerns/importance" with their spouse? Have you ever toured a house and understood the "cost of ownership" but worried about the Diderot Effect?

-LD

moaorbust · Jun 23, 2024

No. It sucks every time. You need to focus on the reason you are willing to suffer through it. I have a home inspection report 81 items long and have spent over a month non-stop fixing things. What is my reason to deal with it? I finally escaped California.

PM me if you need to vent.

mi650 · Jun 23, 2024

We've only had 2.

The 1st one, we looked at 3. She wanted to buy the 1st house we looked at as soon as we left. I made her look at 2 others, then we went back and made an offer on the 1st one.

This one we built ourselves, with a lot of help from family. I spent a few weekends driving around northern MI looking at land before buying this. 3 years later, we started building the house.

jbuck88 · Jun 23, 2024

Nope. We tried a couple times. Then bought land and built. Still a huge pita, but better out self induced mistakes then someone else's.

hafejd30 · Jun 23, 2024

mi650 said:
We've only had 2.

The 1st one, we looked at 3. She wanted to buy the 1st house we looked at as soon as we left. I made her look at 2 others, then we went back and made an offer on the 1st one.

This one we built ourselves, with a lot of help from family. I spent a few weekends driving around northern MI looking at land before buying this. 3 years later, we started building the house.

What part of northern MI? I’m a Yooper

hafejd30 · Jun 23, 2024

The thing about your first house (I’ve been in mine 7 years) is it makes you realize what you need and don’t need or want in your forever home. There’s stuff you think is priority. Then you start living and realize your priorities shift to things like land, heat, water, electric etc. Or simply more space needed for a family

I wouldn’t stress myself over my first house. Buy one that allows you to afford your forever house later

LuckyDuck · Jun 23, 2024

moaorbust said:
No. It sucks every time. You need to focus on the reason you are willing to suffer through it. I have a home inspection report 81 items long and have spent over a month non-stop fixing things. What is my reason to deal with it? I finally escaped California.

PM me if you need to vent.

Appreciate you weighing in- I'm going crazy.

I thought I could escape this nonsense by looking to do a new build and "EVERYTHING" is an upgrade. Basic stuff too like-

-Oh, you want a garage door opener, well the build price only includes the garage door, the opener is another expense
-Oh you want a sump pump- well we only provide the well, you have to pay for the actual pump
-Oh, you want a radon system, well we only provide the pipes, either you pay extra to complete the system or you do that on your own afterwards (including the fan and drilling out of the house itself)
-Oh, you don't think there's enough outlets, we can add those... for $80 per outlet (despite them running along the same wall)
-Oh, you want to add insulation to interior walls- we can do that at a flat cost of several hundred dollars per room (like they're saving us money by that approach) when I point out the exterior walls SHOULD already be insulated and the 'flat cost' only amounts to ONE wall in a particular room and maybe a 6" section on the hallway- I get "well that's how it is".

Oy, I'm admittedly beyond frustrated and already ranting. Thanks again for chiming in- I might take you up on your offer to send a PM to vent/rant some more. Thanks for listening to me at least. I just thought this was 'supposed' to be fun after a decade of preparing to get us to this point but this has been nothing but a soul crushing experience thus far.

-LD

JJMoody · Jun 23, 2024

TLDR- No. House hunting has never been enjoyable. Ever. Not even “This one time”. Building is almost as enjoyable.

45-90 · Jun 23, 2024

Totally enjoyable....I got to spend some alone time, with a pretty woman, without the wife ....at the time.

JJMoody · Jun 23, 2024

Also- one tactic I’ve seen many times is to get a house under contract sight unseen, run the due diligence and back out if they don’t like it.

LuckyDuck · Jun 23, 2024

45-90 said:
Totally enjoyable....I got to spend some alone time, with a pretty woman, without the wife ....at the time.

The realtor I presume?

-LD

Short-bus · Jun 23, 2024

Can't say it was ever that fun. The wife and I got our first house 21 years ago. We felt so fortunate to get approved for a loan at the then bargain rate of 6.5%. The nice thing, back then it was a buyers market, houses weren't selling very fast. The house we bought had been on the market for months. It was a good starter home. Our next house wasn't that fun to shop for. We were both being a lot more choosey this time. We both had requirements that we weren't really going to compromise away from, so we looked at a lot of homes.

I will say i'm glad we're happy with where we are at the moment. I would HATE it if I had to buy a new house with the rates, and the sellers market we have.

Branden

LuckyDuck · Jun 23, 2024

Short-bus said:
Can't say it was ever that fun. The wife and I got our first house 21 years ago. We felt so fortunate to get approved for a loan at the then bargain rate of 6.5%. The nice thing, back then it was a buyers market, houses weren't selling very fast. The house we bought had been on the market for months. It was a good starter home. Our next house wasn't that fun to shop for. We were both being a lot more choosey this time. We both had requirements that we weren't really going to compromise away from, so we looked at a lot of homes.

I will say i'm glad we're happy with where we are at the moment. I would HATE it if I had to buy a new house with the rates, and the sellers market we have.

