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What is the ideal SHTF optic?
- Thread starter blue_ridge
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So is a lot of other shit, particularly philosophy. Doesn’t mean that some of the information used in said mental masturbation will be useless to everyone.
Don’t shit up a thread if you’re just here to get ass blasted about other folks having opinions?
That makes more sense. I was wondering in what universe SF guys were getting their ideas from Captain Price and not the other way around.
Gamers as in competition guys. Got it.
Who actually thinks about this THAT hard? I mean seriously.......go enjoy what is left of your life.
Autists...people who never served.....guys with pet reptiles....people who drink Pepsi instead of coke.
old fudd here ,i drink cherry pepsiHey wait a minute….
I drink Coke
Richard
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What the fuck is wrong with reptiles? My snake loves errone
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I knew there was something about you, just couldn’t put my fanger on it till nowHey wait a minute….
I drink Coke
Richard
I mix Dr Pepper and Pepsi 50/50 and call it Dr Pepsi.
It’s almost as good as mixing moa and mil
I can point to countless examples.
Surefire warcomp...a comp on a mil gun? Wonder where/why that came about?
Vortex and Kahles LPVO's on team guns...wonder how that came about?
Many more, but those are just the two most glaring I can think of before bed.
Yeah. I grew up near Princeton,LA. I got to watch Jerry, Jim, etc in the late 90s, early 2000s. Got a revolver Jim touched up, and a rifle he test fired for me. I got to watch all those super nifty but too fragile for combat concepts become mature military program items decade+ later into GWOT. Back when I started training with Craig Douglas and Chili and Kyle Lamb and others, maybe 1 LPVO would show up to class. Now? We got even the marines issuing them.
The cutting edge of alot of gear is in the gamer world. Its where new ideas get fleshed out, and those that work get adopted.
The game changer was not made for a SOCOM unit, even though the owner was a Ranger. Now regular army units are buying them as COTS to take overseas on deployments.
Its been well known that the SMU's bring in the best of everything from lock pickers to pistol shooters to long range shooters to drivers to teach them and make them more effective. Top competitive shooters give them an edge and teach them things they don't know. Many of them have talked about bringing in guys like Jerry, Rob and many others to teach them to shoot faster and refine their techniques. There are long range competitors on this site who do it as well. Its not a secret.
The military is slow as hell to adopt change. And when its not, it does something stupid to loose all the institutional knowledge that is going to have to be learned again in the future via blood (think Marine Scout Snipers).
Its easy to think the mil is best until you go to your first match as a seasoned sniper section leader and you get your shit pushed in by 300lb bob the plumber or accountant.
The game changer was not made for a SOCOM unit, even though the owner was a Ranger. Now regular army units are buying them as COTS to take overseas on deployments.
Its been well known that the SMU's bring in the best of everything from lock pickers to pistol shooters to long range shooters to drivers to teach them and make them more effective. Top competitive shooters give them an edge and teach them things they don't know. Many of them have talked about bringing in guys like Jerry, Rob and many others to teach them to shoot faster and refine their techniques. There are long range competitors on this site who do it as well. Its not a secret.
The military is slow as hell to adopt change. And when its not, it does something stupid to loose all the institutional knowledge that is going to have to be learned again in the future via blood (think Marine Scout Snipers).
Its easy to think the mil is best until you go to your first match as a seasoned sniper section leader and you get your shit pushed in by 300lb bob the plumber or accountant.
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I had an Sig Tango 6T and an SMRS 2 Pro that did well.
The Elcan Specter doesn’t really fall into the LPVO definition I don’t believe, but the 1/4 on my Scar 16 does decent as well.
Generally SFPs…as I’m pretty sure this has probably been covered or at least alluded to in your other threads or any of the other 5,856 “what’s the best lpvo” threads
I submit that is more a function of reticle design and position.
I bought my Meopta R1 1-4x22 SFP with #4 reticle precisely because I wanted a reticle that was visible in low light that did not require a battery.
True, I cannot do windage holds in this reticle, but the rifle it is mounted on isn’t intended for such use.
My friend’s Leupold MK4 SFP 2.5-10x42 with illuminated TMR seems like a good choice as well and you can hold for windage on 10x.
-Stan
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[1]northern rich people that re-tire in the south and keep those states financially sound spending their billions . [2] A great baseball team from the north . I am # 1 group .
that's what i say when boone leaves the pitcher in too long
It will change the game until the batteries die then iron sights become the fad again .
Agreed, but it’s a specialty item that doesn’t need to be on all the time.
Trijicon will give you about 15 years to figure that out until you have to stay in the daylight to make it work...
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1-8 VCOG for LPVO
4-16 ATACR for SPR
7-35 ATACR for Long range rifle
T2 for carbine
4-16 ATACR for SPR
7-35 ATACR for Long range rifle
T2 for carbine
Interesting!
I´m living in a rural area, where the shops only have limited elections of scope (and everything else).
That makes it very hard for me to get first-hand experiences and so I´m restricted on youtube (good stuff there) and forums (very different).
And although I´m cruising around this topic (a one-do-it-all-optic for my 18" AR "light") since almost two weeks (because 2k+ is a lot money for me, and I´m thorne between going LPVO or SPR w piggyback dot) I´ve never heard or read about the VCOG at LPVOs anywhere.
Kahles, Vortex, S&B, etc., but there was never VCOG in those comparisons.
And for the ATACR, which is undoubtetly a great scope, don´t you think that 4x on the low end is a bit high for an SPR?
I´m looking out for the VCOG now.
Have a look at the VCOG's cousin, the Accupoint. Limited to a 1-4 or 1-6 LPVO but with tritium/fiber optic illumination.