Branden

Appreciate the comment.

mosin46 · Jun 23, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
For the sake of my own sanity- I have to ask the question- has this ever been "fun" for folks that went through this the 1st time? My bride and I continue to look at houses and as an example- last weekend, 3 of the 4 we had scheduled... the previous Thursday if I remember correctly got canceled because they went under contract (sight unseen/no contingencies) before we could even view them. Previously we've looked at houses and offers were already in by the time we looked at the next house on the same day. It's maddening (although they seem to go for asking price and the 'bidding wars' have died down).

I've got a level head on my shoulders but gosh dang if this isn't frustrating and it's taking a lot out of me. I love my wife but I'm letting the frustration bleed through in the process as well admittedly. I'm stressed out about the initial cost, the lot/drainage of the lot, foundation issues, roof/appliance conditions, utilities, taxes etc- and while we're touring houses and I'm looking to do a deep dive into these concerns my cohort is making comments about colors, cabinets, pantries, closet space, windows, etc. I knew what I was marrying into and it wouldn't be fair to place the blame on my wife, I know it's just a super frustrating process (for me at least) and I have no complaints about our real estate agent but dang, if this whole process isn't a giant "bag of dicks" but my question is- was it always this way or am I "chasing skirts" for home ownership? Has anyone else experienced the same "conflict of concerns/importance" with their spouse? Have you ever toured a house and understood the "cost of ownership" but worried about the Diderot Effect?

-LD

worse than buying a car. buying mine was hideous and maintaining it is the same. if i weren't so anti social rent,would be tempting. today that is more expensive than home ownership and maintenance if one already owns. if i wasn't here 25+ years,i would be living under the bridge. have no idea how young people manage. to live where my parents did til '99, you would need a 1 mil minimum buy and prob 3K+ a month. don't know about buying a boat. bet that sucks too.

Glowworm · Jun 23, 2024

Moving out of IL in a month. It's been a long, tedious but not too painful process. Ran into the issue with places going contingent before we could make an offer. You can't let that drag you down. Just keep looking, more places will come on the market. Eventually the right place and timing will coincide.

Stay focused on the aspects that are impossible or difficult to change:

- Location
- lot size/acreage
- Taxes
- Square footage
- # bedrooms, bathrooms
- Schools
- Outbuildings
- Does it fit your lifestyle?
- Utilities: well, septic, city water and sewers

The other stuff, paint color, carpets, cabinets you can live with and change later. If the roof is in poor condition or appliances are dated, ask for a credit after the inspection. From what you said though, that may not be an option.

Best of luck to you!

mi650 · Jun 24, 2024

hafejd30 said:
What part of northern MI? I’m a Yooper

The farthest north I went was Alpena. I thought long and hard about da U.P. eh, could have gotten a lot more for my money. But in the end, I wanted a place I could go to more often.

Looked around Houghton Lake quite a bit, too many people. I'd been hunting on my uncles land in Gladwin county for 4 or 5 years, ended up buying my property 3 miles from his.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

If the hide/homeowners wouldn't mind, I'd like to run a few of the "options" we spec'd the other week and am still waiting for a quote on, I believe the below list is a good synopsis of some of the more 'outlandish' requests we asked for in the quote in a new build. Call me a fool if it's warranted, it'll only lead to a better outcome for us in the end with constructive criticism.

-I asked to be quoted for a steel/metal "class 4" roof (reasoning being that it'll last at least twice as long, likely provide an insurance discount, and reduce AC costs)
-I asked for a whole house fan- I grew up with these in my parents' house and apparently like metal roofs, that's not done with new builds these days
-I asked for one or two drains to be placed in the garage, also apparently an odd request
-I asked to quote me on a whole house/natural gas fed generator to be included seeing that they already have to run the lines/electrical box/ etc
-I asked for dual zone HVAC to be set up for a new build- can be done but not standard practice apparently
-I asked to insulate interior walls (as well as what type of insulation would be used) for the bedrooms & study
-I asked for the deck to be made out of composite materials (same reason as the metal roof), and that a rail be included on the front deck because frankly I'm clumsy and I believe is a valid safety feature.
-Opting for a NG water tank of 40g rather than an electric water heater of 60g (NG is far cheaper than electric here)

I've got pages of other 'upgrades' but those were the ones that seem to be the most unusual requests for the builder. Am I off the mark for asking for any of those in a new build or anything I missed if I've been on the 'mark' thus far?

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Glowworm said:
Moving out of IL in a month. It's been a long, tedious but not too painful process. Ran into the issue with places going contingent before we could make an offer. You can't let that drag you down. Just keep looking, more places will come on the market. Eventually the right place and timing will coincide.

Stay focused on the aspects that are impossible or difficult to change:

- Location
- lot size/acreage
- Taxes
- Square footage
- # bedrooms, bathrooms
- Schools
- Outbuildings
- Does it fit your lifestyle?
- Utilities: well, septic, city water and sewers

The other stuff, paint color, carpets, cabinets you can live with and change later. If the roof is in poor condition or appliances are dated, ask for a credit after the inspection. From what you said though, that may not be an option.

Best of luck to you!

Good advice. I really appreciate it.

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Just adding for some levity (still appreciate everyone's suggestions)

AmmoFort · Jun 24, 2024

It ain't ll that fun, and right now is a shitty time to buy to boot. Tell you what I'd do, I'd find a distressed property with a house on it that needs everything in the world. If you don't have an RV beg, borrow, or steal one. Go park it at your new place and get to working on that sweat equity. Or be your own general contractor and coordinate hiring it all out.

I know it's been worse than this in the past, but these interest rates and what they do to payments will mentally fuck you up...

UKDslayer · Jun 24, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
For the sake of my own sanity- I have to ask the question- has this ever been "fun" for folks that went through this the 1st time? My bride and I continue to look at houses and as an example- last weekend, 3 of the 4 we had scheduled... the previous Thursday if I remember correctly got canceled because they went under contract (sight unseen/no contingencies) before we could even view them. Previously we've looked at houses and offers were already in by the time we looked at the next house on the same day. It's maddening (although they seem to go for asking price and the 'bidding wars' have died down).

I've got a level head on my shoulders but gosh dang if this isn't frustrating and it's taking a lot out of me. I love my wife but I'm letting the frustration bleed through in the process as well admittedly. I'm stressed out about the initial cost, the lot/drainage of the lot, foundation issues, roof/appliance conditions, utilities, taxes etc- and while we're touring houses and I'm looking to do a deep dive into these concerns my cohort is making comments about colors, cabinets, pantries, closet space, windows, etc. I knew what I was marrying into and it wouldn't be fair to place the blame on my wife, I know it's just a super frustrating process (for me at least) and I have no complaints about our real estate agent but dang, if this whole process isn't a giant "bag of dicks" but my question is- was it always this way or am I "chasing skirts" for home ownership? Has anyone else experienced the same "conflict of concerns/importance" with their spouse? Have you ever toured a house and understood the "cost of ownership" but worried about the Diderot Effect?

-LD

I'm sorry you are going through it. That's an intended consequence of the new America. The old American dream is gone - I'm having rouble with it too.

In the past, with the right circumstances/financial stability and right economy, buying a first home could be a blast (they used to have these things called "open houses" on the weekends); but those things can change these days in an instant, both unpredictably and unjustly. This housing shortage is no joke, everything seems insanely over-priced and beyond stated "housing inflation"; and the quality of any new or recent construction is severely lacking. Heck even renting a small house or apartment that will accommodate large fur-family is increasingly difficult. I honestly think the new racism/selective discrimination is playing a role too that no one is talking about- a secret handshake kind of thing.

Heck, it can be hard to find a hotel room in a pinch or if there is weather situation. It wasn't that long ago when Hurricane Harvey was about to hit and Trump pre-arranged for FEMA to buyout tons of hotel rooms to provide anybody who had to find temporary placement north because of that storm vouchers for the hotel & meals for a few days. By contrast, when those big storms/tornado hit a couple trailer parks and killed six here in TX recently, they had serious trouble with finding hotels for that displacement which was magnitudes smaller than Hurricane Harvey. Can't imagine another major storm displacement now.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

AmmoFort said:
It ain't ll that fun, and right now is a shitty time to buy to boot. Tell you what I'd do, I'd find a distressed property with a house on it that needs everything in the world. If you don't have an RV beg, borrow, or steal one. Go park it at your new place and get to working on that sweat equity. Or be your own general contractor and coordinate hiring it all out.

I know it's been worse than this in the past, but these interest rates and what they do to payments will mentally fuck you up...

Your advice is solid sir- but those type of properties that you mention are (at least in my neck of the woods) few and far between. Anything under $350K (I'm estimating here admittedly) are sold with all cash offers before they ever see the light of officially going on market. I know that real estate is local, and not trying to be dismissive, only trying to share what I'm seeing on my end.

The few distressed properties that I do see come to market- well they're frankly god awful and will take a small fortune of capital to get them to the same condition that other properties are listed at..and that's bizarre to me as well.

Again, appreciate your comment and not trying to be dismissive but just wanted to provide you with a thought out response is all.

-LD

moaorbust · Jun 24, 2024

You can always ask but most builders stick to a pre-approved and county permitted plan. That plan includes just the regulated minimums which includes 4 walls, an insulated roof, electrical outlets at a specific spacing, water pipes to bathroom and kitchen, etc. Most of those items you listed fall under what I would consider “home improvement” as they exceed the minimums. I generally have two lists, the “home inspection report” for things broke prior to sale that I get the joy of fixing, and my own “fit for service” list which meets my individual requirements.

Unless you are doing a DIY build you will have to plan for a long list of post purchase work.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

UKDslayer said:
I'm sorry you are going through it. That's an intended consequence of the new America. The old American dream is gone - I'm having rouble with it too.

In the past, with the right circumstances/financial stability and right economy, buying a first home could be a blast (they used to have these things called "open houses" on the weekends); but those things can change these days in an instant, both unpredictably and unjustly. This housing shortage is no joke, everything seems insanely over-priced and beyond stated "housing inflation"; and the quality of any new or recent construction is severely lacking. Heck even renting a small house or apartment that will accommodate large fur-family is increasingly difficult. I honestly think the new racism/selective discrimination is playing a role too that no one is talking about- a secret handshake kind of thing.