Been happy with the 1-4 and 2.5-10 with the green illumination option.
Been happy with the 1-4 and 2.5-10 with the green illumination option.
Just wondering what are all the choices being recommend, based upon? Past events you have been involved in, heard about, talked to someone who lived thru a shft or what?
Optics I've used, evals I'm aware of, friends in the industry, friends who have uses them.
When you talk about SHTF, I think of my brother who stepped on a "Bouncing Betty" that turned out to be a dud but still blew off half his kneecap. He got the Silver Star for running around after that to grab folks who were worse off than he was while he's shooting back at the same time dropping some folks who were shooting at him.
I listen first to the WarVets in my family many of whom came back w/holes in 'em/bodyparts missing, but came home after coming up against folks who were shooting back so when they start talking about rifles, I'll stop talking and listen, I don't have to wonder if they know what they're talking about, because they're here to talk about it and the folks they came up against ain't.
The first thing out of their mouths, is "I don't know", if they don't know something.
There is "luck", because by all rights my brother shouldn't be here. After he came back, he got a lot of religion.
As to the specifics of the weapons and sights there are folks on here that are very knowledgeable.
I listen first to the WarVets in my family many of whom came back w/holes in 'em/bodyparts missing, but came home after coming up against folks who were shooting back so when they start talking about rifles, I'll stop talking and listen, I don't have to wonder if they know what they're talking about, because they're here to talk about it and the folks they came up against ain't.
The first thing out of their mouths, is "I don't know", if they don't know something.
There is "luck", because by all rights my brother shouldn't be here. After he came back, he got a lot of religion.
As to the specifics of the weapons and sights there are folks on here that are very knowledgeable.
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SHTF discussions usually means civilization has ended as in no utilities no civil authority whatsoever . You are on your own against xxx enemies from a plague to aliens . The 700.00 weapon with 2 k worth of likum stikum electronic crap will die and you are left with the MARK 1 eye ball , iron sights ,a man bun and your man purse filled with dead batteries ...watcha gonna do .
I like my aimpoint with the KAC battery compartment for a spare.
That's like 6yrs of red dot.
Have solid folding irons as well.
Handgun is #1
Then the 11.5" with the Aimpoint.
The trijicon lpvo with fiber would be good too.
Some yahoo with thermal/night vision will rob/kill us all in the dark anyhow
That's like 6yrs of red dot.
Have solid folding irons as well.
Handgun is #1
Then the 11.5" with the Aimpoint.
The trijicon lpvo with fiber would be good too.
Some yahoo with thermal/night vision will rob/kill us all in the dark anyhow
lack of food ,water ,health care and shelter will do most of us in before the zombies eat us
I used to assume those of us who could camp/backpack had the gear/ tools to survive in the wilderness, even if many others had the same idea, could do so.
But, the ability to move and see at night will push people to be bandits and they'll have the ability to take whatever they want in the wilderness at night.
Even Red Dawn fantasy land isn't safe anymore
I had three guys in my Air Guard unit with Silver Stars. One of them had two Silver Stars. TACP guys.
I asked them to speak on their kit in the fight(s) where the Silver Star originated, and then built out my gear in a similar fashion.
Most had Aimpoints or LPVOs, all had green lasers for close combat. Everyone of them went home and put green lasers on their personal weapons.
Never been in a real SHTF scenario, like end of civilization or the breakup of Yugoslavia. SHTF and ground combat seem to be the same thing to me. I settled on an LPVO and green laser, and a shit ton of extra batteries in the grip or the stock for backup.
In the after fight, I think ammo and loaded mags will be readily available to pickup for a while, as the good guys and bad guys are using 22lr/5.56/308/762x39/9mm/12 gauge. But I'm harvesting/scrounging up batteries as well.
I asked them to speak on their kit in the fight(s) where the Silver Star originated, and then built out my gear in a similar fashion.
Most had Aimpoints or LPVOs, all had green lasers for close combat. Everyone of them went home and put green lasers on their personal weapons.
Never been in a real SHTF scenario, like end of civilization or the breakup of Yugoslavia. SHTF and ground combat seem to be the same thing to me. I settled on an LPVO and green laser, and a shit ton of extra batteries in the grip or the stock for backup.
In the after fight, I think ammo and loaded mags will be readily available to pickup for a while, as the good guys and bad guys are using 22lr/5.56/308/762x39/9mm/12 gauge. But I'm harvesting/scrounging up batteries as well.
any teenagers with good night vision who will stay awake all night while i sleep , i will relieve them from 10 am to 2 pm [ i am old and need my naps ]
For the scenario the OP lays out, I second the motion that an ACOG with Piggyback RDS IS the ideal optic setup. It's proven, rugged, relatively light and offers redundancy.
A lightweight MPVO or fixed 10X with a combo'd RDS would be ideal, but a proper candidate does not (really) exist. There is usually at least one feature that takes it out of the running. Most often, it is the reticle, weight or lack of parallax adjustment.
The fact that experienced operators continue to run the gear they know makes perfect sense. I have to wonder what would they be running now if an NSN number for an ACOG 10x40 ECOS had been on the inventory for the past 20 years.
A lightweight MPVO or fixed 10X with a combo'd RDS would be ideal, but a proper candidate does not (really) exist. There is usually at least one feature that takes it out of the running. Most often, it is the reticle, weight or lack of parallax adjustment.
The fact that experienced operators continue to run the gear they know makes perfect sense. I have to wonder what would they be running now if an NSN number for an ACOG 10x40 ECOS had been on the inventory for the past 20 years.
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