Heck, it can be hard to find a hotel room in a pinch or if there is weather situation. It wasn't that long ago when Hurricane Harvey was about to hit and Trump pre-arranged for FEMA to buyout so many hotel rooms to provide anybody who had to find temporary placement north because of that storm vouchers for the hotel & meals for a few days. By contrast, when those big storms/tornado hit a couple trailer parks and killed six here in TX recently, they had serious trouble with finding hotels for that displacement which was magnitudes smaller than Hurricane Harvey. Can't imagine another major storm displacement now.

Thanks for that (really),

I just can't help but feel the world has changed so rapidly lately and it's absolutely bewildering. 2020 was supposed to be MY year after I spent years of "getting my ducks in a row" and I really did meet the goal I set for myself. I knocked out 100% of the debt I had, saved for a downpayment of about 10% for a rather upscale house which was pretty danged good for a VA loan and would have gotten me all of the 'points' needed to keep it reasonable and was supposed to get married then too. And enter COVID- government mandates, housing markets shut down, etc etc (you were there), and the same house I was looking to purchase after the dust cleared, now cost double from the same builder, same lot size, same neighborhood. And it's a bitch (excuse my language).

But I'm reaching my limits of the apartment I've been living in over the past... 15 years or so. Mainly we were looking to take advantage of what we had to boost our savings but that approach has been challenging by it's own right. It used to be 'cheap' rent but the property owners have changed hands several times. Rent has doubled in a few short years (we're month-to-month and have been for years so no joy in arguing that point).

The neighborhood was never 'good' but it's gotten worse over the past decade. I'll never forget the one night I came home from work and the police had cordoned off the block because of an active shooter and I couldn't even get into my apartment because of such. I had to park a few blocks away and called my (now wife) telling her about it and she had been taking a nap the whole time completely unaware of what was going on.

I had a neighbor come in a few years ago that was concerning enough that I had to plead to family members to allow me to store my firearms at their house temporarily because after the 3rd time of seeing someone essentially comatose on our shared 'stoop' I was sincerely concerned that our APT would be broken into if for no other reason than to find firearms.

Just a few months ago- I was approached while parking my truck by a neighbor directly across the street- asking me to get involved in a custody battle and they were about to essentially kidnap one of the kids over some domestic dispute. I kept saying I didn't want to be involved in this matter, reinforced this was a terrible approach, and suggested that they work with a social worker from the County. Their response was they were on Meth... really, god's honest truth. This is a small, maybe 1200 soft townhouse they rent, the meth guy has, at least by last count that is, 8 children living there. His parents aren't much better but seem to do a good enough job of taking care of the almost dozen children.

The cops are there a bit more than monthly but for some reason, they seem to live better lives than I'm able to afford my wife. So, not trying to go "all-in" on my night's "pity party" but long story short, I've been neck deep in this area for over a decade and I need to move. Both for sanity and safety concerns and I suspect that makes me willing to pay said premium to get out of this situation.

My "good" neighbors have had the ambience come over at least 3x in as many years to Narcan the one guy's butt. He's still... doing his thing for now but I'm pretty sure they deal drugs out of that house (again living better than I have while trying to pay a price to earn my lifestyle upgrade) but here I am.

Not to be petty but my wife & I NEED. TO. MOVE.

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

moaorbust said:
You can always ask but most builders stick to a pre-approved and county permitted plan. That plan includes just the regulated minimums which includes 4 walls, an insulated roof, electrical outlets at a specific spacing, water pipes to bathroom and kitchen, etc. Most of those items you listed fall under what I would consider “home improvement” as they exceed the minimums. I generally have two lists, the “home inspection report” for things broke prior to sale that I get the joy of fixing, and my own “fit for service” list which meets my individual requirements.

Unless you are doing a DIY build you will have to plan for a long list of post purchase work.

I'm seeing/learning that as well (almost exactly actually) but- being nickeled and dimed for things like including the garage door opener as not being part of the standard build? Or "we only build the sump pump well in- you have to provide or pay for the pump as well"?

Again, I'm ranting any more now and throwing my own "pity party" but I can't help but call shenanigans on this practice. (Again just ranting and by no means directed to @moaorbust).

-LD

45-90 · Jun 24, 2024

Back in the day I paid 10% interest on the home loan...some went even higher before, it got turned around.
The house payments, insurance, tax
es, and repairs over the years was a boat anchor around the neck...
But I'm glad now that I treaded water for so many years...but just put a new roof on $14,000.
Then got a brand new medicine in my eye injection, to preserve what eyesight I have left in the right eye..for awhile longer.
The cost of one injection is $12,707!

I can not read the largest letters on the eye chart or even type this text, with my right eye.
My shooting eye...I need a lot of sunlight and a high power scope these days, to even shoot a respectable group.
But my left eye is good .... so I'm very thankful for that....it ain't easy, but it ain't always gonna be...
Hard times, make hard men.
It ain't nothin.

vinniedelpino · Jun 24, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
I'm seeing/learning that as well (almost exactly actually) but- being nickeled and dimed for things like including the garage door opener as not being part of the standard build? Or "we only build the sump pump well in- you have to provide or pay for the pump as well"?

Again, I'm ranting any more now and throwing my own "pity party" but I can't help but call shenanigans on this practice. (Again just ranting and by no means directed to @moaorbust).

-LD

It’s not always like that. Explicitly state what you want and make sure it’s included in the contract before you sign.

We built a one-off custom home on acreage and got exactly what we wanted. The GC ordered and installed everything. Change orders are expensive and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Budget for your own inspector and attorney to review the contract. They’ll help.

Even if you don’t touch a tool, building is definitely a hands on process and massive time sucker.

EddieNFL · Jun 24, 2024

Circa 2003/4 a bunch of rental units went up close to our neighborhood. Wife made a couple of mentions about the…”occupants” and some of the kids our youngest was friendly with. She came home one day and said, “I want to move.”

Same as you mentioned, before you could look at a house, it was under contact. After a couple of months and nothing available in the neighborhoods we were interested in, our agent called about a house not yet listed; it belonged to someone in her office. A couple was walking out when we went in and another waiting when we left. Wife fell in love and wanted it.

Made an offer the next morning. There were three other offers, one matched ours. We won out because we had approved financing beyond the price.

The last time in 2020 was a cake walk. Looked for two days and had a contract in three. Bought for 11k less than asking.

psharon78 · Jun 24, 2024

The houses in my area go fast. Usually homeowners will get offers within hours of being on the market. So if you want something, you better buy it fast. I bought my house back in 2020 before interest rates and home prices went higher than Snoop Dog and the market was the same.

impactaddict · Jun 24, 2024

10% for a rather upscale house which was pretty danged good for a VA loan

Are you still trying to purchase with a VA loan? If so, this could be part of your problem. Sellers have a bias against VA loans. The appraisal process is a nightmare. My home appraises for about $200K less than its actual market value - but I live in a very hot market in Texas. I will not knock off $200K so you can buy my house. The VA home inspection is very strict and things that a traditional mortgage company will accept (waving an inspection), will not fly with a VA loan. Seller must fix issues before close to get the loan approved for the buyer, which many will not do in this current sellers market. This also rules out the "fixer-upper" for you. The VA loan also takes about 50% longer to close vs a traditional loan - 30 days vs 45 days. Essentially, if you're a seller and you have two equal offers, the seller will go with a traditional loan over a VA loan every single time.

EddieNFL · Jun 24, 2024

impactaddict said:
Are you still trying to purchase with a VA loan? If so, this could be part of your problem. Sellers have a bias against VA loans.

I think that varies by location. We never had an issue. Previous location, you would cut out at least half your potential customers if you avoided VA.

Gunfighter14e2 · Jun 24, 2024

You are far better to bring one out of the ground and get all your wants, vs inking a compromise that may have hidden issues you don't see or know what to look for. Or your home inspector has been paid to cover up. Never use a home inspector the realtor or owner recommends. The latter happens more often than most realize. The stop is making the inspector liable for all major issues found w/in the first 18 months. That alone will weed out the bulk.

Redmanss · Jun 24, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
Appreciate you weighing in- I'm going crazy.

I thought I could escape this nonsense by looking to do a new build and "EVERYTHING" is an upgrade. Basic stuff too like-

-Oh, you want a garage door opener, well the build price only includes the garage door, the opener is another expense
-Oh you want a sump pump- well we only provide the well, you have to pay for the actual pump
-Oh, you want a radon system, well we only provide the pipes, either you pay extra to complete the system or you do that on your own afterwards (including the fan and drilling out of the house itself)
-Oh, you don't think there's enough outlets, we can add those... for $80 per outlet (despite them running along the same wall)
-Oh, you want to add insulation to interior walls- we can do that at a flat cost of several hundred dollars per room (like they're saving us money by that approach) when I point out the exterior walls SHOULD already be insulated and the 'flat cost' only amounts to ONE wall in a particular room and maybe a 6" section on the hallway- I get "well that's how it is".

Oy, I'm admittedly beyond frustrated and already ranting. Thanks again for chiming in- I might take you up on your offer to send a PM to vent/rant some more. Thanks for listening to me at least. I just thought this was 'supposed' to be fun after a decade of preparing to get us to this point but this has been nothing but a soul crushing experience thus far.

-LD

Holy shit your entitlement is level fucking retard.

A builder builds to code, beyond that costs money. Design changes are expensive and require a lot of time for calculations and drawings by people who are paid a lot of money because they have an engineering degree, then the additional material and high labor costs for the installation on top of that, plus a little bit for some profit.

No, interior walls don’t get insulated and it is very uncommon to have that requested. It’s not as simple as adding a bit more when insulating the exterior, because everything is done at different stages in a build so that’s a wrench in the works. Drain in the garage? For what, so when your water pump takes a shit the glycol goes straight to the water treatment facility? That has to be the dumbest add-on ever and you’re damn right that is going to be very expensive, pipes don’t go into a concrete pad cheap.

Don’t like it, then GC the build yourself and see how that comes out.

As for home shopping, you don’t get to kick tires and nitpick in a sellers market. There’s no inventory in most markets nationwide, so you better be aggressive or get out of the market. You’ve picked the worst time in decades to be home shopping, deal with it or find another rental if you don’t like the one you’re in now. That’s facts and you don’t get an exception to them, no matter how much you feel entitled to one.

Gunfighter14e2 · Jun 24, 2024

Just remember to "Code" means it was built/installed to minimum standards. Some interior walls are in fact insulated, or modded for noise, though you don't see that much in spec or cookie cutter homes.

Baron23 · Jun 24, 2024

In a word.....NO.

Fig · Jun 24, 2024

There are some aggressive tactics in this book that are counterproductive unless you are dealing with idiots, but there are also a bunch of maxims that are words to live by.

“I never get too attached to one deal or one approach…"
“Sometimes your best investments are the ones you don’t make. ”

ALWAYS be prepared to walk away. If you are not completely prepared to walk away you are starting from weakness that you can't ever recover from. There will be a new house on the market tomorrow, or the next day, or the next. The absolute key is patience. It took me eight months of constantly looking to find the house I'm in now. Always play to value rather than to location or other trophy attributes. For any real estate deal to be a good one you have to buy it right. That doesn't mean you have to steal it, but never pay over what the current market is for that product no matter how much you want it.

You are absolutely on the right track to care about the bones and systems. Everything else can be easily remodeled, but changing the structure, foundation, roof, and major systems costs big money, and doesn't add any value at all, because they're expected to be in good condition. Typically the women are looking at purely aesthetics. Those things have an outsized impact on price, and that is exactly what you have to look past. Buying based on kitchens and bathrooms is retarded. Those have an almost 1-1 return on investment. There is no reason not to make them very nice, but it's in things like the furnace and roof where you can actually pay less for more value and be ahead at the closing.

You seem to have the right attitude, but you need to marry that to patience, and council your wife to do the same. If you do that and end up with a house that you both love you will look back at all the ones you missed and feel like everything worked out right and it was meant to be. Don't let your own frustration with not finding what you're looking for turn into your worst enemy, because it will. That attitude of being willing to walk away at any time is the key.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Redmanss said:
Holy shit your entitlement is level fucking retard.

A builder builds to code, beyond that costs money. Design changes are expensive and require a lot of time for calculations and drawings by people who are paid a lot of money because they have an engineering degree, then the additional material and high labor costs for the installation on top of that, plus a little bit for some profit.

No, interior walls don’t get insulated and it is very uncommon to have that requested. It’s not as simple as adding a bit more when insulating the exterior, because everything is done at different stages in a build so that’s a wrench in the works. Drain in the garage? For what, so when your water pump takes a shit the glycol goes straight to the water treatment facility? That has to be the dumbest add-on ever and you’re damn right that is going to be very expensive, pipes don’t go into a concrete pad cheap.

Don’t like it, then GC the build yourself and see how that comes out.

As for home shopping, you don’t get to kick tires and nitpick in a sellers market. There’s no inventory in most markets nationwide, so you better be aggressive or get out of the market. You’ve picked the worst time in decades to be home shopping, deal with it or find another rental if you don’t like the one you’re in now. That’s facts and you don’t get an exception to them, no matter how much you feel entitled to one.

Well you're quite the ray of sunshine this morning. Perhaps we'll need to agree to disagree (and that's ok) but I fail to see how an option offered by the builder (which I would be paying for mind you) equates to being retarded level entitled? I suspect you wouldn't respond any more favorably should someone call you out for having any other number of 'things' which you paid for either. Am I right?

Interior walls- my reasoning is that for places such as a home office or bedrooms, the extra insulation may help with sound dampening. If that's not an accurate guess, then ok- let me know why that wouldn't help.

Why a drain in the garage? That's actually pretty common in my neck of the woods, we get snow, snow melts and a drain in the garage gives the water a place to go outside of the garage. It's also kinda handy if processing deer but that's a side note. Actually wouldn't be that difficult, uncommon or expensive to spec a new build with that feature since it'll be done before the concrete pad is ever poured.

I don't think I ever once mentioned 'kicking tires' either. Every house I've looked at I have the capability and intention of possibly purchasing it, my rant was that if I have a showing of 5 houses scheduled for say Wednesday, and by the time I'm looking at the 3rd house, the 1st house we looked at already went under contract when would I have had the time to waste anyone's time?

As I started- we might just have to agree to disagree and that's not a bad thing. Go ahead and get yourself some breakfast because you aren't yourself when you're hungry.

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

psharon78 said:
The houses in my area go fast. Usually homeowners will get offers within hours of being on the market. So if you want something, you better buy it fast. I bought my house back in 2020 before interest rates and home prices went higher than Snoop Dog and the market was the same.

You're not wrong there but (as a me thing) I'm not wired to be cavalier with committing to large financial responsibilities. As you mentioned- it doesn't exactly work in my favor in this market, I was hoping that building might take that 'urgency' out of the process but it seems it's just exchanging one stressor for another. Appreciate you weighing in though for what it's worth.

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

impactaddict said:
Are you still trying to purchase with a VA loan? If so, this could be part of your problem. Sellers have a bias against VA loans. The appraisal process is a nightmare. My home appraises for about $200K less than its actual market value - but I live in a very hot market in Texas. I will not knock off $200K so you can buy my house. The VA home inspection is very strict and things that a traditional mortgage company will accept (waving an inspection), will not fly with a VA loan. Seller must fix issues before close to get the loan approved for the buyer, which many will not do in this current sellers market. This also rules out the "fixer-upper" for you. The VA loan also takes about 50% longer to close vs a traditional loan - 30 days vs 45 days. Essentially, if you're a seller and you have two equal offers, the seller will go with a traditional loan over a VA loan every single time.

I am but you're correct that there is a bias against VA loans while shopping. I hear your point about not knocking $200k off your selling price and agree you'd be crazy to accept it. The VA loans don't seem to be as much of an issue here but your point is well taken about it taking longer to close. The issues I'm running into don't seem to be due to the financing side as much as the houses just go so quickly that when we draft an offer, the form isn't even filled out before it's under contract. Good feedback though and I appreciate it.

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Gunfighter14e2 said:
You are far better to bring one out of the ground and get all your wants, vs inking a compromise that may have hidden issues you don't see or know what to look for. Or your home inspector has been paid to cover up. Never use a home inspector the realtor or owner recommends. The latter happens more often than most realize. The stop is making the inspector liable for all major issues found w/in the first 18 months. That alone will weed out the bulk.

That's precisely how I'm leaning as well. I had posted earlier some of the 'upgrades' we spec'd the other week that we're still waiting to get a quote on. Don't suppose you'd have any experience/insight on whether you thought they were worthwhile or any other suggestions?

-LD

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Fig said:
There are some aggressive tactics in this book that are counterproductive unless you are dealing with idiots, but there are also a bunch of maxims that are words to live by.
View attachment 8445441
“I never get too attached to one deal or one approach…"
“Sometimes your best investments are the ones you don’t make. ”

ALWAYS be prepared to walk away. If you are not completely prepared to walk away you are starting from weakness that you can't ever recover from. There will be a new house on the market tomorrow, or the next day, or the next. The absolute key is patience. It took me eight months of constantly looking to find the house I'm in now. Always play to value rather than to location or other trophy attributes. For any real estate deal to be a good one you have to buy it right. That doesn't mean you have to steal it, but never pay over what the current market is for that product no matter how much you want it.

You are absolutely on the right track to care about the bones and systems. Everything else can be easily remodeled, but changing the structure, foundation, roof, and major systems costs big money, and doesn't add any value at all, because they're expected to be in good condition. Typically the women are looking at purely aesthetics. Those things have an outsized impact on price, and that is exactly what you have to look past. Buying based on kitchens and bathrooms is retarded. Those have an almost 1-1 return on investment. There is no reason not to make them very nice, but it's in things like the furnace and roof where you can actually pay less for more value and be ahead at the closing.

You seem to have the right attitude, but you need to marry that to patience, and council your wife to do the same. If you do that and end up with a house that you both love you will look back at all the ones you missed and feel like everything worked out right and it was meant to be. Don't let your own frustration with not finding what you're looking for turn into your worst enemy, because it will. That attitude of being willing to walk away at any time is the key.

Fantastic response (truly). I really appreciate you taking the time to share that with me/us. Patience has always been a virtue (and one that I have to work on personally) but it does seem to be the best COA.

-LD

Baron23 · Jun 24, 2024

Baron23 said:
In a word.....NO.

Even worse is sitting down at the settlement table and paying fortune for....what was that again? I'm 71 and have had bought various homes over the years and still get steam coming out of my ears at settlement costs. What a fucking rip off.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Baron23 said:
Even worse is sitting down at the settlement table and paying fortune for....what was that again? I'm 71 and have had bought various homes over the years and still get steam coming out of my ears at settlement costs. What a fucking rip off.

I'll pull on that thread since you mentioned it- doesn't it seem that everyone has their hands out to collect their tributes? And why is it based off the sale price of the property? Does the title insurance company work any harder to do their job for a $150K house compared to a $400K house? It's fucking ridiculous and frankly I don't see how this doesn't impose a conflict of interest when local governments involved get their piece of the pie as a percentage.

-LD

Milf Dots · Jun 24, 2024

My buddy Mike literally shit his pants when he, his wife, and the realtor went to look at what was to be their first home... Luckily it was a split level and they were on the first floor... He ran upstairs on his own to find the bathroom and he devastated it... Then realized there was no toilet paper... He used his underwear to wipe his ass and threw it out the window into the back yard... He said when they all got back in the realtor's car, after a few seconds the realtor said "it's such a nice day we should let the fresh air into the car" while she opened all the windows.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

Milf Dots said:
My buddy Mike literally shit his pants when he, his wife, and the realtor went to look at what was to be their first home... Luckily it was a split level and they were on the first floor... He ran upstairs on his own to find the bathroom and he devastated it... Then realized there was no toilet paper... He used his underwear to wipe his ass and threw it out the window into the back yard... He said when they all got back in the realtor's car, after a few seconds the realtor said "it's such a nice day we should let the fresh air into the car" while she opened all the windows.

I'm not going to lie- that gave me a good laugh. I'm picturing the scene from dumb and dumber movie and that's just hilarious. I can only imagine the look on the next people that toured the house with shit covered drawers in the yard. God that's funny.

AmmoFort · Jun 24, 2024

Random thoughts and questions.

Someone said patience up thread. Exactly you've waited this long...

Moving into a rental in a better area could definitely buy you some time.

Find a new builder to work with that will get you what you want.

Are you absolutely tied to the State, County, City, current job/s? Making a big change is hard, but it could be really rewarding. Would take a bunch of research and no small amount of luck, but sounds like you live in a shit area and have for a long time. Obviously we've all got our reasons for why we are where we are.

SupressYourself · Jun 24, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
If the hide/homeowners wouldn't mind, I'd like to run a few of the "options" we spec'd the other week and am still waiting for a quote on, I believe the below list is a good synopsis of some of the more 'outlandish' requests we asked for in the quote in a new build. Call me a fool if it's warranted, it'll only lead to a better outcome for us in the end with constructive criticism.

-I asked to be quoted for a steel/metal "class 4" roof (reasoning being that it'll last at least twice as long, likely provide an insurance discount, and reduce AC costs)
-I asked for a whole house fan- I grew up with these in my parents' house and apparently like metal roofs, that's not done with new builds these days
-I asked for one or two drains to be placed in the garage, also apparently an odd request
-I asked to quote me on a whole house/natural gas fed generator to be included seeing that they already have to run the lines/electrical box/ etc
-I asked for dual zone HVAC to be set up for a new build- can be done but not standard practice apparently
-I asked to insulate interior walls (as well as what type of insulation would be used) for the bedrooms & study
-I asked for the deck to be made out of composite materials (same reason as the metal roof), and that a rail be included on the front deck because frankly I'm clumsy and I believe is a valid safety feature.
-Opting for a NG water tank of 40g rather than an electric water heater of 60g (NG is far cheaper than electric here)

I've got pages of other 'upgrades' but those were the ones that seem to be the most unusual requests for the builder. Am I off the mark for asking for any of those in a new build or anything I missed if I've been on the 'mark' thus far?

-LD

Well, contrary to 'captain stick up his ass', I very much recommend insulating interior walls. It cuts down on noise a lot. I insulated between my two levels as well. If you have, or will have kids, you will appreciate it. And it's not hard to do. A buddy was building a new house and I recommended it. He talked to the GC who let him know when they were about to start sheet rocking. We went in the night before and handled it ourselves. - If you can, I recommend doing it that way. Your only added cost is the insulation, and possibly some beer for your helpers.

Also, you are correct about the floor drain in the garage. In snowy places, it's a really nice feature. Just make sure the garage floor is also spec'ed to slope to the drain.

And NG water heaters are superior to electric in most ways. They're cheaper to run and recover much quicker.

Gunfighter14e2 · Jun 24, 2024

LuckyDuck said:
That's precisely how I'm leaning as well. I had posted earlier some of the 'upgrades' we spec'd the other week that we're still waiting to get a quote on. Don't suppose you'd have any experience/insight on whether you thought they were worthwhile or any other suggestions?

-LD

It matters little what I think, you are the one paying the freight, get what you want. Not what others think you should settle for or how they want things laid out. Building to code is total B/S to me as that is there to just protect the stupid. Build it code Plus at the minimum, or code ++ like my last one. You will never regret it. Cheaper to do right up front, than try to fix/improve it on the back side.

LuckyDuck · Jun 24, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Well, contrary to 'captain stick up his ass', I very much recommend insulating interior walls. It cuts down on noise a lot. I insulated between my two levels as well. If you have, or will have kids, you will appreciate it. And it's not hard to do. A buddy was building a new house and I recommended it. He talked to the GC who let him know when they were about to start sheet rocking. We went in the night before and handled it ourselves. - If you can, I recommend doing it that way. Your only added cost is the insulation, and possibly some beer for your helpers.

Also, you are correct about the floor drain in the garage. In snowy places, it's a really nice feature. Just make sure the garage floor is also spec'ed to slope to the drain.

And NG water heaters are superior to electric in most ways. They're cheaper to run and recover much quicker.

Hah don't worry about him, I noticed the below image on his account earlier this morning anyway, I'm sure he just needed a Snickers. But hey- really appreciate the feedback man, that's exactly what I was thinking as well primarily for the dampening sound benefits between choice rooms (Bedrooms/offices/ etc.) rather than for extra insulation from the HVAC perspective. That's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to receive and I thank you for that. And yes, excellent point about the drain requiring the garage floor being sloped appropriately so that it actually feeds into the drain. I'm not sure where that fella was coming from on these topics earlier but oh well.

That was my thought too regarding the NG water heater, where I live in the state, electric rates are among the highest and NG (at least as of today and that's all I can work off of is today's information with a bit of forecasting) is the cheapest which is where that request came from.

We shall see what comes back and thank you again but as promised, without further adu the tag I noticed on Mr. Grumpy's profile was...

SupressYourself · Jun 24, 2024

You might want to look into acoustic options for interior insulation rather than standard fiberglass. When we did my buddies house, we used some sort of recycled cotton stuff. It doesn't insulate from heat and cold as well, but that's a non-issue on interior walls. Not sure what the price difference is, but it's a lot nicer to work with. I hate fiberglass insulation...

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